Tamriel Wolfsbaine

On 8/10/2024 at 4:02 PM, Elite01 said:

I think thats the closest surge to this ability for sure. This is interesting because it makes me wonder can a dustrbringer decay memories? Could the fused that uses Division decay memories? If a form of power can do it then I don't see why a Fused wouldn't be able to.

There is the chance this is only canon until it conflicts with something else but it is interesting. 

I wonder if similar principle could be applied to skybreakers in an attempt towards criminal reform. 

I always believed that soulcasting required something to change into something else. When Jasnah soulcast Shallans blood was she simply doing it to purify out the poison?  

Do you think it would be possible to soulcast new blood into a trauma patient who needs a transfusion?  What would you be turning into blood if the patient is already hypovolemic?  

@Koloss17 @RoyalBeeMage

Hey yo.  I briefly mentioned this to Koloss17 but life has struck and I actually won't be able to RP the way I had initially hoped. 

That said I did enjoy the process of making Tomvi. I wouldn't mind it if anyone wanted to adopt him and or make him an NPC.  I hope he can become a decent henchman or ally to someone, anyone, who needs a good crash dummy.  If you supply him with enough bendalloy I anticipate he would be able to last a good few years as a spore eater. 

GL to everyone. 

17 minutes ago, Longshot97 said:

@Tamriel Wolfsbaine First off, I wanted to say that your character seems awesome. It's a nice combination of different factors resulting in something greater than the sum of its parts.

I also tried to get an image for my own character. None of the generators I tried were satisfactory. Which generator did you use, and was it free?

Thanks! I have been fantasizing an aetherbased bendalloy compounder for a long time trying to make it even slightly balanced. @Koloss17 mentioned going for a spore eater instead of aetherbound as a balancing point and I really liked the idea. While I accept Tom wont have much control over the aether at all beyond trying to will it to take different shape (smooth crystal vs shards) I think that being nearly indestructible to physical abuse should allow for some fun moments while tempering back any absurd attacking potential. 

I honestly just use the Bing AI. If you have never tried convincing AI to get anything close to your description you are in for a treat. I tried describing the character in 10 different ways adding a bit here and taking away from here. It wasnt until I told it to make him look like an oversized hobbit that I got a result I liked. So use lots of different desciptions when trying to get something you like. And dont be afraid to tell the engine you are using that it jacked up the face and hands and make it try again. I know in the BING app set to creative you get 30 messages each up to 8000 characters. It will repeat and edit your images as many times as you need and it even saves the prompts that it is trying to do so you can omit bits that you dont like as well. You average 4 images from each prompt and then you can select different filters (which really just redoes the image in a specific style and usually looks a lot different but the same general idea).  Also describing a background or asking for a generic setting will really help getting it to sort it out a bit. I took a risk with that one and it was the first time I asked for anyone to be holding anything. The sandwich works so well in the image I had to save it. 

Good luck! 

And yes BING app is free just enter your microsoft account. 

Edit: 

I will say the biggest downside is that you will never get 2 images of the same character. There is no way for me to take that picture and actually set up another scene ever with the same character unless I find a way to draw it out myself.  So its great for a one time portrait of your general idea. Not so great for moving beyond that if you want to make your character come to life more than the one time. 

7 minutes ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

Eleos, The Mistwarrens, 0334 Tin Street.

Eleos tried to calm down as he checked and checked again that all of his gemstones were full. 
His earring? Full

his cufflinks? Full

his buttons? Full

his large purses filled with several dozen broams, marks and chips of all types? All but his emerald broam were full. 
 

Eleos spent several minutes quickly searching for his plate spren before remembering that he didn’t have any.

taking a deep breath Eleos knocked on the door 

 

Quote

Totally understand. I saw Koloss had posted and know you both had a scene to worth through. I just wanted to get Tomvi into a position to have some scenes. Whenever time and the story may allow.   

Quote

Alright. I guess this may be a wall of reading. My replies will be less tedious. This is Tomvi's entrance and first day in Alleycity. He has little knowledge of the happenings of the city except what he picked up along his route. Looking foward to meeting some new folks. @Koloss17 @RoyalBeeMage.

Tomvi, Travel from New Hallandren to the Mistwarrens, Edgedancer Camp

Tomvi stood at the side of the street and was frozen trying to internalize what he was seeing. It was hard for him to ignore that just moments ago he was walking down the damp dark alley across from the bar he worked at. But now, well, now it was practically midday and hot out. He was assaulted by new scents in the air and he was surrounded by some of the ugliest and most outlandish color schemes he could think of. He could even feel his spore was uneasy with the change. He could feel the roseite on high alert within him. Like tiny waves of stinging pain washing over his body. He didn't have a name for the infection other than just that. The old man had called it a spore and referenced it as an infection in his stupid pamphlet. So Tom figured that is all it deserved in terms of a name. Spore. 

Anyways, Spore seemed to always be anxious. In fact Tomvi figured that Spore was more anxiously engaged in keeping Tom safe than Tom was. At the end of the day he couldn’t speak to the Spore nor did it ever speak to him. In reality he figured he was going crazy thinking about the prospect of speaking to some magical infection, but there was something more than just an infection wasn’t there? Tomvi could in fact sense it when Spore was anticipating danger. And not just in the stinging pain that would wash over his body as the infection readied itself to be a shield for him. He could sense when Spore felt threatened through getting thirsty and that awful sense of cottonmouth, and it was undeniable now. So Tomvi took a deep breath and tapped a bit of hydration from his ring.

He felt so dumb for leaving his other metalminds at home. His parents had always told him he had to control his impulses but he never seemed to be able to reel them in. He had a good years worth of hydration compounded back at home and he really figured he had done well with controlling those impulses to have saved so much. He even committed to drinking extra water at work and trying to store it as he could. Sadly this ring was all he took with him, and it was a new one he was trying to fill. As fun as it was to get a new piece of bendalloy and load it up with hydration so he could feed Spore for as long as possible, bendalloy was just so useful for other things too! If he ever wanted to get better with his bendalloy bubbles he couldn't just compound all of the precious metal for hydration right. All that wasnt to mention that he was a big man and a big mans gotta eat right? It wasn't his fault that food tasted so good and sometimes he overdid it with the eating. It wasn’t his fault that it was too easy to enjoy a pie eating contest and offload the new layer of fat into a metalmind. It wasn’t his fault that those metalminds would be useless for anything other than staying in his good old heavyweight fighting shape. 

Dang it, all this thought of food made him so hungry. The ripple of pain coursed through his body again snapping him out of his daydream. He checked the stores of his ring again. Tomvi figured he didn't have more than a single days worth of bonus water stored. He better find a fountain or something. And he needed a sandwich. 

Tomvi looked up, trying to pay attention to the new world around him. Noone had walked by him. In fact the people all seemed to cross the road as they approached him giving him wide space. While his nose wasn’t sure about some of the scents it was being assaulted by, he knew the smell of food anywhere and so he followed that nose to the first promise of chow.

As Tomvi pushed past the bright red and yellow curtains posing as terrible doors he noticed the dining room was sort of split. On one side the diners all appeared so lively and vibrant. On the other they appeared duller and had an aura of despair around them. He started to walk towards the gloomier side of the room to find a place to sit when a rather eccentric man waved him to an empty seat on the other side of the restaurant. Tomvi approached the brightly dressed fellow and took a seat. 

“You look mighty lost friend,” the man said, “ and if I dare say, a bit unwell. What will you have?” 

Tom was shocked by the kindness he was being shown. This man obviously had little fear of the big kolossblooded man. The idea of a meal put his mind at ease but Spore was still on edge, and of course demanding more water. “Whatever is best sir. Thank you. Oh… and water if I may.” Tomvi sat down and tried to ignore all of the eyes that were watching him. No matter how weird these people were, he knew he was the one out of place here. 

The man waved over a waiter and got the meal ordered right away. Once Tomvi had glugged down his first glass of water the man broke the silence again. “The water may be free but when the food gets here its going to cost you your name. You can call me Progg.” 

“Hey Progg. Thanks for this. I’m Tom. Where in Elendell am I right now?” 

Tom waved to the waiter again and requested that the whole pitcher of water be left. He was going to get as much as he could here. He had to drink a lot. It wasn't quite so simple to fill a bendalloy metalmind. It was a marathon. The water wasn’t immediately available for storage but took some time before it was turned to the hydration he so badly needed. He found that the more thirsty he was the more his body would try to turn new water usable so he stored a bit and pushed past the nagging that swept over his entire being as Spore demanded more. 

Finally the food arrived and Tom started to devour it. Progg and Tomvi spent what was easily an hour or more discussing where he was. A place called Alleycity. Tomvi was grateful Progg seemed patient with him at this moment. The colorfully dressed man seemed to be able to sense when Tom would get lost in his thoughts trying to process everything and didn't seem in a rush to finish the conversation at all. 

Eventually the conversation turned as Progg gave in to his true motives. “There is something different about you Tom. Something more. What is it about you that makes you seem all at once so filled with life but also look like you are a half dried reed? Are you in need of help boy?” 

Tom finished his 3rd pitcher of water for the meeting and he could tell this was his payment. His secrets. Nothing was ever truly free. “I guess I am a bit sick is all. Have been for a while.” Tom could hear and see a noticeable shift in the gloomier side of the room as the eavesdroppers tried to distance themselves more from him. “I mean it isn’t contagious or anything. It just won’t go away.” 

Progg seemed unphased by the mention of illness. “Wont go away? So you’ve tried treatment before?” 

“There is no treatment for what I have I can assure you.” 

“Maybe there is maybe there isn’t. There is a camp of healers through the Scadrial districts. With how unfamiliar you are with other forms of investiture I imagine your assessment is rather unreliable. Now I must be going. I am glad I was able to meet you Tom and would encourage you to enjoy your time here in Alleycity.” Progg shook Tomvi’s hand and made his way out of the restaurant with haste. 

Tomvi, feeling the eyes of the other patrons slowly stood up and made his exit too. What Progg had said about healers camps. Was it possible he could be healed? His bendalloy mind now held enough hydration that he should be safe for at least another day or two, and if it were possible to heal Spore right out of himself, then he could finally be free of that need again anyways. 

As he left the restaurant his waiter gave him detailed directions to this “Edgedancer Camp” Progg had mentioned. Maybe his trip here wasn’t the curse he had initially thought it would be. 

Tomvi made it out of what he now new to be New Hallandren and crossed over into what he figured must have been the Mistwarrens. It was nice to be away from that place and into an area that felt a bit more like home. He saw people who looked more like those from Elendell, he even saw a couple of other kolossblooded walking around which was a gift for his eyes. He made some small talk with a group of kids who had been playing and got a tip as to where the best supply shops were in town. He noted them as he moved through and even stepped into one of them to scope out the prices. He was extremely pleased to see that bendalloy was seemingly cheaper in this place but had to pass it up anyways. Even slightly cheaper was still expensive for a man with no money. 

Eventually Tomvi had to bunker down for the night and chose to camp out in front of a beat up old house part way through the Mistwarrens. As bad as he wanted to keep going for this day he really couldn’t justify it given that he had stepped into an alley at quitting time and arrived into another where he had to spend a new day trying to get his bearings straightened out. 

The next morning Tomvi trudged his way through the remainder of the Mistwarrens, making sure to stop in and take what free water he could at a few places along the way, until he saw what he could only assume was the Edgedancer camp. Progg had mentioned that he may be able to find help here, and that they may be willing to help him get on his feet. 

He was shocked by the kindness of the people here and was surprised that the edgedancer who was going to help him was so interested in his story. He tried to explain to them that he had an infection and even described the stupid experiment he had taken part in. He wasnt sure why he shared so much but he did. He never mentioned the fact that the spore had a mind of its own. Why give these kind people any reason to think he was a freak if he could be healed of it in a moment anyways. 

Unfortunately, despite the young mans best efforts Tomvi could feel the healing working all the way until it would stop. The man kept breathing in what he called stormlight and Tom could feel the thirst truly be satiated. He could feel Spore relax but then the young edgedancer would run out of light and the pain would return, the thirst right along with it. Tom expressed his gratitude for the defeated looking youth and got himself up. 

Tomvi left the tent where the edgedancer had made his valiant effort and took a deep breath trying to not give away the devastation he felt again. It was as if he had been infected again. And in his efforts to get healed he worried he had wasted too much time. He spun the cap off of the bottle of water that he had been given and drank the entire thing down. He checked his metalmind again. Less than a days worth of hydration remained and he still had no money to get some new bendalloy to compound with. It was time to get hustling. 

22 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

So have you read the plot summary thread? It gives a nice run down of what’s going on at the moment. Past that, This is a run down of what’s going on in the current episode. If any of that intrigues you, feel free to reach out to that person!

Otherwise, I have a spore-eater that would interact…interestingly with your character.

I think it would be interesting for him to meet another spore-eater. Especially if they have more information than he does. I will read the plot summery and I will just write up a bit of a story for my entry into the Alleyverse. Any prospect of trying to get healed of the spore would be a good start for me and I will probably take up @RoyalBeeMage's offer of doing some RP there too.  Not sure if your spore eater would simply hear talk of someone who couldn't get healed by the edgedancers or what but it could lead to some fun and then I will probably try to see if he can work into anything bigger from there. My night is pretty much up but I will post more in the morning. Probably be able to do quite a bit over the next 2 days and then I will be on sporadically at best for a week. 

Edit: 

@RoyalBeeMage @Koloss17

I realized my first post on the episode I tagged both of you. Might be a bit confusing for scenes. I also know that Koloss17 has a scene set up at the tin street address so I am patient and happy to work with Koloss17s other character if the both of you need to address that scene first.  Tom will likely be around the camp for a while. 

8 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

So there isn’t a proper map, and it’s fair to RP as if any district you want shares an edge with any other district. Notably, Mistkeep is separated by The Corridor from Smokestack, and the Mistwarrens snake the edge of the three as a more impoverished area that don’t particularly belong to any of the three. 
 

Otherwise, it’s intentionally nebulous.

 

If you want to have an intro to things, you are free to do it solo, or I can RP an NPC for you! I’m doing something similar with @Longshot97’s character.

If you could RP me in somehow that would be great. I just wrote up an entry scene where Tomvi's eyes have been assaulted by tragic crayon explosions and his nose is drawing him into a cafe of sorts. 

My plans if done solo were to ultimately have someone with life sense pick up on something being off with him and suggest a hospital pointing him towards the edgedancer camp? But it would be great to get a bit more information about alley city. 

3 minutes ago, RoyalBeeMage said:

so i currently am looking for someone to rp with over at the edgedancer camp. my character is a stoneward who's personality makes him more aligned with the edgedancer philosophy while still valuing the soneward one. 

he works in the edgedancer camp which is designed to help heal many people who are too poor to go to a proper hospital. it might even be the allyverse equilivelnt of a hospital.. I'm not sure. 

since your character has a addiction many heading over to us could be a great idea for your character to try(and fail) to heal from his addiction.

Awesome! I was just working on some solo scenes for him entering into the world. I think if I can find my way to the edgedancer camp that would be awesome. Given he is so cosmere unaware I think I have a decent idea of how to get him over there.  

This may be besides the point but I tried locating some maps of Alleycity and it seems the ones I can find have not been updated to the districts of era 7... If he started in New Hallandren and made his way to the edgedancer camp would he pass through some of the more familure looking Scadrial districts?  I know freeform says I decide but that is a challenge for my brain as I am going to have to draw a map for myself if there isn't more of one to go off of than the fandom sight. 

Also, are there any established biases that he may encounter? Alleyverse question in general, which cultures and districts are snobby and will not like a big slightly gray dude walking around?  Also do I just start a thread for his story and we RP through there or what? 

9 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

@Tamriel Wolfsbaine I’ve shifted your post to this topic, as the collaboration thread is the place you’re looking for ;).

Thanks for that. Navigating this forum will take a bit of time. 

Hey all. I am new to the Alleyverse and am trying to find some folks to meet up with and perhaps work with. My character is Tomvi or Tom for short:

Anyway. I am a bit torn as to where I want him to appear in the Alleyverse. After looking over my brief description of his entrance I think he is coming out into a district that is modernized with some form of modern transportation beyond his era back on Scadrial (He probably went through the portal shortly before the first airships appeared in the basin (Bands of Mourning timeframe). His primary goal is to earn the money to buy some bendalloy... and of course find someone who could supply that. He is currently not in a great mood as his clock is ticking and as much as he needs bendalloy he is a nervous eater, a happy eater, and just in general a total gluten. The man desperately needs a sandwich and some metal to burn. Likely in a vulnerable mood to any who may find use for a desperate 6'8' 300+lb bruiser.  

Any other useful tips to find some RP partners would be great. Or even any good NPCs you can suggest for me to dive into some solo story telling. 

Side note about Tom:

I couldn't think of a single theme song for him. Because he is such a big dude and I want him to be a joy to RP with and not just a brooding loner, but I need to empathize with his plot in life. So there are 2 sides of this man based on how he is doing on the day. When he has what he needs (bendalloy) he is calm and laid back and his sense of humor is a lot more fun to be around. (Song: Amos Moses by Jerry Reed. Amos Moses - Jerry Reed (youtube.com )

However a happy and satiated addict is still an addict. Just like the aether spore inside of him... the thirst will always return. When the memories of his shortened lifespan hit and or he is low on that metal that allows him to compound his hydration, he becomes a different guy. Reckless and moody. (Song: Reckless by Seth Anthony (98) Seth Anthony - Reckless - (Official Music Video) - YouTube )

12 hours ago, Koloss17 said:

I mean, it looks awesome! Easiest approve of my approving career thus far. (I mean obviously it helps that you sought my council before posting this, but ya know )

Thanks. I didn't want to post anything too outlandish but also didn't want to bore you with a whole backstory I would have to repost over here haha. Looking forward to starting up. 

Okay this is my first character for the Alleyverse.  Thanks to @Koloss17 for pointing me in the right direction! 

Tomvi Amidate 

Here is a fun couple of scenes to act as a flashback of his backstory and entrance into the Alleyverse! 

Edit: 

A picture of Tomvi provided by me feeding a great description into a totally average AI haha. 

36 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think yes, as you don't need to create a fake source of investiture to feed on, you need to suppress some parts of your spirit web, mainly the Connection to an Aether and spores, so at most you would need to overcome the resistance your soul (because it's a bit more invested), but that's something that Forgery can do easily. I think you can do that and it won’t require a lot of investiture. 

How do you suppose the aether will react when that day is over?  Do you think it will demand all that hydration and kill the host quicker or do you think this could be a legitimate option to lengthen out the lifespan of a spore eater?  Still allowing them to miss a day of the stamp from time to time. 

14 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I think it's similar to Forging yourself to be bonded with a spren and becoming a Radiant - a sentient entity is in control, it can break the forced bond at will and it would be really hard to forged something like this - plus it would require a ton of investiture, just like in the case of Forging yourself to become a Mistborn. 

  Reveal hidden contents

DTF_20170515

Why refrigerate food when you can just stamp spoiled food so that it was stored properly before?

Aurora_Fatalis

You'll have to ask Brandon how that'd interact with gastric acid breaking down the stamp. Or how porous/loose material interacts with stamps in the first place.

Come to think of it... There's a WoB saying the Nightwatcher could change your species, but have a hard time making a spren bond to you. So... could the Nightwatcher turn you Scadrian and make you eligible for Allomantic powers? Or does the Nightwatcher's boons operate on soulstamp principles?

Hell, let's say you bought a vial of the wrong metal on your field trip to Sel. Could you pay a Forger to stamp the vial into being a vial of the right metal (it's believable that you would check before such an important trip) and then drink the metal contained in the vial to fuel your Allomancy?

Brandon Sanderson

All right, all right. Let's see... /u/Aurora_Fatalis, changing metals around with other forms of Investiture is generally going to work, according to how I view the magic right now. The power is there, you just need to align the matter the right way. So forging new metals: not too difficult. This is because Allomancy isn't actually using Investiture in the metals, but using it as a key to get power from somewhere else.

Forging a sword to be a Shardblade, however, would be very, very difficult for multiple reasons. The most obvious one is that the Investiture required would be enormous. A Shardblade is a highly-Invested object, with its own self-aware soul.

If you could overcome the initial resistance invested objects have to being influenced by other magics (something that Forgery is particularly good at doing anyway) you'd theoretically be able to change Shardblade/spren's personality like you could a person's.

Fooling the magic via Connection and Identity is not so hard, under the right circumstances, so making a Forger into an Elantrian (or an Allomancer) for a short time is plausible. Making yourself into a Radiant, however, would be more difficult--because the limitations placed on that magic have to do with persuading a sapient being you are worth the bond.

Aurora_Fatalis

How about regular food? If I stamp a pineapple pizza into a pepperoni pizza and eat it, what nutrients do I end up with?

Brandon Sanderson

The way I have it working now, I believe (though I'd have to do some double-checking, as it's been a while since I've been working on Sel) soulstamps are more fragile than things like Aons, and it would be very hard to eat something with one without breaking it. But assuming you could, you'd get nutrients from what it had become--but those would change back once the stamp broke or ran out.

It is possible to go so far down this rabbit hole, however, that the chemistry of Forging (like the physics of Allomancy) it just can't make sense any more. So be aware.

Oversleep

With things like Stamping metals for Allomancy, you have said that it'd be possible for short time, but then burning it would break the Seal and metal would revert back.

I guess it would be similar with food, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, that's the big problem with Forging. Getting the stamp to stay in place once you start to change the object that has been stamped.

General Reddit 2018 (Aug. 27, 2018)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Aneesh

If there's a Forger like Shai who plausibly had an opportunity to ingest lerasium and become Mistborn, but she passed it up, could she create a stamp that makes her temporarily a Mistborn?

Brandon Sanderson

She would have to have access to enough Investiture to make that happen. The stamp saying, "Hey, I'm a Mistborn!" doesn't actually give her the Investiture to do that. She could rewrite her past so that she took that bead. She would not actually be able to use the power, until she got an infusion of Investiture, which could be done with a stamp in the right manner, but most of the time you're gonna have to have some external source. Basically you're gonna have to take a hit of Investiture, a large amount of it, and then use the stamp, and then it will feed on that to change you into basically any of the other magics.

Aneesh

Stormlight?

Brandon Sanderson

If you could get a hit of Stormlight, that'd work. The problem is, Stormlight's not easy to get off of Roshar, and it still is technically keyed. You could get it a lot more easily-- Stormlight would work fairly well, but what you really want is some pure, unkeyed Dor. That stuff, you could do all kinds of things with. But, you know, it's kinda dangerous. But that's the stuff you're gonna want, or something like unto it.

Dragonsteel Mini-Con 2021 (Nov. 22, 2021)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Questioner

What if you Soulstamped a city?

Brandon Sanderson

Soulstaped a city... So if you're a really good Forger-- It is possible to do things like that, but it requires a lot of work and time. Just one thing to keep in mind with Soulstamps, and anything that does this, rewriting your spiritweb, right, like, requires Invesiture. A lot of Investiture. And so, for instance, what Shai can do is really cool, but what an Elantrian can do is gonna look a lot more dramatic, right? Shooting a column of fire, you would say "Which takes more power, making the wall have flowers on it or shooting a column of fire?" Making the wall have flowers takes way more Investiture. It's a lot easier to pull off some dramatic effects with others, but the actual changing of the soul and overwr-- ...So just keep in mind the extent-- This is why you don't see Shai Forge it so the whole building disappears. Right? And stuff like this. Which is not outside of reason for a couple of Elantrians with the right program to put into place. But I mean effectively-- They could blow it up, essentially, that's what they would do

Bystander

Make a new hole, rather than making one that has existed.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. Exactly. Do keep in mind, people like to ask, you've probably seen people ask, "Could I rewrite myself to be a Knight Radiant?" Right? WELL... There are certain things that you just-- you can't fake without enough energy that it becomes impractical. Usually what I use as an example to that is: Yes, we can turn hydrogen into gold, if we wanted to. Right? We can do that! It might take more energy than the earth creates in an entire year, but we can do that.

I get a lot of questions with this that I'm like "is it possible?" and I'm like "Guys, is it possible?" ...You should probably be like, "Is it possible, with reasonable amounts of energy provided by one Invested person".

Arcanum Unbounded Chicago signing (Dec. 6, 2016)

 

Moreover Aethers are more like god metals, a physical manifestation of investiture and Forging or Soulcasting god metals is extra hard, so this idea might be impossible as well, due to the nature of Aethers you grow as a Spore Eater.

  Reveal hidden contents

Overlord Jebus

All the physical manifestations--solid physical manifestations we've seen of Investiture has been metallic. It's been atium, lerasium, Shardblades. Is that just a coincidence?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it's intentional.

Overlord Jebus

It's intentional so we're not going to see Investiture wood or Investiture plastic?

Brandon Sanderson

Right, I mean technically, like, what do you call the aethers? Those are not metal. But I do it as metal intentionally.

Questioner

They could be a metal with very low boiling point.

Brandon Sanderson

*sarcastically* Yes, the vine ones are--

Overlord Jebus

Well we've had liquid, we've had gas, the solids all seem to be metallic, so.

Brandon Sanderson

That is intentional, it's just one of those little laws of the cosmere, that's not meant to mean anything

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

ninch

Could a person Soulcast more atium and lerasium if they had a bead?

Brandon Sanderson

No. Investiture messes things like that up.

General Signed Books 2014 (April 29, 2014)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Haylo_Alex

You've said before that Soulcasting can't create atium or lerasium which makes sense since they're made of Investiture from other Shards. But could a Soulcaster, perhaps in the proximity of Dalinar's perpendicularity, provide enough Stormlight to Soulcast something into Honor's Godmetal (tanavastium)? What about Cultivation's metal, or an alloy of both, like Shardblade metal?

Brandon Sanderson

So, creating a God Metal is not something that's done easily in the Cosmere. HOWEVER, it is possible. You'd need a ton of Investiture, and being near Dalinar's perpendicularity is unlikely to be enough. I'd say Soulcasting, or something akin to it, has the means to do this if it could obtain the proper power charge.

Footnote: The questioner is mentioning this WoB.
General Reddit 2020 (Sept. 4, 2020)

 

Of course it does. You become Invested, you grow Aethers out of your body, which is investiture, a body of an Aether. Normally that investiture is provided to you by an Aether directly for water, but just like Forging yourself into a Mistborn, this doesn't work. You need to provide a lot of external investiture for that. 

That's not how Allomancy works. Metals are a key, but they are not converted into investiture - they are a key for investiture being pulled from the SR which tells it what shape to take. 

Do you suppose stamping out the existance of the infection would be easier?  For the day at least? 

44 minutes ago, EdgedancerJacob said:

Thanks for this context! I think if this is the case, then yes it could hypothetically work. 

The big caveat, in my opinion, is that it would be very tricky to make it "take." The only type of person I could see this specifically working on is a person living near MaiPon on Sel (as the stamps are less effective as they go further away) but has been to Lumar (in order for the person to have had an opportunity to be infected by the aethers). 

On the other hand I think soulstamps could be a legit way to stop the spore from killing you.  Restamp yourself everyday to make it like it was your first day with the spore. Benefits minus downsides. 

Finding the right person to do it would absolutely be difficult. 

25 minutes ago, EdgedancerJacob said:

I think it depends on whether or not the powers associated with being a Spore Eater require Investiture. If they do require Investiture, I think allowing this through Stamps would be giving them too much power. 

I don't know that it does. It requires water. I assume the investiture needed would be to rewrite your history to have recently consumed the spore and be infected with it. From there you will feel thirsty for the day but with it being a day at a time sort of deal, and if you write it to be within the first weeks of being infected, I assume you would see a relatively low craving for more water while the spore would do everything in its power to protect you... at only the cost of the daily water. 

Once the stamp wears off the infection is gone and the spore no longer lives there siphoning water from the host. 

I don't know if aethers work based on water the same way allomancy works based on metal, where it is a key being converted into investiture.  I believe the Aethers would view themselves as seperate from the typical Shards and their magical ways.  

If investiture is universal for all things magic feeling then perhaps this would be.  It is a dang powerful (defensively) ability for relatively low cost. If you simply need to double your water intake for the day and the spore can stop bullets then it should work yeah?  

Soulstamps to create allomancers wouldn't take the place of needing to burn metal. Just needing to rewrite the SDNA to have that alteration.  If a sporeeaters past is as simple as being infected with a spore then it should be fairly simple. Powerful for not dying... couldn't do a ton else with it. 

If you could do soul stamps could you stamp yourself to be infected by an aetherspore?  If the effects only last the day would this then be all of the benefits of being nearly unkillable without the downside of the aether trying to kill you past that 24 hours?  

1 hour ago, Treamayne said:

I'll leave RP comments to those better suited to discuss them . . . 

  Reveal hidden contents

My TTRPG experiences are old - started in 1982 with TMNT and other Strangeness - played/GMed mostly Palladium and V&V through the 80s, Played/STed mostly WoD in the 90s* - nothing since about '97.

However, I did want to chime in on one thing:

I do not think that Sand Mastery is an Aether, nor is it mimicking an Aether - but I do think that Sandmastery and Aethers both use the Luhel Bond (and because Sandmastery uses a Luhel bond - stories about that art likely inspired Tress' "Bone Aether" myth because it was a Luhel bond, so they assumed it must be an Aether).

That said, White Sand Omnibus does not give direct correlations, but does mention/show that the amount of Mastered Sand exponentially increases the rate of Water Consumption (controlling three ribbons drained Kenton's water much faster than 3x control of a single ribbon). So, I do not think that a single rate will apply, because bond strength*, bond efficiency, work performed, and qty of material all affected the rate of water consumption while mastering sand (e. g. using three ribbons to create a sand doppleganger did not drain water as fast as using three ribbons to lift the rubble of the broken construction site). 

*Note: Overmastery (if you survive) increased bond strength in White Sand, a similar mechanism was heavily implied with Tress (but obviously was not called "overmastery"). 

Okay. This is good info for me to jump off at. I like the idea that usage is not linear but exponentially increases as you build more.  

Overmastery is basically savantism?  Or seperate?  I think that could be a good way to "level" and gain an edge as you practice more. Now I just need to get a good name for it. Overmastery will probably get plugged in for the time being. 

14 minutes ago, Koloss17 said:

So what RP system are you thinking of balancing this for? I’m not really the best person to ask about this, as I am not super experienced with a variety of different systems, but if it is DM led, asking them about a solid conversion rate might be useful. I suspect that it depends on the aetherbound on how much volume of substance can be created with the same volume of water. However, a standardized “gallon/pint/whatever of water=X square feet/meters of Aether” could be a solution. It can be a bit clunky and requiring imagination, but that’s what happens with something as versatile as an aetherbound.

 

Now, I feel that I would be a bad moderator if I didn’t use this as an opportunity to plug something.

Have you considered joining the Alleyverse RP? I’m the head mod there, and it is a collaborative free form forum RP right here on the Shard! It is based in the Alleyverse, a dimension where all of the different planets and magic systems of Brandon Sanderson (even non-Cosmere!) can slip into. It’s a blast, and we always welcome newcomers! It’s not the same as a TTRPG, but it is very fun if you like the storytelling aspect of roleplay! As an example of the potential here, I currently have an edgedancer that has killed her spren and has since been parasitized by a midnight spore. The possibilities are endless!

I have looked at it and should really build something up. I was thinking the bendalloy / aetherbound. I just don't know about balancing it. Its really hard to balance stuff when I know my underlying motives are to pair it with feruchemy for displays magnitudes beyond what a normal being could pull off. Feruchemy feels a bit cheaty. My personal dream combo of aetherbound + bendalloy compounding feels absurdly busted... but I also use it to justify getting as close to Venom in the cosmere as possible (midnight obviously).

As for rules. I want to take ideas from a D&D sort of structure and then I will shift them around to apply to MAG as well. I know the systems are vastly different but trying to find a reasonable starting spot for one would give me a solid starting spot for both. 

I need to look more at Sandmastery as well to see if there is correlation as I believe that, if not an aether, it could certainly be mimicking one.

But I am curious what peoples thoughts are on how much aether could be created and manipulated per a unit of water?   I know this is purely speculative but I am trying to create rules for a homebrew aetherbound and want to hear opinions. 

I was planning on doing a charge sort of system. Would start with charges and the charges would be able to be refilled via drink and rests. 

Trying to see how much a person with a normal days consumption of water should be able to produce and do. 

My thoughts are that the growth of the aether is the bulk of the water consumption where as maintaining it would be negligible when touching and ramp up gradually at range. 

We didn't see twinsoul do a ton with his aether on his own that seemed beyond what should be standard.  

Looking at something like an artificer I also thought it would be fun to include a way for aetherbound to create larger items that would be able to stay in storage assuming they are in an appropriate setting.  Creating armor and then using charges over a rest or during play to repair it is one idea that comes to mind.  

Progression would probably look like the character being able to use and draw from consumed water better or faster.  Potentially becoming more efficient in terms of growing more Aether for the same water.  Possibly growing the bond and progressing towards the Aether being able to work and steal a charge or two on its own without you needing to grow it. 

Really just curious for ideas at the moment. I would love to hear what thoughts are on how much aether can even be grown via an average hydrated person before death.  

Also... perhaps more benefits to walking a line of dehydration? Like the closer you get to the end the more desperate and powerful your attempts and efforts are?  

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I'll throw out some random @'s to see if this can grab a bit of traction.  @Trusk'our @Koloss17 

56 minutes ago, Isilel said:

@Tamriel Wolfsbaine:

Soulcasters, being spren, are likely more difficult to transport off Roshar than stormlight. We know that this problem will be eventually solved for bonded Radiant spren, but soulcasters not having a bond might make it harder still.

There are also not many of them and most are severely limited in what  they can produce. While there may be a couple that can make gold, cadmium et al. are extremely unlikely. The devices also don't seem to allow for soulcasting at range that Radiants can employ. 

For sure there are differences.  And that is a solid point about the spren being trapped inside. 

As I read the coppermind it appears that there was one famous for bronze. But does that mean it was only able to soulcast things into bronze?  

I was always under the impression that if it was based on the essence. If a soulcaster is of the foil essence it is all metal... perhaps the owner of that famous soulcaster just really really liked bronze or whatever.  It also says it is more common for a soulcaster to be built for 3x the same essence. And for this discussion the only one that would be targeted is a 3x foil essence. The more amethyst the better for metalborn. 

I do think transporting it would be a challenge... although if the ghostbloods gathered the proper metalborn and placed them on Roshar to fill universal metalminds that were transported. Much higher risk there... 

But the entire goal as of now is to package up stormlight for transport between worlds. I think once that gets figured out and the radiants learn to move from world to world then the Ghostbloods will probably be very close behind. 

There are difficult hurdles to get over but if they did this would be a worth while endeavor to work on for Scadrial as a whole. 

10 hours ago, Treamayne said:

I think this is an incorrect premise, in case that affects your theory. WoBs:

  Hide contents

 

Re: 

I think intent plays a crucial role here - in WoK we see Jasnah specifically thinking about the boulder's mass (and quizzing Shallan about it), but no indications that she considered mass at all with the alley criminals. Either way, the amount of consumed Stormlight is unlikely to fluctuate much, since it's about applying investiture to the Spiritweb and changing that, so that the change cascades to the Cognitive and Physical. There is a difference between Stormlight Consumption between Fabrial and Radiant Soulcasting (and Radiants in different oath levels of investiture efficiency) and I think the variance of mass/volume is more likely a factor in fabrial soulcasting, since we see Kaza become more efficient as a Smoke Essence Savant (able to change a larger amount alone than was shown in WoR to require multiple fabrials working together to accomplish).

It may also be possible, that part of the equation is starting and ending states Gas to/from Solid seems more likely to be mass related, while Solid to/from a different solid more likely to be volume. Shallan's "Goblet to Blood" Soulcasting in WoK also seemed more "mass related" in that the amount of blood created was frighteningly high, but since the description of both the starting goblet size and the actual amount of blood created are both nebulous, it is hard to tell. 

I appreciate the WoBs. I may be wrong in that the metal will never run out.  But I don't see any downside to the fact that having access to thousands of pounds of precious metals at a time will make mass distribution of insanely powerful universal metalminds possible.  

Soulcasters have been used for centuries to produce rations for armies and such. Scadrial can ramp that up by soulcasting bendalloy (which from the sound of it is at least, if not more, valuable than gold). You find someone who can compound and fill universal bendalloyminds and you can supply months and possibly years worth of rations and water in the form of metal, without the cost of bendalloy nor the need to mine and produce it. 

Soulcasting destroys all gathering and production needs for all metals. 

We don't know enough about medallions to make any really big claims but it would appear that this is a possibility for everything already without soulcasting. Soulcasting would just make the process magnitudes fast and more reliable. 

I have a dream where you have elite squads who carry around a ring of different medallions each filled to the brim with all of the essentials.  Soulcasting, starting with a gold compounder for spike production to make the other compounders necessary, would make all of this process pretty gravy. 

4 hours ago, hwiles said:

This is an infuriating response, I know, but...it seems to depend on context.

For example, Jasnah turns a human man to crystal and loses no volume in that transformation. Clearly, mass was increased that time. If she had turned him to wood, mass would have been lost.

She also turns a boulder to smoke (which is technically a combination of soot, air, and water vapor not a pure substance...) with explosive results; it's not conclusive, but it's implied that mass is preserved, otherwise she should have ended up with a simple puff and cloud of soot, not an explosive transition. It stands to reason that a massive cloud of air could be turned to stone of a much smaller volume, creating a vacuum, though this hasn't been confirmed yet I think.

Best guess? The proportion of mass/volume that gets preserved during a transformation is variable and depends on the phases of matter being dealt with and possibly also the intent and perception of the operator.

For example, Wax can perceive multiple steel lines for complex metal assemblies where most coinshots would see only one because he thinks about the objects differently. If Jasnah schooled herself in believing in her soul that volume should always be the property that is conservative, then she might be able to evaporate boulders from existence with much less violent results (totally speculative).

Yeah. I think Brandon sometimes does things by the rule of cool and you end up with an inconsistency that just happens to exist. A violent reaction to something that has been done thousands of times before for the purpose of a cool visual for a scene is not unheard of.  

Perhaps there is something different about a spoulcasting fabrial where it is volume that stays constant and mass changes where as being a radiant with access to the surge of transformation allows you to get more destructive and beneficial uses out of it.  Similarly to how medallions seem to play by slightly different rules than a ferring with the same ability.  

I think that is how I will head cannon it for now.  

Soulcasting fabrial is default to maintain volume specifically. Soulcasting surge can modify intent for more cinematic and dramatic effects.  

I have been thinking about how soulcasting works. In my mind it is always been volume stays a constant and then mass changes based on what you are soulcasting. Hence the use of wax and soulcasting for structures and such. It seems far to complicated to be that mass stays the constant and volume is variable. 

I have also been thinking of how powerful this could be in the hands of someone like Kelsier. We know the Ghostbloods had a soulcaster but what about when they not only have a soulcaster but also a means by which to transport stormlight and unlock its uses on other planets? 

There are already a ton of implications between Scadrial tech and metalborn being able to supercharge totally unlocked metalminds in the future. But Scadrial is going to be so limited by metal eventually. It is not a renewable resource from what I gather and the implementation of compounding fueling technology in the future could find Scadrial running low on metals all together. 

Lets take Gold as our example and as, what I would personally be targeting first if building an army.  Miles had to turn to a life of crime to feed his compounding habits. Gold is expensive. And it is limited. It would probably be easier to create a small factory of compounders to fill gold medallions than it would to supply the needed gold to make use of it. But that is where a soulcaster and some good full gems could come in really handy. 

Now I need to ask another question as the answer to this could really make a difference in the viability of this: 

Do soulcasters use up stormlight based on the volume or the mass that they are changing?  Gold is massive... If it is mass based then the stormlight is going to stretch less. If it is volume based then we are in the system hacking business! Traditionally Soulcasters have been used to supply armies and even help with building up structures. The coppermind even points out "Soulcasting is useful in engineering and construction. Many items or buildings on Roshar are first constructed out of light and easy-to-shape materials, such as wood or wax, and then Soulcast into more durable substances."  Though it doesn't specify the amount of stormight to change an entire building into anything else. 

Soulcasting doesn't really change anything on Roshar because the fuel to run soulcasting is only used by such a small % of people. 

In the hands of the Ghostbloods? The things you can soulcast ARE the fuel for the magic users. The fact that soulcasters can be used in combat makes me think that they must be able to soulcast multiple people on the same gemstone. It would be awfully ineffective to need to change out gemstones every kill or three... and it must be efficient enough to make it such taboo to use in combat and even forbidden. But what would a single person turned to gold mean for people of Scadrial? 

Getting less gruesome lets look at a traditional building material used on Roshar, wax. A cubic foot of wax weighs just under 60 lbs. That same cubic foot of gold weighs more than 1200lbs. That is 19200oz and at ~$2300 / oz a single cubit foot of wax turned into gold would hold a value in todays market of $44million! 

Not sure how much Miles stole and burnt in his compounding but that is a single cubit foot! I am sure that a single gem in a soulcaster could be worth billions and billions of dollars in the weight of gold. 

If the soulcaster could only change gold the entire look of Scadrials military might changes with only a gemstones worth of stormlight. 

Gold can heal the spiritweb and Miles could have become a spike machine! The amount of gold needed for this is trivialized thanks to a single soulcaster with a perfect gem or two. 

Now you take a couple of compounders and outfit your entire military with gold bracelets like we saw Wayne get in bands of mourning.... multiples of them because compounders paired with a nicroburst could do this insanely fast and with very little difficulty! 

Now you could even create spike machines out of other metalborn as well. Give a metalborn the ability to burn gold plus a massive amount of healing from a prefilled goldmind and spike them for new spikes too. 

The entire limitation behind the metalborn is that metal is a precious resource. But a single soulcaster that lets you soulcast metals could change the entire way the metallic arts function in the cosmere... not by changing them but by suddenly removing the natural resource that is metal. 

I also know that they say you cannot get perpetual motion, and the existance on stormlight only on Roshar does limit this process to what stormlight is available. But the minimal amounts of metal to make use of allomancy and compounding really shine through when you think of soulcasters being used to create buildings and feed armies. A single gem could be pushed pretty dang far I think. Billions of dollars per gem worth of metals. I dont know enough about electricity or its production to say anything beyond this... but what of brass compounding and harmonium primer cubes used to release that heat inside of generators?

This is a step above what I have already thought about... but as my mind wanders... We already see other magics converging on Scadrial. Down the road we have potential of seeing Aetherbound fighting along side metalborn and with a single soulcaster plus a bendalloy compounder you could see medallions and spikes dolled out to aetherbound who have access to years and possibly decades of hydration trapped in metalminds... plus a gold medallion. 

TLDR: I hope this is a reason Kelsier has agents on Roshar. I really want to see what can be unlocked on Scadrial with the availability of metals becoming a non factor.  I know militaries already get what they need but the whole infrastructure of needing to transport and acquire the materials would be trivialized down to whatever is lying around that has a decent amount of volume.