Dros

Regarding the "betrayed" or "abandoned" semantics used for the KR: we have only seen one instance of the Recreance, which Dalinar witnessed in his vision. It's my understanding that represented only two orders. We don't know what the rest of the KR did that day. EDIT: Wanted to add that I've thought that maybe, along the lines of the above, the "betrayal" might have been the rest of the KR refusing to give up their Blades and Plate. Honor in the vision said, "this is the first of them, this was the last"...or something to that effect. Which always seemed a bit strange considering that wasn't all of the KR.

Awesome...thank you for finding that.

It just seems the Nahel Bond works a lot like the relationship between a Shard and its holder. Syl has gained more and more cognitive abilities the longer she interacted with Kaladin. So a splintered Honor would probably create things like Honorspren. However, it's my understanding that Shards can "grant" splinters to the people of a world while still whole (Preservation?) and if so, it means Honor didn't have to be splintered by Odium to create Honorspren. So, as a counterargument against my own thoughts, Honor may have been weakened by granting Honorspren splinters to the people of Roshar and that's how Odium overcame him. I really thought Brandon said the splintering of Honor was not the reason for the Recreance though.

We know Honorspren were around when Nohadon was alive. Were Honorspren created after Honor was splintered or already out there?

I'm beginning to wonder that same thing. For these reasons: Honor stated in his final vision that Cultivation was (past tense) always better at seeing the future so his vision might not be as accurate. If Cultivation was still around...why wouldn't Honor just ask her what the future held and relay that to Dalinar? Plant life, etc. has retreated to the lands of the Shin and it seems to be the only place where the land can be cultivated. That, by itself, can go either way. Maybe Cultivation is alive and that's her last stronghold? But taken with everything else, at the very least it helps build the case that the influence of Cultivation, as a force, is waning. The epigraph that says: "Three of sixteen ruled, now the Broken One reigns!" Most speculate that the Broken One refers to Odium. So, this epigraph is saying two of the Shards, at least, are out of commission. And even if the Broken One refers to Cultivation...that probably means she's been splintered. Honor said in his last vision that he should have known Odium would come for him...that line has always vexed me. Perhaps, he should have known because Odium just whacked Cultivation? Shardholders buying the farm seem to be the overarching theme of the Cosmere at the moment.

Both Pennsylvania and Nigeria were colonized by England, so they both had significant influences from the same source. So if you think of the "crab" symbol that way, maybe Shivertongue and KChan have the best interpretation of how the symbols are similar but not the same. Same influence, different people with different cultural preferences putting pen to paper, so to speak.

Using the word "nearest" though has me thinking that it isn't a shardpool. Because if you wanted to be close to Honor, and knew he was a shardpool, wouldn't you ask that Urithiru be built around Honor? or, if it was underground, over Honor? or if in the sky, under Honor?, etc. etc. It makes me believe Honor didn't physically manifest at that time in the physical realm.

I remember Brandon saying it was Dalinar, as well. That would make the figure in the distance Eshonai...correct? Also, regarding the banner and the surge symbol: Brandon has done quite a bit of world building around the fact that details, names, and religions have changed over time. For example, all of the Heralds names are slightly different in Kalak's chapter than they are written now. History is muddled and details surrounding events aren't even known anymore. So it may not be too much of a stretch that whoever designed the banner had seen the crab-like surge symbol and just simply thought it looked like that creature and just ran with it. Or, over time, it changed ever so slightly, bit by bit, over the years to eventually become the "crab" drawing seen on the banner.

Definitely. I like that line of thought. I think between your theory and KChan's thoughts on it, the truth is probably not far off.

Honestly, my understanding about Hoid's question to Dalinar was that he is struggling with the very same issues you are in this topic. For your analogy: If all sixteen shards are combined does it become a stained glass masterpiece like the one before -or- would it become a hideous mass of twisted glass and intermingling colors that resembles nothing of the original window -or- could you make it into something else more to your liking, i.e. could you control what the resulting intent of the supershard you create would be?

So...there's only 15 Shards now? EDIT: And I guess that lends more to the theory that, yes, in fact you can put Andolasium back together again. But also brings Hoid's thoughts of whether putting all these Shards together would form Andolasium or something else into the discussion I imagine. DOUBLE EDIT: He may have been more scared of another Shard picking up the coginitively freed Harmony and combining all three shards.

Kaladin's a Super-sayan? Whattayaknow

Oh yeah, I was just commenting on the hair. I could have sworn he was described with black hair.

It tells me Odium isn't native to Roshar, so where was he before?

The 17th Shard apparently has a policy of non-intervention, though. I think they are more of an intelligence gathering operation more than anything. Perhaps they are trying to limit the devastating effects shards have on some worlds as well.

Maybe it's High Politics on a universal scale. BS has said he imagines the entirety of his Cosmere to be encapsulated in something the size of a small galaxy. If the range of Andolasium's influence was just Brandon's Cosmere, there might just be quite a few entities equal to or greater than Andolasium inhabiting other Cosemeres or galaxies. Perhaps Andolasium was growing powerful enough to threaten outside forces, maybe Andolasium just pissed off the wrong superbeing. OR- perhaps there is a group like the Illuminati/Ghostbloods that oppose the Shard's power and influence, not because they disagree with the system as a whole, but they think such power and influence should not be held by just one or even sixteen entities.

Could the Old Magic be one of those that was set up before the Shattering?

This pedantic fool thought the hair would be blacker on a younger dude. But that's just my foolish pendantishnessdicity.

Yeah, I think Tanavast was the only Shardholder of Honor. Random hypothesis with nothing to back it up: Perhaps Dalinar will "unite them" (the splinters) and be the next to hold Honor?

Which means the continent is spinning on an axis and what was in the West a thousand years ago, might be different than what is there now. You picking up what I'm putting down here?

I don't think I've ever heard that. What makes people think someone else held it?

Is it ever mentioned whether Gavilar uncovered or discovered anything among the Shattered Plains besides the Parshendi? EDIT: WoR Spoilers

It was my understanding that spren are splinters of Honor. I thought Brandon had said that, but obviously he said spren were around before, so...my point is moot I guess. Curses.

There weren't any spren. Or, at least, Dalinar never mentioned seeing any at the time. Surely, if Honor were dead at the time of the Recreance, the spren would have been clearly visible and agitated since they are splinters of Honor. Now, it could be Honor didn't show any spren in the vision because he didn't know that would be the result after his death. But it shouldn't have been too much of a stretch for a Shard to know the consequences of his shattering I would think.

I really think the term shardblade should be seen as the make and something like Honorblades would be seen as the model. Like--there are lots of Jeeps (shardblades), but they range from Cherokee's (Honorblades) to Liberty's (Szeth's blade) to Patriot's (Dalinar's blade), etc.