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RedBlue

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Everything posted by RedBlue

  1. RedBlue
    Hoid had the opportunity to take up a Shard, but ultimately didn’t. He isn’t an example of giving the power up because he never Ascended. I think people earlier in the thread have explained why he’s talking about Vin.
  2. RedBlue
    The Parshendi are doing better than they have been in previous books, when they were facing complete annihilation. They are still living on a planet mostly dominated by a hostile Shard, whose existence will soon provoke other Shards to attack. They have to live with a permanent storm, and they rely on Retribution to provide Light. We don’t know what long-term effects this will have on the ecosystem, but it probably won’t be good. I think that’s pretty bleak.
  3. RedBlue
    If Wit wanted Dalinar to believe that the power could not be relinquished by a Vessel, he would have excluded the Vin example as well. He could have just told Dalinar ‘nope, the Vessel can’t give up the power, it’s never been done’ and Dalinar wouldn’t have known any better. We know now (from Dalinar) that a fully alive human can give up a Shard after a full Ascension. We have no reason to think that Wit believed this to be impossible, even before Dalinar confirmed it.
  4. RedBlue
    Given the context of Wit’s discussion with Dalinar, the status of Kelsier’s mortality seems like a pointless semantic nitpick. Regardless of Kelsier’s being a Cognitive Shadow at the time, his choice to give up Preservation is extremely pertinent to Dalinar’s situation as he is pondering his options. I know Wit can be petty, and he often omits information, but this is Serious Mode Wit. His best interest is served by Dalinar having good, relevant information so that he can be effective. There is no good reason for him to deliberately exclude one of only two examples of giving up a Shard.
  5. RedBlue
    My understanding was that the ‘splinters’ of Honor that form the spren came from Tanavast deliberately Investing while he was alive. Honor isn’t Splintered like we originally assumed, just shoved into the Spiritual Realm without a Vessel. I think this is because of the destruction caused by forcibly Splintering a Shard. Rayse did that with Ambition, and it messed up a whole solar system. He didn’t want Roshar to end up the same way, perhaps especially so because he was stuck there. Maybe he should have realised that time was ticking and he needed to choose between dealing with a new Honor or dealing with the fallout of a Splintering, but Rayse was never a good strategic thinker.
  6. RedBlue
    I think you’re right — it’s a pattern that Radiants in the same order will often struggle with inner demons that fit a particular theme. The Bondsmiths and their tendency to take over, the Lightweavers and their self-deceptions, the Skybreakers and their blind obedience. As I see it, the Windrunners’ problem is not necessarily about martyr complexes, but more broadly about taking care of themselves. Teft needed to overcome his addiction, and Sigzil needed to find a way to lead without being crushed by the weight of responsibility. But they are patterns with breaks in them. Lopen’s journey isn’t about self-care, it’s about learning how not to be a jerk by accident. I think Navani is another exception. Dalinar and Melishi were classic ‘big men in charge’ types, with a tendency to make important decisions on behalf of other people whether those people liked it or not. Navani, in contrast, is used to behind-the-scenes administrative work. In her engineering projects, she generally organises and oversees teams of researchers rather than inserting herself into the middle of the project, even though she has the skills to do so. She has no problem delegating power, and doesn’t particularly want it. It makes sense that the flexibility built into the systems of Oaths will result in patterns of behaviour with occasional exceptions. Most types of Radiant spren seem to have favourite types of humans they prefer to bond, but when circumstances push a spren to make an unconventional choice of Radiant, you get someone who approaches the same set of Oaths from a different angle.
  7. RedBlue
    I agree that people can mean many different things when they say ‘grimdark.’ To me, ‘grimdark’ is a bleak tone, disturbing subject matter, and an oppressive feeling throughout the work that the problems of the setting and characters can never be meaningfully solved. I don’t think Sanderson will ever go near actual grimdark. It’s not his style. A threnody novel might be horror-adjacent, though, what with all the murder ghosts. WaT ended with the heroes in a very tough spot, but the ending presented this in such a hopeful way I can’t imagine the series will end with the villains winning. The main characters rounded off their arcs with triumphant affirmations that they have succeeded in conquering their inner demons. Kaladin resolves to look after himself and others. Shallan fully integrates her alters and realises that, despite her fears, she is not backsliding. Dalinar gets his heroic sacrifice moment and chooses to give up power. Adolin finds a way to be the big storming hero without compromising his values. Szeth reclaims his agency. Even when Stormlight is dark, it keeps demonstrating how and why there is still hope, and people can make good choices that matter. In my opinion, that’s the opposite of grimdark.
  8. RedBlue
    Yes, that was Battar. We think she’s the Herald who agreed to the new Oathpact last, with a ‘curious expression.’ I’m pretty sure there have been some threads about what her deal might be, but to me it looks like she decided to break away from Taravangian after being freed from the Odium evil goop.
  9. RedBlue
    There are definitely some heated posts and indelicately stated points of view here, but we’ve also had an interesting discussion about portrayals of romance in sci-fi and fantasy, what our comfort levels are and why, things like that. I have enjoyed reading people’s various takes. Let’s not start locking down threads every time they brush past a sensitive topic, or every time someone gets offended. I understand the need for moderation and I appreciate it, but I worry that overly heavy-handed lockdowns will have a chilling effect on discussions.
  10. RedBlue
    As much as I disagree with @christianrapper’s take on Renarin and Rlain, I think this an overstatement that veers uncomfortably close to being rude and conversation-ending. There’s nothing wrong with expressing an emotional reaction to part of the book, especially when the post started an interesting discussion thread. If you find it to be reductive, you don’t have to read or respond. Additionally, I think the accusations of bigotry are unfair. Singers are not a marginalised ethnic group, they’re a fantasy alien species with an ape body plan. It’s reasonable to compare them to sapient apes (which humans also are). Sure, you can choose to read the Singers as a metaphor for human marginalised groups, but that is not the only valid interpretation. Let’s keep this polite.
  11. RedBlue
    I doubt it. Even if Ambition was tech-focused (and I don’t think there’s any textual evidence that this is the case), this all happened very early in the timeline. Even with Shardic intervention, civilisations can only develop so fast. It takes time to get to the tech level that Roshar and Scadrial are currently. My impression is that the point of Splintering a Shard is that the power isn’t going to fix itself and can’t be picked up. It’s permanently broken. Maybe there is some way to reverse this, but I think it would require significant effort from a powerful being (like another Shard). But Ambition won’t be doing anything if left to its own devices. I don’t think Autonomy is the type to assimilate another Shard, due to Autonomy’s Intent, but maybe another Shard will make an attempt at some point.
  12. RedBlue
    Do you have a chapter reference (or rough idea where this happened) so I can reread this bit?
  13. RedBlue
    From WaT epilogue (emphasis mine): This is Hoid’s perspective, so there’s always the possibility that he’s just wrong and underestimated how flawless Cultivation’s future sight is. Hoid has never held a Shard, so maybe his intuition is off because he doesn’t ’get it.’ But if Hoid is right, Retribution was not predicted by anyone with future sight — including Cultivation — because it was one of a vast number of deeply unlikely outcomes. Everyone disregarded it. Which would mean that Cultivation did not plan this specific outcome. She might be satisfied with the result. She certainly nudged the pieces into place by helping Taravangian and Dalinar both Ascend. But, in my opinion, that’s like when you panic-mash buttons in a video game and somehow beat the final boss. It is ‘winning,’ but there’s a lot of luck mixed in with the skill.
  14. RedBlue
    We can be pretty confident that humans and Singers can and have produced fertile hybrids. My point was that I don’t think reproduction is important to the question of whether it’s acceptable (or icky?) for humans and Singers to date. It’s especially irrelevant in the case of Renarin and Rlain (those two aren’t having kids). To me, it seems like intelligent design is in play in the cosmere, so I tend not to draw a distinction between ‘regular biology’ and ‘magical fantasy genetics.’
  15. RedBlue
    I agree that Heralds are much more human-like than spren-like, but is reproduction really the dividing line here? I get that some people want kids and not being able to have them would be a dealbreaker, but that’s just some people. Plenty more people don’t see reproduction as a goal in their romantic relationships.
  16. RedBlue
    Conflict within Singer nations may be a problem, too. With Taravangian’s attention being diverted, territories that don’t have clear leadership in place (Alethkar, Shinovar, Iri) are going to have a power struggle bonanza. The Fused have the upper hand in terms of authority and fighting ability, but only 2000 of them are functional. And the ‘functional’ Fused include many who are unsuited or unwilling to fill administrative roles. So you can fill out the most senior government positions with Fused, but other civil servants will have to be quickly recruited from the local humans and Singers. There’s going to be a mad scramble for influence. And on top of that, there will likely be myriad splinter groups of Singers (and humans!) who don’t like being subjugated by Shards and Fused, and want to break away. And Venli and the Willshapers on the Shattered Plains are in place to aid their cause. And the nature of Retribution could make it hard for Taravangian to crack down on this sort of thing, even when he does have time and bandwidth to deal with it. Odium likes people who struggle to assert their own will, even if they’re disagreeing with the power’s Vessel. And Honor will severely limit Taravangian’s options in wrangling his subjects, because it will hold him to the letter of every promise he makes.
  17. RedBlue
    Broadly, I agree with you. Adolin does make some pretty bad faux pas in WoK. He takes one of the women he’s courting with him on his investigation of the broken saddle strap, and that’s the ‘date.’ She was unimpressed — fair enough. Adolin repeatedly put his dates right at the bottom of his priority list, and when the latest young lady had enough of that, he moved on to the next one as though his dates were interchangeable. This is pretty shoddy behaviour by anyone’s standards, not just the Alethi Court. If he’s not serious about dating, he could just not do it. He doesn’t have to waste these women’s time. To Adolin’s credit, he sorted himself out. Once Shallan caught his attention, he put in some effort, spent quality time with her, and stopped his more questionable habits. Overall, I think Adolin in WoK was a young man who needed to learn some social graces. Which he proceeded to do. It’s hard to see that as a precursor to cheating. Incidentally, I think it’s neat that a female character gets to be depicted as liking sex without it being portrayed as shameful or weird.
  18. RedBlue
    This is Kelsier’s Ascension, from Secret History part 6 chapter 4: I think that’s unambiguously a full Ascension, regardless of the Connection tricks he pulled to make it happen. Kelsier then tries to use the power to attack Ruin, but is ineffective. Ruin chalks that up to Kelsier being a Cognitive Shadow. We get this description: In other words: Kelsier is holding the Shard, and believes he can keep holding it, despite the Connection issues. He’s not an effective Vessel, but he is a Vessel. Hijinks ensue for a few weeks, until part 6 chapter 7, where Kelsier gives up the Shard: That’s Kelsier making the very deliberate (and difficult) choice to let go of Preservation. It’s not that the power rejected him, and it’s not that he wasn’t fully holding it. He chose to give up the power. Having gone over that, I feel pretty confident in saying that Kelsier does count, and should have merited a mention in Wit’s discussion with Dalinar. I think it’s likely that Hoid doesn’t know that Preservation had changed hands, and believes that Leras managed to cling on up to that point. As demonstrated by Taravangian, it’s not necessarily clear to an observer when a Vessel swap happens, and Hoid doesn’t know everything. Given the animosity between Hoid and Kelsier, this does make me wonder if Hoid’s opinion of Kelsier would change if he had this info.
  19. RedBlue
    The issue here is how Jasnah would keep control of Thaylenah after taking it by force. It’s not possible, regardless of the situation with the Oathgates. She does not have the resources to hold a newly conquered territory, not to mention the damage this would do to her credibility as a leader back home. The populace’s opinion of Odium doesn’t matter to Jasnah’s decision. If Thaylens cause trouble for Odium, that’s his problem. If Jasnah had taken over, the Thaylens would have caused problems for Jasnah, and that would have been her problem. Especially if Thaylen rebels had attacked a nearby Odium-affiliated territory and restarted the whole conflict. Attempting to control Thaylenah by force is just not worth it from Jasnah’s perspective.
  20. RedBlue
    I don’t think that’s an accurate assessment of how Singers work. They aren’t compelled to change forms at every opportunity. In their backstory, Venli and Eshonai spent long periods of time in their preferred forms with no issue. During the war against the Alethi, many Listeners spent years in warform for practicality. Singers choose what forms to take and when, and they are more than capable of talking their plans through with their partner. Also, as Rlain explains in WaT, changing forms is not the same as changing personality. It’s the same base personality, but with different sides being emphasised. That sounds more like a mood shift than a personality change. How Rlain will go about changing forms now that Highstorms aren’t a thing anymore is anyone’s guess, but we shouldn’t just assume the current situation will make romance untenable forever. There are IRL couples who don’t share the same first language and they make it work. People are smart and find ways to communicate, even if that involves learning new things. In the case of Rlain and Renarin, we have seen that Renarin can hear and speak to the Rhythms, at least to an extent. And Rlain is fully capable of communicating with humans without Rhythms. It is possible to push the alien-ness of a fictional species to the point where I would think ‘hold up, these guys can’t have romantic relationships with humans, they are just too different. It couldn’t work without someone getting hurt.’ But the Singers are nowhere near that point. They are very similar to humans in terms of psychology.
  21. RedBlue
    Because conquest was never the goal. Jasnah set out to defend an ally from Odium. She failed to do that. Taking Thaylenah by force would not have solved the problem, because the ally is still lost. And, in the hypothetical scenario that Jasnah uses her own troops to successfully take and hold Thaylenah by force, what happens next? How do you ensure Thaylenah is politically stable in the aftermath? An unpredictable ally is a liability when you’re counting on the entire coalition not to break the peace by initiating hostilities against Odium’s territory. Also, I don’t think Jasnah would consider the conquest to be morally sound, given her political philosophy.
  22. RedBlue
    You’re very welcome!
  23. RedBlue
    There’s a very good visual novel called Slay the Princess which focuses on the relationship between two very, very non-human characters. It’s in the realm of fantasy rather than sci-fi, so not ‘aliens’ in the traditional sense, but I did come away from it thinking ‘wow, that was a kinda-sorta love story that does not remotely mesh with human psychology.’
  24. RedBlue
    I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what is happening.
  25. RedBlue
    The Coppermind is a wiki run by fans. It’s not official, and the people who write the entries don’t have any special secrets. Presumably, the ‘sword of retribution’ phrase caught someone’s eye as they were reading and they made an entry. I strongly doubt there’s anything deeper going on here.
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