Tamriel Wolfsbaine
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Posts posted by Tamriel Wolfsbaine
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2 hours ago, CtrlAltDepressed said:
This thread got me thinking about the interaction between shardblades and awakened objects.
We know that shardblades cut the soul and not living flesh, and we know that breath create an artificial soul for the object.
If a shardblade cuts a piece of awakened cloth, what happens? I can forsee a LOT of possibilities, some more likely than others. For the sake of argument the cloth was awakened with 1 breath.
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cloth is not cut, just like a person, and the breath connection is severed
- breath is recoverable because shardblades dont destroy investiture
- breath is not recoverable because the connection to the awakener has been severed (breath without permission?)
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cloth is cut into two pieces with half a breath in each
- follows the command just as two pieces
- breaks command because identity of cloth is now different
- cloths 'soul' is cut, so half of the cloth cant act on the command, but the breath stays and it tries its best to complete the command
What do you all think? Given the scene we have from vasher using awakening when training kaladin, I think its possible to see this interaction, and potentially even likely.
Well the specification of 1 breath makes this difficult to say.
I don't know that there is any command that allows cloth to do anything with a single breath only.
We see Zahel use awakening to fight Kaladin and Kaladin does use Syl to cut the cloths. He says they are still wriggling around on the floor post cut.
So certainly not all of the breath is lost.
I imagine that you would lose some of the breath with each strike. Similarly to metalminds being able to withstand an amount of hits before being destroyed as well.
How much? I don't know that we will ever get the numbers. But Brandon suggests that they are... however, he writes all of the action scenes before calculating the amount of stormlight or breaths or metals that are needed to make them suspenseful.
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cloth is not cut, just like a person, and the breath connection is severed
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2 hours ago, Argenti said:
I mean, possibly, but the issue was whether or not the lifeless would still be lifeless. If it's still lifeless, then you can't awaken it further; it's "alive." Just giving it more breath might work, but I'm skeptical. Shoving a bunch of breath into a lifeless with no command is like throwing breath into your scarves without a command. Maybe it will give it the oomph it needs to work, but it also might develop a personality.
TurtletheFlsh
What would happen if you created a Lifeless with more Breath then is necessary? Would they be more or completely human or just a Lifeless that's holding more Breath?
Brandon Sanderson
Lifeless with more Breath are an interesting situation. It's quite possible for the BREATH to start taking on a personality, much like a Cognitive Shadow, related to the individual. Whether or not it is actually them, though, is a big question. Note, this doesn't always happen. Often, dumping a lot of Breath in them is like sticking it in an inanimate object with no Command.
If it's no longer lifeless (which I think is likely), then the pseudo soul it had would have the same effect as a soul-cast person; awakening them would be easier, maybe working worse since it was less investigated upon simulcasting, but also better because its breaths stick together. You might have a really good chance if you then Forge the soul cast lifeless to never be soul cast, which would be probably very easy. But at that point, it might just be simpler to Essence Mark the lifeless to make them a super soldier in their former life, which, since they're less invested and more stagnant, would be easier.
I didn't think about potentially forging.
Can you forge a human who was soulcast into metal to "never have been soulcast" and then turn them lifeless with 1 breath and have it stick the next day?
How does forging work in that regard? Would anything that happens while it is in its forged state be lost when it reverts? If you had a broken leg and attempted to forge yourself back before the broken leg and while in that state you tapped a bunch of gold... would your leg be healed when your forging wears off or would you go back to having a broken leg and simply wasted the stored health of a gold mind?
3 minutes ago, Quantus said:The stone is not Awakened to move. It is crafted with seems at the joints. The Lifeless inside requires additional breaths to be able to effectively move and fight with all the Stone Armor on the bones.
So basically the breaths act as the muscle and connective tissue holding the mass together and giving it mobility.
As @alder24 has pointed out in the past armor wearing lifeless may be better than the phantoms because they have the muscle mass and connective tissue to power themselves and wear the armor.
Bones can't move on their own they need breath to give them mobility.
However, I am curious if breath could be infused into the lifeless in a way to keep it retrievable to allow them the strength to move around faster and be stronger in a suit of heavy heavy armor...
Perhaps having cloth and or rope... or even leather holding joints of a suit of armor together being awakened to give it strength would do this better...
Having breath be retrievable is a big deal when thinking about a pet class archetype.... which I really view the awakener as being. Buffing themselves at a higher cost but able to bring forth a bunch of pets and items that, when used together, would really dominate the action economy of a scene.
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Thanks guys. I forgot those WoBs exact phrasing.
I guess the best bet is still to just coat the lifeless in wax... have them move around a bit to figure out the joints needed, and then soulcast the wax into near seamless armor.
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I want to ask about awakening lifeless that have been soulcast... or creating soulcast lifeless.
Does the Awakening have to happen pre or post the soulcaster changing the target into the desired material?
If I want to have a big, heavy, hard lifeless made out of Tungsten: would I need to awaken it and then change it to Tungsten and then infuse it with more breath to make it mobile? Or would soulcasting a lifeless into Tungsten kill the lifeless and be a waste of breath?
If I soulcast a corpse into Tungsten and then attempt to awaken it... does it act as a corpse or a thing? Would it follow the rules of the 9th heightening being needed to awaken metal or because it is a corpse and you are awakening a lifeless with a 1 breath command does it treat it like a corpse and ignore the fact that it is made of metal now?
I think the order in which it happens is going to make a large difference in how possible this is going to be.
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17 minutes ago, Treamayne said:
It's not about hotwiring Neural paths, it's that Kandra do not have a central nervous system at all - so their "thinking" is more like WAN distributed processing, and the "brain" moving each muscle or muscle group is actually part of that muscle/group. WoB:
zas678
TenSoon wonders, and I wonder too- How can kandra think and be sentient without brains? Doesn't the body need a physical coordinator to relay between the Physical and Cognitive realm? Or do the spikes do a good enough job with that?
Brandon Sanderson
I imagine kandra having a non-centralized nervous system, with brain power spread through their bodies. Well, non-centralized is probably the wrong way to say it. They have lobes of thought and memory attached to muscles here and there, and don't have a single 'brain.' They certainly have brain-like material, though.
So what exactly do you suppose the benefit to a blessing of presence is for the kandra? I always thought it was like some passive benefits of copper and zinc feruchemy (same benefits) but it sounds like their ability to think and move is better than zinc anyways.
Of course that is assuming that is the only reason bleeder was functional.
I think steels bullet time is more than adequate to function at lower levels.
I think that feruchemy does a good job at protecting itself and making itself functional at lower rates. For instance, Bleeder really didn't have to be moving at such a massive pace. To be able to get from one side of a room to another is only a few strides. At a run it could be covered in a couple seconds. If you quadruple your speed you could get multiple shots off while the noise from the first one is still sounding.
I am willing to bet that all feruchemical enhancements can pretty well compensate at a tripling and quadrupling of an attribute. We don't see feruchemists choose to just double or triple or quadruple anything really. Its usually massive usages at once leaving a ton of waste. Bleeder could be a blurr in doors at 80mph and be functioning nearly totally normally.
When we see feruchemy limiting what the magic can compensate for is when the user is magnifying things far beyond what they are normally. 10s of times stronger or 100s of times heavier... considering Wax can and often does store upwards of 6,000,000 pounds worth of weight (for a second) his tapping to break floors and crush buildings is him weighing 100s if not 1000s of times more than he usually does. I don't know that he could take a step if he wanted to but the protection is still functioning.
To make steel scary strong you don't need to be 37x faster than normal. Marasi moving at that rate could have slaughtered every person on that mountain before they could blink. She had a very specific goal... get to Wax and save him. But it only lasted a couple of seconds. Perhaps her need for zinc here is totally warranted but she is also tapping 37x or more of typical speed.
At 4 times her normal speed she would be a menace and the spiritual realm would not have had to do nearly as much heavy lifting to keep her functional.
I would say steel runners are still really strong at that estimation. Storing 20% for a minute could allow you 10 seconds of double your normal speed likely. Counting diminishing returns I would say even if 10 minutes at 20% storage only bought you 10 seconds at 4x normal speed it is more than enough to kill a room full of bad guys before they really realize you are doing it.
Just watch hema fencing at 200% normal speed... you almost can't see the strikes. At 400% normal speed the fencers would be a blur.
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4 hours ago, therunner said:
Also, Bleeder is Kandra not human, deriving anything about experience of Steelrunner from her is flawed
I was just thinking about this. If it is not already on the list of things a kandra could do then this is evidence for a new trick. @Trusk'our could a kandra hot wire their neuro pathways to replicate Feruchemical zinc to a point where bleeder is able to act and think while using steel? She clearly thinks fast enough that looking into Wayne's bendalloy bubble she was able to recognize they were sped up roughly the same speed. (Which shows how fast she had to be thinking and moving considering Wayne's bubble has slowed down shockwaves enough for Wax to process an escape route as the explosion is going off in the same room...)
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1 hour ago, Duxredux said:
Steelrunners are a severely nerfed version of the Flash anyway, since as Brandon puts it, limitations are more interesting than powers.
This is what I always loved about his books. The limitations built in endless speculation for my mind to consider random pairings of powers and synergies. Then he wrote SA and I felt the magic of his magic systems being interesting thanks to their limitations drain out of my body. Truly a sad day... but I needed more cosmere.
Anyways back to the topic at hand. I agree fully that F steel is balanced. What is not balanced is compounding steel. But compounding anything is not balanced so to nerf F steel to the ground because you need to solve compounding is a really poor approach to finding balance.
I stand by the thought that being a speedster is just not practical in most situations in life. You might be the best duelist in the cosmere but it just doesn't really do a ton for you! Super speed without other enhancements is a recipe for disaster. For writing purposes or gameplay purposes a speedster is going to build more enemies than he does friends while using that speed. The nice part is you could lean into the super speed as a reason to not try to improve physical aspects of yourself and just focus solely on the social aspects of life.
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42 minutes ago, Returned said:
It's also worth noting that a lot of time has passed between the end of Warbreaker and RoW, so it's likely that Vivenna is a much more skilled Awakener than before, and that the "cloth that is an extension of my body" genre of Commands is one that Vasher was actively refining before he and Vivenna were especially close. The "act as my hands and grip what I must" type of Command is pretty abstract and could cover a lot of situations, including those unforseen by the Awakener, without needing time and presence of mind to Awaken the clothing in a flash during the heat of battle.
What we see of Vasher's cloak and, separately, his tassels suggests to me that the best use of Awakened clothing in a fight is a flexible Command related to parrying and entangling opponents. Years of additional practice and refinement would, I expect, yield a pretty incredible and responsive style of combat impossible without an Awakened garment. I imagine the surface of the cloak rippling and stiffening to turn blows aside or bleed off their momentum, tripping or disarming or blinding enemies, actively hiding the position and motion of Vivenna's sword, and allowing her to resist Invested attacks/effects at a minimum. And I think that potential applications go beyond those, or anything we've yet seen or imagined.
I was watching the beginning fight scenes of Jet Li's Fearless and the saber fighter really stood out as a potential example of what parrying with a wrapped arm could do. If you amplify that further through more intricate commands that could definately be a big deal. I am sure you are correct that the command has evolved over time.
I like to think that the breaths... become better at doing what you want. It isn't just the awakener and the commands but their connection to the breaths and the combined experience of eachother that allows for really complex commands such as that.
Good points.
Now I am curious what an awakeners loadout might look like as far as tools for it.
Being a large fan of Fandabi Dozi and his channel I have always pictured an awakener with some large greatkilt and wraps around the arms and legs as well as some good old fashion rope(s) and perhaps... if lucky enough an awakened sword and some flasks of ichor alcohol.
I think it may also be wise to carry a few ink sticks that can be dissolved in water to re-dye any and all awakened clothing... being able to awaken it in your free time and then dye it again for last minute transfers and re awakening that may be needed during travels.
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12 hours ago, Trusk'our said:
I've been bothered by this for a while; Steelrunners are just too powerful.
Even moving with a 20-50% extra boost to physical speed is a sizable edge in combat, but the true upper bound of steel Feruchemy (with no other supporting powers) is something like Mach 5 at sea level.
That's 3,836 miles per hour, and since the fastest person who's ever been recorded ran about 27.5 mph (and only briefly at that), you can Tap your steel to become 139.5 times faster than him. . .
I don't know about anyone else, but that feels a little OP- I don't care if you even have Atium vision, if your opponent is moving faster than you are able to counter, you are dead.
In short, I'm 80% certain that Sanderson will nerf this power, just as with Hemalurgy. It would certainly make for a better story, and it means that it can be utilized more freely without concern for idiotic character choices needing to be made for the sake of plot.
But, how would you go about nerfing it?
I think the largest nerf to steel was the amount of compression and loss that happens with it as demonstrated when Marasi has the bands. I think her hand, at least, was moving about Mach 1. The rest of her may not have been and she ended up dumping nearly all of the attribute in a matter of a couple seconds.
I do think that bleeders use was still OP. She was so fast people couldn't see her but even moving 4x human max speed would make a person a blurr in a room. And it clearly can be used for a long period of time.
Other than to demonstrate what a pain it is to store an attribute, it is super boring to read stories of people storing all the time. Noone rolls the dice with feruchemy while weakened on purpose... maybe there is a time or two where appearing weaker would be better. But for the most part, no matter how much feruchemy is "net neutral", when used on screen it is a massively net positive yield. We don't want to read about the hours and weeks of weakness we don't see... but the seconds of epic page turning dominance is why feruchemy is so great.
Super speed is always going to be a pain to balance. The best way to balance super speed is by offering the character challenges that physical combat can't solve. If you go murder hobo in diplomacy it may end with you being the winner right now but in the long run you will end up with armies hating you and sanctions that strangle your ability to live. Bleeder is the only character who could get away with it because she didn't have to be her self when using it.
Even though a government might really enjoy using your destructive capabilities I envision that coming with a ton of red tape and so much restriction that it would make living with that power more trouble than I would want.
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Thanks for the replies.
17 minutes ago, alder24 said:She did something like this - RoW ch 15:
Ah. So like a single arms worth of a tight gambeson that can double as a reach weapon later on in a grappling match. This actually makes way more sense than what I had initially pictured. I had pictured the cloak more draped over the arm than wrapped tightly. Looking at the effectiveness of a gambeson to stop cuts, and then knowing they could dump breaths into it to make it shard resistant actually helps the visualization way more.
Less of a matador getting ready for a bullfight (how I initially pictured it) and more of a dog training sleeve for bite protection and parrying (how I think the visualization makes more sense).
The effectiveness of the gambeson through history really makes this style seem way more efficient and effective. What is even more fun about using it as potential armor and parrying tool is that you don't actually have to wrap it yourself. You can simply have the cloak or cloths do the work for you. Now I picture awakeners like a sort of Gaara with ribbons and bands of cloth that are capable of wrapping and warping around themselves to offer protection and attacks when needed.
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Kaladin sees Azure fighting with her cloak around her arm. In my mind I always pictured a shield but I am not convinced an awakened cloak could make a decent one... if she were an stoneward I would for sure assume that was it.
As an awakener what do you suppose she was actually doing with that? Is it a new command or was it more of a strengthen this.. or even used to grab and parry enemy strikes?
I really need to reread that section again.
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2 hours ago, alder24 said:
Yes, she heard something weird happened in the docks and she found a crowd gathered there, then Nightblood called her, specifically her. Nightblood can talk to people he chooses to - in RoW it was said that Nightblood was talking to many men walking past Szeth, until Dalinar ordered Szeth to silence the sword. At one point Nightblood even talked to Dalinar. Nightblood has a Life Sense of his own (he has a big BioChromatic Aura around him too) and can sense people and even recognise them - he often kew Denth was close, but not in ch 51 where Denth captured Vasher as a Drab.
Do you suppose Vivennas blade has a similar life sense?
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8 minutes ago, alder24 said:
Any life, any innate investiture in living organisms. It even detects trees or grass. Warbreaker ch 21:
Epilogue:
Awakening doesn't make things alive, they are still dead chunks of flesh, metal or fiber - it just brings them a bit closer to life and sentience. Vivenna has never felt Nightblood via Life Sense so this also applies to Sapient Awakened entities. ch 54:
I never thought about that quote before but now I am really curious.... Vivenna didn't know nightblood was there but he knew she was... she was close enough he could call to her specifically and I imagine he didn't call out into anyone else in that crowds mind either.
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13 hours ago, Treamayne said:
Unclear if it is sensing "invetiture" generally, or Breath specifically. In this WoB (annotation):
Brandon Sanderson
Life Sense as Part of the Magic
The ability of the Heightenings and Breath to give people an added dose of life sense was part of my attempts to make Awakening, as a magic system, feel more visceral and real. Allomancy is a great magic system, but I wanted a different feel here. In Allomancy, the powers granted are more like superpowers; with Awakening, I wanted something that felt . . . well, closer to what people already do.
Perfect pitch and perfect color recognition are two things that I think resonate this way; the ability to bring inanimate objects to life may seem wildly superpowerish, but I think it's a part of our own superstition and mythology—or at least the superstition and mythology of our past. Life from things inanimate, like spontaneous generation, was long assumed as something real. Witches were often thought to be able to bring sticks or bundles of cloth to life.
I think that there's still a lot of superstition in our modern world regarding how it feels to have someone watching you. We are more aware of our surroundings, sometimes, than we realize. I think we attribute a supernatural connection to some of these things. Who knows? Maybe there is one. I don't know, perhaps I've got a bit of it myself.
Enhancing this and making it part of the magic was a way to get the visceral feel I was looking for. It also plays off the idea that by giving up your Breath, you give up part of your life. The fact that Drabs can't be noticed by life sense allows me to show that they have taken one more step toward being objects themselves.
BioChroma. It turns objects into living things, but turns living things into objects as well.
It's implied that Breath is what specifically being sensed - the increase in "life" - which would imply you could sense anything "Awakened" even if it were not Awakened with BioChroma, but not just general "investiture."
Granted that annotation was more about 4th Heightening, not 7th (but there do not appear to be any WoBs on Seventh Heightening, except the one where he is discussing Instinctive Awakening, and cannot remember when answering if that was sixth or seventh (it is Sixth)
However we also know that lifesense senses people who never had any breath at all due to higher any levels of innate investiture at all basically.
Kaladin was mistaken for having a hightening at one point and I personally think that was because as he progresses through oaths there is more innate investiture in himself anyways.
33 minutes ago, Quantus said:Life sense can detect things like Spren so it shouldnt be restricted to Breaths and Awakening specifically. It seems to excess at detecting Static Investiture as compared to A-Bronze that detects Kinetic investiture. Presumably it would be able to detect anything in range that is significantly Invested, including godmetals and shardpools, metalminds, charged white sand (if it's sensitive enough), spren/seons/skaze, Dor Devices that maintain power, animals with Spren (or Worm?) Bonds, etc.
This is kind of what I thought.
More specifically now I am curious if a lifeless would be sensed by life sense or by the 7th heightening being treated as an object more than a person.
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I feel like 7th heightening should be able to sense far more than just awakened objects... but I am trying to figure out what it is doing and what it could sense.
If it is sensing the investiture in a non living thing placed there by a living thing... then can't metalminds be detected? Would lifeless count as something that can be felt by someone of the 7th heightening in a manner similar to how life sense works for living folks?
Would it sense any highly invested object? Things that have been effected by surges? Aethers? I know the whole "spill light on the floor using surge X Y or Z to create an impossible obstacle." Would the 7th heightening sense that Kaladin just poured stormlight onto his shield?
What about infused vs dun gems?
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25 minutes ago, Argenti said:
Agh Epee! The gross weapon. But yeah, I agree, the gear is hellishly expensive.
( I fence foil, but dabble in Epee)I love Epee! Foil was fun when I dabbled in it but I just found the target area to be too restrictive.
After a lot of kali and stick fighting I like having the entire body as a target. Use your longest weapon against your closest target. Lots of wacking hands and shins if you can. Off line attacks and less trying to maim or kill but just destroy their ability to keep fighting.
Ironically that is exactly how I enjoy envisioning shardbearer fights... a few slaps against your opponents hands or shins to stop them from advancing.
Epee is so annoying to fight against. Although my biggest issue with fencing has always been the suicidal tendencies of some strikes... scoring touches where you get a point because you touched their foot 0.1 seconds faster than they slapped your neck feels wrong haha.
So I can feel the irritation against epee haha.
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3 hours ago, Knight of Eternal Books said:
How fun is fencing btw? I'v been debateing doing it but I don't want to commit to something if i'm not gonna like it
I fenced more saber and epee and it was a blast. I couldn't keep it up outside of school as it is a pricey hobby if you don't have access to the equipment. I bet more HEMA style fencing is even more enjoyable. Its a great way to train footwork.
I also really liked that Bruce Lee nodded to fencing for its footwork, distance control and lines of attack.
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20 minutes ago, Knight of Eternal Books said:
there is one thing we haven't taken into account - the shear size and massive weight of the shardblades (dead Blades not Radiant) The blunt force would be enough to severly damage the Half-Shard. and if you combine that with a shardplate than, whether or not the shield as aluminum is almost rendered useless. a few millimeters would do nothing to stop such a power. I will concide tho that an inch would highly likely stop it.
But there is another matter. the wood on the inside. if very heavy object is swung at aluminum coated piece of wood, eventualy the wood on the inside (no matter if it is ingrained within the wood) will shatter and splinter leaving you with an almost hollow shield makeing it easy to dent and destroy.
I would point out 2 things.
1. Shardblades are much lighter than they appear. Usually weighing what a long sword would have weighed. They aren't koloss swords or a buster sword or anything.
2. Most of the shardblade stances and swings have little force behind them because they have magical cutting edges and the force was very rarely needed.
Similar to the watermelon in this video I think that the wooden shield encapsulated in the aluminum will hold up rather well.
You don't need an inch thick coating even if it breaks under the aluminum coating it will function for a good while longer than a heavier and bulkier half shard. Half shards use investiture to block investiture. Same thing with metalminds... as the investiture gets destroyed by the shardblade the object gets destroyed...
Aluminum is different. It doesn't resist with a limited amount of investiture. It turns the shardblade into just a sword. And even wooden shields did a really good job at stopping swords. Put the metal all around it and you get the best of both worlds. I like the idea of using wood because aluminum is just a bit too soft for me to like it as a shield of its own. Coating a harder object and clinging to it like we see with the watermelon would be better than one or the other on its own.
Halfshards were an awesome invention in the absence of noone on roshar knowing about aluminum. As aluminum gets popular and more widespread knowledge it will make halfshards obsolete.
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3 hours ago, Knight of Eternal Books said:
"It is worth noting that the aluminum only nullifies the supernatural sharpness of the Blade, so a thin sheet of aluminum foil would be sheared through easily by a Blade." the Coppermind - Shardblades
Exactly. No magical cutting power but it is still a sword. Aluminum that is flush with a shield and even exists deep down into the grain of the wood would only need to be a few millimeters thick to do the job. The wooden shield would give it support and structure and it would give the resistance to the magical cutting power.
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9 minutes ago, Knight of Eternal Books said:
But could the Aluminum stop a shardblade? We've seen some instances (not many) of Shardblades cutting right through it as if it was paper.
Depends how thick the aluminum is. The magical cutting of a shardblade is 100% nullified by aluminum. So long as the aluminum is thick enough to not be cut through by the blades edge and weight of the swing then it will resist it indefinitely.
Hence I vote for a wax coating... or even wax coatings and then soulcast the wax into aluminum. It is flush against the wood and would offer tremendous support. Like spraying that flex seal over an egg... even if the egg inside gets destroyed... so long as that same mass exists inside of the sealed portion it should offer the aluminum around it the bones to stay in shape. You could go straight for a fully aluminum shield but I think a wooden shield with aluminum coating would offer more protection against blunt weapons as well as the shards.
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On 3/19/2024 at 9:53 AM, Quantus said:
It depends on what you mean by Create At Will. Evidence suggests they are using the Tension Surge, so a Radiant with access to that surge can likely accomplish some thing equivalent, since by and large the Radiants get far more flexibility in surge application than the Fabrial versions. But like any other Radiant Surge it would be temporary; they cannot just sit down and start manufacturing piles of actual Half-shard fabrials or anything.
With the exception of lightweavers and else callers. What is better and far easier to produce than a half shard? Take a wooden shield and dip it in wax. The wax will not only coat the entire shield but also bind and hold better into the tiny textured grain of the wood... then soulcast the wax coating into aluminum...
While at the tower they could make a legit production line of soulcasters who will never run out of stormlight. You could have the entire army outfitted with them in a week.
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29 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:
The rate at which you Store does not affect the amount of a charge a Metalmind can hold, it's purely about the amount of Investiture;
https://wob.coppermind.net/events/153/#e2802
Lance Alvein (paraphrased)
Does the rate of Feruchemical storage of an attribute affect the total amount stored in a metalmind?
Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)
It was not intended to be.
Are you talking about the A-pewter/F-pewter hack? I think it has to do more with the idea that you can Store strength in a Pewtermind, but because the strength gained via Allomancy is purely magical in nature you get a magical boost when you Tap it.
I think I always assumed that you were storing the strength itself. Which comes with no size increase. The only real WoB I can find about it says compounding is easier but you can't escape a need for hypertrophy with normal feeuchemical strength tapped at bonkers levels. If you want to toss a big 1400lb armored opponent I think you will be facing an increase in mass no matter your body composition through feruchemy alone, even compounded.
The benefit to storing pewter would really shine for that lack of mass gain altogether. Although I don't know how it would happen. There is a difference between storing the strength gained by pewter and the strength of the pewter. I speculate that the magical enhancement to strength from pewter would need to be stored in a separate metalmind just like different senses and connections etc.
I do, however, agree with your original premise of this topic. I am sure that if your muscles were trained in a manner to focus on strength gain with minimal hypertrophic effects you would also have less % mass increase with strength gain. We don't really know how strong Sazed was as he was jacked nearly to the point of immobility. But any training to allow your muscles to maximize their efforts would help in this regard.
If you want an interesting comparison then you should check out the lb for lb deadlift world record vs the world record for what was simply the heaviest deadlift. Eventually I think mass is a must no matter what.
The other thing I find interesting about F pewter is that it is insanely dependent on the frame of the user how much max usage you can get.
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17 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:
Oh, certainly they could; the amount of attribute Stored is directly proportional to the amount that you start with, so more muscle to Store = more attribute to Tap.
Another example of this would be to have a 100 lbs. Skimmer and a 200 lbs. Skimmer Storing 30% of their weight. The heavier Skimmer simply Stores more at that percentage as it equals more total Investiture.
Personally, I believe this is the change in muscle that A pewter effects. Hence the ability for it to store better.
Although thinking about the difference in storing weight... if Wax weighs 200lbs he can store over 6 million lbs in a day vs a 100lbs storing the same % and having far less potential effect. I wonder if the iron metalminds get filled twice as far or if their storage is based on the % of an attribute stored more than the actual attribute itself?
Would A pewter store twice the strength into a metalmind or is there a numerical value there? If you can bench 200lbs and wanted to store half your strength it would just be storing the ability to bench 100lbs. If you burn pewter and can normally bench 400-600lbs with the same physique (an increase of 200-400 additional lbs), and wanted to just store the a pewter strength would it store as you doubling or tripling any lift from there or would it store as you being able to bench another 200-400lbs?
I assume a pewter strength has to be stored on a separate metalmind. When tapping it in conjunction with a typical pewtermind how does it work?
Say I am tapping 100% additional strength so I can now bench 400 and then I tap my A pewter storage. Am I able to bench 600-800 (the 400 from myself and the pewtermind plus the ability to lift an additional 200-400lbs from stored a pewter) or am I able to bench 800-1200 (the 400 from myself and the pewtermind plus the ability to lift an additional 2-3x from A pewter).
This becomes more insane when you actually burn pewter as well. Say flare it for 3x more gain. Is it just an additional 600lbs from that base 200lb bench for a total of 1200-1400lbs? Or is it going to multiply my power by 3 from what it is? Allowing a 2400-3600lbs?
Either way I can easily see how a pewter compounder utilizing different muscle types of storage could toss someone in some magical armor weighing 1400lbs.
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19 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:
Actually, in terms of pure combat ability and overall utilility, you're right, a Full Feruchemist + Pewterarm is better than Mistborn + Steelrunner; there's just more synergy there, including to F-pewter and F-gold.
Mistborn + Steelrunner combo does still have Ironpulling, Steelpushing, Leeching, and A-duralumin though, so there's definitely a tradeoff, but your combo has enough pros that I'd pick it over my original suggestion most of the time.
The only think I really think it lacks is leeching.
Depending on who you are fighting in the cosmere as a whole I think that A chromium may be one of, if not the single most, best powers in the possible tool kit.
It's about aiding someone to stay dead. But that is so insanely cosmere specific and further specific to only a tiny tiny % of possible opponents.
Although it would come with other perks too right? If fortune is more like a precog sort of buff it could be that either set of powers combined with double chromium could be the most busted thing in the cosmere.
In the MAG it so happens that chromium simply grants rerolls which is awesome, however you want to flavor it... be it luck or a bonus to just feeling like something should be done this way vs that... it is extremely powerful and could make either choice dangerously effective.
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How Strong Are Awakened Objects?
in Warbreaker
Posted
I agree with @Treamayne that the skill and practice of the awakener is important. Likely the ability to visualize how well you want something to work is a large limiting factor. I think that is a large part of why Vasher has developed and chosen to use so many commands including the idea "as mine". Whether they be additions to his arms or his legs or even his whole body at once... It is far easier to nail down the visualization of something that you already do all the time.
Although this idea makes me wonder if someone with TV who binge watches a ton of bruce lee could command a jumpsuit to act and fight like Bruce Lee... Which leads to the potential of giving further super powers to awakened objects as visual effects get better in cosmere wide cinema haha. Mistborn spoiler:
Would copper ferrings excel at this even further being able to pull from their copperminds the perfect envisioning aspect of awakening?
I also think that material can only do what material can do. Dont expect a cord with 100lb tensile strength to hurl 200 lb boulders. Thankfully we have cordage that really really stacks in weight. Further, imagine future awakeners who hit the 9th heightening and the damage they could do with a set of extra long doc ock arms made of steel cable.
I think the amount of breaths plays the smallest roll in this. The breaths will naturally balance out the materials ability to make your visualization come to life.