therunner

Reverse lashing Kaladin used against Pursuer to tear his head off was around strength of ~140 lashings (force applied should have been around 5000N, head weighs around 5kg), so I would assume that at least 50 lashings is easily realistic for 4th oath Windrunner. Usual earth brick has mass ~3kg, and size around 20 cm x 10 cm x 5 cm (roughly). On Roshar with gravitational acceleration 7m*s^(-2) we would get for a brick of mass 3kg, with air density 2 kg*m^(-3) (almost twice as much as Earth), surface area to air 200 cm^2 and of drag coefficient 1.02 (we assume they fire it the bigger face first, so not optimaly) we would get terminal velocity of 100 m/s, so 360 km/h. With 25 lashing this would be around 1500 km/h. THIS IS INCORRECT, SEE EDIT If they took the same brick but lashed it the smallest face first (to minimize drag) they would have surface area ~50 cm^2 and drag coefficient only around 0.82, and the terminal velocity would now be 226 m/s, so whooping ~800km/h. With 25 lashings this would be 4000km/h, which is quite insane (the kinetic energy of the projectile would be ~2MJ, so about the same as a very heavy car at 80 km/h). THIS IS INCORRECT, SEE EDIT Also, if the brick still has lashings left it will continue to try and accelerate even after impact, potentially pushing inside softer targets. EDIT: In the above calculations I made a mistake and overestimated the results by ~3.2. The true terminal velocity in the first case is 31 m/s, so 112 km/h, in the second case 71 m/s so about 255 km/h. With 25 lashings the speeds go to 550 km/h, and ~1250 km/h in the second case.

I disagree with the second part. In my opinion in light of the first WoB (it is hard to make it happen) the second WoB implies that mistborn would not be able to burn the godmetal they have no connection to at all. In Vins case the earring was still pewter albeit invested one, so any mistborn or pewter misting could burn it as pewter, because it is the usual allomantic metal and so is inherently tied to allomancy. However, godmetals fall outside of the scope of the usual metals, to get atium misting Leras had to manually alter allomancy. Since without this modification no atium mistings are born, this to me suggests that the ability to burn godmetals requires some connection, either to the allomancy itself (as it was for Atium mistings) or to the mistborn attempting the burn (which for Atium would now be facilitated by the inherent Ruin investiture in all Scadrians). I would for example assume that mistborn with nahel bond could burn shardblades/shardplates, but without some similar connection I think they would feel something in the metal but be unable to do anything about it.

Yeah, I think using either well placed atium spike in addition to the 16 other spikes, or lerasium spike could be way to go to steal the entire 'mistborn' set. (if 'Steals all abilities' also means magical ones). I think there are 2 things happening, with ordinary metals (so one of the 16) the metal acts as a key and a keyhole for Preservation/Harmony investiture which fuels the effect. With godmetals I think it is the metal itself that fuels its effect, as it is some kind of investiture anyway, we see this with Atium in HoA where the burning of it was used to temporarily weaken Ruin. With godmetals of other shards, I think the metalborn would need some Connection to that shard to be able to burn it, sort of like Vin could feel Sazed metalminds, but because of Identity she could not do anything with them.

Ah I was not aware of this WoB. Thank you then, both for answering my original question and then for the follow up. This is interesting to know.

My assumption is that you if you withdraw at the same speed as you stored, you have no loss. So in your example you would end up drawing from the second metalmind at 2x the speed of storage (where you already stored 2x the human speed, because at the time of storing you were tapping a metalmind) you now get 4x the original amount of stored speed for 4.166 hours. If done directly, i.e. one metalmind tap at 4x the speed you would get less than 1,5 hours of tapping at 4x speed. So the steps would be (content of first metalmind, content of second metalmind) Store 12 hours of 50% speed into the first metalmind (12 hours of 50% speed increase, 0) Tap the first metalmind at 2x the speed, hitting 5/6 efficiency, so you get 5 hours of 100% speed bonus. You immediately start to store this into the second metalmind and do this for 5 hours (0, 5 hours of 100% speed increase) You tap the second metalmind at 2x the speed, hitting 5/6 efficiency, and you get 4 hours 10 minutes of 200% speed increase. If you tapped the first metalmind directly at 4x speed (to get 200% speed increase), you would be hit with efficiency penalty of 1/2 or worse so you get ~1/2 * 12/4 = 1,5 hours of 200% bonus speed for total speed 300%. Per WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/243/#e6126 ): "Let's say you spend one hour at 50% strength. You could then spend one hour at 150% strength, or perhaps 25 min at 200% strength (5/6 inefficiency for 2x), or maybe 10min at 250% strength (1/2 inefficiency for 3x)" The point of the see-saw process is that it is more efficient, if you get no loss from tapping at the same speed you are storing and you can store the reserves you are currently tapping. The downside of the method outlined above is that it takes some additional time to prepare.

Thank you all for answers, it seems that there is no such limitations, or it was not mentioned yet. I was interested in this, because if it is possible to do that feruchemist has partial way to overcome inefficiency inherent in tapping faster than attribute was stored. Per this WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/243/#e6126) each increment in tapping speed is harder than before (e.g. 5/6 efficiency for doubling, but only 1/2 efficiency for tripling of tapping speed, and even less than 1/2 for quadrupling and more). However if feruchemist can tap and store the same attribute at the same time, they could tap at 2x speed (at 5/6 efficiency) immediately store it into a second metalmind and then tap these stores at 2x the speed again. Since in the second metalmind the attribute is stored already at this increased rate, tapping at twice the speed they were stored at will introduce again only the 5/6 multiplier. Now, the combined efficiency for going from the original investiture to this final metalmind is only 5/6 * 5/6 =~ 7/10, so the efficiency is greater than if we tapped the first metalmind at 4x speed directly (were the efficiency would be less than 1/2).

Was it draining the voidlight from gemheart or hitting them with dagger with anti-voidlight? Because I do not remember them being drained of voidlight, I was under the impression that so far the only way to kill Fused permanently was to stab them with anti-voidlight dagger and that is why it was such an important discovery. Wait, what? How do we know that, and how would that work? Would you compound A-steel to get stronger ability than normally?

Yeah, I agree, but for purpose of the discussion I decided to assume @BenduLuke scenario, as without being able to increase A-pewter through tapping faster they would not be able to match neither strength, nor speed of Radiant in plate. Also this WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/370/#e12122) might be read that storing stormlight (a kinetic investiture) might be possible, so other types might do as well. I agree, I have been thinking about those lately and I think they are by far the greatest asset Scadrial has. If they can be mass-produced, then in principle, even if making of a single medallion deprives their creator of the respective power, they can still be used to turn their entire population of misting into compounders, which is insane. And that does not require medallions granting allomancy, just feruchemy and only one at that. Any twinborn would now be compounder + 1, 2 additional feruchemical abilities (with 2 power medallion), for example A steeltwin (either born, or though a medallion) with brass (heat) and cadmium (breath) would be able to achieve higher maximum speeds, as by storing their heat they would never heat up too much + it would provide some amount of cooling to their armor. The breath would allow them to run at Mach 1-2 for longer periods of time without scalding their lungs/airways and without lugging around breathing apparatus. Or duralumin (connection) to any metalborn, to get agent with language abilities so that they can blend in better. Also since medallions granting powers do not get used up, after making a few thousand of them, they pretty much have tools to have a standing army of compounders, just needing to replace destroyed or lost medallions. If they can easily make also allomancy medallions, they can select ideal candidates to give compounding to, further increasing their effectiveness. (altough this would assume they have pretty much full control over their population, which is a bit iffy). And since f-nicrosil seems to work like f-copper (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/316/#e11247) so something that does not require replenishing, A-medallions would not require refilling, making them potentially the more powerful/flexible ones. However if I do remember correctly, they had issues with filling the unsealed metalminds back, so that might limit their effectiveness, but that does not address allomantic medallions which should not have such weakness. I am thinking that there will probably be some limitations on using medallions, as the ability to make thousands of compounders pretty much at will (after initial investment) seems a bit OP. However who knows what the future holds, hopefully after Lost Metal we will have more solid understanding of medallions and their working.

Alright, thank you. It has been a while since I last red Era 1.

Hello, maybe this is obvious, but can feruchemist tap and store at the same time? Into two different metalminds? EDIT: I did mean tap and store the same attribute, sorry for not stating it clearly.

(I quoted only the parts I am trying to directly adress) So, i will disagree with your reading of some of what you mention, but of course you are entitled to your opinions, values and readings. (I also hope I do not come off as condescending or that I want to attack your opinion, I am still a bit new to online forums) As far as I know Kaladin should have clinical depression, due to chemical imbalance. (although he also exhibits symptoms of seasonal affective disorder) I address Roshone down below, but shortly why is it honorable to seek vengeance? Who is Roshone hurting at the moment Kal arrives in village? Yeah, he still treats Kal badly, but he also seemingly stuffed the entire village into his manor to protect them from everstorm. Kaladins oaths call on him to protect people who need it, not met out what he sees as justice, that is Skybreakers understanding of honor. And in my regards, killing Roshone at the point in time he meets him would have nothing to do with neither honor nor justice at all, but just vengeance. Roshone did not kill Tien, just had him conscripted, and as shown in RoW Tien volunteered to go with other messenger boys, if he didn't he would survive the battle. I also think that you expect Kal to do things that are just not in his nature as a person. He has never shown interest in punishing criminals or people who did wrong in the past (unless they personally betrayed him/wronged him, but even then he never acts on it), he is always striving to actively protect people who are endangered at the moment or who might be (that is why he breakdowns in the battle of Kholinar). I would also say that at his core, Kaladin just wants to help people and protect them in the positive sense, he does not enjoy killing at all (I would even say that on some level he actively dislikes it). When he was contemplating betraying Elkohar and killing him, he was actively getting worse and worse mentally, so I think that if he did end up giving into that he would end up hating himself. I do think that both Elkohar and Roshone should have been punished more severely (or at all in Elkohars case, they did both commit manslaughter), however feudal society does not work like that, and Alethi are mostly feudal still (hopefully Jasnah successfully changes that at least a bit). So their society is not just, however breaking your oath is neither honorable nor just if done just for sake of vengeance. Honorable course of action would be for him to renounce his vow to protect Elkohar and then seek ways to get justice, but that would align him more with Skybreaker understanding of honor than that of Windrunners. 3rd ideal also has no caveats about "it being right to kill people who wronged me in the past personally." Righting past wrongs has nothing to do with protecting people either, if Roshone was still actively endangering the village, sure it makes sense to remove him (altough killing him might still be a bridge too far if there were other methods). Windrunners are most strongly associated with actively protecting/defending, killing Roshone would protect exactly no one at that point, and might actively make things more dagnerous by destabilizing the village (altough it seems that at that point Laral was the true power there). Justice and righting wrongs is associated with Skybreakers, and there you could make case that Roshone willfully neglected his duties as Lord when pressing Tien into service (as there might have been more suitable people) but you would still have to prove it, personal feelings should not enter the calculation at all. I do agree that nebulous 'honor' is a bad system, however for both Skybreakers and Windrunners (two orders claiming to be closest to Honor) that reliance on 'honor' is tempered by leaning on law (Skybreakers) and focusing on protecting not hurting people (Windrunners). In fact Kal killing Roshone and calling it honorable or just would be the reading of honor that leads to blood feuds in my estimate, so him not doing that is a good thing.

Well there is a WoB that while hard to achieve a Mistborn I was curious if my line of thinking (that 16 spikes would not be enough, and mistborn are a bit more) sounds right to others, or if there was something I did not notice. In era 4 of Scadrial this distinction could prove quite important, as it would mean that most of those thousands of alloys potentially available will not actually be usable by anyone (as they would need full mistborn abilites + link to those other godmetals)

Hello, I was thinking about godmetals/their alloys and who could burn them. Since Leras had to "hack" allomancy to allow for atium mistings, and mistings seem to be able to burn only their metal, I am thinking that mistings cannot burn godmetals or their alloys at all. The exception to this would be lerasium and its alloys as those seem to be burnable by anyone, even non-Scadrians. This would make only mistborn able to burn godmetals (with some caveats, as in an older WoB Brandon stated that metalborn might need some tie to that kind of investiture, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/196/#e4205) If this line of thinking is correct, then someone using hemalurgy to steal all 16 usual A-metallic abilities might still not be equivalent to mistborn, as they only stole the ability to use individual metals, not the more general metalburning essence of mistborn. This would make natural born mistborn (or lerasium mistborn) the only true mistborn able to burn the godmetals and alloys. Is there some information, or a catch I have missed?

Unlimited, except for limitations caused by air friction, which limits them to below sonic speeds or mach 1 at most without armor and Mach 10-15 with supermodern armor (so not really Era 2 scadrial). Of course this completely ignores the WoB shared by @Frustration, from which it seems that their maximum speed without equipment is not that different from non-compounder with A-pewter and f-steel. And since this is Scadrial vs Roshar, for the purpose of this discussion they will never achieve relativistic speeds. Velocity has no force, however they could throw items they have on themselves which are also moving fast with them. Of course at speeds they can achieve that will still be inferior to guns. So you finally admit that velocity does not increase mass for any functional purpose? I am glad. (and no the story will not be different from opponents perspective, outside of homework calculations of total energy). Well at the very top is says that incendiary bullets are mainly used against flammable materials, which shardplate is not. And while it mentiones that some are armor-piercing/incendiary combination exists it does not say if the incendiary part is supposed to help with armor-piercing or not (and melting points and specific heats of metal hint that any incendiary component would not do much, but it might serve as a secondary propellant, like in HEAT ammunition I already linked.). Again you did not address my points for why it is unrealistic (not enough heat supplied) for a single bullet to melt through shardplate. By definition it increases weight that is why the it is called tapping weight. All Wax commented on was that he could still walk and move even with his increased mass, but nowhere does he tap weight to throw people around (hint, it is because he cannot). Sazed used his weight to make something heavy to resist Koloss and his strength (separate attribute in pewter) to brace himself against the gate for additional support. So they would have to both move their body and the armor or would their pushes move the body around as well (like a marionette)? Either way, good luck coordinating that in the middle of battle were single mistake kills you (hello shardblade). Also the amount of control that would require is incredible, on the level of someone like Kelsier, who is by no means ordinary. But maybe with a long training it could work, but not in heated battle. Plus a point I forgot earlier, unlike shardplate, the iron armor would have gaps, as it is not living/shapeshifting. As a device for use in peaceful setting like a factory, sure could be useful, but in battle against stronger and faster opponent who can move around without constantly doing multiple things? Well balance and aim are two very different things, if they had such good aim we would expect to see a lot of Thugs with bows in era 1/with guns in era 2, and yet I do not think they are there. And yes, while A-pewter increases multiple thinks, it does so as a singular resource -> hence it cannot be split using nicrosil (as nicrosil does not manipulate investiture outside of storing some). True on the reflexes, I was not aware of that. If they create liquid metal through friction from their movement they are already dead, from breathing in superheated air, or just from convection of heat from their armor. Do living blades disappear, or just deadblades? And yes living armor does seem to require conscious summoning, but it might also react on its own in danger. After all, we have never seen anything that might dispute that. That makes more sense, I misunderstood originally. Altough that raises the question, why is the Radiant not skewering them with the blade as they are just as fast (they have just pewter enhancements)? Well Kal is special boy, kind of like Vin is a special gal. That is why we are trying to talk about ~average level of skill, not exceptional individuals as those are always outliers. And the shardbearer was 20 something year old overconfident kid (Shallans brother) with not much training (at best 3-4 years, where most shardbearers train from early puberty) against someone who seems to have some spiritual realm shenanigans going on (Son of Tanavast, talent with spear, wind stuff), no wonder he got himself killed. [citation needed] on the negating invested cutting. Of course even so, it is still 6 feet long metal and ordinarily sharp sword wielded by someone with strength of at least 20 men, so the leecher will still get cut/torn in half immediately (or the radiant just punches them, that would work as well). And maybe division savant has set the air on fire around our metalborn from 20 meters, completely unsuported maybes are not much useful. Also savantism should carry drawbacks, so maybe our leeching savant needs to continually leech investiture or they die (kind of like Returned), so elsecaller could just put them in a box and wait a bit. EDIT: " Or a Windrunner would unconsciously lash away projectiles and even bullets and make them hit the ground instead making the Windrunner impervious to everything but aluminum " @The Technovore Fun fact, I think you do not need much more than what 4th oath radiant can do (to protect from just one, two directions at least). If the bullet is fired from ~30 m at speed 300m/s it would take only ~1000 m/s^2 accelaration from reverse lashing to get it to curve 50cm away, enough to miss the target (if they are aiming accurately, which based on the discussion apparently any metalborn confronting Radiants do) Coincidentally that is roughly how much acceleration Kal applied to Pursuers head to rip it off (5000 N, based on how much force it takes to tear human head off and 5kg estimate on weight of head), so this is not that far from what is actually possible. True numbers will be different depending on details, but the ballpark is realistic for windrunners.

Huh, interesting. So if I understand this correctly, f-zinc is partly more increased ability to think and process information (as in ingest it) and f-steel outside of physical speed also grants some measure of sped up perception and improved reaction time, but not necessarily allows user to think any faster than usual? So a bit like bullet time, but your perception speed improvement is not to the same extent as you physical speed? (going from this WoB: https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6398) I was under the impression that the agents were Terris full feruchemists (as she had Terris name, and wore many rings), and so not from southern scadrial. For some reason I was also under the impression that they might have predated Catecedre or were older than might seem, as there are ways to age slower. Either way because they were feruchemists and not allomancers I would assume they did not know about chromium, as that was discovered only after Catecedre, so is relatively "new". Either way, they might have contact with Scadrians even outside Terris agents (for example Ghostbloods) who might share that information, so it still suggests that leeching might not be enough to kill spren. If leeching cannot kill spren, it suggests that it cannot drain any investiture "fundamental" to spren existence, which might be just their spiritweb. Although how could spren recover from such draining I do not know.

I think the feruchemist would fare well against 3rd oath Radiant max, against higher oaths they lose as they have no tool outside of raw strength (which will make them larger -> less dexterous and bigger target for shardblade) to counter Shardplate. The only way feruchemists would stand a chance is if they surprised Radiant and blitzed them. And even against 3rd oath they would need to get close and not get high by shardblade and evade any longer range surges. I do agree with rest of assasment, mistborn is better but against shardplate would have issues and fullborn wins, no matter what. (although if you could lure fullborn to area where you preprepared supressor fabrials, that could be interesting). That is interesting, and if Brandon will stick to this it makes twin steel not nearly as much a threat against Radiant as I would assume, with the compounding not really providing much outside of larger stores. Although this depends on what is meant by "short-race", so I will probably not fully discount them yet. If they can move at ~100m/s for 30 minutes they would still be dangerous, albeit less so. By the way, does the f-steel impart improved processing ability to handle the faster speed? So they would not crash into things when moving at speeds from 40m/s and up (human reaction speed is 0.25s for visual stimuli, so in 10 meter room they would crash into the wall as they would not have time to react). Because if not, that also limits them heavily, as it makes maneuvering at higher speed nigh impossible.

Radiants could also have access to fabrials, and those are not static and are in fact quite quickly and actively being developed. So we can for example equip our radiants with painrials on gauntlets and stuff some regrowth fabrials inside plate (when they figure out a way to produce them). I do agree that steelrunner would be able to defend themselves so long as they keep moving. I am not sure if I agree that they could steel push with any greater strength then any one else, so on that I disagree. Also steelrunner would be still limited by the accumulated heat from friction of his shielding materials + escape velocities (if they were moving on a flat terrain, and they were moving with 11 km/s, after moving 1 km they would be 15 cm above ground, as the gravitational acceleration would not have enough time to drag them back to ground (as the ground curved away)) Also there is no such thing as absolute velocity, all motion is relative. You clearly do not understand the physics involved, examples just from the paragraph: Velocity has nothing to do with gravity, it is a vector then encodes relative speed and direction relative to some frame of reference Gravity is not "simply acceleration towards planet or whatever", it is an interaction between any object with energy/pressure, sourced by energy-stress tensor, and its effects are due to geometry of spacetime. (space tell mass how to move, mass tells space how to curve) Any gravitational effects due to velocity are supressed by 1/c^2, and steelrunner would turn into plasma long before they would achieve speeds necessary (unless they were in a vacuum). Observer and steelrunner do not share the same frame of reference, although they do roughly share experienced gravitational acceleration And for what feels like the hundredth time, velocity does not increase mass. (from the frame of reference of steelrunner he has no mass increase, but everything around him does, and vice versa for observer at relative rest...because motion is relative) Since your understanding of physics is clearly lacking, do not be surprised when your conclusion which depend on them are being repeatedly refuted. I mentioned atium because there are still some leftovers (Marsh and his bag), and as a godmetal mistborn should be able to burn it. Question, can even mistings burn godmetals, or can they burn only lerasium and the metal they were born with? Historically (as @Frustration said) there were hundreds of Radiants with plate. Breaking of deadplate with mundane means can still take 10s of minutes of sustained attack, also maybe living plate can be actively repaired not only by stormlight but also by attracting more of the correct spren? If so, that would me major advantage. I addressed (with numbers!) just how resistant shardplate should roughly be to heat, it is a lot. Allomantic burning is not the same as chemical burning, and the allomancers need to burn the metals inside their bodies to achieve effects. The coppermind mind does differentiate, the term "burning" is just metaphorical (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Allomancy , 3rd paragraph in the Mechanics section) : " When using their powers, many Allomancers describe a warm feeling in the stomach, hence the term "burning metal"." Tungsten, or iridium bullets (hardest metals). Uranium/plutonium might also be a good idea, because if lodged in it might make the shardplate radiactive at least temporarily. Even Bands of Mourning, the most invested metal object ever did not have enough investiture to match shardblades/shardplates. Any armor your compounder would have would most likely be less invested than they are, and so would at best be as effective as maybe half-shards, most likely less so. If the radiant had armor they would not be able to push/pull on metals on their person (as shardplate resists investiture and acts as shield). Tapped weight does not increase strength (again neither Wax nor anyone else ever mentioned such application, and Terris have been experimenting with such abilities for millenia). I would agree with stronger pulls, but that is only because of them being a better anchor, they could still not pull heavily invested items. The armor would not behave like powered armor, it does not impart neither increased strength nor agility or endurence. In fact it would actively worse that, so Iron compounder would tire faster, because they are lugging 20-30 Kg of armor around, and would make them sitting duck for any long range attacks. You do have a point here, I neglected their offensive capabilities. So this would bump them up in my estimate. Still due to air friction they would not be able to move faster than Mach 20 (nothing we can build now can survive that), and unless equipped with heat medallions to store their excess heat they could not move much faster than Mach 1 (at Mach 2 their shielding would heat up to 120 degrees safely killing them after a few minutes). They might be able to sustain quicker bursts, but only for short time periods before they would need their armor to cool off. EDIT: However Radiant with transportation would easily evade them, and those with abrasion could stop them from moving. Also steel grants physical speed, not mental speed so they would be limited by their reflexes and reaction time, greatly limiting their potential (unless they have Required Secondary Powers, however since mental speed is separate attribute I do not think they do.) If pewterarms had such improved aim I am sure Wax would mention it, as far as I can see they have in no way improved accuracy (outside of improvments imparted by better balance). Also hitting a head is very hard, and hitting eye slit would be even harder and Radiant sure as hell is not standing still as this is happening, but sure if they could pull it off than that would be very bad for the Radiant If Thug punched a rock, their arm would break and now they are a bit paralyzed from the pain because they just shattered every bone in their hand (rocks are hard). Also why would the armor dissolve? It is always on per RoW, and if you could negate it by being smashed to rock it would be pretty dumb, since one of their usual opponents are Thunderclasts, which are made of rock. They would be unequaled in strength and dexterity if they were tapping fast enough, and since they cannot compound they would waste quite a bit of their stores to match Radiant in plate for a few moments (although those moments could prove crucial). F-Tin allows splitting, and F-nicrosil allows to store different investiture in different minds. A-pewter is one kind of investiture and so cannot be split. While windshiperer could store metal sense, they could just see metal, not push them. While some twinborn (compounders) have more potential, most do not, and any twinborn are exceedingly rare (1 in ~10000 if we are being generous, so specific kinds are 1 in 2 million), so there will be only few with given ability combination. Also in desolation there were hundreds of oath four radiants, so they are much more common than any particular twinborn kind. You are not the only to make the effort, you just push scadrians far beyond what has been shown or confirmed they can do to just give them a fighting chance against run-of-the-mill 4th oath Radiant. Leeching requires physical contact, Radiant has superior reach, strength, speed and dexterity and cuts them down before they can make contact. Also leeching is not instantenous, so it would take some time for them to leach stormlight, but first they would have to take some time to disrupt the shardplate and in that time they would be killed (if the Radiant let them come that close). To quickly go over the second post Ettmetal is not alloy but new metal. I already explained allomantic burning (and it is on coppermind). Default does not mean it is the only thing they use (eg. Kaladin and spear). Iron is not more resistant to shardblades/shardwhatever than anything else outside of other invested materials/aluminum. Armor does goes away when user is knocked unconscious is pretty useless armor + to knock them unconscious you would first need to overcome the armor (and as Dalinar show, deadplate can survive fall of ~hundred meters with the user okay). Personal attacks are not nice. In my opinion you heavily overestimate metalborn (outside of compounders where we have few concrete datapoints) and extrapolate outside of any reasonable conclusion, also again personal attacks are not nice. To stand in shardplate and use shardblade/shardweapon does not require that much training if you are going against effectively unarmored opponent. If there is only 1-10 twinborn in generation that can have a chance to counter 4th oath radiant, they are the only weapon scadrial has against tens to hundreds of such Radiants, and that is a problem for Scadrial no matter how you slice it. Again leeching takes time and touch, shardblades are longer than any arm -> they will lose that arm before they can react, or you know, Radiant will use lashing from a distance. All Radiant has to do is keep the opponent further than 2-3 meters away which they can easily do since their are faster, stronger and have more endurance. In fact, in this fight even 2th oath Radiant would have chance if they have a way to attack from range or a way to evade touch (so any with either, Gravitation/Transformation/Transportation/Abrasion/Illumination). It is more Andre the Giant with speed and reflexes of Mike Tyson vs Bruce Lee. I think the difference is that while Leeching actively removes/substracts investiture while suppressors passively block access to investiture/spiritual realm. I think that while the leecher could kill spren, it would take quite a while as they would have to remove almost all their investiture (and they have a lot of it). I also think that Khriss was less surprised about killing spren, but more by existence of anti-investiture in general.

I again apologize for double posting, forgot to reply to @LewsTherinTelescope. (btw, is there a way to insert a quote when editing a post?) I do agree that already existing Hemalurgic constructs and people with spikes would not be effected, but in the suppresed area you could not make any new spikes. I think the Feruchemy would be at least partially blocked? Similar to what was happening with Lift in RoW, maybe it would be more difficult to tap/store with lower returns (i.e. store at 50% strength for 1 hour, but in metalmind you would have only 125% for one hour), but it is hard to say.

I assume "Hard to say" is not good answer? Protracted war (united Era 2 Scadrial vs post RoW united Roshard) I have no idea, Roshar has greater offensive capabilities (Radiants, Fused) but they have difficulty getting those off-world. On the other hand, Scadrial can mass-produce weapons beyond what Roshar currently has and would wreak havoc on rank-and-file (i.e. noninvested) Rosharan troops. Scadrial also has no easy access to Cognitive realm and that is currently the only one to travel between the systems, so Roshar has mobility advantage (with Oathgates, known location of at least one shardpool + Elsecallers and Willshapers). I think that if Roshar could mobilize quickly and get their heavy hitters off-world, they might hurt Scadrial pretty bad, but due to mass production advantages currently on Scadrial they would not be able to hold territory (remember what Dalinar says, Shards cannot hold ground) and would get eventually pushed back. After this all bets are off, as Scadrial would now have better experience in warfare, but Rosharans would have most likely copied some mass-production and tech tricks. One on one, 4th oath Radiant has better defense (shardplate) and offense (shardblade) than anything Scadrial can offer short of Fullborn. Some compounders have better defense (gold, steel), some have good offense (pewter, maybe chromium), but none have both at once, in my opinion. Even mistborn with atium and aluminum daggers would have a hard time (while shardplate has eye slit it can retract, as it did for Adolin in battle in tWoR) as they have no way of quickly disabling the Radiant, whereas Radiant has strength, weight and endurance advantage (contingent on enough stormlight, just as Mistborn will be dependent on metal reserves) and needs to only hit given limb once to completely disable it. Also since shardplates interferes with the use of outside investiture (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/181-stormlight-three-update-4/#e3830, specified for lashing but it would most likely work on any outside investiture) Rioting/Soothing would be completely useless when the shardplate is on. Chromium (leeching) might provide them with some ways to counter Radiant advantages, but it requires touch first and getting into reach of shardbearer is pretty much suicide (atium might help there, but it burns really fast). Mistborn with atium and some medallion (f-steel would be my choice) would have better chance, but it would still be risky proposition. If I was a mistborn I would burn atium or at least electrum to make sure I do not get killed and can avoid attacks, would try to damage the helmet with Iron/Steel to open them up to Rioting/Soothing and eventual killing attack with aluminum daggers/aluminum bullets to the head. Of course, if it was Elsecaller and they soulcasted air around to oil and then set it on fire, I would be screwed if they soulcasted large enough area. Full feruchemist might have a chance, if they had large enough stores of speed, strength, weight, health and maybe fortune (depending on what it does). They would need to try to blitz the Radiant and shatter the helmet and the head before they have a chance to cut them with shardblade. We could them start equipping our metalborn with some armor made out of some cheaper metalminds to provide better defense from shardblades, but this would come at a cost of lower speed, endurance and dexterity compared to unarmored person (and Shardplated Radiant would be even better in these depertments). Conversely, we could equip Radiant with some fabrials (like Kaladin was in RoW) to compensate. Ultimately, just look at the discussion, most people do not discuss how could Radiant potentially hurt metalborn, those are obvious and the only defense they have is not getting hit (or be gold compounder), but to get a way for metalborn to kill radiant requires much more thought. To me this clearly shows that Radiant with shardplate is the more powerful, as no one is scratching their head trying to figure out how could they kill metalborn, but everyone is trying to figure out a way metalborn could even have a chance of harming 4th oath Radiant. Of course, all this is my opinion and others will most likely disagree

The article hosted on Berkley site is from 1996 and is targeted at high-schoolers/high school teachers. Oh, and it also says this about "mass increase" (paraphrased a bit): "True relative to observer measures velocity. For person moving right along with the object, they will not observe any change in mass." So it is dependent on observer, and that is one of reasons for why it is not a good physical concept (either as inertial mass, or as a gravitational source) I already addressed. You did not react to my examples on what it would do in gravity at all. Also it is a bit funny that you link a wikipedia article I myself linked on a page 39 of this thread. And if you bothered to read it, you would see that it does not support what you are saying, as @The Technovore already pointed out (thank you for that). But just for sake of completeness, please read the section History of the relativistic mass concept of the wikipedia article you linked, which address the issues of the concept. As an example: " The concept of "relativistic mass" is subject to misunderstanding. That's why we don't use it. First, it applies the name mass – belonging to the magnitude of a 4-vector – to a very different concept, the time component of a 4-vector. Second, it makes increase of energy of an object with velocity or momentum appear to be connected with some change in internal structure of the object. In reality, the increase of energy with velocity originates not in the object but in the geometric properties of spacetime itself. " (quoted from https://books.google.cz/books?id=PDA8YcvMc_QC&q=ouch!+"relativistic+mass"&redir_esc=y , pg 248-249). So to close up, relativistic mass is and outdated concept born first from misunderstanding the equation and meaning of the terms (it was a cutting edge theory at the time, so that is understandable) and it is maintained through combination of popularity of "simple" equations like E=mc^2 in pop culture and outdated high-school textbooks. Ultimately, while moving objects do gain energy (through relation E^2 = m^2c^4 + p^2c^2) this does not change their mass at all (as mass is invariant characterizing given object, and on level of elementary particles it is one of the invariant charges). I support this motion. Maybe they would prefer club to a sword due to their cultural background, you do not know they would prefer sword, you just assume that. Also you still did not address the weight difference, which will be quite important if they clash weapons, even without strength parity. If the aluminum is thin enough it might get smashed/cut through by shardblade anyway, as even when you negate magical properties it is still quite sharp and heavy. The thin fibers would be even worse idea for stopping shardblades, as those would definitely get cut. No, it invests you with A-pewter coded investiture, that is it. This investiture has multiple physical effects (stormlight also has multiple effects, but is indivisible), but the investiture causing them is singular. Metals work as keys (analog to Aons on Sel) that when allomantically burned create conduit to spiritual realm, through which Preservation investiture flows to user. That investiture is shaped by the key (in this case metal) to achieve particular effect (in this case A-pewter effects), but it is still just one kind of investiture. As far as we know, nicrosil can store static investiture (pieces of spiritweb) and potentially maybe kinetic investiture (although that might require some hacks/work). Nicrosil does not allow user to split or shape investiture. It is like if the nicrosil ferring had different colors beads stuck in their soul. They can choose which color goes where (i.e. different kinds of investiture go to different metalminds) but it cannot split purple bead into red bead and a blue bead (splitting A-pewter investiture into different abilities). I do not think they contradict, there are other options (maybe the floor was partly eaten through by beatles and was softer than you would expect, maybe his clothing was sturdy enough, maybe he got lucky). As long as there are other more obvious (to me) explanations that do not contradict characters in story and the author, I will lean in their direction. Maybe in future something will show the increased resistance to damage (as WoB are not necessarily binding) but until such time, I will go with in-world experiences and author word. The armor piercing capabilities of such shells come from their shape (sharper nose), weight (to not lose much momentum when hitting armor) and hardness (to not splash uselessly against armor). They might also contain shaped charges inside them to assist with the destruction of armor, but even with these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-explosive_anti-tank) the effect is not due to thermal work done. Also these rounds are generally much larger/longer than the armor they are designed to penetrate. Here is a video on potassium (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANH-v-jd9PQ) as you can see on air it does nothing much, with water however it does ignite immediately. When spread more thin to create larger reaction surface it does combust, but it barely burns through a bunch of napkins so effect on armor would be non-existent (and that was a lot more than 1.8 grams), and even larger amount did nothing at all to the small iron ladle. Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dJww7TcpX8) we have homemade thermite with aluminum experiments. It fails to burn through even 1/8 inch steel, and the amount of thermite was 300 grams. Note that iron thermite burns at ~3100 K so comparable to burn temperature of your bullet contents, so 300grams burning at ~3000K failed to melt through 1/8 inches of steel -> your 2 gram bullet would not even scratch the surface of the shardplate. In this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Trb3v-7ptjg) from Mythbusters they did manage to burn through 3 steel plates (they seem to be again 1/8 inches thick), but they used up a few kilograms to do that, so this has no effect on argument above. To make a more quantitative argument, shardplate weight ~600 kg=6*10^5 grams, human skin has surface area around 2m^2. If we assume the shardplate is 2cm thick (you will see why shortly), we get density 6*10^5/(4*10^4) = 15 g/cm^3, this is almost twice as much as steel, and closer to tungsten or uranium. (If I assumed the usual medieval armor thickness at ~2mm, the density would be ridiculous at 150g per cm^3, however the mass that would need to be melted would remain the same, only its volume would change) So a 9mm incendiary bullet would need to displace/melt hole at minimum pi*(9mm)^2*2cm = 5 cm^3, and the amount of shardplate there would weigh 75 grams. Steel has specific heat of ~0.5 J/g*C so we can start with this. The amount of heat necessary to heat this small part of shardplate to its melting point (assumed here to be 3000 K) from room temperature (~300 K) would be 75*2700*0.5 = 101.25 kJ. Energy content of iron thermite is 4 kJ/g, so even if the bullet has magically more than twice that at 10 kJ/g it would still barely at best heat up a 1/4 of the required amount to melting point. I neglected the heat of fusion here, as it would give correction of the order ~10 kJ, so it would qualitatively make no difference. I also neglected that metals are generally excellent heat conductors, so the amount of energy necessary would grow, but it would most likely remain on the same order of magnitude. To summarize single incendiary bullet of usual weight will not burn through shardplate, even when made of stuff that is chemically more energetic than in our world, it simply does not provide enough energy to melt even a smallest hole in the armor. Aluminum neutralized investiture when burned allomatically, i.e. when used as allomantic metal inside allomancer, not when you set it on fire. From Coppermind article on allomantic effect of aluminum " An aluminum Misting is known as an Aluminum Gnat. Burning aluminum causes the body to instantly metabolize its metal reserves without any other effect. As such, an Aluminum Gnat gains no useable powers from their Allomancy, however, it can be used to negate effects of other Investiture such as Withering. Only Allomantically relevant metals can be burned away." Allomantic burning has nothing whatsoever to do with regular burning (i.e. exothermic oxidation), it is a magical ability to use metal as a conduit to spiritual realm to access investiture and achieve some effect, and the metal is consumed in the process. If any allomantic metal could be just set on fire to do their effect then metalborn are completely superfluous. Good point on the quick oxidation of aluminum, that would either imply that aluminum oxide has the same investiture negating properties, or that since only surface layer oxidizes and below it is still pure aluminum that the effects of aluminum extend a short range from its volume (maybe a few mm?). I do not mind speculation, but when you start bringing in real world phenomena and completely neglect the actual scales of energy involved, than it is no longer speculation but just misleading. If you also misrepresent actual abilities we have information on (allomantic burning vs regular burning) that is again no longer speculation, but just wrong and not how it works. And when you presented a situation where Scadrian would win, I countered and presented arguments for why it would not play out like that. I also do not think that Scadrian has no chance one-on-one, just that in head-on battle they do not have chance against 4th oath Radiant (outside of Fullborn, some compounders and maybe mistborn with one well chosen medallion to allow compounding). I think Scadrians best chance would be to catch Radiant unaware (i.e. supersonic aluminum incendiary bullet to the head, or two) but since we now know that living plate is always "there" even this might be complicated. Here is some magnesium demonstration (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErJS78AnO80) just put in water does not do much, with steam it does a bit better. Here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIBCcW1Zp8w) we can see that when set on fire before submerging it then reacts a lot better, but it still does not even crack the glass, or evaporate any larger amounts of water. Also volume is not the relevant quantity, mass is. The .22 bullet has volume ~1cm^3 (casing just contains propellant, so we do not include that) so that is 1.7 grams of magnesium or 2.8 grams of aluminum (and that would not include any outer shell or anything, so just a small dab of magnessium/aluminum), so my calculation from above still holds: The bullet would not have anywhere near enough energy to melt even a small bullet shaped hole in shardplate. Burning=/= allomantic burning, so even if it penetrated it would do nothing at all to stormlight. Also hemallurgy requires both intent (so again thugbearer would need to be quite educated) and precise bind points to steal the abilities/attributes, you cannot just shoot it anywhere Thanks for these WoBs, I was not aware of them/forgot them. In my claim that metallic arts are now powered by Harmony and not by Ruin/Preservation I was working from following information: Sazed when killed would drop Harmony, as the shards of Ruin and Preservation are now intermingled. There is now only Harmonium, and it seems that neither Atium nor Lerasium are no longer naturally produced (although Lost Metal might provide more information on this). In light of those WoBs you linked I now dont know what to think. I can still see it going either way (ie. allomantic arts powered by only Harmony, so only one anti-tone is necessary, or two anti-tones to block both Ruin and Preservation). Ultimately blocking at least allomancy with just Preservation blocker would inhibit most offensive abilities, so it might be enough to provide some edge in battles.

You clearly do not understand them, if you did you would not be making claims you do. Also those equations have nothing to do with quantum physics, and relativity (special one, not general one) and quantum physics do mix quite well, that is what quantum field theory is (and arguments can be made that even general relativity can be taken as effective field theory), and quantum field theories are along with general relativity the best theories of nature we have. So your statement that relativity and quantum physics do not mix is laughable. I never said anything about zero energy/zero mass states (so I do not understand why are you bringing them up), I was always talking about rest mass/rest energy. For any massive object (i.e. one whose rest mass is non-zero) there is a reference frame where the totality of their energy is just the rest mass (as I have already explained multiple times). And no, those simple explanations you linked were not accurate, they were overtly simplistic and based on outdated understanding. I see you do not address the sources I have linked at all, and also you completely failed to address my further explanations. So for the last time, mass does not change with velocity, at best it qualitatively changes the gravitational field (in analogy with electromagnetic effects of moving charge), and any of your arguments based on assumption velocity increases mass are wrong. Ah, I have misunderstood then, you referenced soul-casting under my quotation, that is why I mentioned it. I do agree that applying division to air might be stretch, that is why I also offered the alternative of ground (also unless the armor covers Thugbearers entire body, they still have other options where to apply division). And I have said that I do agree that Nicrosil ferring might be able to store different kinds of investiture into different metalminds. The problem is A-Pewter is one kind of investiture, not multiple kinds of investiture, so they will not be able to split that. And the increased resistance to damage is directly contested by Wax himself in-story and by Brandon out-of-story as well. Also you do not have lingering ability after you stop tapping feruchemical store, either you have it, or you do not, so lingering durability makes no sense. Ruin and Preservation are no more, and are now intermingled into a new shard, Harmony. All metallic arts are now powered by this new shard Harmony, ergo to block all metallic arts you need only anti-Harmony suppressor. Different applications of stormlight (illusions, soulcasting, lashings) do have different tones, that is why alerter spren did not react to Shallan but did quite violently to Kaladin (also because illusions are not so "loud"). We do not know why Lift was not fully affected (as she could not use only Abrasion), and corruption of Sibling most likely has nothing to with that, as Sibling was not active prior to that (and lost ability to create Sibling light before bonding with Navani). Venli does not use warlight (at this moment), she can just power her abilities both with stormlight and with voidlight. But all the knowledge they amassed (effects of metals, mechanics of fabrial function, using of tones and rhythms) will not vanish, so all of that can still be used if necessary and greatly hasten development of more ethical fabrials. Or she will just convince Sibling that using non-sapiant spren for some time in fabrials is okay and they will mostly continue as now. Okay, even if the Skybreaker never hit the armor, they still have weight (shardplate ~600kg + 70kg Skybreaker) and potentially strength advantage (depending on how much is Thugbearer willing to deplete for one encounter) so from a simple consideration of momentums involved they would still most likely throw Thugbearer back (also, you are neglecting the fact that living blades can shapeshift). Pewter only doubles the users strength (or triples when flared), so to match the shardplate strength (~20 times the normal man at minimum) they would used up quite a lot of it, as to tap faster then storing is less efficient the further you try to push it. Also A-Pewter is a singular kind of investiture so indivisible into separate attributes. And the agents does not have feruchemical attributes, at most they have pewter attributes compressed from tapping them faster from nicrosil mind. Also if both applied maximum strength, I think the aluminum alloy bayonet would break first (we have no examples of shardblades breaking), which would be extremely bad for the Thugbearer. Also, if you assume the Thugbearer has plot armor of course they will win. They are not potentially ansibles they are ansibles right now. Its just that on a single continent there is not much difference between light speed, and instantaneous transfer. But the second they get of planet, they have tech to instantly communicate with their agents, and way to mass produce these devices (even Ghostbloods have to rely on enslaved Seons for such communications). The gap is not there (shapeshifting + multiple interlocking layers + they can eventually be made airtight, and it is mentioned in the book that there is no gap). Incendiary bullets generally are bad at armor penetration, and the ones you proposed are made of relatively light and soft metals, so would be even worse. And per WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3561) shardplates will resist bullets quite well (and that is deadplate, not living one). To break a single section (and remember there are multiple layers, so breaking one section does not get you to person beneath), would take Wax a coinshot at least 2-3 bullets in general circumstances per this WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/385/#e12595), and again that is deadplate, while our Skybreaker has living plate. To go into more detail, the incendiary bullets you proposed over at coinshot lasers topic, were made from Potassium->Magnesium->Aluminum (going outside in) with some metal jacket on top. In this thread you seem to imply that aluminum would be on the outside (to negate armor investiture), so we can take it as Aluminum layer -> Potassium -> Magnesium->Aluminum. Outside layer of aluminum would need to be some alloy, as pure aluminum is not hard enough to not get stripped immediately on contact (Mosh hardness 2.75), and I will assume that this alloy still has aluminum investiture negating properties (which is not given). This layer would be around ~0.5mm (based on usual bullet composition), and we know that thin aluminum would still get cut by shardblade, so shardplate is also harder than aluminum (same or similar godmetal alloys), so this outer layer would get stripped away on contact, or at best stripped as it partially penetrates one layer. Next we have potassium. Potassium is incredibly soft (Mosh hardness 0.4) so it will just splash itself on the armor, after the outer layer is gone. Its autoignition temperature on air is ~500K which is not achieved, so it will not start burning. If it did, it would burn with temp ~1100 K, which would be sufficient to ignite magnesium. If somehow the potassium ignited (maybe by adding small capsule with drop of water to the bullet?), the magnesium would ignite as well. However as it is also very soft (Mohs hardness 1.0-2.5) it would also not penetrate further in (the layers of shardplate they are in contact with are now again fully magical, as the outer layer aluminum was stripped when penetrating/partially penetrating the first layer. The magnesium burns at most at 3000K which is enough to ignite the final aluminum layer, which will burn at similar temperature. Now while aluminum negates investiture in direct contact, only some of its alloys do the same (example Duralumin, which does not negate investiture effects even though it is 90% aluminum), and we do not know if chemical compounds of aluminum retain that quality (I would say they do not, for the most part). This would mean that when aluminum starts burning, it stops being effective at stopping the magical component of shardplates, actually lowering the effectiveness of the bullets. We have established that due to comparative softness of the bullets composition it would not be able to mechanically penetrate the shardplate, even disregarding WoB on this topic. That means the only way for the bullet to get to Radiant would be to melt the armor to get in. Sadly we do not have melting points of godmetals, but this WoB (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/181/#e3797) hints that it would be probably pretty high (in the other question on this topic he started instead talking about distilling godmetals from mists). Tungsten has the highest melting point of ordinary metals at ~3400K, so I will assume that godmetal would be comparable. No metal in the bulllet burns with this temperature, so the armor would not be melted. In addition, usual 9mm bullet composed of lead weighs ~8g, the bullet proposed is made from materials which are at least 5 times lighter, so equal sized bullet would be ~1.6 grams. Even if the entire mass was aluminum/magnessium, and even if melting point of shardplate was lower than 3000K, the amount of heat produced from burning 1.6 gram of aluminum would not be enough to melt more than a few grams of the armor at best. Since shardplate weight around 600Kg, this would not even make a dent. In conclusion, the bullet would not do much most likely, at best temporarily and partially disabling one layer of one section of the plate. So no penetration -> no decapition, and our Thugbearer now faces 4th oath Skybreaker with no way to counter them and lost time assuming the bullet would disable them. And finally two points: 1) To remove investiture with aluminum requires intent (so our supertrained and equipped Thugbearer would also need to be trained in hemalurgy to take advantage of that) and it requires pure aluminum, so the burning effect would screw that up. 2) Allomantically burning aluminum removes investiture reserves, it is an active allomatic ability. Just setting it on fire does nothing at all, investiture wise.

Both sources are heavily simplifying (first seems to be targeted at highschoolers and is from 1996 and second is pop-sci), and are presenting information in misleading manner, if you are more knowledgeable than a second year undergrad at university. Einstein himself argued against the concept of relativistic mass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_in_special_relativity#Relativistic_mass_2). This wikipedia article is quite well written and illuminates most misunderstanding of the meaning of those equations, specifically the part on history of the concept of relativistic mass. I have addressed issues with velocity depended mass in gravitating systems in my previous answers, so I shall not repeat my point again, you can look it up. So for fifth time, gravitating mass is not depended on velocity, and your arguments are based on heavily misunderstanding of what the equations say. To get proper description of gravitational effects of a moving particle you need to go general relativity, special relativity is insufficient (Newton gravity assumes instantaneous effect, in conflict with special relativity). After doing calculations in general relativity you need to take weak field limit to recover something quasi-Newtonian (at this point single gravitational potential is no longer sufficient, and this alone tells you that direct comparison is no longer possible) and then you can get expression for acceleration particle would experience due to gravitational effects of this moving particle. Any effects due to velocity are suppressed by 1/c^2, so to get anything measurable you need to be moving at speed comparable to c. The acceleration would no longer be just along the line connecting the two particles, but would also contain orthogonal terms. This is due to the fact that proper source of gravitational field is not mass, but stress-energy-momentum tensor, and in off-diagonal terms of this tensor you get effects due to velocity (these effects are sometimes called gravitomagnetic, due to analogy with magnetic field generated by moving charge). Ultimately to then say "mass becomes greater with greater velocity" is incorrect, it would be like saying electrical charge of moving particle is different because its electromagnetic field is different from that of charge at rest. The thing that changes is the produced field, but that field is qualitatively different not quantitatively, and ultimately still depends on the same rest mass/density as the non-moving stress-energy-momentum tensor. I.e. the speed has effects, but does not change mass, and those effects are really complicated. Skybreaker would apply division to air, not soulcasting they do not have access to that, so no understanding of chemistry necessary. If they cannot target the air they could still target the ground. It is F-Tin that allows storage of different senses, it has nothing to do with A-Tin. So that is power specified for feruchemical tin (just like feruchemical copper is specific in how it can only store discrete things), for feruchemical nicrosil we have no such statements or evidence of being able to split singular investiture (in this example A-Pewter keyed) into different subsets. Your originally postulated bullets had aluminum on the inside not outside. Also all the elements are lighter and softer than most real life metals, so even if you have thin aluminum layer on the outside (which would again require knowledge of opponents armour) it would be quickly stripped by still hard godmetal (as all it would negate is the "magical component of hardness" and at the moment we do not know how large that is but per WoB shardblade could still go through aluminum unless it was thick enough). The rest would be stopped by now again fully magical armor. Also if even a thin layer of aluminum was this effective against shardplate, then Roshar would have discovered that long ago. They have easier access to aluminum (they can soulcast it) and had 4 millennia of motivation to find a cost effective way to kill shardbearers. Even ordinary soldiers equipped with some aluminum plated weaponry or armor could make a difference if it provided such advantage as you speculate, and yet they have nothing of the sort, not even the elite forces. I literally quoted that passage here few days ago, but in case i quote it again: "Waxillium dropped out of Wayne's bubble of speed and hit real time, the shift jostling him. The next few moment were a blur. He heard the awesome sound of the explosion above - it hit with a wave of force. He released his metalmind and Pushed against the nails in the floor below them, trying to slow himself and Marasi. He didn’t have enough time to do it well. They crashed into the floor of the next story down, and something heavy landed on them, driving the breath from Waxillium’s lungs. There was glaring brightness and a burst of heat. Then it was over. Waxillium lay dazed, ears ringing. " This is the entire description of their fall from the moment they crash through floor. He does not store weight, he just releases metalminds so he has his usual weight. He does state that he lied on his back and Marasi was on top of him about a page before this, so I was wrong on that. I do agree that Wayne shielded them from explosion. You also once again did not address my point on how it is realistic to fall ~4m without serious injury even without superpowers, so I still maintain that this is not example of increased resistance of injury (as it would go againts what Brandon intended his powers to be). From WoB we know that what A-bronze hears are close to Rhythms, since you can block all Rhythms at once (and different surges do produce different "sounds" as the reaction of voidspren differs), it stands to reason that you can block all metallic arts with one tone (as at the moment all three are now powered by Harmony). So, anti-Harmony suppressors would block all metallic arts (as even feruchemy requires a small amount of power to get going). I do think that in principle already made Hemalurgic constructs would still work, as I do not think they actively need access to Harmony to maintain their function, but this might be wrong. While Roshar is only developing anti radiant tech now, they had millennia to develop techniques to fight just Shardbearers. The genaral outcome of that is, just die, because even someone with deadplate and deadblade outclasses normal people by so much it is not even funny. They regularly kill tens to hundreds of people in a single battle, Kelsier had trouble with eight trained people. Now imagine just how much more powerful 4th oath Radiant of any order is, with shapeshifting blade and living plate + surges on top of that. I mean shardblades are designed to fight thunderclasts ~12-15 meters tall rock monsters, mistborn would have no chance against that. The problem is that to them, magic is science. Spren and surges are a part of their world, and so learning to manipulate them to achieve some effect is literally science/engineering. Just because their world has some things in addition to our, does not make science any different. Sure they will probably develop along different trajectories, but that does not mean they will not develop at all. Also I would bet that Rosharan understanding of chemistry will quickly takeover Scadrial, with soulcasting heavily helping them.

I mean, even Scadrial magic is dependent on being able to access Spiritual realm, so if you block that (like with suppresor fabrials in Urithiru), Scadrial magi-tech no longer works. On the other hand, fabrials are closer to "Alchemy" magic then Surgebinders, and are comparable to medallions. So I would say that both magic systems have elements of both, with Roshar leaning more towards Summoning magic (although I feel that is misleading, because after bonding a spren you no longer have to summon anything) and Scadrial leaning more towards Alchemical side. Also both can be countered in the same way, with properly configured suppressor fabrials. No, you are wrong, your claims go against modern understanding of physics and are simply wrong. Free fall is indistinguishable from being at rest, so it cannot have any effect on mass. Rest mass does not change with velocity (as it is invariant), total energy does but that is only relative to observer at rest. I can point you to some basic textbooks on general relativity, or just more advanced on special relativity if you want, but your claims are completely unsupported by modern physics. The description in the book states no such thing. They were both standing, with Marasi holding on to Wax. Then they crashed through the floor and fell on the next floor. Nowhere does it say that Wax reoriented himself to shield Marasi. And you did not address my points on how it is realistic to be okay after such a fall anyway. The description states that they can store investiture, or more precisely (based on our current understanding) ability to use investiture. Fourth sentence in Coppermind: " A Soulbearer storing Investiture stores their ability to use their Investiture." And your claim that they could divide a single power (A-Iron) is completely unsupported, even by analogy with Windwhisper. Closer analogy would be them being able to store different kinds of investiture in different metalminds (one for Breath, one for A-Iron etc.). Some aluminum alloys negate investiture and so cannot be cut as usual by shardblade. That does not mean that all alloys of aluminum provide the same effect (example, duralumin). So the bayonet would have to be made from specific alloy to negate investiture, and that alloy should also be of comparable strength to godmetal, so that it does not get destroyed by now just a regular big sword wielded by someone in what is effectively powered armor. We know deadplate can shapechange to match user, in WoR we have seen dead helmet shape and lock around a hand, and in RoW we have seen live plate move around at on the fly change to fit different people. To assume that it could simply actively shapechange when worn is basic logic, so the gap would be completely useless, since plate is clearly capable of changing its shape (contingent on having stormlight). The basic concept of shardplate is magical powered armor, so to compare it with historical armor, which did require gaps, is misleading. I mean, in WoR the deadplate can actively blot out lighting strikes to prevent blinding of the user, that is ridiculously advanced, having mobile neck connection is comparatively easy. Also even though their aluminum armor would provide protection against direct magical effects, they could still simply set the air around on fire, or the ground, or their non-aluminum items. And getting hit by a shardblade wielded by someone in shardplate would still most likely throw them back just from momentum. I must partly disagree with this. Modern guns use self-oxidizing ammunition, so the effect of increased oxygen content would be indirect (i.e. hot shell casings might set stuff on fire). I do not know enough guns to be able to say if ~Era 2 Scadrial has such guns, but since it seems that gunpowder in general is self-oxidizing it seems like a safe assumption. The potential risk for Scadrian would be hyperoxia, or poising by oxygen, but that would require Roshar's atmosphere to be have oxygen content greater than 40%, which is most likely not the case. Speed of consumption of Stormlight depends on oath level, and it is possible that Shardplate also provides some benefits, but it is too soon to tell. At this point we don't know enough to say if passive stormlight use (just holding it) of a 4th level Radiant in shardplate consumes it faster than A-Pewter burning or no. Personally I would lean that stormlight is still being consumed faster, but not drastically so, maybe 1.2 times faster (and yes I have absolutely nothing to support this other than my gut feeling). I think you are thinking too small, why not soulcast atmosphere to contain 55% of oxygen and just watch the fireworks? (altough this might be more strenuous on the Elsecaller).

Sorry for double post, forgot to reply to this. So you argue that if he was pushing on something on the same level as he (so horizontally, not vertically) it would not have the same effect? That is a good point, and I could see that being the case. There might be counterexamples in the books, but I have not read them in a while, so I cannot tell.

No, what is physical fact is that total energy increases with velocity (because it is not an invariant). You can than choose to interpret that it means mass increases, however that is problematic when you invoke gravity (i.e. within general relativity), as that would imply moving object fast enough could turn it into a black hole, violating basic principle of general relativity (because to someone moving with the object, it is at rest, its energy did not increase and so it did not turn into black hole -> now you have a problem, one person claims "There is a black hole here!" and the other one doesnt.). When you are falling your mass does not increase, as you are in free-fall which is equivalent to being at rest (this is the most basic principle of general relativity), so your mass is just your rest mass. I am aware that four-velocity is constant, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what is being talked about. So again, increase in velocity actually does not lead to increase in gravitational mass. That still ignores the fact that Marasi was also uninjured, despite not tapping iron. Your statement goes both against what Wax states, and what Brandon himself stated was his intention. Your scenario relies also relies on four things: 1) That somehow, the Thugbearer would be ideally equipped to fight Radiants on a recon mission to gather information about Radiants? The ability to equip him that ideally would imply they are already aware of some abilities and limitations of Radiants. 2) That F-nicrosil allows storage of kinetic investiture + ability to somehow divide that investiture into different abilities. The second part is not as crucial, but the first one is very important. 3) That aluminum alloys are equally resistive to cutting effects of shardblades as pure aluminum. While some alloys of aluminum are allomantically inert (i.e. some bullets used in Era 2), that does not necessarily imply that alloy would have the same effect in other magic systems. Also even if they are, someone in Shardplate is stronger then a Thug (unless they tapped large part of their reserves, but why would they do that if they do not know what shardplate is and does?) so they Skybreaker would most likely overpower Thugbearer, unless they reacted fast enough. 4) Existence of gap between helmet and armour, which most likely does not exist for the living armour. (even dead plate can seal the visor and shape itself around user, why would there be a gap allowing such easy kill?)