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An intentional traitor or an insane man leading people into further insanities without knowing what he's doing?

Well if that's the case it's very disappointing. I guess I'll stick with my hardcovers, I may have to buy TWOK again if I read it much more though... Ah well. If I could get TOR ebooks in the UK I'd happily double dip for most of Brandon's books, but Gollancz's overpriced books with bad cover art are just not something I want to support.

I could buy from Amazon.co.uk easily but they have the Gollancz versions not the Tor versions.

I don't have books with me at the moment but in one of Shallan and Jasnah's discussions in book 1 they said that the parshendi had had sharblades prior to the treaty - Jasnah suggested it as a theory for why Gavilar wanted the treaty -> so he could get those shardblades. As for where they got them, Dalinar notes at some point that the number of blades left behind in his vision of the Recreance far exceeds the number known about today - the question when it comes to shardblades in modern day Roshar is not "why are there so many" but rather "where are they all hidden" - is there a big cache of them somewhere because seemingly 90+% of those abandoned by the Knight's Radiant are unaccounted for today -> wild theory I've literally thought of right now, are the Shin hiding 100s of Shardblades as well as the honourblades? (could be a different group not the shin, e.g. one of the heralds maybe?)

I'm just thinking of the blurb on Way of Kings - which I'm pretty sure was confirmed to be cannon: Had Gavilar realised that Odium's plan was for no desolations for some extended period of time followed by a crazy horrendous one that would destroy an un-prepared humanity AND therefore to prevent this he needed to trigger a desolation early? I think is what @The Technovore was suggesting above? I just wanted to put it more briefly.

I think we can all agree that their methods are morally questionable but, are they going to achieve something good through those methods? That's a different question...

Elsecaller would probably be the most practical in modern day life - transportation to get around super quick, assumedly faster than flying when properly mastered AND transformation to turn rubbish into useful things, modern society makes so much rubbish... On the other hand for the fun factor Skybreaker for flight + destruction.... (really looking forward to seeing the Division surge used in the series - here's hoping that Adolin becomes a Releaser/Dustbringer)

I'm wondering if anyone here could point me to somewhere that I can buy TOR ebooks from the UK? (Reason being, I'd like to re-read some of Brandon's works on the go, and my hardcovers are both heavy and starting to wear out and I don't really want to buy Gollancz (the UK publisher's) ebooks. For an example of why i don't want to buy Gollancz, their ebook of way of kings comes in two parts with a price tag of £10 each, add the two together and that's twice as expensive as the Tor version on amazon.com but unless I'm quite mistaken I can't buy kindle books from amazon.com and use them on a UK device (correct me if I'm wrong here) - I tried dragonmount.com but they apparently can't sell their TOR ebooks outside of the US.

My suggestion that the ghostbloods are good is just an idea I don't know - as the readers we seem to be encouraged to think that they're bad, yet they appear to be working cross purposes with the Sons of Honour who we are also encouraged to think of as bad. Maybe they have good motives but a belief in "the ends justify the means". OR maybe they're a self-centered group who's motive is just personal gain. OR maybe they're lead by someone with a good motive whilst the organisation is comprised of people just there for themselves - TBH we don't have much way of knowing, all we seem to know about them objectively is: i) they include 1 or more world hoppers ii) they have had a fight with Jasnah iii) they wanted to gain influence via Lin (for unspecified reasons) iv) they indulge in-fighting v) they're secretive and organised like criminals vi) they are opposed to the sons of honour Could they be a Roshar based group of self-centered criminals who have been taken over by a world hopper with noble aims?

Could it be that Gavilar's plans were potentially disasterous and the ghostbloods had good plans + were aware of Gavliar's plans so the ghostbloods tried to kill Gavilar - Jasnah retaliated killing some of them. So Jasnah and the ghostbloods ended up fighting even though they both have good aims?

Couple of thoughts on the cover, it could just be artistic license but: 1. If you look closely Jasnah is floating in mid air near the flying stairs; so i) we have flying stairs AND ii) a flying Jasnah -> thoughts? 2. Jasnah's shardblade appears to be forming - the middle of it is half mist also what is with the angle it's at - that would be a horrendous way to hold a sword (in fact if you look closely the sword isn't in her hand, this just seems really odd, does it mean something ? Both of the abvoe points are probably nothing, just oddities of the cover art, but they both struck as very odd details.

@Yata Quick follows up to your points: 1. If it's raw number this line doesn't seem to make sense: "then men will naturally discover the greater power of the oaths. Without Honour to regulate this, there is a small chance that what comes next will allow the Voidbinders to again make the jump between worlds" (edgedancer chapter 9 second page, page 495 in AU) - it sounds fairly clear that he's talking about some specific action the surgebinders would take. 2. So you're thinking that the spren these skybreaker initiates have bonded are ignorant? This seems odd compared with the knowledge that pattern and Syl have but heh it's a possibility. 3. Is there WOB on Nate having retrieved his honorblade?

Intro So in Edgedancer it was established that Nale had been killing surgebinders due to a belief that the use of their powers without the guidance of Honour could create a bridge enabling a new Desolation. In doing so though he has been taking a small force of trainee Skybreakers with him, I had previously assumed these were fake skybreakers with dead spren swords, not actual surgebinders. The problems 1. If other surgebinders away from Honour's guidance could create a bridge to a desolation why wouldn't his skybreakers create such a bridge? -> note if the answer to that question is that Nale would provide the necessary guidance then why can't he provide such guidance to non-skybreaker surgebinders? If that is not the answer this just doesn't seem to make sense to me at all, unless it was a symptom of his madness. 2. Nale's skybreakers have Spren, surely those Spren know that what they're doing is wrong? I'm unsure on this point as I suppose the spren could have been misinformed or something but I just dunno... 3. Is Nale using an honourblade or does he have a spren? I assume the former? - thoughts?

Has there been any update on this? Particularly is there a recording of the reading?

I guess we really don't have enough information yet; maybe with the next book we'll have more to work with. (I wonder how many WoT books were out before theoryland and other such sites got going)

I really hope something can finally go right for Kaladin... It feels like he's had so much go wrong; if he gets home and finds his parents dead.... I just don't know, I guess hopefully he's strong enough now to deal with it; to be honest I've really got no idea where this plot line will go.

The lack of a spren limiting you doesn't seem like extra power to me; as generally the spren will only stop you from doing stupid things anyway. So options: i. They have special powers that only a herald can use ii. They can do loads we haven't seen as Szeth didn't have a clue how to use it iii. They just do what we've seen but do it more powerfully than a radiant shard (but for Szeth it was less powerful) iv. Something else? Do we have anymore relevant info any uncited WoBs perhaps?

Granted but you leave college insufficiently prepared for life and your first job breaks you. I wish I didn't feel so useless.

Vegeta, what does the scouter say about the Honourblade? So, I've seen a WOB saying that the honour blade in Szeths hands was weakened because he thought it couldn't do certain things that it really could have done. But even with such a restriction why did Kaladin seem so much more powerful than Szeth? "These were weapons of power beyond even shard blades" So does anyone have any ideas, thoughts or infirmation on what an Honourblade can do that can make it surpass a living shard blade? The only inkling I have is to compare it to nightblood; just as nightblood feeds off of investiture when drawn the honour blades seem to feed on stormlight; could it unleash crazy nightblood level power if used right? Is that a link we're meant to make? Thoughts?

I really can't see Renarin turning evil it would be such a massive change; despite being constantly rejected/looked down on/pitied by lots of people/seemingly everyone he's pressed on and tried to do good. I very much think his futuresight is a radiant power but I suppose we may have to RAFO that point; maybe it's the extra ability of the truthwatchers maybe it in some way parallels Kaladin's Storm riding?

I've seen various threads trying to piece these points together but I don't think I've ever seen my view of Gavilar or the Diagram - I obviously may have missed it somewhere. Anyway despite trying I haven't really managed to draw any final conclusions, I haven't seen any recent topics on this stuff so thought I'd dredge it all back up 1. Gavilar So I don't think Gavilar was on side with the Sons of Honor i.e I don't think he wanted to return the voidbringers in order to return the KRs/Heralds. The key evidence for him being on this side appears to be Eshonai's comment that Gavilar had wanted to return the parshendi's God's which are understood to be the voidspren; I think this was some kind of misunderstanding - because I don't think it would be consistent with other points: a) Gavilar was seeing visions asumedly the ones now being seen by Dalinar Gavilar was pro-Way of Kings -> act with Honor etc The visions would not have said revive the voidbringers. A Way of Kings style mindset would tell you that the ends don't justify the means so even if returning the voidbringers would return the heralds it wouldn't be an acceptable thing to do in his view. So what was Gavilar wanting to do? I think he wanted to move towards refounding the KR and doing the things Dalinar is now doing much later obviously he died too soon though there are a couple of unexplained points: a) What was the black sphere? Why would Thaidakar have been too late per Gavilar's comment to Szeth he had accomplished something already that the ghostbloods wouldn't like. 2. The Diagram So, Taravangian (Mr T) in a fit of brilliance or was it madness wrote a religious book about saving the world or some such but it seems to tell him to do all sorts of crazy things, sowing disorder and chaos/fighting against would be heros etc. My theory is that it started as follows: i) Gavilar told Mr T that the everstorm was coming, armies of voidbringers etc - how much info he had/gave is obviously a mystery to us ii) Mr T with whatever info he had set to working out how the world could be saved, with a logical process of: STEP 1: To survive the storm the world must be united under a great leader STEP 2: Mr T is the smartest man alive STEP 3: Based on steps 1&2 Mr T must rule the whole world STEP 4: Anything that could prevent Mr T ruling the whole world needs to be stopped (e.g. if Dalinar makes a strong united Alethi force/KR how will Mr T take over?) STEP 5: Sowing chaos/discord around the world and removing exiting leaders will create a void for Mr T to fill STEP 6: Ruling the whole world, using shardblades, honorblades and fabrials Mr T will stop the everstorm... I feel like this breaks at point 6 as it doesn't feel like they'd have enough power vs what's coming without radiants. The key question I suppose (minor Wheel of time spoilers) is whether Mr T is SA's version of Pedron Niall or whether he's actually right about something is he going to end up helping or only hindering? - a point on which I'm unsure, I've also heard suggested that Odium could have influenced Mr T to make him get some key points horribly wrong, I'm not sure on this at the moment I think we have insufficient evidence but it's certainly possible. 3. Darkness/Nalan and the Skybreakers So, what is up with darkness other than being completely mad? I'm unsure at the moment, could it be that actually surgebinding is a bad idea? I note particularly in light of the decoded epigraph from the Diagram about KRs that there seem to be two arguments for this I refer the diagram quote to STEP 4 above and reduce the argument to Darkness' actions only, he's clearly made but what is his driver? I don't think he's right as I don't think Honour was mad/lying when he made the visions for instance and I trust Honour over Nale. So why is Nalan killing surgebinders, it could be as others have suggested that he has confused correlation with causality but that seems too silly to me, I actually theorise instead that he is being manipulated by Odium pretty extensively though I have no proof yet other than that he's killing the people who could be the champions of humanity against Odium. Also what of the "Skybreakers" which Helaren joined and which Szeth has apparently been inducted into I think these are a group who are following Darkness around using dead spren shardblades and no surgebinding to do evil which they think to be good due to aforementioned influence of odium on darkness. 4. Sons of Honour I've mentioned them with Gavilar briefly above, were they linked to the envisagers? Is there any truth to their ideas? If Ammaran is a good picture of what they stand for they seem like a group of misguided minor villains but could they be something more? Why did Taln save him, was it just reflex? 5. Ghostbloods How do they fit into all of this? They're opposed to the sons of honour, considering the sons of honour wanted to return the voidbringers does that make them heroes? But they potentially wanted to kill Gavilar and did try to kill Jasnah - what is their angle? Are they opportunists trying to profit from the circumstances rather than working for good or ill particularly? Are they agents of Odium or some 3rd party? Are they actually trying to help? I've seen no real hints at all at this stage. 6. How will the world be saved? The Honour/Dalinar model seems to be: make a fortress, gather as many people as possible, train solders and KRs and fight massive battles will that work? Maybe as a start but that won't beat a shard will it? And also it seems too simple as the ultimate plot, thoughts?

So wading in, there's loads going on in this topic, so loads to comment on, this will be a long post, TL DR version = I think this is all more complex and interesting than some of you guys may think. 1. What will and won't be useful So here I'm responding primarily to the user maxal above. I may be misreading what you worte but it seemed to me that you were implying that the battles now will be almost entirely an affair of surgebinders I don't agree - if that's what you meant. Sure surgebinders will be more powerful than "generic" shardwielders without surgebinding BUT how many surgebinders will there be? In the Prelude back at the start of WOK there are non-radiant soldiers on the battlefield. Again in WOK in one of Dalinar's flashback he fought alongside some radiants wielding a poker when they had Plate,Blades and stormlight. Considering these facts Adolin as a skilled fighter with Plate and Blade would be incredibly useful in battle and a great asset he's not suddenly useless he may be tier 2 not tier 1 in light of the surgebinders etc but he certainly won't be irrelevant. A key component of the enemies they'll be fighting will likely be stormform parshendi, Adonai did pretty well against this in the battle at the end of WOR. tl dr: facing the everstorm anyone who can use a spear, sword or even a stick to fight will be useful. 2. Why do people like Renarin I think Feather (who likes Renarin far more than the rest of us) probably put this better than anyone else could but for me Renarin is weak but cares, weak but tries and there's something great about the guy who keeps trying despite failing -> it will be very interesting to see what he can do with a bit more power... 3. What does the future hold for Adolin I think this is a very interesting question, as several have commented I don't think he was sufficiently broken for a nahel bond but the death of Sadeas may be a start or even much of the way there, I'm unsure. I personally think he's going to end up as a KR possibly by reviving his blade (apparently confirmed to be an Edgedancer sword) though I personally preferred the idea of him as a Releaser/Dustbringer; maybe he'll stop using his shardblade due to the attitude the new KRs will have about them and following that cessation attract a spren? The anger attributed to Releasers (per one of the epigraphs) suits the image of him at the end of WOR at least slightly; though perhaps an Edgedancer profile fits him better, giving a dualist control over friction and hence enhanced movement seems somehow fitting. Another interesting thought is how non-radiant Adolin will interact with Radiants Renarin and Shallan? - I personally think Shallan clearly needs someone to teach her how to fight, Zahel? Or Adolin maybe? BUT, Adolin is so used to be the one with power, authority and strength below only his father and the king, he's meant to be the one who can protect everyone now he's suddenly got several more people above him; how he responds/reacts will be very interesting - it could break him or maybe he'll adapt; the one thing I can't see is his attitude staying same. 4. What does the future hold for Renarin The next interesting question; Renarin now as an KR he hasn't suddenly become more confident nor is he skilled in combat, he's got a new role and new strength; how will he grow into this role? Will Zahel perhaps be a key part of this? Will Adolin help him? I note that Truthwatchers were noted in one of the epigraphs as somewhat reclusive but I assume he won't be able to be as reclusive as he has been. Maybe more Renarin training with Zahel scenes but not with a blade that screams? Hmm... lots of ideas nothing concrete. edit: corrected a mistake in the last bit there

I'm confused about Gavilar, what the parshendi said of him doesn't seem to make sense, as intentionally bringing back the unmade wouldn't be an honourable action, and from all reports he'd become an honourable person. Perhaps his plan was something else which the parshendi rightly or wrongly thought would result in the unmade returning. OR, maybe he had learnt somewhere that the longer that passed until the next desolation the more likely it would be for odium to win and so he decided they needed to hurry it up.

I wonder what the difference is between using internal stormlight and external stormlight, whether certain powers require the right one of the two, or whether some powers can work with either.

Jasnah seems to think that surge binding is returning because a desolation is coming, also she seemed to think they need to do what Dalinar is doing. Which gives a competing scholarly view. What about my point based on the WoK blurb?