RedBlue

It’s more that the other parts of the story (Vienna and Lightsong) are very PG-13 action fantasy affairs. If people go to see an R-rated movie and a large portion of the runtime feels like a PG-13 film, they will likely be disappointed. Maybe there’s a good way to market such a film so that people see the movie they came to see, but I don’t know what that would look like.

I disagree that movies in general can’t tell this kind of story — there are excellent R-rated movies that deal with disturbing sexual themes. Perfect Blue is one of my favourites. An R-rated Warbreaker would certainly be viable from an artistic standpoint. But I don’t know that an R-rated Warbreaker is commercially viable. Clearly, it would alienate a huge part of Sanderson’s built-in fanbase, and I don’t know how you would market it to the general R-rated moviegoing public.

If/when they do a Warbreaker movie, I expect the nudity will be a non-issue. It’s easy to imply nudity without showing anything explicit. You could also just have her be wearing underwear in those scenes. The actual content of the story is more of an issue. A huge part of the plot is about a young woman and a young man in a deeply messed up, disturbing, coercive sexual situation. And you can’t talk around the sexual nature of the situation, or the abuse, without changing the story significantly. To my understanding, it’s really pushing the limits of PG-13 even without the nudity aspect.

I love TFE, but I think there are definitely changes that could be made, both to improve it and to make it work as a movie with a reasonable runtime. Behold relevant WOB from 2020: Which brother?It certainly could not be Elend, right? Elend had no Allomancy powers (before he ate the lerasium in WoA), so Straff despised Elend and thought him too weak.And Zane was a bastard and also mad dog.If Shan was Straff's legitimate daughter, then her succession was already 100% secure. She wouldn't need to prove anything to anybody. Brandon Sanderson It will be Elend, but it's more that this is the first time that Shan gets to be on her own, leading by herself, and wants to show off for the Lord Ruler. Also, there's the question of whether the male heir--though inferior in this case--might get the nod for sexism reasons. I think it's going to work just fine, but I'll admit, it's getting a little rough to discuss all these details on a thread like this--I can't answer everyone's questions, I'm afraid. I just wanted to indicate the kinds of changes I'm looking at making. Whatever I do will go through my standard "show it to tons of beta readers and get feedback" process, so I should be able to catch problems and fix them. meh84f The bit about atium is a bit confusing. The Ventures are going to have the Atium stash? Not the stash that we don’t find until the end I’m assuming? So it’ll be a stash but much smaller than expected? Brandon Sanderson So, I'm not sure I can explain it all in this, but one big change I wished I'd made from the start of Mistborn is making atium usable by all Allomancers. As I've gotten further in the cosmere, using a god metal as just for Mistborn has felt off. So the lore change for the films will mean any Allomancer can use atium. This, in turn, lets House Venture have access to the LR's atium as a "Control the city" last resort. They keep a task force of allomancers for this purpose--which Ham can join, in anticipation of being able to steal it once Shan accesses it. (They don't know that House Venture is only given about a hundred beads of atium, not access to the full mythical cache, which will be reserved for the third movie.) Makes the worldbuilding and storytelling more elegant, I've found, in the film. And it fits better with more "modern" cosmere fundamentals as have developed over the last decade. I think I'd make this change even if we moved to a television show and long form. The Lord Ruler is still the "big bad" but Shan and the Inquisitors both get a little more screen time. (Actually, about the same as in the books--it's just that other parts are being trimmed, making them more front-and-center.) Phantine Based on that, you're also streamlining away the Sign of Sixteen if it gets a sequel? To be honest, that didn't really work for me in the novel anyway. Brandon Sanderson It's one of my least favorite parts of the trilogy. It (along with Vin drawing upon the mists in book one) are big changes I'm hoping to make to fix weaker sections of the continuity. General Reddit 2020 (June 22, 2020) I like the idea of fixing the gender ratio for minor characters and extras, and I would be down for seeing a version of the story where Shan is more important (and, y’know, interesting).

Considering the timelines, it seems likely to me that the first film will be released at around the same time as the Ghostbloods books. Which will make it a very interesting time to be in the fandom. Old fans discussing new material, movie-onlies discussing new old material, film-to-book fans catching up on the back catalog. I’m anticipating a huge influx of Kelsier hot takes I think I understand what you mean about ‘vibes.’ Kind of a nebulous feeling that these characters are a lot like you and have thematically familiar problems, just in a very different context? I’m not sure anyone, including Sanderson, could know in advance if the movie is going to connect with you on that level. Even after they finish making the movie. Emotional resonance isn’t predictable, especially for specific individuals.

I’m a bit confused about what you mean by ‘representation.’ None of the characters can be interpreted as LDS members, and the LDS faith doesn’t exist within the cosmere as a concept, so I’m not sure where you’re seeing representation in the books. Is it that the characters (the ‘good guys’) live in line with LDS values as you see them? Can you describe what, specifically, those values are? I’m a bit lost because as I see it, the ‘good guys’ in these books have little to no alignment with Christianity/LDS on the morality of big ticket items like killing, stealing, or lying. Does representation, for you, come down to the couples performing a ceremony before being physically intimate? Because if that’s the case, you can just ask “Will the movies still have Vin and Elend’s sexual relationship be ambiguous until they get married?”

How about this: “Era 1 avoids alienating LDS members with conservative values, for example by keeping Vin and Elend’s sexual relationship ambiguous until after they get married. Will this carry over to the movies? And if not, is there anything you would like to say to LDS fans who feel alienated by the new version?” (I won’t be around for the stream, so somebody else will have to ask) (Also, is Vin and Elend’s sexual status the main point of concern here, or am I missing the wood for the trees?)

The problem is that the Alethi weren’t just going to war over it. They were planning to keep attacking until the entire Parshendi population was killed. Of course the regicide demanded retaliation, but genocide is unnecessary and disproportionate. There’s also the issue of rushing in blindly with virtually no attempt to gather basic intel, which puts everyone at risk, including their own people.

I don’t know if this is a controversial opinion, but I loved the final Dalinar vs Taravangian confrontation. I thought it was a great capstone to Dalinar’s arc and a strong showcase of Taravangian’s cruelty, spite and dangerousness. There were plenty of good fights elsewhere in the book, so I don’t feel that another physical confrontation would add much of value, particularly not between these two characters.

This strikes me as a very odd way of looking at it, because to me, the most religious and reverent of the main cast in either of these series are Dalinar and Navani. Dalinar is a liberal theist who develops his own beliefs about a ‘God Beyond’ when the religion he grew up with was challenged by current events. Dalinar introspects about his own morality, and chooses to place his faith in something that exists outside of the mess that is Shards and Vorin culture. In Dalinar’s mind, rejecting corrupt, broken old traditions to find new and better ways is justified, perhaps even a moral imperative, according to his faith. Navani is an orthodox theist who still worships the Almighty, despite the mounting evidence that such a being never existed in the form her faith teaches. She participates in traditional religious rituals such as burning glyphwards. The only thing she does that might be considered a defiance of her faith is marrying Dalinar, but even that is more defiance of the ardentia than of Navani’s god as she understands him. Meanwhile in Mistborn Era 1, we have Vin, Kelsier and Elend, whose most notable religious activity consists of rejection of their culture’s dominant religion (worship of the Lord Ruler, aka Sliverism). Vin literally kills the man her people worship as a god. Kelsier makes a point of not using language that glorifies TLR, plus the entire god-killing scheme and setting up a religion that deifies himself. Elend spends his youth reading books that are banned by religious authority. It’s the polar opposite of ‘thy will be done.’ When Preservation comes on the scene, Vin and Elend treat him more like a powerful-but-difficult ally than a deity to be worshipped. Over in Secret History, Kelsier has his one moment of humility when he calls Leras ‘my Lord’ (after being incredibly disrespectful toward him for most of the book) before going right back to his usual tricks. Overall, not very reverent.

That’s a great observation. My speculation is that Moelach really is useless, and it’s because Odium does not have much control over the Unmaking process. Whatever he was trying to get from Moelach, it didn’t work, or something went wrong.

The comparisons you’re drawing aren’t wrong, but they are very general. One could use this sort of list to compare Kaladin to any number of religious or mythological figures. For example, here are ways in which Kaladin is ‘basically just’ the Buddha: He’s connected to royalty He goes through multiple deaths and rebirths (metaphorically) He spends a long time struggling to find a ‘formula’ for living a good, moral life ‘Demons’ (Moash, various Fused) attack him to try to prevent him from making a breakthrough He summons a ‘goddess’ (Syl) in response to the demon attack He succeeds in discovering this ‘formula,’ and it involves a numbered list of steps he has to follow He develops supernatural powers upon making his discovery He learns that other people made this discovery before him, but the knowledge had been lost to time He is a charismatic leader with a collection of followers who learn from his example He eventually transcends to another state of existence, but does not die like regular people His followers go on to spread the things he taught them I think it goes without saying that Kaladin is not a Buddha, or a Buddha allegory. There’s too much that doesn’t fit, the iconography is completely different, and most of the points above are overly general or too much of a stretch. And for the same reasons, I don’t see him as a Jesus allegory either.

I doubt Felt made much progress with interrogating Kalak, because Kalak doesn’t have the info Thaidakar most wants. Kalak doesn’t know how to get a Herald away from the Rosharan subastral, and he doesn’t know how to prevent or cure Mad Herald Syndrome. The most useful info Kalak can provide is an account of Rosharan history and maybe some pointers about how to store memories. But I agree that Felt represents a different faction within the Ghostbloods. His association with Iyatil is minimal. The Sons of Honor have fractured over time, starting with Gavilar’s death and fracturing further with Amaram’s death. The faction that ends up running amok in the Alethi warcamps is not functionally led by Restares and is not aware of important secrets. They’re mostly concerned with empowering themselves and the Vorin church and researching questions that Kalak already knows the answers to, like the Voidbringers and Urithiru. The Ghostbloods’ interest in Kalak makes sense, but doesn’t explain why they’re getting into it with the likes of Ialai, Vamah and Thanadal. The level and direction of hostility seen from Iyatil’s group does not match these goals. She’s supposed to tap into a natural resource and investigate anything that looks like it could yield useful info. How does that turn into assassinating an Alethi princess who is not obstructing these goals and is not a threat to the organisation? And it wasn’t just the one attempt, either. Why is Iyatil so determined to kill Jasnah specifically? Similarly, what’s with the feud with the Vorin extremist faction of the Sons of Honor? In short: Iyatil’s group’s actions don’t add up, and I think we’re still missing part of the puzzle.

Iyatil and her cronies have been effectively destroyed, but there’s much more to the Ghostbloods than just Iyatil’s faction. And yes, things are about to go down on Scadrial, but there’s no reason that should prevent another dangerous Ghostblood agent from absconding to Roshar. And given how Shallan’s plot thread concludes in WaT, I would be surprised if the Ghostbloods don’t have a major resurgence in the back half. Thaidakar makes a point of saying that, while he personally is cool with Shallan, his organisation is not. Then he warns her that Iyatil’s brother and associates may turn up on Roshar, and they will be her enemy. That would be a weird plot hook not to follow up on, in addition to the lingering unanswered questions.

Not to pick holes, but we still don’t know what Sja-anat's motivations are, and Ba-Ado-Mishram is described as ‘ambitious.’ For sure, you can find a way to make the Ambition-Dominion-Devotion thing fit, but the fact that you can swap those attributes around into different configurations that work just as well demonstrates that the link is tenuous IMO.

From the RPG materials (World Guide chapter 3), we know: IMO that motivation doesn’t match up with Dai-Gonarthis being derived from Dominion. It seems a bit too contrary to the Intent I would expect to see, even accounting for some warping.

I decided that the Ghostbloods info in the World Guide merits a lore post because it’s not often we get reliable info about them or their goals that isn’t filtered through an untrustworthy source. As expected, the primary goal of the Ghostbloods overall is to protect Scadrial. The goals of the Rosharan branch are: Deliver a lot of Stormlight to Thaidakar (this is the main thing they are supposed to do) Find way for Thaidakar to leave the Scadrian subastral and to avoid Cognitive Shadow mental issues (they don’t seem to have invested much effort into this one) Gain control of the Oathgates (presumably for strategic purposes) Acquire perfect gemstones (for transporting Stormlight) Find Ba-Ado-Mishram and recruit Sja-anat (to empower themselves) Imprison Heralds (to gain information and ‘eliminate potential adversaries’) Assassinate Jasnah (still very unclear why they’re targeting her) Oppose Sons of Honor (also unclear why they care about this local power struggle) Other information of note: the organisation as a whole has a ‘strict hierarchy,’ and that the Scadrian Ghostbloods consider the Rosharan branch to be ‘chaotic.’ To me, this says that Kelsier did have significant concerns about Iyatil and her behaviour before Shallan’s report. Maybe he suspected all along that Iyatil was planning to go rogue, or maybe he didn’t like how she prioritised her activities. Under her leadership, the Rosharan branch seems to have focused heavily on goals that don’t benefit Kelsier or Scadrial in a clear, direct way. I also infer that the Ghostbloods’ approach to Roshar will have to change significantly in the future, not only because the current branch there is (apparently) defunct, but because their original goal — to secure and deliver Stormlight to Scadrial — is now moot, as there is no more Stormlight. Perhaps the next iteration of the Rosharan branch will be after Voidlight instead? My main question now is: why are the Rosharan Ghostbloods so hostile? Why are they picking fights with Jasnah and the Sons of Honor? Jasnah in particular could have been a helpful resource, and would have been eager to trade intel or favours back in the WoK era. The Sons of Honor and their petty machinations are irrelevant to the Ghostbloods’ main goals. Even the Heralds would make better allies or contacts than prisoners, as they are not a credible threat to Scadrial in their current state. I expect the Ghostblood plotline to pick up again in the back half, as there are things here that really don’t feel resolved.

No, I’m pretty sure if you want to use platforms like Roll20 you’re going to have to pay extra. I meant that if you want only the PDFs, to read or to play in person, you don’t need to pay the extra. (Please note that I am by no means an expert, you should probably look into this stuff yourself to make sure you know what you’re getting before you make a purchase)

You can get just the PDFs with no VTT extras. It should be an option on Brotherwise’s store page on DriveThruRPG.

There are various online platforms where you can play virtually, such as Foundry. When you buy the PDFs, look for packages that also give you access to those services. And more generally, if you’re looking for a group or have questions about logistics, you’ll have better luck asking on the game’s Discord. There’s also a subreddit.

I remember there was a lot of speculation following WaT about the ancient spren, Night, and what happened to her. According to the new info in the World Guide, the Night became the Nightwatcher. From chapter 3: Because the Nightwatcher seems to be subordinate to Cultivation, I suspect that whatever happened to the Night to make her as she is now, Cultivation must have been very involved. Tenuous speculation time: maybe Cultivation hijacked Night for her own purposes, turning her into the Nightwatcher. Some Rosharans may have found that extremely objectionable, as Night was essentially a deity in her own right at one point, and may have been important to their religions and even natural functions of the planet. This could have led to Taln’s plot to kill Cultivation, perhaps with the hope of restoring Night.

The canonical glyph for chouta is a stylised (but super obvious) picture of a taco with steam rising from it. It’s pretty funny

The section about Alm, a vassal state of the Azish Empire, is particularly interesting. Alm is a tiny nation known for being unimportant. The government of Azir once sent them parshmen to act as palace servants, but Alm secretly freed these parshmen and gave them cottages where they could live as they chose. After the Everstorm, it became a discreet hub for singers who wanted to remain neutral in the conflict. This enclave of neutral singers sounds like it could be important going forward, especially because (as of WaT) the Shattered Plains are going to be a refuge for singers who want to get away from Retribution. I’m also intrigued by these ‘free’ singers before the Everstorm fixed their Connection. Were they able to take care of themselves when left to their own devices? What did they choose to do with their time?

You find a GM with the Stonewalkers book. Players who aren’t GMs should not read Stonewalkers. Players need only the Handbook, and the World Guide is optional.

I’ve pulled out some tidbits from the World Guide about Rosharan nature that people here may find interesting. I think this is all new, or at least newly-clarified, but the novels are really big and I can’t remember every detail. The Rhythm of Peace marks the progress of time. It has cycles which sync with the Rosharan year and its lunar orbits. Singers can determine the current date and time by attuning Peace. Shalebark is referred to as a plant by Rosharans, but it’s actually an animal with a thick, rocky shell. The Reshi believe the Tai-na (island greatshells) are sapient ‘due to the Tai-na’s bonds with remarkable spren.’ No clue what these spren are. Also unclear whether the Reshi are correct about that sapience. [EDIT: the book clarifies elsewhere that the Tai-na are sapient.] There are domesticated pasture animals called gumfrem that are raised for their gemhearts. I assume this is the backbone of the gem industry. Emotion spren are rare in crowds, even if people are feeling strong emotions. The Nightwatcher is not influenced by people’s perception of her. Unclear why she’s different. Generally, I have many unanswered questions about natural history on Roshar. The World Guide is full of terms like ‘developed,’ ‘adapted’ and ‘evolved’ with reference to Rosharan plants and animals. This seems somewhat at odds with it being an Adonalsium creation. How much of this is natural, and how much was designed? Did Adonalsium create the physical geography, and leave life to do whatever? Was Roshar seeded with simple or advanced life from another planet? It’s unclear. Related to the above point: Rosharan fauna with shells are referred to as ‘crustaceans.’ It’s unclear whether this means they simply share characteristics we associate with crustaceans, or if they are actually true crustaceans (ie share a common ancestor with ‘normal’ crustaceans). If there’s a detail you find interesting that I missed, feel free to add it.