Trusk'our

Yeah, using Lerasium in Hemalurgy is probably the worst way to use it. Honestly, you could argue that using Atium would be terrible too, as while it has more efficiency it just replicates what other metals can do (there may be other uses, but they probably won't compensate for the waste). Also, @Cerulean and @hwiles, I don't want to be a bother, but these responses are digging up a topic that's about two and a half years old. It may be best to form a new thread to further this discussion if you would like.

(You're right, this doesn't give you a feedback loop in the same sense as nicrosil does; you aren't increasing the total Investiture for the process, just compressing it more over a shorter time frame. Basically, my thinking is that if you don't store while Burning, it speeds up the process of burning, which makes you faster, which makes you burn through your Steelminds faster. Essentially just a way to shift your limitations on Compounding steel (in the short term, again, because no extra Investiture is introduced to the system of Compounding) from your Steelmind's storage space to your metal stores and Allomancy's strength.) Nevermind, disregard the above section entirely. As for how fast you can go, I think that you can get closer to Mach 5 before you completely burn up. That said, you probably couldn't maintain a speed close to that for very long as you'd still accumulate heat over time, but 10x speed seems on the lower end for a Steelrunner in my opinion. Edit: oh goodness, thinking about it more is actually starting to break my brain. Okay, if you Compound 100% of an attribute (yes, you can't store that much technically, but lets say you fill it up to that amount by storing at a lower percentage for longer) to get 10x the amount of Feruchemical speed, you can effectively turn 1 Steelmind nugget into 10 charged nuggets. If you don't store one of those while actively burning, you are now at 2x speed, which allows you to Compounding and get 9 Steelmind nuggets, but in half the time. Now you burn one of those while not storing a tenth of it to make 9 more Steelmind nuggets in the remaining time to give you 18 Steelmind nuggets instead of the 10 you'd get without this hack. Feruchemical compression loss prevents this from being an infinite loop, but to me it actually seems that you can effectively use more metal to make more Metalminds more quickly.

Yes, Compounding Steel is broken. Several times over, I would say. But I just had a quick thought as to how a steel Compounder is even more busted than before (because of course they are). Normally, a Compounder Compounds their Metalmind, making more attribute than they need in the moment, so they store it to tap later. They could instead choose to just use the attribute when burned by simply not storing it in the first place, which means that a steel Compounder can boost their tapping by activity adding more physical speed while they fight. But, since they can also Compound their metals faster when tapping/Compounding speed, wouldn't the process of Compounding while using those stores create a feedback loop, making them faster and faster? The only limitation is the size of their Steelminds, but as seen with Pewter dragging, this is a relatively easy thing to fix (just eat more steel nuggets). A double steel Twinborn just carrying around a fat sack of Steelmind nuggets to beat over the heads of their enemies while Compounding insane amounts of speed would be hilariously powerful. (Yes, there's a practical limit to how fast they can be without other powers, but they can maintain ridiculous speeds for a long time by essentially pewter dragging) Edit: wait a minute- since burning a Steelmind makes you faster and more powerful at burning it, wouldn't Unkeyed Steelminds do this too? This might actually make it less powerful though, as you'd get less and less relative time to use your heightened speed, as you'd blow through your Steelmind(s) in a similar way that duralumin Flaring does. So, maybe only a true Compounder who can also store the excess attribute to slow down their Allomancy would be all that effective. Hmm.

It's all good friend Agreed. Better, more efficient processes are always more advantageous.

Well, I'm actually not sure that you can just slap together an Identity blanked Nicrosilmind in order to create an Unsealed Metalmind. I think that the Excisors are probably still needed for creating the bonding mechanism. If this holds true, a Full Feruchemist couldn't just abuse this mechanic, but they could perhaps create medallions that had more powers. Which, of course, would be very lucrative for them, and thus very powerful.

Yeah, getting money, fame, and maybe even religious influence from their Metalborn status would make them a powerful leader over a significant number of people. Plus, you know, having greater ability to manufacture Unsealed Metalminds. That would be a powerful advantage too.

Honestly, at this point I probably have. It's hard to keep track of the 200+ Hemalurgy theories I've posted My thinking for this WoB is that, yes, you can technically target all areas that Feruchemy does with Hemalurgy, but that doesn't mean it will yield a 1 to 1 result; memories are specifically off the menu for Hemalurgy as they're a part of the Cognitive Aspect, unlike memorization and intelligence, which are a spiritual attribute that affects the Cognitive Aspect. Warbreaker spoilers: Furthermore, breath, energy, fluids, and warmth are more physical Realm things, and while Feruchemy can store them, they're less of a Spiritual component and more of a physical component that can be targeted. This is especially visible when you see that tapping and storing them leads to permanent changes (copper too, but that's Cognitive instead), at least until tapped; you don't spend an hour storing calories to suddenly feel less hungry after you stop storing, but like memories you must tap the Bendalloymind to retrieve the effects. Were you to never tap them, you'd never get those calories back and you'd need to eat more from another source to replenish the attribute. As @alder24 proposed, I think these attributes will end up being targetable in the same way memory is; you may not be able to take actual breath, memories, or calories, but you can affect how your body uses them and to what level of efficiency. Which, I would add, may include a magical boost as a side effect (think Blessing of Potency with the Kandra; no extra muscle there, but more strength regardless). Actually, this is kinda already done by Koloss and Kandra with the Blessing of Potency; Sazed has commented in WoA and HoA that these two types of entities are "inhumanly quick", and as he has a Thug and two Mistborn as friends, and has personally made use of Steelrunning, I'm inclined to take his word for it. Now, Hemalurgic iron gets speed as more of a side effect of other physical attributes, but targeting it specifically would probably yield greater results.

Nice! Glad to hear from another Sharder. This is a pretty interesting idea, and I think that a "generic attribute" could potentially be created to be tapped (or maybe bonded by a specialized Unsealed Metalmind), perhaps similar to a blanked Connection, but I see no solid evidence that this can be done through traditional means of Compounding. Since in Feruchemy you get exactly what you store (perhaps the one exception being gold Feruchemy, as it's more focused and more powerful than natural healing), and since Compounding essentially just overwrites your Allomantic effect with your Feruchemical one, I don't think that this would be the way to create general attributes.

Actually, I'm planning on making a longer post to explore a very similar topic. Perhaps some of what you're curious about will be there.

Since my post about possibly creating Unsealed Metalminds that can plug non-powered attributes into the Spiritweb, I've been wondering along the lines of where Feruchemy and Hemalurgy meet. Hemalurgy is essentially just pulling off Spiritweb attributes and adding them to another Spiritweb, right? And Feruchemy's all about siphoning off attributes to cannibalize later. Does this mean that a Brute could fill a spike-shaped Pewtermind full of strength and, with the right Intent and Bindpoint placement, essentially use it like a Hemalurgic spike to staple that strength back onto themselves or someone else? It's definitely weird, but unless Hemalurgically spiking someone steals extra Spiritweb code to tell the spike what to do (which it may), it may work. However, assuming that there is some extra code (which if we're being honest, there probably is) then you might be able to someday make artificial Spiritweb fragments through Feruchemy technology. We already knew that creating artificial Spiritwebs was possible, but before I thought that maybe you'd still have to spike something to pull it into the spike, or maybe use something like the Dor. However, I'm now thinking that Feruchemical processing may be able, with some work, directly Invest a Hemalurgic spike.

If it's living, the Spren could alter it's shape mid flight to curve at will. Which would probably make it a pretty good weapon, actually.

I think that you could still see negative effects for storing Fortune; if how a person normally acts is them with 100% of their Fortune guiding and benefitting them, then reducing that Fortune will negatively impact how they function.

I don't think that you can go into negative numbers for storing Fortune. You have a given amount of Investiture that the attribute is comprised of, and you can store pieces of it away temporarily to gain some effect for later, but you can't draw from what's not there.

They'll have stuff for Scadrial?! That's gonna be so awesome!

The more I think about it, the more I think that the Bands must have used the same bonding mechanism as the medallions; if a Nicrosilmind has a blanked Identity, you still shouldn't be able to tap it without having a bridge between your soul and the Investiture, which traditionally requires the practitioner to be a Soulbearer. Or, in the case of Unsealed Metalminds, have the Metalmind reach out to the practitioner through bonding. Essentially, my current thought is that an Identity-free Nicrosilmind is probably just an Unkeyed Metalmind, not an Unsealed Metalmind. The Bands may have granted the ability to tap their own base Investiture though, the part you bond, which would explain why Wax was able to reduce its Nicrosilminds and it could help explain how the Bands were eventually tapped clean in TLM (though those could be fakes or something else may have depleted them).

Anytime

Did you mean to tag @Ale the Metallic Conjurer instead?

I don't think I've seen you around before. Welcome to the Shard @One who Breaths and Reads! The weird thing about the medallions made by the Southern Scadrians is that they aren't like regular Metalminds; do don't seem to use up the nicrosil portion of the Metalmind, which functions under the same principles that bonding an Honorblade does. (I also have a thread here that delves more deeply into Unsealed Metalmind mechanics and possibilities for their creation.) The Bands of Mourning were a bit strange though, in that their Nicrosilmind stores did deplete when Wax used them. I suspect that this either is because they were ancient compared to modern Unsealed Metalminds, a prototype of sorts, or there were depletable Nicrosilminds combined with more modern-esk bonding components to temporarily augment the weilder's power. An Honorblade does have some extra potential over Radiant bonds, but that is mostly due to the fact that they don't require oaths to bestow Surgebinding, and in most standard situations they're inferior. Aside from something like allowing Szeth or Moash to murder without fear of losing their power, I currently see little evidence for more ability on their part. Ishar's attempted hijacking of Dalinar's bond to the Stormfather is likely because Honor is no longer around to keep things in check, and Dalinar has been mentioned multiple times in RoW by the Stormfather to also be unchained due to Honor's death.

Hmm, that's a a pretty good point. What about a Connector Ferring? If they tapped Connection to their spikes, do you think you could brute-force more spikes to give your their powers?

That's definitely a possibility, and this whole idea could just flop. I'd personally err on the side of the spike's Identity being viable to blank though, as for most purposes they're functionally part of the Trueself's Spiritweb.

Always has been

A person can only bond one Unsealed Metalmind as of right now. It's a pretty fair limitation. However, we know that the mechanics of bonding a medallion and of bonding an Honorblade are similar, and by extention somewhat similar to bonding a Spren; It also seems to me that an Honorblade bond doesn't run as deeply as a Radiant bond, hence the reason they're easier to transfer, but grant less power and can't heal as well; (I also think that the reason picking up an Honorblade with the same power set as your Radiant Order empowers you a little is because you're essentially adding to that Connection and/or Investiture as an Allomancer with a Hemalurgic spike containing the same power would) In any case, since a Connector Ferring can more easily become a Squire to multiple Radiant Orders by tapping Connection, I think it may be possible for a Connector Ferring to store and strengthen their Connection to Unsealed Metalminds to bond multiple at once, or possibly make the bond deeper, less like an Honorblade and more like a Spren bond. It also may be possible that a Trueself Ferring could bond multiple medallions, as they can make themselves more susceptible to many things in the Cosmere;

Modern Hemalurgy has two big limitations placed on it; Identity contamination makes it impossible to Compound without some kind of refinement, and the Spiritweb rejects new powers from any spikes after an unknown threshold is met. However, this WoB states that blanking Identity makes one susceptible to a whole bunch of things in the Cosmere; So, I think that this has the potential to bypass modern Hemalurgy's limitations; you can blank the Identity of spikes in your Spiritweb to Compound and lower your spiritual defenses to let more powers in. Basically, personalized Hemalurgy as the Inquisitors had it. Of course, we don't strictly know if either of these things can be done by blanking Identity, but I'd say there's a fair shot of success. There's also the matter of potentially opening yourself up to the Flaw more, but that's what aluminum foil hats are for. I suppose I just find it cool that a Ferring I once thought of as being the last I'd want to be might have some of the most potential. Just goes to show that Kelsier was right. There's always another secret.

That could potentially happen, theoretically, but humans are humans; someone else will want power either for selfish reasons or because they believe that they will do better. Plus, I do want to point out that while they can Compound fit sustenance, they need metals to do that in the first place; bendalloy specifically wasn't discovered yet. Rashek could have manifested a stockpile with the well I suppose, but that entails that he was feeling like giving up his personal power over others, and while the First Kandra generation shows he was willing to share immortality with his friends, he doesn't seem happy to deal with competition. Fair enough. I would say those traits are more selfish than directly unintelligent, but the end results of his actions certainly led to more harm than there otherwise could have been had there been a more altruistic person (assuming that they didn't accidentally release Ruin as Vin did).

Nice to meet you! Firstly, I think that it is likely that Azure's sword is consuming their Investiture, though you're right, it's not BioChromatic Breath; while only Nalthians are born with Breaths, every person born on a Shardworld (any planet with a Shard of Adonalsium present) will have an extra bit of Investiture, known as Innate Investiture. This is what the sword is likely consuming, as well as the rest of their Spiritweb. Nightblood specifically needs to use up some Investiture to use all its powers, but this is not strictly necessary to consume their souls or destroy decently; This isn't to say Azure's blade needs to do this necessarily, but it leans into the idea that at least some of the Investiture it consumes is used to perform this feeding. As to whether the blades need to consume Investiture to stay alive, no, it's very, very unlikely that this is the case; Returned need to consume Investiture (which in most cases are Breaths) to stay alive, but this is a function of them being Cognitive Shadows, not because they're Invested with a Divine Breath. Minor Hero of Ages spoilers (not sure if you've read it yet, but better safe than sorry); It is also worth mentioning that you do not need to give up Breath to become Drab, or at least Drab-like; More HoA spoilers; TLM spoilers; Hope this helps!