JohnnyKaizen

As a sidenote, I feel there is an important detail in this WoB that I truly hope is a thing!

There's waaaay too many factors to make either claim. What era are we talking about? Are they on Roshar in the middle of rocky nothingness or a planet with cities full of metal? If the Windrunner is 5th ideal and they are up against a full born, do they both have years of combat experience? Does the windrunner have an oxygen supply...can they shoot up to the mesosphere and either escape the fullborn or see if -120 freezes them solid? Or maybe shoot up to the the exosphere and see if cooking at 2200-2700 degrees does the trick (We've already seen living plate withstand extreme temperatures)? If the full born gets that high..can the windrunner hit them hard enough to force them out into space? Would near absolute zero kill a fullborn? We know that at some point shardplate is fine in space..sooooo? I do agree that compounding makes for ridiculous amounts of power compared to other Cosmere abilities..but matching them head to head has to take a bunch of other factors into account.

It does? I've only read the three original books. Did I miss out on something not reading the omnibus?

Yes, I did mean brother-in-law. My wife's brother.

I knew nothing about the Cosmere when I first started reading Sanderson books. I didn't even know Shard vessels existed, much less Adonalsium. My BIL recommended that I read Elantris, Warbreaker, and the original Mistborn trilogy (in that order). So, imagine my surprise when Ruin and Preservation showed up. I was pretty blindsided in a very positive way. I then had to ask some people for some basic Cosmere knowledge as spoiler free as they could. I then read through every Cosmere book I could (that was available at the time) which was up to TWoK. After that, I found the 17th shard and would read off and on for a few years before I started posting. So mostly, I became Cosmere aware because of my BIL and this place. I will always be grateful that my BIL didn't mention the Cosmere at all before getting me to read. I imagine there are a lot of folks who didn't get to experience that. It was really special.

Reading this thread made me think of a tangential point about Chana. I put it in the the crazy theories thread as to not derail this one, if anyone is interested. https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/156419-craziest-theories/page/2/#comment-1694687

New Theory: Chanarach stole Taln's Honorblade. I don't know how returns actually work for Heralds, but it's logical that they would return relatively in the same geographical area. It's pretty well established (at least here) that Chana is the one who returned to Braize and broke, as we know Taln didn't break. So, she returns, but doesn't have an Honorblade..she's crazy afraid as she knows the fused are coming. Who would know better were some deadeye blades are stored in Kholinar than a herald? So, she runs off and gets one to swap out with Taln. As he has bursts of lucidity (and semi-lucidity) Taln may have simply handed his blade to Chana because she asked him for it. Then she gave him the replacement blade and she went into hiding..because of the insanity they all have and she's even more afraid of going back to Braize because she was just there..and she's been hiding somewhere with Taln's blade ever since (or is trying to make a deal with it or something like that).

That just sounds like Hoid.

The way he wrote that, I feel like there could be a whole lot of Bondsmith secrets wrapped up in the word "resources." It could be man-made materials. It could be that Bondsmiths can do things to help/encourage spren to manifest into certain things. It could be that a bondsmith is needed to modify the tower in any serious way..or a lot of other things I can't think of atm. Sanderson freakin loves to put lines like that in about things he's really not shared a lot of info on yet. Because he's a mean mean man, lol.

Ok, yeah. I follow that. I will reserve room for some extra sneaky Brandon trickery, but that all makes sense to me as is. Thanks!

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, what that also seems like it means is..

I put my question in the box, as it pertains specifically to the Cosmere Spoilers - Mistborn, White Sand, Warbreaker, etc. that @Treamayne put in a spoiler box.

Yeah, that's what I meant, but oversimplified it. It does seem, at the very least plausible, but I also think it would take someone (above intermediate) in an advanced-expert level surgebinder or better, to do it. I don't think aligning crystalline structure would be an easy thing to do, it seems like it would be very delicate work. That's an excellent point. I would hope that Jasnah will settle that one way or the other. I'm greatly anticipating her research into surgebinding, as well as any collaboration with Navani. Any scientific detail on surgebinding is welcome, in my book.

I might be recalling this incorrectly, but didn't Venli have a conversation with the stones themselves? It seemed almost as if the stones where acting in cooperation with her abilities to change shape and flow, and tell her some of their history? Adding that to what @alder24 said and the quote from the Ars Arcanum, I would think that it's at least possible to take a perfect gemstone and then "talk" other gems into the same crystalline structure (through stoneshaping). Obviously that would require practice, as we can see the difference in Jasnah's level of proficiency (and I don't think Jasnah is a master of Soul Casting, I assume she's got a lot more to discover in time) with soul casting and Shallan's..I belive it would take someone well versed in their surge to accomplish what @Nydus is describing. Edit: The more I think about this, the more I think it might be an ability more suited to Singers than humans, but I don't know enough to say that definitively. But, I thought I'd add the thought.

Ok, this hits at what was making my brain hurt so much. If Nightblood is leaking into the other realms, then that in and of itself would explain what I've been having problems with. If Nightblood is actively leaks into the CR and/or the SR (which presumably it makes logical sense that if they leak into one, they'd leak into both) that would mean either their is a flood of black investiture pouring into the the CR..or somethign between wisps and whatever we see Nightblood doing in the PR, and the rest is simply going straight back into the Spiritual. I still feel like there is something missing here though. Mostly because Sanderson has said that the excess investiture isn't just recycled. But, that could also be him playing with words when people ask him questions? I don't know. And it does raise some interesting questions about Nightblood's nature. But, as is almost always the case, we won't know until we know. Also, leaking around the sheath seems like it shouldn't be possible, but I assume that speaks to the somewhat near-Shardlike amount of investiture that Nightblood has taken in? Does aluminum have a maximum limit of investiture blocking/nullification that Nightblood is overwhelming or is there some Cosmere trick/mechanic at play that we don't yet understand? also thanks everyone who put up with my brains dogged pursuit of one thing it didn't want to let go of. This was really helpful, and I appreciate it. O and @Treamayne, I didn't know that I could go back and edit a quote into a post..thanks for that.

I am talking about how much investiture Nightblood can take in, and how when they took in all that they could at the BoTF, they went into a "Food coma," as Sanderson described it, from trying to draw on infinity. I am getting at why doesn't Nightblood gush out an overwelming amount of liquid and/or gaseous investiture when they've absorbed soooo much. At the BoTF, Nightblood absorbed more investiture than Rayse was holding when he was stabbed. That's what I talking about, but Nightblood collapsing that singularity is another excellent example of a time that (proportionately to regular actions of Nightblood as they've been described in Warbreaker and SA) I would think that there should be a far greater output of "excess investiture" since that is yet another time that Nightblood stabbed into the SR (infinite investiture) and drank they're fill. Edit Note: I'm adding the below to avoid double posting @Treamayne Said: "Which is why I have said since the beginning that Nightblood is shown as leaking in the Demense (vision, whatever you want to call it) there would be no reason for that leakage to cross realms. Rayse's body likely appeared in the PR as it looked when Szeth sees it (as shown in HoA when we see three different vessels appear) - so the Damage was done in the CR/SR combo Demense, and the mangled corpse showed up in the PR after he was dead. Actually, since we know that Nightblood normally vaporizes the physical form of what he destroys, the fact that there is a corpse at all indicates there was no physical object to turn into smoke (and the leakage all happened in the Demense)." Ok, I understand where you're coming from with Taravangian and Rayse in regards to time dilation/lag. Time was wibbly-wobbly there and I am more than willing to set that aside as possibly something to do with that, because until someone explains the temporal mechanics of moments like that, there's really no use in speculating, because that's entirely conjecture. Also, I can logically see Todium absorbing all of that (if there was a massive amount of black excess investiture) to conceal what he had done, because that would be bang on the mark for him. I'm still falling back on the BoTF, as well as (since @listerfeend reminded me of it) when Nightblood collapsed the perpendicularity when Dalinar and Co met Ishar. Those are two instances of truly massive investiture absorption that (if Nightbloods uptake and outake of excess investiture is 1 to 1) would produce insane amounts of black liquid and gaseous investiture.

I know there are other WoB where he clearly states that Nightblood hit their limit when they were exposed to the perpendicularity. It (I assume by its intrinsic nature to absorb investiture) met infinity for a brief time and absorbed it's max limit, and fell into a gibbering state of ecstasy. Having hit that maximum, one would think that Nightblood would have flooded out liquid investiture from having just absorbed it's entire capacity in a matter of seconds? But, that isn't described. It doesn't have a flood of excess..and that to me..seems like there should be a specific reason. Same with when Nightblood was in the house with Taravangian and Rasye was absorbed. There must be a connection between Nightblood's physical and Spiritual aspect..if for no other reason than the investiture has to go somewhere. I suppose one could argue that when they were sucking up Rayse..all of that went straight into the SR, but that doesn't seem logical for Nightblood specifically. They're not Human..and I don't think comparing them to Dalinar in a vision is apples to apples. I need to look at the rest of Ch 113 to see what the descrition of Nightblood is when he stabs Rayse and just after.

I definitely must have skipped over the quotes @Treamayne shared. And maybe it's just my own OCD being stubborn, but it feels like those quotes make sense in the context of Nightblood feeding off of Szeth's (or any other relatively "normal" invested person's) investiture. If feels to me that at the Battle of Thaylen Field *specifically* Nightblood should have turned into Nightflood (even if for only a short time). I understand, accept, and agree that when they're actively consuming investiture that liquid investiture pours from the blade in excess, but at the BoTF, Nightblood essentially was stuck into an ocean of investiture and absorbed more than a Shard vessel like Rayse held. Shouldn't that have blacked out Thaylen Field, even briefly? And when Rayse was stabbed, Nightblood's physical aspect was in a house..wouldn't it at least be logical that that house be filled with liquid, or even gaseous, black investiture? I may be digging where there's nothing to find, but this feels like a logical inconsistency to me, and I've come to trust Brandon doesn't leave those around for nothing, or just out of ignoring them?

I was specifically referring to the rate of leakage. Why does Nightblood always seem to leak about the same amount whether they have absorbed one person (like Shasharra) or one Shard Vessel (which obviously Rayse held a vastly larger amount of investiture than Shasharra or anyone one else Nightblood has absorbed) and same with the time Dalinar opened the perpendicularity and Nightblood was exposed to limitless investiture. One would think that absorbing to the zenith of capacity would create greater leakage, but it seems as though there is some sort of gating mechanism for the leakage. I am wondering why, because that seems like a purposeful design.

If this is exactly the case, I have a tangential question... Why doesn't Nightblood gush investiture? What I mean is, let's say Shashara was 10th Heightening when Nightblood killed her, and Nightblood started off (leaking) 50,000+ breaths. Ok, that's a lot of investiture, but we've seen Nightblood suck in Investiture from Honor's open perpendicularity until they were glutted as well as sucked in all of Rayse's investiture and a tiny bit of Odiums (again, to his maximum ability)..and yet..they seem to leak the same amount (or not a proportional amount to 50,000 breaths vs whatever Nightblood's maximum is) of black smoked investiture, no matter how much they take in? Is there some sort of gating mechanism for the leaking of excess investiture? And if so, what (if anything) does that say about Nightblood's innate nature?

Nobody swapped Taln's blade. He had two, the honorblade and spren blade. Nobody will know that until his sanity is restored, at which point he will revive his deadeye'd spren.

We don't know where perfect gemhearts come from atm (AFAIK?) and other than gems being grown in a lab, I can't really think of a more likely source? Jasnah has already pointed out that there are far fewer perfect gems on Roshar than statistics would indicate there should be, just through chance. The ability to breed hordlings into the wild things Sleepless already can, would make me think that with enough time, they could breed perfect gemhearts and then larger and larger versions of them. If not them, I don't really know who could outside of an advanced laboratory. One that shouldn't exist on Roshar atm anyway.

Which would beg the question, can they breed hordlings with perfect gemhearts?

I voted Lightsong, as he is suuuuper laid back and easy going. He's also fairly conscious of being rude or not. After him, I'd say Adolin, for pretty much the same reasons. If I have a roomate, I need sleep dang it, and most of the people on this list are likely to deprive me of it on a somewhat regular basis.

Yes and no. The color of blood is mentioned several times throughout WoK and WoR. I don't think we were supposed to know why, but the connection was always there. Stuff like this makes me wonder what else I've been missing over and over.