yankorro

If no one else is planning to submit anything, I'd like to double up and send something out, if that's all right...

not to worry, jParker, I highly doubt our respective projects will really resemble each other at all. As you've seen from the first post, mine is the tale of a half-crazy amateur cryptozoologist on a vision quest in the mountains of southern New Mexico. No cowboys or Indians and no magic to speak of, really, so if your story has stuff like that, no worries. As long as no manticore shows up in the third act, you're good! Also, I've never read King's Dark Tower stuff, I'm not sure if that's a good or a bad thing for what I'm doing. Anyway, plase post away, I for one would be really interested in seeing where you take it. As far as competition is concerned...I'm not sure I'd want to commit to anything like that until I know what the stakes are

Thanks folks, great and useful stuff so far! I appreciate it! (i still seem to have trouble with the reply function here, so I'll just address a couple of comments (more to help me sort of the answers in my head than for any other reason.) First off, second version seems to be winning out (if only 'marginally' ). There are a couple of other chapters from the old guy's viewpoint later on (beginning of 'acts ii and iii', natch), but almost entirely in Rose's (3rd pers. very-limited) viewpoint, and the 2nd version is clearer about that, I guess. Second, setting cues seem to be working, though genre-wise, I guess I'd call it a 'post-apocalyptic Weird Western' rather than steampunk(not enough water in the desert for steam...). But the idea is (as Mysty said) something more or less analogues to late 1800s-early 1900s tech levels. And yes, there will be a motherflipping manticore. Aaaand, point taken about the horses, I will either work in some explanation of the train's security measures or just cut it. Again, thanks all!

Hello everyone, feel free to post any comments about either or both versions of the introductory mini-chapter of 'Manticore Rose' below. As I noted in my email, I'm interested in the following - which one you like better (and why) - any expectations you might form from the introduction - any other comments, general, specific or otherwise. Thanks a heap, ~NMW

Would it be at all possible for me to submit something today?

Greetings, Sorry for the delay in getting to this piece. I don't have a lot to say that hasn't already been said, so just let me 'second' some of what the others have pointed out: - the 'Christendom' reference jumped out at me as well; didn't seem to fit into the 'milieu' you'd created up to that point - I was never a Harry Potter fan so my mind doesn't immediately jump to Rowling when I read the word 'phoenix', but I suppose it's something to consider - as is, it would need (as guru coyote says) a trim-down in revision. flash requires lean, lean, fighting-machine prose to really work. I could see this going two ways. You could make it a much larger work, as the others have suggested. More explicit magic system, deeper characterization, for example (the bit with the hair). OR another option...reeeeaaaally strip it down. Explain nothing!!! You could just show us the boy i the bird, and what the man does about it, and if you did all that poetically enough in stark, striking images that could be really cool. (Grain of salt: personally, i'm not big on interior monologue in general, i tend to strip it out of my first drafts wherever possible and communicate whatever thoughts or emotions i have to communicate with acts, gesture or dialogue--difficult in a piece like this...) I guess if it's flash, take advantage of it and make it cool in the way that flash is cool. leave great big honking gaps in our understanding for us to fill in ourselves. If it's supposed to do something else, give it room to do so. Cheers! ~NW

Hello there. I just got around to reading the piece. An interesting fragment, though I had no idea of its relation to the Prophet and Islamic lore and so on. I just read it as, 'Ah, Middle Eastern-themed fantasy sure is popular these days, isn't it?' That subtext would have made it much more meaningful on the first read, I guess. My issue with the piece is that it is quite 'telly' (as opposed to 'showy'). That is down to two things I suppose. One: the situation of the character, alone with his thoughts--what else are you going to do but tell the reader his thoughts? And two: the fragmentary nature of the piece, which obliges you to go into Salim's backstory. The combination of these two elements makes for a lot of explaining. If this were part of a longer piece, and we had some foreknowledge of Salim's relationship with this woman, the sensory information you use could be more evocative, rather than explanatory. You do a little of this here, but it could be more so. But that's also partly my problem, perhaps. I like to 'see' what my characters are doing, even if they're not properly 'doing' anything per se. For example, near the end of the first part: >>"Salim waited, for more debris, for the sound of violence, for a sign of terminus. But when none came and the shouting continued, he resigned himself to analyzing the soil. Or would have, if aught had been visible in the renewed black." Is he standing? Sitting? What does it look like when he 'resigns himself'? All we have is his thoughts. In my mind's eye I need to see him physically before I get into his brain. Maybe this has something to do with the 'pyramid of description' or whatever they talk about. Physical, concrete details at the foundation and more abstract ones at the top. I mean, if you just started the paragraph with 'Salim sat cross-legged amid the filth on the floor and frowned' before springboarding into his mind, then I'd be right on board. I think the second part works better than the first, for this reason. We have some character interaction, a little tit-for-tat. The descriptions do their job of making things visual and suggesting depth behind the object, etc. One minor nitpicky thing I noticed, a couple redundancies that you would probably have noticed upon revision anyways. "A piercing screech" (as opposed to a soothing one?) or "mixing and mingling" (nice ring to it with the alliteration and all, but if you should find yourself in need of words to cut here's a candidate) That's it I guess. Hope I've been helpful somehow! ~NMW

I liked this. There's a lot of potential pitfalls in writing in a cultural milieu other than one's own, especially with a female protagonist, but you seem to dodge them all quite elegantly. In fact, early on with the sort of stereotypical 'china doll' description of Zhao at the beginning and the scene where she gives Bao the mechanical box, I thought for sure Zhao was going to turn out to be some kind of automaton or something. Soooo glad that didn't happen. Not being an expert, I can't speak to the authenticity of certain details and what not, but the impression I get is that you did the research. So, suspension of disbelief is there. The prose is clean and effective, with maybe one exception, the second paragraph. Feels a little speedbump-y to me--especially the first and last sentences. >Though Tao Wan's husband was also a diplomat, Tao took pride in her own plain features. Lady Zhai's unforgettable elegance would have been a drawback in Tao's work, where fading from notice could be the difference between success and failure. But unlike Xia's rulers, the Song emperors had no place for women in their service. The first sentence with "Though..." I don't really see the clear contrast between the first clause and the second (her husband's job and her pride). It feels like an uncomfortable way of shoehorning in exposition. I'd unpack it a little bit. Maybe saying, "Tao's features were much plainer. Like Yang, her husband was also a diplomat. But Lady Zhao's elegance would have..." etc. Also, the last sentence of this paragraph doesn't seem well enough connected to the main idea of the rest of it. I'd suggest adding something there, like "But unlike Xia's rulers, the Song emperors had no place for women in their service, no matter how plain or beautiful they were." Only other nitpick would be the sentence: "but needs must when the dragon battered at your door." It switch this to present tense, "batters". You've noticed these are very minor complaints. In general, I think this story works quite well. Good luck with it!

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I think this one is going snugly in the trunk now. There's a couple of cool scenes there, but I'm seeing that on the whole it's pretty unworkable as is. I may come back to it one day who knows. In any case, I think I learned a lot just by finishing the dadgum thing (even if it is just a novella). The next one will be better. Again, thanks to everyone who took the time to comment, (especially Mandamon!) I'll try to reciprocate.

after a long hiatus, here is the latest installment on the Slim, Black Rectangle. looking back at it after a long while, Im afraid it looks like its going to need to heavy reworking, so any pointers would be greatly appreciated. So let me know anything that's boring, or confusing, or that breaks suspension of disbelief. Also anything you happen to like. Cheers ~NMW

it's been a million years since i submitted, is there a slot open for next Monday?

Hi there, sorry for the delay in commenting on this chapter (busy weeks around these parts...) Here's my general impression of this chapter: We have what seems to be a "sequel-scene" sequence: Ori is moping about, mulling over what to do about the Drains, wondering about what Rilan's whole deal is, and rueing the day he took on an apprentice. Not a lot of action going on, which is OK, but I feel that it lacks structure. A quick suggestion: we start with Origon's thought process described in the abstract >>Origon spent much of the night and the next day feeling frustrated...The sheer bureaucracy of the place was starting to get to him again." Then in the second paragraph, we find that he's walking up the stairs after "a tasteless lunch" (I'm not sure 'tasteless' is what you want, it BTW, to me it suggests something like a cheap, offensive joke--maybe 'bland'? 'insipid'?) of bog grubs. I'd feel more comfortable as a reader if you give me the scene first and then his reflections. LIke "Ori sat chewing the last of his bog grubs, unable to overcome his feelings of frustration." Or something--I guess I just need a solid visual of what the character is doing before I can properly process any info about his thought process. Does that make sense? In the second part, the more 'scene-y' portion, I found myself a bit at a loss in terms of the scenery of the Nether. Maybe because I read the earlier chapters so long ago but I don't have a very good picture in my mind of what Sam sees and what everything looks like? I'd like the descriptions to be more descriptive. You pay a lot of attention to character and exposition in this scene, introducing Inas and Rey and all of that, but the lack of concrete detail in the setting always feels like a missed opportunity to me, and actually throws me out of the story. More vivid images would hold me in more I think. Speaking of which, is this money system going to be plot-significant at some point in the story? If not, I feel like there's a lot of space devoted to describing it that might not be necessary. Last thing I'll comment on, I feel like there's a bit of conflict missing in this scene--like, there should be some obstacle that they're trying to overcome? We see that maybe towards the end of the scene when the crowd appears. Maybe you could try tightening up that whole scene to bring that in earlier. Maybe I'm seeing something similar to what you pointed out in my last chapter--the dreaded slog through the middle section? (Although I feel like your story has a lot farther to go than mine...) Anyway, good luck with it, hope my comments are as helpful as yours have been... ~NMW

Right on, thanks for the feedback. I guess the idea was for this part to be sort of the rollicking action-packed sequence of the book. But maybe the character is just bouncing around aimlessly. As far as wasted characters or connections, would it make a difference if I went ahead and said that the old man and the girl come back in the next chapters, in hopefully unexpected ways? I will consider your suggestion of trimming it down some. Again, thanks for the feedback, I'll try to reciprocate here when I get a chance!

Hello. Took me a while to get around to this. Minor disclaimer, my experience with high-ish fantasy and YA is fairly minimal, so Im afraid I wont have much to say about certain aspects of the story (magic systems, etc) as I dont have the familiarity or eye for catching cliches and holes in the magic system and what not. I didn't read the "first" version/chapter, but I get the feeling this will be better as a 2nd chapter than as a first, with another, secondary perspective on the characters which (I imagined) you introduced in the other version. As it stands, I agree with what the others have said above re: the inactive nature of the character. I'd like to see more stuff being done...also, like there's a lot of narrative summary that could be brought out in 'scene'. Like: >>I appeared to the old woman in all my “Princess Pythia” glory, glamoring myself with illusions to look ethereal and regal, and speaking in low tones about the eternal glory that awaited anyone who could rescue my city and me. The dream impressed her enough to announce the quest to hundreds of adventures at her inn. This could be a cool scene. Im thinking maybe this was in the 'first chapter' I didn't read? Or not? Seems like a missed opportunity. If we had more action happening 'onstage' you'd have more little slots to slip in exposition, and maybe you could lighten up the 'explainy'-ness that seems to accumulated at the beginning. I'll just second Mandamon's words above: And not to sound like I'm totally just parroting Mandamon (sorry!) but yeah, keep on writing and don't worry about the first chapter. Getting to the meat of the story will help you determine whats really going on and whats really the best way to start it all out. (I suppose there's a reason for the old saw about writers always trashing the first chapter in their first drafts).

oops! just resent it, sorry about that!

A day late (and a dollar short) - the time zone thing is tricky... Here's the thread from ch 8, like i said before, let me know any parts that are boring or confusing or that wreck your suspension of disbelief. Also, if you like any bits of it especially, thats helpful too. Thanks a lot!

Hi there, wondering if I could go ahead and send something later on today...

Hi there, though I'd reach back in the files and give a look at this one, since I'd been reading almost all of it up to this point (plus I noticed that it must have come in during one of those little lulls that sometimes happens...) I had to go back and reread Chap 11 because I was really lost at first in the scene with the Assembly. After re-reading it I still had trouble with it, as there is a bit of saturation with names of races and characters (to my feeble mind, at least). In the first part of the chapter, in fact in the first paragraphs we have references to "Feldo" and "Bofan A'Tosh", then a little while later "Veshtin", and then "Scintien Nectiset" and "Rabata Humbano", then Councilor Freshta, all the space of a couple manuscript pages. Really steep learning curve here. I think some of these character references (the ones that don't directly intervene in the action) could be elided to help--I get the sense that all the namedropping is meant to help establish the POV with Rilan, and to hint at other political relations and implications. But I see it as a bit excessive...at least for me. With the amount of political intrigue already out on the table (the Sathssn secession, the putative Suseriaj massacre, Methiemum assassination plot, Ori and his drains) there's a lot to process I think, without further burdening the info-load with the more subtle kinds of backroom intrigue (which you hint at rather elegantly in merely describing the gestures and glances about the room..that may be enough actually to get that across, I dunno). That's about all I have, notewise. You seem to be following a sort of scene-sequel format with this chapter, and the second part works pretty well. I will just point out a couple of bits of Sam's POV that are a bit 'on-the-nose' I think: >>"Sam was still trying to get an idea of the technology the ten species had." I think you can communicate that without spelling it out so much, something like "It struck him as kind of funny that in such a technologically advanced society they still had something as primitive as a book" (or something) >>Sam glanced significantly at Enos, who regarded him impassively. (I would lose the first of these -ly adverbs) Oh, and one from the beginning that I didn't understand exactly: >>...and he glibly answering. He sounded terrified. Which is it? If he's being glib, that implies a certain lassitude on his part, right? Spell out the way he sounds terrified. A telltale trembling in his voice? A tense intonation at the ends of phrases? Some little cue like that, instead of "sounded terrified". (Just a suggestion!) Again, nice work, take all suggestions with a grain of salt, etc. Cheers! ~NMW

If you want, just reply to the email I sent out tuesday and I'll hit you back with ch's 1-6.

oops, forgot to post the topic. i'm working on some critiques for the rest of you, i promise...

Wow, looks like things have picked up. I too have been superbusy lately. I want to get back to critiquing and submitting here. Can I go ahead and put in a bid for this coming Monday? I rewrote (and combined) Chaps 7 and 8 of my novella, hoping to see what you might think.

Thanks for confirming my suspicions! Theres some mention made of this back in Chapter 4 IIRC but yeah maybe it is a little random. We'll have to have a look at that. Yeah, I agree this is totally the weakest part (so far anyway...) I'll have to make something happen in the scene with Hwan, as in something other than "they go shopping"...more conflict: maybe Hwan is more hostile than now, wants to recruit Dimas to the Colonia Homeland cause but not in such a nicey-nice way, at least at first...hell i don't know. As for the argument, the problem there is probably just me writing crappy dialogue. i can probably tweak it without having to rearrange the story pieces too much. Maybe so. I knew going into it that the scene with the punk kids was going to get cut, but I was tempted to include it due to its slightly autobiographical provenance. One darling, to be killed... As for Dimas trying to go back to his old apartment, he doesn't really have anywhere else to go, does he? Plus, he's heading that direction to meet with the Colonel anyway, so... Anyway, a lot of work to be done here...

Wow...I'd tried reading this without having read the previous chapter and was thoroughly lost. Then I went back, read Chap 10, came back and had a much easier time of it. Meaning, whatever you're doing worldbuilding, pacing, learning curve-wise, etc. seems to be working; I'm able to follow the yarn without doing too strenous a mental gymnastics routine. There were a couple speedbumps for me, prose wise, which I will proceed to nitpick: >>His voice was like melted chocolate, rich and warm and much deeper than anyone of his size had a right to. Rilan loved hearing him speak, the little he did. The reference to 'melted chocolate' jars me a bit coming in narration like that. Maybe if we flip flopped the sentences: "Rilan loved hearing him, etc. His voice was like etc.", the image would be more closely associated with Rilan's POV. If not it seems to me a bit random. >>The whole Assembly could hear him easily, not only because of his loud voice and the good acoustics, but because of the System laid in over the floor, augmenting any sounds. A minor POV qualm here: if the viewpoint character is ostensibly Rilan, how do we know what the whole Assembly could or couldn't hear. Maybe something more objective, like "The sound of his voice rang out across the Assembly, reaching all corners effortlessly thanks to etc.'. Also. is this 'System' you mention going to come into play later somehow plotwise or something? If not you could just leave it out. I'd get almost more of a 'sense of wonder' kind of thing if it were thanks to the badass acoustics of the place. (Just an opinion.) One last nit to pick: >>The Sureri walked to the center of the rotunda, cocked a hip, etc. >>The Sureri was typical of his kind—tall, painfully thin, etc. We're introduced to this Sureri character who is brought onstage and made to cock his hip etc. before we even get a chance to "see him" through description. When I read the actual description I had to go back and revise my mental image of him. A bit confusing. Anyhow, I think the dialogue and character development via interior monologue etc is getting steadily better as the plot thickens. Keep up the good work.

Hey, this is a little late in coming, but I was trying to read Chap 11 without having read chap 12 and it was a bit confusing. So I backed up, read it, and figured I ought to comment on one or two things. I think the dialogue and interactions here flow pretty well, the bits of interior monologue fit in well, etc. The explanation of the 'magic system' if you wanna call it that isn't at all info-dumpy, which is good. I also didn't get the feeling of the Cult of Form being some evil al-Qaeda thing (but maybe I missed that in a previous chapter). I would. however, be cautious with some of the descriptions of Enos. To me, it seems like descriptions like "she looked more Polynesian than Oriental" really kind of put people in a 'race' box that I'm not sure is very sensitive. In fact, I don't think anyone uses the word 'Oriental' for people anymore; rugs maybe but not people. I'd also be wary about the "almond-shaped" eyes, not because it's offensive but it's a bit cliched. Other than that no real qualms, apart from one bit, where it says: >>"Enos was pretty—like, one of the prettiest girls he had ever seen, but he was hopeless with girls." At this stage I think the point that he's not great with the ladies has been hammered home pretty satisfactorily, no need to spell it out again. Now on to Chapter 11!

Here's a thread for chap 7 and 8. Please let me know what you think. Personally, looking back Chapter 7 is looking especially weak, any tips or suggestions are appreciated! ~NMW