BenduLuke

Tell me more. How does Identity work? Also I thought where one pierced depended on the ability being harvested as well as the metal used to harvest it if it required a specific location at all. I could be wrong but I don't think Vin's sister was pierce through the heart by the ear spike she wore.

Growing up as a seemingly powerless Skaa in the roughs I learned to navigate the underworld and to defend myself. I quickly located a pair of sia and infused my dunn spheres from some of the stormlight in my metal mind to make the purchase. Following Fractal's direction I soul cast the sai into reinforced Aluminum. I replaced my tattered clothing then sought out somewhere to get a bite to eat and drink. By habit in the pub I listened to the discussions around me, and I learned that the place to be would be somewhere called Urithiru. To get there either I had to convince a caravan to take me across the plains, which would take days, or travel via radiant through one of the "gates?". Once we left the pub we threaded our way through the alleys toward the gate and through the market square to see how it worked. Harvest asked me as we traveled, I remember being broken for a long time, how did you fix me, and why do you seem familiar?" I responded, "I absorbed you and your friends identities and filtered yours back to you without that soul wrenching pain, and then I wove aspects of your friends Identity into mine." "So some of him became part of you and that is why I feel like I know you?" She asked. "Yes." "And you kept my pain?" she continued. "No. I stored your the pain from your Identity in a metalmind, and later I may find an appropriate time or place to release it either all at once or over time." About then we entered the Market Square and wouldn't you know it there was the Dandy with a pair of guards. He pointed at me saying "that's the one who stole my sword!" They immediately started after me at a run from across the square. So I turned toward another alley away from them. I was tired, and they had been rested. They were very athletic and knew the camp better than I did so it wasn't long before they started gaining on me. Also in their favor was that they had buddies showing up along my route trying to intercept me. I guess, I thought, unintentionally freeing a magic sword could get someone into a bit of trouble with the authorities. Harvest whispered to me "use the light and become slippery". "Slippery" I said. So tapping the light I started skating down the path, and up on walls, and around corners streaming light behind me. Soon I was grinning and laughing like a mad man. Even when a guard reached out to grab me I slipped through his fingers. Next thing I knew we were at the gate and had left our pursuers behind. I slid onto the platform just as one of the radiants engaged it. Snap, pop and we were somewhere else. Several people and the Radiant looked at me and she said "where did you come from?" "I just came from the market square. Is this Urithiru?" I asked. She nodded her head then said, "I thought I knew all the edge dancers, are you new?" "You could say that I just met Harvest a couple hours ago though I have known Fractal for a couple of days." I answered. Puzzled she asked, "Harvest? Fractal?" "Yeah" I responded. "Fractal was Tovar's Spren before he died a couple of days ago, and Harvest was a sword with a gem in her hilt until a couple of hours ago." Grinning she said "I can see that your story might be as colorful as one of Lyft's. Let's find someplace to get you situated then we can talk."

A highly skilled martial pewter compounder with aluminum twined blade vs dust bringer 4th ideal. Comparable strength, speed and durability. Long battle . Pewter gets burned but if pierced by the blade the dustbringer gets confused because they lose their identity and with it perhaps their bond with their Spren then they are led off captive with no will to resist.

Aluminum is immune to the magical cutting aspect of a shardblade and its thickness or lacing would provide for physical resistance to cutting. Also when Mistborn use it they usually use it in combination with other metals so the aluminum itself doesn't need to pierce the shard plate it just has to be on something that does. welded onto a bullet, sharpened disc, dart or some other piercing projectile which is pushed, pulled, shot, stabbed or any combination of them. Aluminum room surge within works. Aluminum cord entangling net (think gladiator net) surgebinding becomes complicated at best.

your right a pewter arm wearing aluminum is immune to the magic of a shardblade cutting him and he still has his strength which he can use, but a windrunner in aluminum can't use gravity or adhesion anywhere the aluminum is. Nor will any projected surge work in the direction of the aluminum, but I am not sure if a coin shot can still steel push in the direction aluminum armor covers. Aluminum blocks lashings just like it blocks forgery. You are also right that Aluminum alone wont remove stormlight without the radiant being pierced by it, but it can be used to handicap an opponent while stormlight is neutralize or removed some other way. There is also the possibility that being pierced by aluminum would neutralize stormlight just like it neutralizes metals when burned. Are you sure a rioter can still riot or would the aluminum limit the direction that they can riot depending on where the aluminum is?

That's just it every mistborn used every weapon they had at hand and full mistborn have allot of options and combinations in combat which are multiplied by any available weapons. If you opponent is stronger than you guerrilla combat and hit and run tactics are fair. The bronze awareness would give some advantage to any combat where the Mistborn could hide and strike from cover over and over again. Enhanced senses gives an advantage in low light situations. Ranged attacks of all kinds would initially give an advantage to Mistborn, but in the end I think windrunners could at least partially counter that with their own potential projectiles. If you mean by a strait fight that a mistborn would fight like a radiant then yes they would lose. I saw a martial arts movie recently where the new student challenged his black belt master to one on one combat and they set up to fight when the student pulled a pistol and shot the master in the head because he knew he would lose hand to hand. There is no such thing as a strait fight. In a fight to the death if you don't cheat in whatever way possible you are not trying hard enough.

Yeah Vin was drawing on the mist which I assume could replace stormlight to. Plus she was flareing with the mists potential duralimum effect (it seems to act as all metals at once). Whether the radiant could break the cord has as much to do with momentum and leverage as it does to strength and while confined they would be vulnerable to assaults of all kinds draining stormlight in themselves and armor. A wind runner or sky breaker caught high in mid air could take a nasty fall if caught in an aluminmum net since it does block gravity lashes.

I can concede that Radiants have raw power on their side, but winning a battle is not always about raw power. The net Idea is only one of the proposed ways I have stated (though probably the simplest) that a mistborn might beat a Radiant. You are right it would be expensive. Brandon has stated that aluminum will become more common going forward. Windrunners have mobility to match or exceed metal born and may be able to use projectiles (multiple reverse lash a small hard object at the mistborn and you have a guided missle). Flared emotions might interfere with any Radiant's ability to fight even in shard plate. Windrunner vs Mistborn would be a sight to see comparable to TLR vs Kelsior. TLR only loses if you get his metal minds like Vin did. Miles hundred lives was almost unkillable and he only had one compounded metal.

Whose talking about a base mistborn? A duralimum flared steel push might do the Job and I think flared Chromium an all at once alomantic steel push maybe even more likely. Vin when flared was able to rip the invested metal minds from the Lord Ruler something that is near impossible even on a normal Feruchemist. Aluminum is strong and if it were braided like a rope it is much stronger and immune to the magical cutting power of shard blades. Without momentum braided aluminum cord would be very difficult to break. Crushing a hollow metal container is not the same as breaking a woven metal cable/cord. Aluminum has been shown to block surges completely if it surrounds a fabrial and with partial enclosure it limits the surge to the open side.

The net doesn't need to huge just enough to bind up the Radiant making it hard to get leverage to use the blade or strength and you already said that Aluminum is light. it also doesn't need to be a fine mesh so stabbing or shooting in from outside is not entirely limited. Aluminum though light is strong. A net also doesn't stop you from bashing someone into submission. Then it is just a matter of time before the stormlight runs out. Both also have the potential to steal fuel from the other such as reverse lashing metal vials or flared enhanced metal push/pull gems (All gems have metal in them. topaz would be near impossible since its base metal is aluminum with some impurities). No one said the combatants need to fight fair. Oh and trying to decide a fight with the limits of each investiture is most of the fun for me. What could either do to beat the other in different circumstances. In reality unlimited stormlight means a perpendicularity or High Storm, and unlimited Allomancy means the mist though I suppose any would do for either. A perpendicularity might fuel allomancy and mist might fuel surges. Sorry about the multiple posts I was trying to catch up with posts I missed yesterday and I have only just figured out how to fundamentally quote.

Yes Aluminum woven or braided with some other metal like steel, might have the tensile strength to resist the edge of a shardblade and strength of plate. You would need to have some other metal in order to push/pull it. Why does copper block the discovery of pulses? Since it blocks the discovery of pulses might it not also interfere with surges if flared or otherwise enhanced? Of course the Ideal would need to be compared with the enhancement just like with surge blocking. Location has everything to do with the contest since it limits how to get fuel for investiture and metal is everywhere but stormlight isn't. All I have been trying to say is that the outcome is not as cut and dried as many posts seem to assume for either Mistborn or Radiant. One of the greatest things about Brandon's magic is that it has limits so finding the path to victory is what is always interesting to me.

Radiant gets caught in metal weighted aluminum net by Mistborn and gets pounded physically, mentally, and emotionalally until they run out of stormlight and die or surrender. All surges are contained by Aluminum. Shardblade can't cut it. Several metals remove investiture so healing and other abilities are gone quick. Doesn't matter the order only the successful attack. And the attack can be accomplished from a distance with the full Mistborn aware of where their opponent is at all times without seeing them.

You could be right (none of my arguments use atium) but there are some caveats such as if the battle takes place on Roshar and the Mistborn not misting has just arrived a Radiant definitely has the advantage. On Scadrial the scale tips far to the other side even with some mistings, ferings, and twinborn. With investiture affecting metals like Aluminum, Nicrosil, and Raysium in a mistborn's arsenal the initial ranged advantage would be substantial. (Aluminum would need to bonded/welded to some other metal). Even without God metals a full Mistborn has a decent chance on either planet. For example there is a chance that a copper cloud could disrupt radiant surges just like it disrupts discovery. It may even be possible that it could have the dampening affect of the sibling on surges.

I agree if the battle takes place on Roshar and the Mistborn doesn't also bond a Spren, but on Scadrial the Radiant would be at a disadvantage except perhaps in the mists if they realized it could provide investiture.

So far the only abilites and metals I have discussed occur on either Scadrial or Roshar and in a contest between Radiants and Mistborn the use of all available resources should be assumed. Initially Mistborn should be able to use their abilities and Tactics on Roshar bit the inverse is not necessarily true until they can find a substitute for stormlight. It wasn't void light that suppressed Radiant abilities but the use of Void light corrupting the sibling who can suppress invested abilities or void spren in a Fabrial to mimic the siblings ability. In addition Mistborn may operate on a frequency that would require experimentation to suppress and we know that allomancy is also not on just one frequency as Bronze can tell the difference between allomantic pulses so there may not be a one fabrial blocks all. Aluminum darts or discs may well do better than bullets depending on the momentum behind them and the point or edge on them. Bullets tend to be blunt so with roughly equivalent momentum the smaller edge/point win as far as penetration. Shard pierced by Aluminum might simply dissolve because the investiture/Stormlight has been nullified and in the case of a windrunner their gravity surges might also be disrupted if pierced by aluminum since it is unaffected by gravity surges just like metal pushes.

Raysium acts allot like feruchemical/hemalurgic Nicrosil so Mistborn may already have it or its equivalent. As for honorblades in a fight with Radiants anyone might have honorblades even the mistborn. Then again if it is not taking place on Roshar no stormlight. No one not even Ishar can hold a perpendicularity open indefinitely. Honestly I still think that in a fight between Mistborn and Radian the winner would be situational and in most situations the Mistborn has the advantage only on Roshar does the Radiant potentially have the upper hand. Let me restate. Just because one side has access to specific Items doesn't mean the other side couldn't use those Items as well. In a fight anywhere the Mistborn have the advantage of more ways to use metal than Radiants, but the bond that Radiants have with Spren is not even unlikely for Mistborn and is certainly far more likely than Snaping for the Radiant.

Not sure what you mean? I am still not sure a winner can be predicatively projected. I am also not sure rabbits exist on either world

Of course push/pulled Raysium spikes with attached gems would do the trick to capture the Spren or drain light. Either Kelsior or Vin could have hundreds in play at any given time. Not sure even shard plate could stand up to that especially if they impacted in hard to reach spots. Oh thanks for correcting me now I have one more alomanticly dangerous projectile for the Mistborn arsenal.

That is fine it still doesn't stop its disruptive effect on almost all investiture in the cosmere. it also means that aluminum and raysium forged with a metal disc or dart containing some other metal would make devastating projectiles vs investiture, and raysium may not even need the extra metal to be pushed/pulled.

Though I could be wrong I it remember reading that aluminum, Ralkalest, and Raysium are names given to the same metal on different planets in the Cosmere. Raysium is the name from last war on Roshar for aluminum, and yes it is rare though becoming more common as the world become more industrialized. Aluminum, Ralkalest, Raysium when used to pierce act to drain investiture. On Skadrial it drains identity specifically, but on other world it drains investiture like stormlight more generally and resists invested power including shard blades. Navani was surprised because she never considered that use for aluminum. To make a fabrial that blocks alamancy you would need to find the amplitude and frequency of that alomancy and we know from Bronze that the different alomantic metals produce different frequencies so there is not one fabrial solution to blocking alomancy and different fabrials might interfere with each other. Mistborn are all about tool use it is an innate ability of theirs even a coin is a tool and pick a battle field off Roshar then Radiants are at a disadvantage since transporting stormlight is near impossible off world at this point as well as figuring out how to fuel surges without it could prove challenging, but finding metals to fuel alomancy is easy. Also shard plate and blades are also tools not abilities. Shard plate is not invulnerable and suffers the same weaknesses as other invested item such as aluminum which nullifies investiture. Other metals have also been mentioned which affect investiture directly as well. In all out power I would be willing to consede that to Some Radiants on Roshar. Kaladin would be tough for anyone to beat in almost any situation. A mistborn like Vin or Kelsior in terms of finesse, skill, and a broad range of versatile skills would be a tough opponent for any Radiant on any world even Roshar. For all we know a copper cloud could damp stormlight in a fight especially with bronze to show them what frequency to tune it to. In other words I think that with the vast array of skills available to Mistborn it could provide several tactics to overcome the potentially shear power of Radiants. There are 16 metals with the various combinations of their use and almost all of those metals are available everywhere in the cosmere. Mistborn need to figure out how to counter 3 powerful abilities and their combinations at best in a one on one fight, but Radiants would be faced with 16 powers and all their potential combinations some of which might even effect the bond between Spren and Radiant or across all three layers of reality. Shear power with very limited skills and thier combinations vs finesse with a wide range of versatile skills and their thousands of permutations it is not at all certain of the outcome but I would edge toward the mistborn vs even 4th or 5th ideal. In a twinborn fight with a radiant it would depent on the combatants and where it took place anywhere off Roshar even twinborn would likely have the advantage.

that is what is said in RoW

The fabrials would only work if tuned to alomantic and or feruchemical skills after all the fabrial that nulled Kaladins powers was tuned to raidant abilities it took another tuning to nullify fused abilities.

Rysium is aluminum. A full mistborn can push and pull metals at near balistic speeds. Aluminum fused with metal and linked to gems has the potential to pierce armor and drain stormlight from both the armor and Radiant even a 4th Ideal. On Scadrial stormlight to fuel surges would be difficult to substitute for while bonding could more simply provide complimentary investiture for a mistborn and Roshar does have alamantic metals for them to use. As Kelsior said to Vin paraphrasing 'In a contest where you try force against force you are at a disadvantage so you need to be more clever and skillful', and the variety of abilities a Mistborn has leave ample room to overskill the force of Radiant surges. Again it would also depend on which type of Radiant goes up against a full mistborn not all radiants are equally warriors.

If either knew about the abilities the other had, the advantage goes to the that one. Without foreknowledge the versatility and ranged abilities of the full mistborn may give them the edge particularly if they use Wax's trick of attaching aluminum or some other hard alomantically inert material to an alomantically active metal. Attach a gem stone to the aluminum/metal dart and you have investiture removing darts or edged discs at rifle speeds. Both Vin and Kelsior could handle many at once. Of course Kaladin might soon be imitating the projectile approach once he sees coinshot's and lurcher's in action. So in my opinion Mistborn vs Radiant is not cut and dried and the advantage goes to the situation and location that the battle takes place. Besides I think the Radiants, Twinborn, and Fused will be fighting Trell in the not to distant future alongside one another. It seems as if in order for Radiants and Fused to fight on Scadrial then need to snap or use hemalurgy, but the Mistborn need only metal of which some are in abundance to fight on Roshar and they may be even more enhanced with a bond to a Spren. who needs a rifle when you have a coin shot?

It took almost a day to reach the war camps and I was tired, hungry, and thirsty. I didn't have the first idea what they used for money, but I figured that the gem stones might be worth something. As I entered the market I saw people exchanging small glowing gems for products. I turned to Fractal and asked "why do those gems glow?" It said "the stormlight inn yourz haz beeenn uzed up or the gemz you founnd onn Taldar would glow toooo. You were very confuzed wheenn you found uz and I couldn't wake Taldar theenn he died." So I asked it, "how did it get used up, Did it leak out?" "No Taldar uzed it up fightinng fuzed before it mortally injured him or he might have lived." It replied. Before I could ask another question some fancy dressed dandy collided with me. He glared yelling something and demanded some kind of satisfaction. For a few moments I stared blankly at him because I couldn't understand word one that he said. I could understand Fractal but that might have something to do with us being tied together in some way. Then seemingly out of thin air the man held a massive sword and he swung it at me. I reflexively burned aluminum and raised my hand to catch the blade. In the roughs I had learned that I could nullify the abilities of someone burning metals if I came in contact with them and that sword sure looked like some invested ability. Things didn't quite go the way I expected. I felt the blade bite into my hand then time seemed to freeze for me. There was a surge of power flowing from a gem in the swords hilt through the sword. The sword seemed to have some kind of Identity and it also seemed to remember another Identity from long ago. Part of that identity was searing pain at the loss of connection to the old bonded Identity. I instinctively channeled the bonded Identity filling one of my minds with it then weaving it into my identity while channeling the power from the gem into another mind until the gem shattered from the loss of light breaking the connection to the man holding the sword. Some of that captured light flowed into me to heal the minor cut I got from the blade then I was holding the screaming sword hilt. I took the pain from the swords Identity and filled a third mind sealing it off, While I, Fractal, and the man stood their stunned I sensed the sword tell me it was called harvest. Then the sword disappeared and standing next to me was plant lady made up of vines. Wide eyed the man and those with him ran like Ruin was on his tail.