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Quick Ben

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  1. Quick Ben
    The difference in our opinion here, boils down to this: you think Dalinar did all he could with Amaram by saying would be a trial etc, im saying he should of went the extra step, and took his shardblade to ensure that would happen. Also just a side note the law, is irrelevant to honour, There is many instances in real life where if you follow a code of honour you will find yourself on wrong side of the law, is that stupid ? Not even remotely. Honour exists independently of law, Honour is guided by the moral thing to do, whereas the law is guided by the ethical, which are not the same. He didn't reforge himself, he was reforged, there is a hig difference. The Dalinar we first meet is, an honourable fellow, the Dalinar we see in the flashbacks is a despot. What changed ? Culivation. Anything and everything that made Dalinar who he was, was taken away. Everything and anything that could lead Dalinar back to that was taken away. What was left, was what we see first. You ask what else it could be ? Being unmade, Amaram is a watered down version of Dalinar, and everyone hates him, if cultivation "pruned" him and he became what he dipicts to everyone he is, a paragon of honour, would you suddenly love him like you do Dalinar? Would you say how honourable Amaram is? Peoples opinion on Dalinar are blinded by fact who he was isn't who we first meet. He wouldn't of needed to chase him down, he had him in "his power" before they left on expedition to confront the parshindi. I agree there wasn't, but not choosing the honourable path had just as severe ramifications as the potential civil war you mentioned earlier if he had done the honourable thing (my version)
  2. Quick Ben
    I understand its 5 years prior, but my point is simply this, the honourable thing to do would be to make Amaram face repercussions for his actions, to achieve this honourable end, he should of made him break the bond to his shardblade, legality aside, it is the honourable path, and as i said, if choosing honour means breaking the law then so be it, you can't say well i didnt do the honourable thing cos id of crossed that line there so i didnt bother. No, everything that made him that man was removed, everything he did from that point until his memories came back, is not growth, its being unmade/remade/reforged or anything meaning the same thing, and set him on the path to where he ends up butdoes not count as growth. To say it is growth is just wrong. Reference my first point for these two. If ye disagree then its fine, i am not debating the point for ye to suddenly agree with me, but fact is, saying he couldnt because he didnt have the power, law didnt allow or any other such reason falls to see that doing the honourable thing, has nothing to do with power or the law. It is quiet simply doing what is right, which yes might have ramifications, but might also avert a whole princedom turning to Odium.(like what happened)
  3. Quick Ben
    Which would involve taking his Shardblade, just like i said
  4. Quick Ben
    Ok their at war right ? You have a subordinate who killed his own men ya ? You don't think taking action is within your his purview ? Seriously ? When ? What shows this growth ? Except he isn't and it is true. He wouldn't be a shardbearer if he made him break the bond to his blade when he confronted him about stealing "taln's" And agreed, it doesn't but what isn't possible for Dalinar is alot smaller then for most
  5. Quick Ben
    They were at war, which makes it a war time decision. Besides everything your saying isn't a reason not to do the honourable thing. The honourable thing to do, can be on the right or wrong side of law, it being on wrong side of the law doesn't mean it is no longer honourable
  6. Quick Ben
    At the beginning of this convo you were saying how honourable Dalinar is, i just pointed out ways in which he isn't, which you now agree with from the above. But when/if your acting honourable you don't get to pick and choose when you do, your either always honourable or your not. Dont expect Dalinar to do anything, just find it extremely misleading when people (you earlier) say how Dalinar has grown, when he hasn't. So just pointed that out. As highprince of war both were under his purview, Could he of made him break the bond to his blade ? Yes he could of, that is all im saying.
  7. Quick Ben
    Apologies, but same applies really, albeit Amaram would of been closer in rank to Dalinar, doesn't stop him from doing the honourable thing, and making Amaram accountable for what he did,
  8. Quick Ben
    I am not american so don't know the distance between the president and congress, but il assume its close from how you phrased the above. Dalinar and Roshone, weren't close in rank, id go so far as to say Roshone was most likely closer in rank to Kaladin (pre radiance) then Dalinar, so it wouldnt be like he was putting a highprince in prison, just a "merchant" type lighteyes, so unsure why you say Dalinar didn't have the power
  9. Quick Ben
    Actually, Dalinar could of done it if he wanted, to set an example etc, he chose not to. Does it matter ? No, the honourable thing to do is tell all the highprinces, tell their allies, what happens after happens, point is, you don't get to chose when your honourable and when your not. Could of made him break his bond to the blade ? He had no accountabilty for what he had done, Dalinar didnt pursue the honourable course. Least you admit "he was articially jumped to a good person" But thats the exact point, he didn't earn anything. And even when was turned into a good man he still is only honourable half the time as iv said. I get everyone on here loves Dalinar but i don't see why,real world example (kinda) pick any dictator/despot in history, give them amnesia, let them go to argentina for 15/20 years and raise orphans, then the world realise's who they are, do they get a free pass from all there actions ? Do people following a code of honour or code of law, keep following them ?
  10. Quick Ben
    A good idea would of been to put him in jail, he was in a perfect position to do that Actually the honourable thing to do would of been to show Elhokar how to lead Ya stand trial, and was promoted while he waited... Doesn't matter, honour would demand he make his son face the consequences of his actions. Thats fair enough, but i dont see how you can disagree. Growth implies, you see your flaws, accept them, seek redemption, work through them, and come out the other side from q journey of personal growth. Dalinar did none of the above, what cultivation did "unmade" who he was and where he was going and made him a completly different person. That is destination before journey.
  11. Quick Ben
    He only remembered at end of OB, so given the time skip, and fact we didn't see much of him in RoW, im not sure how you mean. Put Roshone where he couldnt cause trouble at heartstone, Disposed Elhokar Let a known murderer (Amaram) go free, Married his "sister" Didnt punish his son for murdering a highprince (mayhe even covered it up) None of those are honourable. Don't see it as an apology. He hasn't grown even remotely, he was "unmade" or pruned as like to say on this site, that isnt growth,
  12. Quick Ben
    Thats fine but saying he spent the rest of his life making up for something when he didn't is misleading in the extreme, Also he has done as many dishonourable things since start of SA as honourable at this point, so unsure where you get hes trying to an honourable person from, when hes honourable about half the time. Also wouldnt class OB as an apology, dunno where you get that from Even his 3rd bondsmith oath was more about him going forward then recognising and seeking redemption for his past.
  13. Quick Ben
    How has he spent the rest of his life trying to make up for it ? I must of missed that ? He only knows about it for a year and did absolutely nothing to make up for it.
  14. Quick Ben
    I see where your coming from with this, but i actually think how Kaladin acts stems more from the very narrow definition of Honour in SA, which creates narratively weak reasons for not doing what the actual Honourable thing is. Also in SA seems like the Honour and Justice can't overlap or exist in concert which is mystifying, as there are many variations of both, but only one tapered/restricted view of both depicted. Personally think, Kaldin was honour bound to remove Roshone, Moash was 100% correct to try remove Elhokar, on a Honour level and a Justice level, Kaladin should of been Honour bound to help his friend eliminate Elhokar, Quiet frankly Kaldin should of stopped following Dalinar with the revelations in OB, given it is 100% not honourable to follow a despot, (this applies to Szeth as well), while Dalinar was changed from that person that doesn't absolve him.
  15. Quick Ben
    I actually like this theory and upvote for original thinking, alot on here quick to knock a theory esp if its goes against a popular one
  16. Quick Ben
    Your right, loophole is wrong word, its an exploitable situation, to term it more accurately. I still see it as most likely outcome though
  17. Quick Ben
    I don't think Dalinar will end up being his own champion, given he has no shardblade or plate, he would be at a severe disadvantage against almost every person T-Odium could select as champion. Loophole could be Adolin becomes T-Odiums champion, Renarin becomes Dalinar's, in this scenario, even with Adolin being influenced by Odium he can't bring himself to harm/kill Renarin, and Renarin isn't capable of beating Adolin as well as not wanting to. So ends a draw. Or conversly the above scenario happens, Adolin is willing to Kill Renarin and Dalinar breaks the agreement when sees hes sons willing to kill one another, thus freeing T-Odium Only way T-Odium can really "win" is by getting Dalinar to void the agreement as this is only way he can leave roshar
  18. Quick Ben
    I think the process was started with the 4th ideal, Kaladin even says something to the effect of "hes better but not ready to re-enter combat yet, i think the 5th ideal will build on the 4th ideal, which is why i think the natural progression from there isn "i will protect myself, before/above others"
  19. Quick Ben
    Second point is a good one, you would imagine she wouldn't rethread that path, but given how all Kholins are radiants now, it seems it is set up for him to be a radiant just "in a diff way" like Renarin. Disagree with him not becoming radiant just because its what Dalinar wants, And when B.A.M is released there won't be anymore deadeyes (my understanding) so won't be Adolin who heals Maya really, whether Adolin bonds Maya after this or they just remain "friends" is up for debate though
  20. Quick Ben
    I don't see how that is even remotely selfish, 1. Doesn't just apply in a combat sense, can apply to the radiants mental state. As we see with Kaladin, hes ability to protect people is severly compromised by his mental state, when/if he learns to protect himself he will be more effective protecting others. And protecting himself begun with the 4th ideal, so seems a natural progression. Windrunners are driven to protect at there own expense, and especially Kaladin, makes perfect sense for the 5th ideal to be about protecting themselves, imo 2. As @Frustration said, in a combat sense, the longer the radiant stays alive the more people he/she can protect and save people.
  21. Quick Ben
    I see alot of people saying something along the lines of "i will do no harm" "i will not kill to protect etc" Those to me can't be true, because wouldn't those statements make a 5th ideal radiant try stop the lower ideal level radiants from doing harm or killing ? So it needs to be something which doesn't interfere with the lower ideal radiants. So seems likely will be along the lines of "i accept i must protect myself before/above others"
  22. Quick Ben
    Pretty sure thats not right. He argues the singers were the original inhabitants so their "laws" which should be followed. The humans are/were in charge by right of conquest not Odium.
  23. Quick Ben
    If the unmade used be spren, wouldnt some of them at least be considered "bondsmith" level spren ? Yet its said there was only ever 3 of those
  24. Quick Ben
    Just had a look and your right, had forgotten that, thanks
  25. Quick Ben
    Considering the radiants come from a multitude of religions then they can definetly not be considered a religion unto themselves. Also wouldnt class the skybreakers as a cult, just a rogue arm of radiants, even dustbringers don't really align with the rest of the radiants or in actual fact the willshapers.
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