Tamriel Wolfsbaine

That sounds like a fun time at the table. Rule of cool > the DMs feelings imo. While I love 3.5 or Pathfinder or any other d20 system, I have to say that the RP is what I love most about the MAG rules. Combat exists in 3 forms as each character has 3 separate health pools. You can attack your enemies health, reputation or willpower. I personally felt that the skill checks in most D20 systems left the true RP seriously wanting. Building a character to have a passive pass on all social skill checks just made conversation a sad thing. The way the MAG lays it out is in such a way that losing health in any form has lasting consequences that can't simply be healed up (except strong feruchemists are a bit OP in that regard). And you actually assemble dice pools and have rounds of combat for social interactions. Whether you are you trying to destroy a noble house lords reputation or you want to crack the willpower of an informant you have to assemble the dice and roll. ... honest downside... gathering and talking through how large your dice pool will be could use some house rules for brevity otherwise it can be a time sink. Anyways. When there isn't a healer to fix your lost arm the desire to go fullbore murderhobo gets cut down a lot. You have to deal with and live with these other characters in the world that you are interacting with afterall.

My job has never let me have a steady enough schedule to play a character other than the NPC. Any time I would play online or whatever I would just set up side gigs with guilds or groups in MMOs or over roll20. Offering quests or story for people who wanted a 1 shot or whatever. One of my favorites was a bee keeper in ESO who was a thieves guild contact and surgeon for anyone who wanted to work into and through the rift. Just a normal vendor type of NPC playing through Rift related events but his house had a cave entrance hidden behind a wall and he would patch up and hide the folks who would pay for it. This Kolossblooded would likely be some hustler in the park making bets and playing while storing then when its rematch time ramp up with some zinc tappage. It would take a special type of person to want to call out a massive koloss blooded in some nice slacks with a blazer that is ready to tear at the seams. If he needed to exist in a game as a deadly threat toss a gold spike into him for F gold and ramp up his influence and resources with a few goons of his own... make him some casino running mobster or whatever. I saw this short on YouTube where the guy said something along the lines of "Don't talk when you are the smartest guy in the room because you don't want to give away all of your secrets. And don't talk when you aren't the smartest guy in the room because you want to listen and learn what everyone else knows." Again it can totally exist as a hodgepodge of a character. Depending on threat level (a tool used in the MAG to build NPCs) you can titration the character from basic kolossblooded with no powers but higher wits up to kolossblooded twinborn with a spike or medallion and a following of goons.

I just wanted to mash a bunch of my favorite characters together. The natural strength of a koloss blooded was just for flavor. I wasn't planning on him being a trained fighter but due to what he naturally is being larger and more capable than the normal human. Really I like the concierge of crime feel. A little Red Redington with a little Wilson Fisk. In the game tapping lots of zinc allows you to choose what you do after your enemies have stated their intentions and also allows you to perform the action you will take at any point in the combat sequence that you choose. Add on some not too overpowered kolossblooded flavoring and it would make for some neat scenes. RDJ in the 2009 Sherlock Holmes pit fight type of feel from a combat perspective. Zinc making you hungry is a nice addition as I can totally see a big dude (like some worlds strongest man contenders) playing a game of chess with little pieces and needing to chow down some massive 10000 calories of food for the day or whatever. Its a total hodgepodge and more made to be an NPC than a player character. Not a total brute and not a total slimy mastermind. Just a big dude with a bigger brain and his own agenda.

I think it all depends on what is coming for Scadrial. I am the 1 vote for Kelsier in this poll atm. Sometimes it takes a violent dog to fight the wolf. I sort of have a bad taste in my mouth from Sazed not granting kandra the ability to reproduce and keeping them around in servitude. Kind of a noble move to keep your masked immortals. I don't imagine Kelsier would have made that choice. Though Kel is messed up in otherways. Perhaps Ruin would have taken a larger hold on Kelsier and there wouldn't be enough balance in him.

@alder24 @Trusk'our I forgot about the storage of memories in breaths. Do those breaths stay with the awakener and do you think the memories can be moved back and forth the same as copper? I felt like the instance we saw he was using it to erase her memory. If that breath was used up or remained to be used for other things or simply recover the memory later remains to be determined right? As far as coppermind storage. We don't really have any way to tell how fast those memories can be filtered through right? Is coppermind usage like flipping through a book or is it available for immediate recall? In a game of chess who do you think comes out on top? F zinc with years of experience or F copper with a coppermind filled with every game ever played and all theories? How about for language? Is duralumin just outright better for translation or would a coppermind with all known languages stored suffice just as well? I know duralumin only works one way. If a duralumin user were from scadrial and ended up on roshar trying to have a discussion with someone from nalthis would they be able to communicate? I thought the medallion was location based? I agree zinc allows for far better calculation. If C zinc is like the limitless pill it would appear to be better than even having F copper... in fact it might make F copper completely unnecessary unless you were specifically trying to transfer memories from one person to another and then forget them all together. (Feruchemical copper in specialty is going to be totally busted with the availability of medallion tech in the future). Side note - I watched a hilarious MAG YouTube episode where the copper ferring stored all of his memories of the way he betrayed this whole group and then the metalminds were lost. They were in a position where punishment was necessary but the guilty party had no memories of his connection to them and just played off of this whole imprisonment as "I just don't understand why you are all so mad at me." Totally pitiful and funny to see the quandary. Back on topic. I totally see C zinc as being the superior however you have to have a background knowledge to use it. It could be totally possible that zinc allows for near instant recall of all memories anyways. Unless.... I certainly have had moments where a song gets stuck in your head but for the life of you you cannot remember where it came from. I have obsessed over things like this for unhealthy lengths of time in the past. Would large amounts of zinc allow me to remember it easier or would it just burn through zinc to make it through hours of frustration not being able to remember in a few seconds? As for the other uses from other systems I like all of that feedback. I agree and believe that someone invested with thousands of breaths likely does have a higher base intelligence at some level or another. You can't be invested with that much power and not have some sort of enhanced mind. My guilty reason for this entire discussion? Kolossblooded chess hustler character.

I am curious how related the underlying mechanics between forgery and identity compounding are. If there is a potential for achieving similar results.

Trying to build a human calculator of a character with cosmere enhancements. Obvious choices would be zinc and copper compounding but it leads me to ask more questions. How do you think kandra blessings of stability and presence measure up in terms of enhanced intelligence and wisdom or wit? Are there other systems I am missing for augmenting brain power? I know some systems perhaps offer a direct link to another brilliant entity (I assume Shallan could make an excellent chess player so long as she just listens to pattern as he plays the game for her unseen by her opponents). If you could only compound zinc or copper but were allowed a medallion with the other ability which do you think would be more powerful as a compounded metal or which do you think would play off of the other metal being compounded best? Copper compounder with F zinc Or Zinc compounder with F copper?

In a fight amongst 2 gods would the fact that the windrunner has an oath to keep make any difference at all? I assume using planets as weapons would involve much collateral damage. Meanwhile the fullborn could be the ultimate bad guy through duralumin and emotional allomancy to build up massive hordes of innocent worshipers. A messed up way to win a fight. But when it is God's vs Gods and neither can die or be hurt I imagine squires and populations will play a larger role.

Thanks for these. I communicated that poorly. I just meant that communicating and controlling must be magnitudes different in difficulty. Yeah this is just more of what I dislike about Harmony. You have free will so long as you obey me otherwise I will splice into your brain and make you obey me anyways. The opposite of true agency. I genuinely feel bad for the Kandra and their complete lack of agency under him.

Do you think if she had approached Wax and discussed it he would have been on board with helping to aquire a set? Could it be that due to being a kandra Melaan could simply shift whatever parts of her need to be uses to communicate with harmony? Like taking an aluminum lined hat off but instead you just shift that part of your insides far enough away from the aluminum to make communication possible? Either way. Communication and shardic control are 2 totally things. Bleeder was able to communicate with Wax somehow but there was no way she could have ever controlled him. I think if Melaan can simply move those communication bits far enough away to keep the radio frequency open she will be fine while perhaps retaining the resistance to shardic control. Shardic control is my biggest issue with the Kandra and in a sense my biggest issue with Harmony as a whole. He was obviously okay taking direct control of Bleeder pushing her to killing herself. Perhaps that wasn't his master plan but he obviously didn't have issues siezing control the second she had a spike shot into her. Perhaps he would have allowed her an aluminum truebody if she wanted it in hopes that it would help her retain her sanity? Perhaps it would have been forbidden because she was already super jacked up mentally after all of her centuries of work previously?

Canine olfactory system would be a huge bonus. If you could manage to get the sight abilities from a mantis shrimp and combine it with some birds of prey. A spiders ability to feel and react to the world around it is based on the hairs on its body... if a kandra could create the muscles to replicate that they would be in possession of better feel than Spook could dream of.

Perhaps I missphrased that. Iron feruchemy allows you to effect the world around you without destroying yourself. The 3.5million was just what he could store for a single day. He could have had far more than that stored (I actually think that his iron feruchemy habits are a great argument for the amount of attribute a set of bracers could hold). I don't want to jump fully on board with the idea that he pushed the nails out and the building fell apart because of how framing nails are designed and used. Unless he was blowing them through the wood entirely which I think would still suggest he had to have the weight to destroy the structure. Even then he also became so heavy to break the floor of his mansion for himself and his little crew at the time. Perhaps that was the better feat of weight? I don't know what Elendel standards are for how their buildings are put together but I imagine the floors of the top 0.5% are pretty sturdy. As for the bleeder example of the single shot. That would be even more of an argument for the fact that she was able to function while working at a very high tapped rate. Not just function but line up shots and hit her targets while doing it. Iron is too funky to use for anything. It makes everything buckle under you unless you are contacting flesh with a punch where it is wholly ineffective. Thus I trust Iron usage as far as I can throw it... which can differ depending on the rules of iron...

I can't help but respond to this... metal sewn into the awakened mistcloak is so epic! I head cannoned an awakener character with knives sewn into a mistcoat just a week or so ago after watching the Slave King Gael fight in DS3 when he jumps at the opponent and his cloak flaps forward to slap them.

The times we see iron being used and steel being used are completely different circumstances. I think it is well within reason that the more you tap the more you feel the diminishing returns of what you are gaining. Not just in attribute but in the ability to balance out those attributes. We have never seen a steel runner needing to increase beyond 3 or 4x their speed. Indoors, moving at 80mph would be more than enough to produce the results we have seen I think. Every "feat" of iron we have seen was the characters just dumping all of their iron at once basically. The way iron stores and gets used, from Waxes point of view at least, would mean when he is tapping he is getting magnitudes more attribute. I don't disagree that Marasi likely used some zinc to aid her at those speeds. However at those speeds the attribute dump would have been 40x or so her normal speed. When Wax crushed the building he drained his metalminds. He stores a third of his weight all the time. If he were a 200lb man and was storing roughly 60lbs each waking moment and he slept 8hrs a night you still have him storing nearly 3.5 million lbs accessible for 1 second. From a single day. He drained his metalminds in seconds. Wax was tapping tens of thousands of times worth of his attribute stores. When Sazed needed extra strength to move his weight... he was heavy enough to brace city doors against hordes of koloss. He was likely tapping thousands of times his body weight as well. I think that comparing what we see of iron to what we see of steel is foolhardy as the magnitude of the attribute dumps are not comparable at all. I also imagine that the spiritual realm would be a lot more efficient at lower levels of tapped attribute. A person tapping 2 or 3x weight will move a lot better, as the spirit realm is better at compensating than someone at 20000x weight. Likewise a person with just 2 or 3x tapped speed will be able to compensate a lot better than 20000x speed. The biggest difference is that iron can be used at those magnitudes where the bands ran out after just a few seconds of 40x speed. I take bullet time as meaning that the world slows down around you. I don't think that it is in good spirits to compare tapping 4x speed with tapping tens of thousands of times your body weight. Yet that is what we have to go off of in the books. As far as iron goes. I believe iron effects the world around you but not you. You can squat 400 without tapping anything. You aren't squatting 800 by being twice as heavy. Your lungs aren't crushed when you weight millions of lbs pushing down on a building beneath you. There is a point where moving is more difficult but to assume that it is at 2x weight when our examples have the user going for broke every time is perhaps slightly disingenuous. How fast was bleeder going? Waynes speed bubbles have slowed down bullets and even a Shockwave from an explosion enough to react to. I think to say bleeder only ever went more than 4x normal would be a huge downplay of bendalloy. I also think that if bendalloy allows compression of time of only 10x would say that bleeders ability to recognize what was happening still suggests the bullet time effect was keeping up even then.

Is it possible that breaths simply pause the aging process instead of keeping a person looking young? With enough breaths your cellular structure and age could stay the same for as long as you keep that many breaths. Only once you drop below that 5th heightening threshold do they start to age. Even at that it would be severely decreased aging speed. If 50 breaths can add 10 years to a person then 1950 breaths could add 390 years to a person. I imagine it would actually add more and slow down the rate that the person ages more and more per breath until they hit the threshold where aging stops completely anyway. Even if stripped of all of their breath I think, now, that they wouldn't go through a TLR moment and shrivel up. They would simply start the rest of their life from that point as a drab. Allowed to fight and find the breaths to elongate it more when and however they can.

There is a 4x difference from the perspective of someone breaking down the difference. You aren't just gaining an advantage when you tap speed. You are also forcing a disadvantage. When I move 4x normal speed I am not just making the world around me moved at 12.5% playback but i am making myself move 400% for my opponent. I get that for me there is just the advantage of being 4x faster. I get that for them the disadvantage is just that I am moving 4x faster... but there is a far greater gap than that precievely because the time slows down. Relative to 0 -4 and 4 are both only 4 numbers away. From neither perspective are they more than 4 numbers away from a baseline of 0. But every step you take in both directions the gap doesn't just get bigger by one side. Every 1 step you take away from zero that total gap between them grows. When people think that overcoming 2x or 3x speed is a thing they can do I just don't think they realize how much that is to overcome. Every move the faster person takes doesn't just happen faster but it will happen more precisely and be a more dangerous attack because they have far longer to formulate it as well. But I get that there is never a point at which either person sees more advantage or disadvantage from eachother. I think I overestimated in the differences by saying there was a 32x difference and that someone would have to move 128x faster to be the same as you would if you were moving 4x. I think it would be far more linear than that. If you move 4x faster then someone moving 4x faster than normal sets your speed to 0. They wouldn't need to move 128x faster for that advantage. They would just have to double your speed 4 times for a grand total of 16x movement for you to see what a normal person sees when they look at you moving 4x normal speed. But still there isn't just a 4x difference. You both feel it but for every ounce of advantage a speedster gets they also dish out an ounce of disadvantage onto their opponent. But yes. From either perspective it is just advantage or disadvantage.

If they see you as moving 200% speed and you are watching them at 50% then 200/50 is literally a 4x difference. 300/25=12x difference 400/12.5=32x difference Thus if you are moving 4x faster than them you have as big of an advantage against them as someone moving 128x normal speed would have against you at 4x normal speed.

A kandra with 2 lerasium spikes would walk around at 500lbs with a toasty core body temp of 111 degrees Celsius? Everyone moving at 25% normal speed? And every calorie consumed counts as 3? I mean I don't hate the idea. I guess hemalurgic decay is a thing and the magic protects the user typically. I never thought of it in terms of feruchemical attributes. There is no spike we know of that can steel body heat is there? I just assumed it would encompass any attribute that can be stolen from the table as it is.

Well sure you would see them moving at the speed that is relative to how much you are tapping right? If you are moving double the normal speed then you would see "normal" speed at half the speed. It isn't that you cut the other peoples speed in half. Just that you precieve yourself moving normally while they see a blur. To your mind I imagine your punches happen exactly the speed that they always happen no matter how much speed you are tapping. To your opponent you are simply moving twice as fast, which is easy to see that effect and how difficult it would be to dodge a strike from someone moving faster by speeding up the video. For the person moving so much faster, because their body is moving normally for their perception everyone else is slowed way down. In this case the difference in total speed change is far higher than looking at one or the other. I'm just saying that the difference between the 2 is staggering. If your top speed is 20mph and you tap 100% speed you total to 2x faster than normal and go 40mph. For you to go 60mph you tap 200% speed and go 3x faster. 80mph is 4x faster. But you perceive the world around you being cut in half each time. 50% of normal for 2x 25% of normal for 3x and 12.5% of normal at 4x. In order for a speedster to see what the non speedster is seeing at each of those breakpoints you would have to be moving exponentially faster than the speedster. For a person moving twice as fast, or 40mph in this case, they would have to witness someone going 4x faster than themselves. 160mph. For a person moving 60mph or 3x as fast as their normal to see a person moving the speed that a normal person is perceiving them at the faster speedster would have to be traveling 12x as fast. 720 mph. For the person moving 80mph to be see another person moving relatively as fast as they are to a normal person that other person would have to be moving 32x as fast. (400% normal speed / what the speedster sees at 12.5%). 2560mph. I don't think writing out the numbers is perhaps the best way to illustrate it either. For a steelrunner using enough steel to go 4x normal speed to be at the same disadvantage that their opponent is at, the steel runner would have to be facing a speedster who is tapping enough speed to go 128x normal speed. Because steel tapping speeds up your perception enough that it is like you are moving normally.

What other attributes do you think there are? I am a believer that a tin spike would steal steel sight if obtained while a coinshot was burning the metal. Or bronze while they were burning. Or if they had breaths perhaps you would get lifesense etc. I know iron for physical prowess. Tin for senses. Zinc for the intelligence or wit. Copper for the mental stability or whatever. I don't know if any of the spiritual metals would be transfered as an attribute would they? Would lerasium steal destiny, connection, identiy or whatever as well?

I feel like that is my whole point. We can see how busted it is from the perspective of slowing things down. Speeding things up is a much harder perspective to get. Comparing the two of them at the same time is really hard to imagine or fathom. At least I feel like it is.

If the kandra blessings are based off of stolen attributes and not powers then would a kandra spiked with lerasium blessings gain the benefits of all 4 of the other blessings together? Would burning a slight amount of the lerasium blessing spike turn the kandra into a mistborn? Would you be left with a slightly less stable kandra mistborn or would both spikes burn entirely leaving you with an insanely powerful mistborn mistwraith? Does the investiture trapped in a spike work the same way as metalminds in that it would be protected and simply more "compact" in the metal while burning the metal away leaving you with smaller spikes in volume but the same amount of power and investiture? This would keep the same benefits of the spikes as well as whatever potential strength mistborn you could become with the amount of metal not filled with stolen spikes attribute.

I have been a large believer that F steels biggest advantage isn't just the speed part... but the perception of the user being slowed down. I know this will be a recycled argument from another thread but I wanted to take it a step up. This video, while choreographed, I think is a well paced fight scene to compare. Normal speed is, well, normal speed. If a steelrunner were to tap 100% speed thus moving 2x as fast it makes more of a gap than I realized though. In the realm of perception changes alone you can see it is a much larger gap than just moving twice as fast. Playing the video at 0.5x speed shows what your steel runner would see. Playing it at 2x speed shows how fast that steel runner would be moving to the naked eye. It is easy to see though, in this test at least, that when a steelrunner taps twice as much speed they aren't just effecting themselves. That speed boost effects the other person as well. The difference in how you can perceive your opponents actions is actually 4x slower than you appear to them. In YouTube you can slow the video even more down to 0.25x. This would be only a tripling of speed for the speedster and you can see how bullet-timey it really gets. There is no option from where I am standing to play the video at 3x speed but that would lead us to the perspectives of both parties if the speedster were to tap an additional 200% speed just moving 3x faster than normal. In this case you would be watching your opponent move 12x slower than what they see you move. Following this pattern your opponent would be moving 32x slower to you than what you appear to them when tapping speed to move just 4x faster. And this pattern just grows exponentially. Of course my math skills are not up to snuff and I really don't know if it possible to compare it to anything else. I guess some flipbook master could make comparisons better. For normal speed both parties progress one frame per sheet of paper. At 2x speed then the sped up person goes every piece of paper while the slower person is moving at a rate of every 4 sheets. At 3x speed the normal person would only get a new action every 12 sheets of paper and at 4x speed the normal person would only recieve a new animation every 32 sheets of paper. This would certainly do a better job of illustrating the idea than just speeding up and slowing down videos.

Kolossblooded. Will they end up with extra strength and durability or is that not a physiological thing that can be transfered? And... Will it stack with a blessing of potency? If consuming a dog or horse gets to be stronger / faster or you are able to obtain the olfactory senses of an animal would you be able to gain the rewards of consuming a kolossblooded in a similar fashion?

Kandra basically exist with a blessing specific to what they are created for while having F gold and compounded atium built into their kits. They have centuries to gain experience and learn neat tricks like making their body harder or stronger. Kandra get to become whatever they want, pretty well whenever they want, and they can conceal super rad weapons and true bodies. It is really hard for me to not choose kandra, however I have been on a bit of a koloss blooded kick lately and asthetically I really like the underappreciated blue giants. Between the 3 choices here... Kandra has to take the win. Knowing that medallions are becoming more popular and other systems are going to be introduced soon.... TLM spoilers: Plus the kandra will probably be able to live long enough to enjoy the mashups of magic systems in the future. Breaths are really sticky and I imagine a kandra could be pretty convincing and come by a couple heightening's at least. Edit: I totally forgot to mention the benefits of piecing together enhanced senses even without blessing of awareness through a collection of animal bits. To walk around appearing totally human while rocking the sense of smell of a dog... awesome! As for my love of kolossblooded... I guess kandra answers that too as I could always just consume a Kolossblooded or shape my form to appear as one around a larger truebody.