Dros
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It might be that 16 isn't really that special of a number. Maybe Andolasium shattered into a hundred Shards and the 16 we have now is a result of the Shardholders chasing the resulting unheld Shards of Andolasium to get as much power as possible. Their Intents might be more of a mesh from the mad rush to gather as many Shards as possible before the Shardic Intents constrained the Holder's actions. However, OTOH, there is nothing to support something like that except the fact that Harmony exists and we now know you can hold two Shards at once or meld the two. However, we've seen Odium splintering Shards and that hasn't resulted in more mini Shards. Only way to answer that problem would be to know if there is a different process to shatter a Shard or Splinter a Shard.
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I believe that has been discussed before, but when WOB came down that Odium was trying to kill all the rest of the Shardbearers and splinter the Shards, it kind of killed that line of thought. However, I still like the jist of the theory. It seems like a good twist to the story, in my opinion. Brandon has said there is another force out there opposing the Shards or something like that. And, really, even if Odium is trying to kill the rest of the Shards, that doesn't mean they didn't start out allied against a common foe, I guess. My thought on it was it seemed strange that Honor didn't think Odium would try to kill him...he seemed like he was kicking himself for not seeing it coming. Which is weird, if you're at war with a guy you might want to be prepared for him to come after you.
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Okay, that makes sense.
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But they can move freely about after they've entered the Cognitive Realm, though? That was the implication I was speaking of. I'm not aware of how distance and time function there, so it was just something I threw out there. But you're 2nd paragraph: So, Honor being splintered and Tanavast being killed wouldn't have the same effect in Shadesmar?
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Well, in any event, it seems to me that the Stormlight Archive is going to be a big event in the adventures of Hoid. He's never had more than a passing part in any of the rest of Brandon's Cosmere books. And, as mentioned before, I think opposition to Rayse is probably why he's showing up where he shows up.
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Not at all, Meg. Just a discussion
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For sure, he might have changed his focus since then. However, one of the things I wanted to point out was he called the Heralds "beings", not people. Interesting choice of words, I thought.
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If what the nine Heralds did meant they broke the Oathpact, does it mean they are no longer bound to the cycles of Damnation and Desolation? I'm not convinced they're native to Roshar. Their immortality might be a result of where they come from. It could be the Shard that created them decided her/his people would be immortal. I wish I could find the quotes but my recollection is Brandon has described the SA as a story primarily about ten angelic beings who have gone insane in various ways, and has mentioned that the KR are not the center of the story and he wouldn't be getting too far into them. I believe at least one of those comments comes from before he published WoK, so it's possible he has changed the focus of his story. But if that still holds it might be that the replacement of the last Heralds is the main focus the story or the Herlads coming back from the "bottom". I'll keep trying to find those quotes. EDIT: Here's one from Brandon's site...interestingly enough, he called it the Oathshards series, hmmmmm: http://brandonsanderson.com/tor-proposal-part-four/
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Yeah, I agree, there is probably some sort of gateways in SA. It made me think of something Brandon said a while ago, that people would not want to go to a certain part of Shadesmar (Sel maybe?). It seems to imply that people can access Shadesmar in some way and choose where they can go. Perhaps he is going the route that something is wrong with Shadesmar, that it used to work, but like WoT, it's tainted in some way or blocked by Odium in some way.
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I don't know, it kind of sounds like the Sunmaker went the way of the Salem Witch Trials to me. The village citizens weren't bad people, but they really believed in witches and when someone accused another, they listened to the church for guidance. The church had the people's minds and as long as they followed some sort of process, the people would believe it. People will tell you just about anything under torture to make you stop. In the immortal words of Mr.White from Reservoir Dogs: @Ethrien I agree. The DoD puts out something called the Code of Conduct. It is to be applied when you are a POW and, if you follow the Code, it will allow you to return home with honor. Implicit in the Code is an acknowledgement that you will break...the only question is how long it will take. You are required to make it take as long as possible.
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It's possible Taln doesn't know he was screwed over by the nine other Heralds either. We don't know if they had any contact in between Desolations. He seemed confused that people didn't know who he was and confused as to why they aren't preparing for the Desolation. Perhaps he thought since he is alone upon arriving, the other Heralds were already out and ahead of him in the world (I guess, technically he's right) or he maybe he thinks he's late to the party. Perhaps that's why Hoid calls him his "confused friend," i.e. Hoid is saying, "Sorry, Taln, you're the only one left and you don't even know it."
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Ah, thank you, Argent. So, they're somewhere on Roshar, perhaps in the "hands" of folks like Shallan who have tried to keep such a thing secret or just simply lost or hidden too well over the years.
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Does anyone know if a Shardblade appears when a wielder dies if their not holding it at the time? I know it stays in the physical realm if they die while holding it, but what happens when they haven't summoned it? I'm trying to remember if that's ever been mentioned, but my memory is failing me.
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According to Eshonai there are ruins of a city present on the shattered plains. BS said there was "great magic unleashed there." God knows what that could do to manmade structures in the vicinity. I'm not saying it must be the same place as the Prelude. I'm just saying it's not inconceivable. Edit: Hoser, I agree that seems a plausible scenario you describe...
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It's not beyond comprehension that people would build a city where final victory over Odium occurred (or so they thought). Surely someone built monuments to their victory somewhere...I mean, winning a single Desolation is a pretty big deal, winning the final desolation? Big time. I would think folks might have seen the Honorblades in the ground, decided they should keep them protected until the Heralds returned (not knowing they had been abandoned), built a magnificent city, waited and waited and waited until the city became a ghost of itself, was abandoned, talked about in memories, then sang about as legends, then myths and then forgotten completely. It's possible, actually quite likely, that such a city would come to ruin over a long time frame (4500 years). Not sure it was Urithiru, but it's quite possible a city would be built on the Shattered Plains due to the events that took place there and then be lost to the ravages of time.
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I wonder--does the Oathpact grant them immortality or were they that way before the Oathpact? If the reward of immortality was used, it might explain why the Heralds would sign up for such duty. I like the thought that they weren't fully aware of what the Oathpact would entail. It would almost be like the Old Magic, a boon and a curse. Congratulations, you're immortal and now have the power to battle Odium's minions! But you'll be tortured relentlessly for 9/10s of that immortal life. Have fun, kids. But, really, I think Honor would have told them about the pros and cons. If he did, I would have to agree with Gloom---I don't think the cons of the Oathpact fully presented themselves until later. It's possible it got worse and worse and worse as time went on. So for this theory to work, Honor couldn't be there. Maybe Odium did skip into town and offer immortality and some Honorblades, but for a price everyone will learn later. Still, these guys were supposed to be the best of the best, I would doubt they would accept such a thing without knowing the price. So, again, what we know about the Oathpact just doesn't make sense to me.
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Vorinism and the Decline of Historic Knowledge
Dros replied to The Rooster's topic in Stormlight Archive
Yep, that's the one that can't be reconciled with the above theory. You're right. -
Vorinism and the Decline of Historic Knowledge
Dros replied to The Rooster's topic in Stormlight Archive
That actually might add a little credence to the theory. Urithiru was abandoned before the Lost Radiants betrayed mankind, i.e. the KR left and abandoned Urithiru, while the soldiers who took the Plate and Blade began to seriously take advantage of their new found weapons with little interest in maintaining Urithiru. Difficult to reconcile that the Day of Recreance is considered the day the KR left, though. If was still considered the day they left back then, then no one would think the dudes running around in Plate and Blade were KRs. Imagine how much chaos might have been wrought by the KRs abandoning their plate and blade. We saw that the soldiers immediately began to kill each other to take ownership of the items. I imagine the victors could then carry out every whim or fancy they had ever imagined. I doubt they stayed together and I bet even if it took one month to figure out, the rumors of the evil acts of the KR would be impossible to destroy. Rumors become accepted fact, which becomes myth and legends, etc. The mob mentality would ultimately write the story of the KRs who betrayed mankind. -
Vorinism and the Decline of Historic Knowledge
Dros replied to The Rooster's topic in Stormlight Archive
That is a very interesting thought, kat. I honestly never thought of that. I'm trying to think of what I know about the timeline, but at the moment I can't think of anything that might counter that. -
I think your theory has merit. Not with use of a Shard, but Hoid is definitely doing or using something that effects time. He could travel by Shadesmar, but I'm not aware of any time distortions of such a magnitude related to travelling through there.
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Regarding the the KR's stealing stormlight from other KR's Plate in the vicinity: It's been my understanding that there is a difference between how the KRs Plate were powered and the current Plate. The difference: there are glyphs on the old Plate and they glow. Not a strong difference, I admit, but there seems to be an emphasis on the glow and glyphs. My thought was the Oaths, i.e. the power granted to the individual, coupled with whatever power writing has on things on Roshar, i.e. power invested in the Plate, powered a KRs Plate, but now, not knowing about the Oaths, "modern" Shardbearers must use gemstones to power the armor, but it won't take it near to full strength. Unsubstantiated and not provable at this point, but I think BS has been trying to show a distinct difference between what an honorable man in Plate and a self-interested man in Plate are capable of.
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Wait...what? A little sumthin' sumthin' between Shards? I didn't know that.
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Calamity is probably doing something to everyone. You may not be a Superman-type Epic, but it has granted something to everyone. Take for instance Steelheart's weakness: I don't know what Calamity is, but I wouldn't doubt it's some kind of telekinesis generator or something like that. The laws of physics do not work sometimes with Epics...seems it's only bounded by...wait for it...one's imagination. And it is kinda weird NASA never took a closer look. Would think that would high up on their list.
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Problem with that, though...Honor seemed to curse himself for not being prepared for Odium's strike. Remember, in the vision, Honor says, "Odium has killed me. I should've known he would come for me." That's a strange line for someone who has offered himself up as a sacrificial lamb of sorts. Maybe if he said, "I can't believe he came for me so early." or something like that, it would make more sense to me. To me, Honor was cursing himself for not putting the pieces together fast enough. Now, it could be he thought the Oathpact would protect him, but was disappointed in not recognizing the fact that Odium would cheat (if possible to cheat at all). I'm really having a hard time with this deal made between Shards. The Oathpact seems such a horrible deal...with all the knowledge a Shardholder has at his disposal, why would one make such a bad deal? Vexed.
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I've tried and tried and tried to figure out why Honor would agree to such a terrible agreement and to me, no matter the theory I come up with, it never makes sense. So maybe the current circumstances are not what they were when such an agreement was made--a Shard's Intent changes the holder, so it's possible Rayse wasn't after the same goals as he is now and now that Odium's Intent has fully changed him, he's trying to find a way out. It's possible the Oathpact was less an agreement between warring parties and first created for a different purpose altogether. I realize Rayse was considered ill-tempered to begin with, but that doesn't mean he was completely intent on destroying everything in the beginning. EDIT: And to add a little on that---It's hard to believe any man or woman would agree to near eternal torment, no matter what was at stake. Maybe what the Heralds experienced in between the Desolations has changed. Maybe at first Honor told them they would be in stasis or just prisoners or resigned to a place in Shadesmar, and somehow Odium changed that, or maybe he found them and without Honor's protection...all bets are off over there. Just a thought.