therunner

Good point, but Roshar has 10 years till TLM, and they are advancing rather quickly at the moment. And with the recent discovery of aluminum effects on fabrials + effects of gems of different sizes they could feasibly create something that changes linear motion to rotating motion. Or you know, just make an ordinary mechanism to that. Now of course they also have to create a fabrial generating that linear motion in the first place, but they already have attractor fabrials, so you can set up two of them on opposite ends of some tube, and then have them alternate when they are turned on. They have clocks so timing mechanism could be created for this purpose. TA-DA, motor powered by Stormlight, and it is ecological! We have internet/jet engines/advanced rockets, Scadrial at TLM does not. They don't even have phones yet, and only limited telegraphs. And a lot of the more advanced tech in basin (i.e. radio/rockets) were first discovered by Set (who had help from Autonomy) and only later replicated by the Basin folk, who had access to working examples. E.g. as it stands Fourth Bridge is in some ways more advanced than what Malwish have, but deficient in others, and both are powered by fabrials. And while Scadrial is advancing their 'ordinary' technology, Roshar won't stand still and their advancement will take them more in direction of 'esoteric' sciences related to Cognitive and Spiritual realms. Probably both will have some stronger areas, and weaker areas, owing to their different focuses. And I would not say their reliance on Investiture has stunted their advancement, they were barely bronze age civilization 4500 years ago (Heralds had to re-teach them how to cast bronze, and later Desolations were nearly back to back not giving time to integrate and develop the knowledge), when Taln was betrayed. On top of that they have to contend with super-hurricane every ~2 weeks, considering that they are doing about as you would expect, accounting for distortions caused by existence of e.g. soulcasters. Right now they can create vacuum tubes, have advanced mathematics (mostly focused on harmonics and others, which makes sense considering their dominant religion), are theorizing along the lines of quantum physics (WoR, interludes with ardents), and of course are quickly advancing with fabrials. In a sense Roshar represents the 'magi-tech' counterpart to Basin and Scadrial as a whole (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/460/#e14623). Sure lack of Stormlight off-world is going to be a problem, and will create single/two-fold point of failure in Bondsmiths. Supply lines of infused gems through Cognitive will be a limiting factor. Both of these were discussed and acknowledged on previous pages. Purified Investiture will eventually help with this, but that is far in the future, even those 3 jars of Dor were only an emergency measure. And equally, I think everyone does acknowledge that regular Rosharan troop would have 'difficulty' (which is putting it lightly) against Scadrian troops, that is why a lot of discussion centers around using Radiants to destroy Scadrian production abilities and equipment + disrupt supply lines. Because Scadrian soldier with a gun but no bullets (or bullets but broken gun) is suddenly a lot worse than Rosharan soldier with only a spear and a shield. And your thoughts are appreciated. But I don't think there is a need for snark. If you don't think others are discussing honestly, you don't need to participate.

To elaborate on what @Ookla the Frustrated. said, Shardblades are inherent part of Radiant magic system, you cannot be 3rd Oath Radiant and not have Shardblade. Access to metals for Mistborn is more like access to Stormlight, with the distinction that for each ability Mistborn requires specific metals, and some (like Atium) are exceedingly rare to non-existent. And even when Atium existed, it was produced in quantities which were roughly ~hours of burning Atium for single person in a year (if you managed to collect all of it, which would be time-consuming and painful), so Atium is by far the most limited resource, and not all Mistborn even had it available, and those that did typically used it only against other Mistborn (because those had it too) and because they had enough for a minute at most. All of these discussion are kind-of impossible, but the discussion is typically always framed as Mistborn + all metals (and minus Atium) vs 3rd oath Radiant. And in principle Spook could have been such Mistborn, though Radiant would not have been overlapping exactly in time frame Well Marsh is only over 6 feet tall, not that makes much difference considering his abilities. While he has atium, he cannot really afford to use it in combat, because he needs it to stay alive, and has very limited supply. But he has F-steel, and if he has enough stores, that would do a lot, the only way Radiant could defend against that is stay high in the air where F-steel won't help Marsh. But if they both start on the ground, F-steel takes the day. I'd say that Shardblade is not necessary win con for 3rd Oath Windrunner, just the best option. If for whatever reason they would not use or have blade, but had e.g. regular spear and some shield, their tactics should shift to using their superior mobility and ranged options to wear down the Mistborn first, then use reverse lashing to partially immobilize them/limit their movement and go for the kill. More time-consuming but still doable I think, maybe ~70% ish amount of time, terrain pending? I think Windrunner is better flier in every terrain, as long as they have experience with it, they simply have far superior method of flight, as they can do everything Mistborn can and more. Edit: On pewter, I think it gives definitely better strength, a bit better proprioception and speed, but on agility and reflexes they are about on par, or close enough to not make much difference. Healing of course is far better in Stormlight. I think Stormlight will protect Windrunner to some extent against soothing/rioting, but not completely and not against duraluminum fueled attacks. We know that it is more difficult to affect more heavily Invested beings, and Radiants are comparatively heavily Invested, so it stands to reason it would limit the allomancy, but not completely negate it. Chromium and leeching are definitely among the best tools against Radiant, but require to get close, which is a risky proposition. And I don't think drinking more metals is an issue, they could just have vials carrying all relevant metals together (i.e. steel/iron, chromium, pewter, brass, zinc, electrum, bendalloy). I think given enough Stormlight head popped could be healed, as it works the same way F-Gold does and that can do it given enough Investiture. Whether the Radiant has enough Stormlight to do it is another question, but as the regrowth would take time, during which Mistborn can keep attacking I think we can treat popped head like a win for Mistborn. I would not say Shardblades are 'routinely' worked around in the books. The few people who do manage to get around them are either Invested and supernaturally skilled (Kaladin) Arguably the deadliest melee warrior on planet outside of Immortals (Dalinar) best Duelist with deadblades (Adolin) or Shardbearers who trained most of their lives to get used to Shardblades, and they are the best warriors in their armies So, around 1 in 100 000 can get around the blade, and most of them only if they have blade of their own. If only one side has blade, then it is effectively only Dalinar (who only stopped one attack) and Kaladin. And that is getting around deadblade which cannot shapeshift in the middle of the combat, cannot be thrown and re-summoned immediately, cannot use skipping and other techniques. I mean, even on Mistborn side Atium was worked around by someone who did not have any, and we don't use that as an example. And there no one could even train against atium to try and see what could be done, unlike millennia of known and developed techniques for Shardblades, which is knowledge the aforementioned people use, and Mistborn would not have. Oh, there have been long threads dedicated to that discussion There is a new thread on that, but it is in TLM section.

Well, one has godmetal equipment / being as the centerpoint of their abilities, and the other only has abilities because someone used godmetal in the past so, we have only two people fighting? Seriously though, Shardblades are inherent part of 3rd Ideal Windrunner power-set, taking them away is like saying Mistborn minus pushes/pulls.

I think aluminum chainmail would introduce the same issues, as it again blocks Investiture and Connection. It might be better then plate, in that it would not introduce the sort of "bubble" effect the deadplate would, however since hat lined with aluminum is sufficient to block riotiong and soothing, I think aluminum also has similar bubble effect, so it would again interfere with the external Allomancy. Additionally, pulls/pushes go from center of mass, which would be covered by aluminum, so it would most likely be fully blocked, or the pushes/pulls would work in odd ways.

Plate would definitely block the external Invested arts https://wob.coppermind.net/events/181/#e3830 , the only reason Radiants don't have that issue is because it is their living Plate, see WoB https://wob.coppermind.net/events/478/#e15130 , and also it is in the books. Edit: This is the specific WoB I had in mind https://wob.coppermind.net/events/105/#e1214 , relating to books and Szeth comments. So Deadplate would just block the Invested Arts as it is not keyed to the Mistborn, and would rob Mistborn of Leeching (the only active way they have of removing Stormlight) and any other ability that goes from Mistborn to something external (i.e. pushes/pulls, rioting/soothing, nicrosil/leeching, etc.). Also, I doubt that A-Pewter and Deadplate strength speed would be additive, Deadplate acts kind of like powered armor, so it is more like the person inside guides the movements, but it is the plate that does the work, strength of the wielder is irrelevant. It would probably help a bit with reflexes and agility, but to what extent is a question as plate improves those as well. So Plate while providing more defense to the Mistborn would take away majority of their mobility, their subversive tactics (rioting/soothing) and some of their offensive abilities (leeching/nicrosil/coinshots), all for defense against several hits from Shardblade. Also, after a couple of hits Radiant could just wait until the Plate leaks the Stormlight and the plate locks up, trapping the Mistborn.

Good on you for acing the test Also, keep that confidence but remind yourself that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer (DD reference) Additional point on Mistborn in plate, they would definitely be unable to use A-steel/A-iron (plate blocks foreign Investiture/Surges/powers), unable to use rioting/soothing without opening the helmet, A-pewter would be of minor consequence (because Shardplate provides all the benefits and more). So only remaining powers would be A-electrum, and bendalloy. Even if somehow retracting the helmet allowed them to push/pull they are now wearing at a minimum quarter ton of armor, so they will not be able to move as they are used to. I think Mistborn in deadplate would be actually worse off than without it. Mistborn with deadblade, Windrunner still has advantage, because the living blade can skip (i.e. dismiss to 'phase' through opponents sword) which is a technique impossible with deadblade (10 heartbeats). It would force Windrunner to be more careful, and limited their advantage in close quarters, but not enough to skew the outcome that much. Scadrians have even by Era 1 intermingled enough that differences between Nobles and Skaa was almost gone, outside of more allomnatic potential in nobles. So average Mistborn is of average Scadrian height, which I guess is something like ~175 cm, a bit more but similar to human average on earth pre-ww1. I would say that while we do have evidence stormlight does increase strength, we also have a clear ceiling on what it does not do, and that is triple strength or even double it in my opinion. I would say it does maybe something like 1.5x at most, but even that feels like too much, but maybe for outlier (like Vin).

Typically it is taken that later WoBs overwriter earlier ones (as Brandon can change his mind on things of course), so later WoB on Windrunner vs Mistborn would take precedence. Of course, Kaladin does beat Szeth as completely fresh 3rd Oath Windrunner, so based on that WoB you quoted all we can say is that both Mistborn and 3rd Oath Radiant beat experienced wielder of Honorblade. Of course later WoBs then give us that Windrunner 3rd Oath beats Mistborn in a straight up fight. There is a need to manage Lashings, but Windrunners do that all the time in a fight, look at start of RoW. Also you can cancel Lashing and reclaim the Stormlight from it, so it is not too wasteful. And they can simply Lash themselves at first, and then use half-Lashing to just continue to move while in effective zero-g. Also, Mistborn movement does not work like you describe, they don't instantly stop. They can stop quickly if pushing hard enough, but that is also because they are not moving all that fast typically, so the required acceleration is smaller. And they could exactly cancel the momentum only if there was suitable anchor (or set of them) in place. Windrunner can replicate what Mistborn does, by applying multiple Lashings at first, and then cancelling them all/in small batches (i.e. getting a big initial push/pull, and then moving under effect of gravity), of course while not limited by presence of metals. If they then need to change directions, they could do the same, exactly like Mistborn does. So, Windrunner can do everything Mistborn does and much more. Experienced Windrunner would catch Mistborn, even in low streets of Elendel. Well, Adolin and Dalinar are among the best melee fighters in Cosmere, so...yeah of course they put up a fight. And they are used to fighting Shardbears so they know what to expect on top of that. Pewter burning Mistborn would definitely have faster reaction times, but they would lack some experience + living blade can shapeshift. On how better would Mistborn reflexes be, we don't really have exact numbers, but it is not as pronounced as the strength improvements (that is the main benefit), so it is not like they have halved reaction times. Tin won't do anything for reaction times. It will give some anchor temporarily, until the Reverse Lashing runs out (or is dismissed), and then it will be suddenly removed, which could have disastrous consequences. As stated previously, Radiant can easily have 12 hours worth of permanent flight of Stormlight on a person, even when burning fast, they have hours of it easily. And they don't have to draw in all of it at once, some can be kept in a sphere. So, far more than Bendalloy. If there is no metal (only what MIstborn carries), they have such limited mobility they are basically sitting duck. Windrunner could kill them just by lashings items at them and waiting till they run out of Bendalloy and Electrum for dodging those. Or throwing sprenblade lance at them, and summoning as needed. And don't discount Stormlight enhancements, while not to the same extent as pewter they are still considerable (as far as reflexes, agility goes). In this scenario Windrunner looses only if they make some horrible mistake, or intentionally don't fight as hard as they could. Gun would improve chances, but that is a statement about gun not Mistborn. Assuming fully drawn Nightblood. If Nightblood works closely enough like Leechers, then it would pretty much immediately burn through the flakes in Mistborn's stomach (even when not burning) and then kill them. https://wob.coppermind.net/events/390/#e12749 Nightblood being 'full' is not related to him being invested, he only stops feeding when he gets full, which apparently is when he kills Vessel (so, consumes more Investiture then we have ever seen any person hold, well maybe Vin when she wielded Well or was Ascending). In fact Nightblood is effectively over-Invested all the time, the black smoke he leaks is 'degraded' Investiture he consumed (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/452/#e14511). Nightblood is a thing Shards and Hoid are afraid of, sentiment that is not replicated for either Leechers or Larkin. Also, unlike Leechers or Larkin, Nightbloods feeding is powerful enough to consume Innate Investiture of a person (that is what would end up killing the wielder). Additionally, the speed with which Nighblood consumes Investiture increases the longer he is drawn. And finally Lift barely had any Lifelight at that point (she did not eat in a while, and that is how she creates her Light), whereas Szeth was full of Stormlight. So I think we can comfortably say Nightblood consumes more, and faster then both Larkin and Leechers. And again, Scadrial is low-investiture world, so if Nightblood takes a while to eat through Szeth stores of Stormligh, he would eat through Mistborn far faster. I don't think just being able to parry the blade would be enough, there are techniques to get around that, 'skipping' the blade. And if Windrunners are training among themselves, they would have experience with weapon getting blocked, so it would not make much difference. Enough Atium is definitely an 'I-win' button, even smaller amount (i.e. ~30 seconds) would be enough if the Windrunner does not know about it. Outside of Atium, Mistborn needs at minimum F-gold and bunch of metalminds to be able to heal at least some Shardblade severed limb. Then they need either something to consistently keep Windrunner away to waste their Stormlight, or that would allow them to get closer in a safe manner, and the only thing from Scadrial that would do that is F-steel, which is broken on its own (with large enough stores). So I think Mistborn with F-gold would have better chances, but Windrunner would still edge them out (unless Mistborn had ridiculously large amount of health stored). If Mistborn also had F-steel and stores that would allow them to ~3 their speed comfortably for a minute, that would do it for their victory. Could you link that WoB? The only one I found (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/190/#e4072) mentions that he would see atium shadows, not gold ones (gold is internal metal), which well, that is what atium does normally as well.

Since Brandon has not yet revealed how Medallions are made, and probably won't for a while based on his comments, I have a new theory in light of this WoB First, what do we actually know about Medallions? Medallions are also known as unsealed metalminds, metalminds that anyone can access Medallion has a nicrosil component (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/316/#e11247) Medallion creation most likely requires F-duralumin (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/122/#e3345) Medallion creation requires "Excisor" Medallion creation is easier with Hemalurgy (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/479/#e15152) Medallion containing multiple powers is difficult (if not impossible) to make, with 3 being top The theory won't be about the full creation process, only about role of Excisor and how Medallions differ from metalminds. Based on the WoB, Medallions are not 'just' objects but have measure of life-force/Identity of their own, over that of usual Metalminds (so it is not just result of being Invested). I think that Excisor extracts part of the spiritweb of the creator of the Medallion, specifically the part that 'controls' the power. Note, not the ability to use Investiture itself, but another part of the soul that is about the volition to use the ability. This fragment of spiritweb is then attached/inserted into the Nicrosil portion (possibly through use of F-duralumin?) and grants the Nicrosil ring a limited volition to use the power, sort of like Awakener can imbue something with breath has measure of will. Final step would be to make the Nicrosil-ring and attached spiritweb 'sticky' (possibly again F-duralumin, or the original holder would have to tap unkeyed metalmind with Connection), so that it sees itself as part of whoever is holding the Medallion (similar to how Ishar Connected Windrunners to ground, and Stormlight tried to fill them). Nicrosil ring modified like this can then sort of attach itself to the spirit web of the holder, and will allow tapping of the powers. The fact that that there is also this partial spiritweb with volition also allows for Medallions to be tapped even when sleeping, as basically the holder of Medallion makes Command to tap, and then the spiritweb of Medallion takes over. Edit: Also Honorblades are self-aware to some extent (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15901) and the way they functions was linked to Medallions before (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/331/#e9408) so this would support that Medallions are self-aware to some extent as well, and might actually be what is directing the power. This would also explain why Medallions with multiple powers are very difficult to make. We know that holding multiple Invested Powers results in interference (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3440), resulting in e.g. Twinborn and appearance of Ferrings, and there is a reason why there are no Mistings with e.g. 5 powers (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3401). Similar effect then would happen in Medallion, where they would have to splice together multiple spiritwebs with different powers, and that splicing would be difficult if not impossible beyond certain number (as TLM Ars Arcanum suggests for Hemalurgy). It would also explain how Hemalurgy would be useful, as it could be used to spike out this part of the spiritweb (though how to transfer it into metalmind, I don't know). Also how excisor does this, and exactly it is, I don't know, this is more of an attempt at explaining the potential role it plays. I would wager Excisor is specialized Medallion/fabrial using F-duralumin, F-Aluminum and F-nicrosil. This then leaves the question of what is going with Bands of Mourning (especially since Kelsier is not Mistborn, nor Feruchemist), but I have separate theory for that (shameless plug).

I agree, as far as I remember the stories were absent. I think TenSoon mentions the reason was that Kandra were working to eradicate that knowledge? They don't want anyone to know, and TLR might have been working towards that himself (so that no one would subvert his constructs). And while Bondsmith abilities would definitely allow them to break into and control Kandra (or Koloss, and possibly anyone sufficiently spiked), questions is how difficult to find that out is, is it sufficient to Connect to Kandra, or is something more required?

Per WoB what Ashynites had was slightly different magic system, but basically the same as Surges https://wob.coppermind.net/events/256/#e8690 , so calling it Surgebinding makes sense. Fused also use Surges despite the details and expression being different (i.e. Surge of Transportation is the best example) and that is still Surgebinding proper (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/460/#e14640 ) per in-World non-Rosharan understanding. Fair point in the singing of Singers, that would be a method of applying Surges. However I would not classify the symbiotic relationship of lesser spren and animals the same way, that is not Invested Art per se

They are precisely god-metal, some alloy of Tanavastium and Koravelium, ratios depending on type of spren. And here we run into, how much bendalloy does Mistborn have? Because reverse lashing is the "cheapest" Surge of Windrunner, while bendalloy burns fast and is expansive on top of that. Wayne typically has what, minutes at best? So Windrunner can defend better against ranged attacks then Mistborn can. Yeah, but then we are discussing that guns are dangerous weapons, not that Mistborn are stronger then Windrunners don't we? Regular person with aluminum gun and bullets could shoot Mistborn dead quite easily, but that has no bearing on combat abilities of Mistborn vs regular human. Also reverse lashings are strong enough to bend bullet paths (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3523 the quote has Full lashings, but that makes no sense, as you cannot touch a bullet in flight + we have seen how strong Reverse Lashings can be when it tore off head of Pursuer). Surges would not affect aluminum anything, aluminum is investiture inert/opaque, so Aluminum bullets would help in the sense they would have to be dodged or just move around too fast to get hit easily. (Sidenote: Windrunner could Invest their own Shards, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/478/#e15130 , so Sprenblade with Reverse lashing is viable strategy). And how long before they notice the button/belt is behaving weirdly and strongly pressing against their skin, and decide to remove them? Or they could just turn sideways, and the button would tear off. Gravitation works exactly as the name implies, you redirect the direction of the gravitational pull, and its magnitude. So momentum, inertia applies (just like for Mistborn). Thrust/being pulled there is no difference for the object, all that matters is the resulting acceleration and the potential directions, and Windrunner has more potential directions to choose from (every single one) and arbitrary acceleration (Multiple lashings, semi-linear cost increase if on one-self or partial lashings). Mistborn with push/pull has more options than just Coinshot or Lurcher, but compared to Windrunner they are horribly limited. Windrunners causally levitate, walk on walls/ceilings, outrun hurricanes etc. And that was experience on Scadrial (low-Investiture world, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/152/#e2801), against Metalborn with a couple of metal flakes inside them (so very little). We know non-invested metals go before Invested ones and Chromium burns about as fast as Duralumin (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/101/#e881), that full metalmind would take a while to leech. And as @Werewolff Studios pointed out Szeth was wielding Nightblood for a while before it sucked him dry of Stormlight, and Nightblood would be working faster. So, duralumin-Leeching might take away the Stormlight immediately, but then the Mistborn is also left with A-pewter (as they needed the strength for grappling) and any other metal they were burning. Regular Leeching would take some time, based on various information. Full metalminds are better at blocking Sprenblade (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/75/#e4363), and living matter interacts differently with Sprenblade that non-living one (i.e. you can swing Sprenblade through a spren in 'human' form, but when they are blade they resist). They will see Radiant, and notice that he is Invested yes the moment he breathes in Stormlight. They won't notice the blade until they summon it, and won't know it cannot be blocked by regular items. And when Mistborn comes in close, to Leech they would have to overcome the blade first, where if they decide to block it with their daggers, they would get nasty surprise. And afterwards they might be shocked to discover that leeching does not remove all Investiture immediately, unfamiliar situation they were not counting on. Meanwhile Windrunner is seeing an enemy that can weirdly and poorly fly (seen that), shoots metalbits from distance (weird, but ok, they know ranged projectiles are a thing), and maybe that their emotions are acting a bit weird (partially familiar, Stormlight has cognitive effects, some may have experience Thrill, some may have been messed with by Odium). They can use reverse lashing to defend against projectiles, maybe fire a few things using Lashings and then try and move in close for a kill with a Blade. They could see enemy sometimes blurring, and appearing a few feet sideways (ok, teleportation we have dealt with Fused like that), so could try and fire multiple projectiles at once in a cluster, i.e. shotgun approach. At the end of the day, Windrunner only has to either hit Mistborn with Shardblade anywhere in a spine, or deliver deadly blow with a Lashing and they win. Every hit they land will hinder Mistborn for the rest of the fight (they might ignore pain and work a bit better then they should, but A-pewter is not healing), so in prolonged fight (i.e. half an hour) they have advantage, as Stormlight is keeping them fully healed and ready. Additionally, Windrunner are used to dealing with enemies that can heal (Fused) so they know they must inflict as much damage as possible to exhaust their stores, every Invested enemy they fought has healing, so they would probably assume Mistborn does as well. Comparatively Mistborn has to first drain the Windrunner or outlast them (with worse mobility, and limited ways to get away not a great chance), then either get close to finish them or (if they still have metals) use A-steel to pepper them with whatever metal they still have. It seems to me that one side has more and more easily achievable win conditions, while also having superior defensive options (healing, ranged defense), so that side should win much more often. Similar outcome is pointed to in the WoBs https://wob.coppermind.net/events/4/#e1432 , https://wob.coppermind.net/events/35/#e5018 .

Typically I think most consider "basic" loadout, i.e. daggers (maybe a handgun if Era 2), clothing, mistcloak and belt with vials for Mistborn; clothing (i.e. basic uniform), some small dagger/weapon, and spheres sown into clothing, maybe pouches. Medallions would not be included, as they require different magic system to create. If we included those, we would have to start including fabrials and other Rosharan inventions, and that way lies madness (or Scadrial vs Roshar thread post-TLM). Well, most fights in Era 1 included Vin/Kelsier (where Kelsier stole atium from pits when he destroyed it, so he had outsized supply), Inquisitors (which get it directly from TLR, so directly from supplier) or scions of the richest houses. No need to sell Kelsier shorts as Skaa thief, nor Vin, as she was member of his crew and only other Mistborn in it. Typically they mention that having enough atium for a minute or two is a lot. And again, that was Era 1, in Era 2 Mistborn get exactly no Atium. That depends, who was faster reaction times? But importantly, you don't have to touch an object for it to be affected by Reverse Lashing (see arrows in TWoK), so Windrunner could put down Reverse Lashing with Intent to pull in metal (or glass), and boom, vials are of the belt. At most they would have buttons and belts on uniform. And since the push goes only against metal, they would get torn of quickly, I doubt they are sewn on hard enough to carry the combined weight of Mistborn and Windrunner. So, no Mistborn cannot keep them away like this. No mobility is in Windrunners favor because They are not dependent on external factor for directions in which they can move. They can accelerate arbitrarily fast (multiple lashings, and they can be placed simultaneously), until they faint from the strain. Admittadly, here duralumin fueled push combined with pewter has advantage, but Mistborn is heavily limited in how often they can do it, and lack fine control. Can use lashings to lower effective weight similar to F-Iron. Mistborn is worse in every single way when it comes to mobility, with one single edge case exception. Leeching is not instaneous, and Scadrial is low-investiture world compared to Roshar. It is entirely likely that it would take a second or two to fully drain Windrunner. Even if not, getting close requires getting around Shardblade, and if for some reason they did not summon it, and Mistborn graples Windrunner, as long as Windrunner has literally any weapon on their person (or steals dagger from Mistborn), they can kill Mistborn with a single stab. Leading to mutual kill. And Windrunner can turn any rock or rubble into a shot from a sling. 5 seconds would not be enough, if Windrunner has even basic information about Mistborn (which Mistborn seems to know the best way to kill Radiant, so they probably do too). Also, heavily Invested objects behave similarly to aluminum (non-pushable, not visible to steal sight, block rioting/soothing, etc.) and aluminum is not visible for Atium, it is possible that Shardblade would not leave atium shadows. If so, that would be a bit of a handicap, thought not as large. Also as mentioned, medallions are result of different magic system, so out of scope of discussion (unless we allow fabrials for Windrunner, which however changes the topic.).

Strictly speaking original method to access Surgebinding is something from Ashyn, possibly facilitated by Odium and/or some Dawnshard. They did wield Surges back then and destroyed Ashyn with them. Honorblades would be the second method then.

Not really, sprenblade is regular part of the get-up, like ability to burn metals. Atium is rare in Era 1 thanks to the Hold (where having enough for a minute is a fortune, and not even all Mistborn are equiped with it) and non-existent in Era 2. Except Koloss are far more dumb, less nimble and dexterous than Radiants? Fighting those is quite a different thing. Windrunner would be doing maneuvers that would kill Mistborn, that gives them additional edge on top of all the other advantages they have (i.e. only direct advantage Mistborn has is A-pewter, A-electrum and maybe rioting/soothing). It is not really about fairness, it is about abilities and survivability, and Windrunner is definitely above Mistborn there. Less versatile sure (Windrunner assassin would be quite bad at being sneaky, or finding the target), but in a straight-up fight 3rd Oath Windrunner is far beyond the Mistborn. Windrunner can take hits, Mistborn cannot. Windrunner can move in ways Mistborn cannot. Windrunner can move at speeds Mistborn cannot. Windrunner can deflect ranged attacks (outside of aluminum), Mistborn can only with metal (and non-invested at that). Windrunner has far superior melee weapon. And windrunner is reliant only on Stormlight not metal vials (which could be taken away by Reverse Lashing possibly, similar to Pursuers head).

Well, forming perpendicularity the "hard way" requires a lot of power concentrated in a small place, and even Bands of mourning are not even approaching the necessary quantities. Gathering invested people together is not going to be enough, not by a long shot (otherwise large gathering of Radiants would be opening perpendicularities all the time, they are far more invested then Mistings), even Set (who had help from Autonomy) was gathering a lot of raw Investiture into artificial Shardpool. And finally, Scadrial lacks the realmatic knowledge to know to even try for this. At best they could try to replicate what Set was doing, but that required help from Autonomy, so they would not succeed.

Atium is I win button against 3rd Oath, if there is enough atium, on that I think most agree. But without Atium? Mistborn has to do everything right, because one mistake and it is over for them, whereas Windrunner has room to make those mistakes.

Just a quick note, the perpendicularity forming was due to Autonomy, which can open perpendicularities when they should not be able to (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/509/#e15948), though some preconditions are apparently necessary. So, without influence of Autonomy that perpendicularity would not form. Hence that is something Scadrial could not make use of. It hurts Scadrial in the sense that without Harmony's perpendicularity they have no way to access CR, and so cannot attack or harass Rosharan supply lines, or pursue units which retreat there, or strike strategic targets stashed there (i.e. Dalinar).

Similarly, Windrunner Lashes them in the air, one touch is all it takes? Can Mistborn survive fall from thousands of feet? And before they can touch Windrunner, they need to get in melee range, and again Mistborn cannot heal. One good stab is all it takes to kill Mistborn. Slings are surprisingly powerful weapons. Also those were boulders the size of human head, thrown by slings wielded by Warform, which are typically 2-3x stronger than humans. And as @Ookla the Frustrated. pointed out, it did barely any damage. Also don't assume 4th Windrunner is just standing there, they can fly and move in general faster than Mistborn. How much metal does Mistborn have around?, Also only duralumin pushes would break Plate, regular ones cannot even get through wooden shields. Also Reverse Lashings. Also Plate catches the run-off. Windrunner is faster and more maneuverable, and in plate also comparably agile, they will catch Mistborn faster than they run out. No he does, It is described in Oathbringer. Also by singing Song of Prayer any singer (or arguably anyone with connection to Odium) can generate Voidlight. Not really no, as stated previously just spheres carried on person were enough for 12 hours of non-stop flight for over a thousand miles. Apply 12 lashings non-stop and you still have enough Stormlight for an hour, and that is 3rd Oath. Electrum is of limited ability, it shows you only the one immediate future. Also against area attacks or attacks which are faster it would do little, and blade would not cut flesh on first hit anyway. And bendalloy burns really fast, so you cannot spam it to dodge things. Also the bubbles are ~12 feet across. So do Radiants, and Plate improves upon that further. Can the Mistborn have hour worth of Atium? Also if the Mistborn is not burning it all the time, they can misjudge or not notice danger and get killed. With a lot of experience, Wayne has only learned that after what, 20 years? Stormlight is occasionally described as providing superhuman strength. It is definately not as pronounced as pewter, but the effect is there. Electrum would show nothing, the blade does not cut flesh on the first hit.

Just to note, Shardplate enhances the strength circa 10-20 times, and also enhances speed, reaction times and agility. I.t. Shardbearer is kind of like A-pewter except far stronger. 1st oath Windrunner I agree, but for 2nd I disagree. As @Werewolff Studios mentioned we have seen 2nd Oath Windrunner (thought it was Kaladin) effectively fight against fighters in Shardplate, which gives everything A-pewter does and more. Also while not possessing insta kill weapon, they would still have a weapon, and Mistborn cannot heal unlike Windrunner. So while Mistborn would still edge out without Atium, I think it would be more like 60-70% in favor of Mistborn. I would argue that 4th Ideal Windrunner wins effectively 100% of the time, unless Mistborn has so much atium it lasts longer than all of Stormlight (i.e. enough atium for hour or more, as 4th Oath are more effective at holding and using Stormlight + Plate catches the run-off). Plate negates rioting and soothing, Plate can be fully sealed to become airtight (so Mistborn has to break it first) and can be damaged only by Duralumin fueled pushes or Pewter hits (and those would be even more risky, as now Windrunner has physical abilities beyond Pewter). With or without Atium, Mistborn simply lacks the tools to get through Plate properly, lose the edge of A-pewter, cannot leach Radiant (would leach Plate instead) and cannot use Soothing or Rioting with Duralumin to throw Windrunner of balance. Well, there is a reason Odium went after Surgebinders for his Cosmere army They are already beasts on the battlefield, now imagine what they would be like if they were supplied by light directly, like Odium can do with Fused. Well they lack the ease now, but (SoTD sequel spoilers) Actually, while common, being broken is not per-requisite but as it is common, I would say it is safe to assume some damage is there. Definitely duralumin rioting/soothing would have an effect, but I wonder to what extent. Radiants holding Stormlight are much more Invested than Mistborn burning metals which will make them more difficult to effect, and on top of that holding Stormlight also has cognitive effects, so it would be like rioting/soothing someone who is already being affected by something. I wonder how that would interact.

That assumes Windrunner is waiting for summing the blade until Mistborn is within arms reach, which is not particularly smart. Summing is nearly instantaneous (i.e. sub one heartbeat, so ~0.7 seconds at most), so they would have to wait till literally last second to get caught like that.

Well, we have WoBs that Stormlight healing can heal almost anything (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/116/#e4788), that F-Gold (and only difference between F-gold and compounded gold is the amount stored/tapped) and Stormlight are pretty much the same in what they can achieve (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/76/#e6336), for extreme healing the spiritweb takes over (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/100/#e3535), and for Radiants their spiritweb is strongly Invested thanks to the Nahel Bond (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/116/#e4788) and based on this WoB the Stormlight healing is more "spirit"-based then F-Gold anyway (https://wob.coppermind.net/events/34/#e5655). Not to mention Shallan survives and heals crossbow bolt through head, and it heals immediately after she removes it, so if it passed through, the wound would heal in its wake. Same principle with bullet. So yeah Stormlight alone is on part with Gold Compounding, and the only major limit is how much Stormlight does the Windrunner have available. Also, how is the Mistborn supposed to get close enough to duralumin pewter headbutt/punch Radiant, while Radiant has shapeshifting 10 foot long spear/7 foot long broadsword/whatever melee weapon that they know how to use? Pewter does make them a bit faster, but Stormlight also helps with that, and avoiding large blade is difficult because the ends move very fast. If they have Atium sure, but without it?

I think that the amount of Stormlight for Windrunner is not an issue, on 3rd Oath Kaladin flew non-stop for over 12 hours and traversed over thousand Rosharan miles while only using spheres he could carry. So just spheres on a person are enough for multiple hours or relatively intense usage. Even if the consumption goes up 12 fold, it is still hour of fighting, where Windrunner can defend against the offensive options of Mistborn (Reverse Lashings), can maneuver better, move faster (and accelerate arbitrarily fast thanks to multiple lashings), can heal and has Shardblade. The only way Mistborn can win is Atium.

I have few caveats Roshar while in some ways closer to renaissance, also leapfrogs ahead in some ways, e.g. Soulcasters allow for very different mode of production which really does not have a parallel, enabling one person to do work of hundreds of others (who would mine, transport, refine, manufacture). Other than that, conventional (i.e. non-invested) military is Scadrial's strength. Anti-Investiture annihilation is more powerful than even just antimatter-matter annihilation (if the investiture/anti- is of the same Shard, https://wob.coppermind.net/events/508/#e15889 ). And the very first anti-light explosion (in the lab which killed two people and ripped them into pieces, RoW 38) was not that far from the explosion Wax caused, despite it being only anti-light filled broam (i.e. 0.014 ounces) compared to Wax using 0.3 ounces of Harmonium. So, the explosions of anti-light are ~10x times more powerful per unit weight. So you could make similarly sized nuke to whatever Set was trying to do with 10x less mass. Chasmfiend gemhearts should be sufficient for nuke sized explosion. Roshar has had 10 years to refine their aircraft by the time of TLM, and they did go from levitating platforms to aircraft which can travel the span of continent in under a year, and to gloves enabling personal flight (albeit very limited). I would say that Malwish aircraft would still be bit more advanced, but not by such a great margin, and additionally Malwish craft is reliant on the entire craft being lighter than air, which is a big weakness. Roshar has more invested individuals, Singers with Forms of power are comparable to Mistings and Ferrings, and there is a lot of those. Though if we don't consider united Roshar they are not active participants. For Radiants, their numbers are growing rapidly, they went from ~10 individuals to nearly a hundred in a year. And then there are few hundred of squires on top of that. And this is while spren are refusing to bond due to events of Recreance, resulting in a bottleneck. Following RoW this bottleneck was at least partially removed. If this progress holds (but saturates), then in 10 years time there are low thousands of Radiants, and high thousands of squires on top of that. There are also more spren alive then ever before, so the potential ceiling on Radiant numbers is higher than it was previously (when individual Orders could already achieve low thousands). So by TLM Roshar can have ~10 000 Surgebinders (squires and Radiants together) which is the same order of magnitude as Scadrial has Mistings and Ferrings (Elendel Basin has ~ 20 000 ). Also I would say the leeching and A-Aluminum grenades are the only direct counter to Rosharan Invested Arts, the rest not really. And Roshar has technologies which would work in similar fashion (i.e. suppressor fabrials) so in this sense Rosharan fabrials are anathema to Scadrians. (though they would require tuning first to ensure they block the proper Pure Tone, or however they exactly function). Roshar is partially getting around this by heavily leveraging Soulcasting as you mention, i.e. to equip rank and file they would not have blacksmith forge swords and armor, but would shape it out wood or wax, and then Soulcast it to metal. While it does not match speed of factories Scadrial has, it does reduce the time heavily compared to purely 'earth-based' manufacturing techniques.

Well I would say that if the source of estimation itself points out it is untrustworthy and supplies us with information we know is wrong, we should take him with a big pile of salt. Ok, fair enough. I was assuming airborn blast, my mistake. (that is what I get for doing things in haste) I hope someone asks Brandon about this, I would like some more precise numbers on hand. And how much did they confiscate from Set? I don't remember any part were they took a large amount of Harmonium (but that could be my memory). For all we know Set used up nearly everything in the large bomb (it was three large barrels of the stuff), as they assumed they would be in control of the Basin afterwards. But routine inspections don't need to be done effectively daily, they would have to massively increase number of people performing the inspections. And you could use it to set up traps, i.e. damage a section, wait for train with repairs to arrive and then damage section behind the train and attack the train. I don't think it would force them to capitulate, I never said that. It would however be additional drain on their resources, and they are reliant on full supply chain (mining, transport, manufacture, transport) to fix it, which can be difficult to scale up. A single Windrunner could damage railway in hundreds of places in a single day (as per how far they can fly), engaging thousands of Scadrians to fix it. And then next day, they could do it again. I don't think damaging non-essential infrastructure is going against Oaths of Windrunners, they don't control the choices of the civilians. You could make the same argument with any larger scale attack Windrunner could do, that civilians could get in the way. Really can we? To prepare 0.3 ounces of Harmonium for explosion Wax required his laboratory set up, which was powered by a separate generator (if I remember right). And the explosion was not enough to destroy a room. To scale it up to appreciable level, I don't think you could fit it in a rocket, they simply lack the technology for it. If the Set could not scale it down, why could the rest? At most he would have to do it few times a week, not day. In Oathbringer perpendicularity opened just for a few moments charged all the spheres across a kilometer or so of terrain. And even if so, they could move him (and the spheres) around to mitigate danger. Rosharans are more mobile then Scadrian forces. It is war, it is dangerous. The only way they could get cut off would be via Leeching grenades (or very brave Leecher, or one with F-Steel spike). Which can be mitigated if they travel in small groups and don't stay too close to each other.

Well, they are the only source of Harmonium on the planet, so how will Northerners make H-T bombs without them? They don't have that much Harmonium available, Malwish are stingy with it. Scadrial already has hundreds of miles of train tracks to check, how do you propose they do that regularly, much less replace it on the spot? Are they always checking with spare train tracks? Kinda yeah, Set had years to perfect it and they could not do it Since the H-T bomb requires a lot of electricity to run it is possible they will not be able to put it on rockets until they invent small nuclear reactors or some such. Why? All it means is that Dalinar can use all his powers off-world easily, not just create perpendicularities. He took what they had on hand that was full. It was spheres he could carry, i.e. Windrunner with just spheres they can carry can fly over a thousand miles in half a day. I.e. if need be you can have Windrunner strike team that can hit anywhere in the Basin, which was the original reason for my statement on Kaladin. EDIT: Apologies for the double post, I only wanted to edit the previous one, but was apparently tired enough that I made a new post. Sorry about that wont' happen again.