KandraAllomancer

The way I see it, there are two possible scenarios: A. Odium is forcibly bound to Braize by H&C - which probably involved the Dawnshards, which may be of Honor (in line with @Karger's answer) or something completely else (relics from Yolen, maybe?) B. H&C somehow get the upper hand and Odium finds himself in a situation where he might be heavily wounded or even killed. He makes a deal with Honor to choose imprisonment because, just like in Ruin's case, time means very little to him The fact that Odium can even be freed, and all it requires is a decision of a Bondsmith bonded with Tanavast's Cognitive Shadow, makes me think option B is more probable I agree that Odium would never permanently Invest in a place, but temporarily? The Svrakiss on Sel sound very similar to the Fused, so I think the creation of them and the Unmade might have been part of Odium's time-tested strategy against H&C. When he was defeated, most of his forces were imprisoned with him, but that doesn't seem to be the case for the Unmade

We know that Siah Aimians are not kandra, but the fact that they seem so similar to them, and the "Curse of Kind" mentioned by Axies, makes me think that they are basically kandra-like creatures created from some non-human species using Old Magic. The exact species of origin would be very hard to prove at this point, but I have a personal (highly speculative) theory. What if Siah Aimians are what remains of the Sho Del? This would explain their Cosmere significance and the fate of the third Yolish race which, save for Uli Da, is mysteriously absent from published Cosmere history. Here are some arguments for this theory (minor spoilers on Sho Del nature from WoBs and published Dragonsteel Prime chapters):

Hmm, maybe. It still strikes me as something rather weird to say, especially given the circumstances. Anyway, bonding Glys didn't require Renarin to give his pain to Odium (as far as I can tell), so the Initiation process is different in this case and it's quite reasonable to assume that the Oaths might be affected somehow

That possibility cannot be fully excluded at this point, but I don't think that's very likely. Two main reasons: A. If there had been a completely new, unknown Shard on Roshar at some point, we should see some of their spren or Investiture (potentially linked to the Sibling, fabrials or Urithiru). We have seen no evidence of this so far B. Sanderson's Third Law ("Expand on what you have already, before you add something new."). Adding another Shard to an already complicated mix just seems... inelegant, I guess?

We know that the Voidish part of Glys works in a kind of reversed way (he offers his pain to Renarin, not the other way around), so it is entirely possible that there will be something weird about the Oaths here

Odium definitely is the third Shard on Roshar, but we have no 100% explicit confirmation that he has always been. Current WoBs have crazy amount of wiggle room, to be honest. As @asmodeus pointed out, the Sibling certainly seems to be of both Cultivation and Honor, but I'm not sure Scadrial magic provides a good analogy in this case. We have pure Cultivation magic (Old Magic) and two Honor+Cultivation magic systems (Surgebinding and fabrials) on Roshar. Something is off here. Then, there are some weird things about Ashyn: there used to be Surgebinding there, as well as the first known fabrials. This suggests some Shardic presence, which, most likely, was of both Cultivation and Honor. I used to believe that it might have been a Shardic child, but now I'm leaning more toward it being an Avatar

Lift, as an Edgedancer, is supposed to be Loving and Healing, which she is. She can bring Nale to (some) level of sanity, which is a huge achievement in itself. Healing is not necessarily about body (Progression is for that anyway), it can be about psychology too I think that clashes with the fact that Dustbringers seem rather offensive, both in combat and personality: Dustbringers are the destructive force of the Knight Radiants, something that even Kalak comments on in the TWoK prelude. Refusing to fight due to loyalty seems rather counterintuitive here

I think the best summary of Oathbringer is one line from some review I once read: it contains both the highest highs and the lowest lows in the whole series so far. Yes, it drags at times. And some parts (Kaladin and Shallan's POVs in Part 4) seem quite lackluster despite a rather... interesting setting (though there's probably a ton of cool foreshadowing that will be obvious in a few years ). That being said, Part 5 is, in my opinion, one of the best (if not the best) thing Brandon has ever written

I think you got the second and third Ideal quite right, but the Dustbringers' attribute is not Loyal, it's Brave and Obedient. They seem to about controlling their emotions in order to be responsible: I think it's pretty much impossible - look a the situation Kaladin faces when rescuing Elhokar

Great insights about Edgedancers and Progression, but I'm not sure if you got the right suspect. Moelach's ability sounds more like corrupted version of Progression + Illumination, which also fits nicely with futuresight granted by Glys. And I wonder if all 10 Voidsurges will be combinations of two KR Surges like this... I think the twisted Edgedancer is actually Taravangian - Cultivation created a superpowered Edgendancer (Lift), so why not an anti-Edgedancer? A boon and a curse to the Knight Radiants, both ultimately her tools? Also, Edgedancer spren are Cultivationspren, so the whole thing has Cultivation written all over it

Gorgeous, probably the best anniversary edition so far

A case against Lift: She puts Gawx, an easily manipulated puppet king, on the throne of Azir She steals food from Nale, a veteran with clear mental issues, and then she makes him cry She tries to gaslight Wyndle into thinking he's a Vodbringer Most of her known associates (Nale, Szeth, Nightblood, Dalinar) are known mass murderers She's potentially the most capable torturer in all of Roshar. She can eat you alive with a Shardfork, convert your flesh to Investiture, heal you with it and start again, creating a never-ending cycle of torment that makes Damnation look like a piece of (pan)cake. In fact, Lift might stand for Limitless Investiture Feast Torturer She's so terrifying that Odium leaves Dalinar's vision the moment he realizes she might be there There are rainbowspren on Roshar, but we never see them. Why? They're hiding, afraid of Lift who might want to eat them so she can belch rainbows The prosecution rests, your Honor

I agree that Unity seems to be, at least partially, of Honor. There is still the issue of the voice talking to Dalinar - an Avatar of Honor maybe?

@Eagle of the Forest Path Yelig-nar and Ba-Ado-Mishram have no direct mythology counterparts, they're based purely on Lovecraft: As, for Baal Hadad, he seems to share many features with Stormfather/Honor. And I'm wondering if Cultivation's name will have some links to mythology...

You're welcome I've enjoyed our discussion as well The Book 4 Release Date topic reminded me about Feverstone Keep (somehow I completely forgot about it) - this might shed some light on BAM's motives and has good chance of coming up in Book 4 (I think), so we may get some answers relatively soon Autonomy is very likely to be part of the 'we' here, but I'm wondering who the 'you' is. Honor? Some Shard on Ashyn? Adonalsium? Probably the biggest RAFO on my personal list of things I'd like to know about Stormlight

It gets even better:

I think that's exactly how Avatars work - Shard might have access to infinite power, but their minds are finite and there must be a lot of unused Investiture lying around: Avatars seem to be a way to bypass that limitation By the logic above, that something would be Autonomy's free Investiture That would be hard to prove, but I think the alternative (that it was meant to help Odium), is not very likely - simply because Rayse would probably consider it a hostile action. Based on his conversation with Turash on Thaylen Field, he seems to want to be in complete charge of the situation and be able to control his minions. On a more personal note, I don't think I would trust Bavadin in this situation and I don't think Rayse would be less paranoid than me Creating an Avatar subordinate to someone else seems to be very much against Autonomy's Intent

I'm fairly sure that how BAM was created (well, unmade) in the first place. She used to be something else, but then she became a Splinter of Odium. By the same logic, she should be considered a Splinter of Autonomy after the transformation you describe. This also doesn't sound like Autonomy to me because: A. Rayse would probably see this as a hostile action (he works with others, but only when he's in charge) and they seem to have been allies so far B. Autonomy used to create Avatars instead of corrupting Investiture in the past, and I don't see why she would change her modus operandi out of the sudden Something was definitely happening to Ba-Ado-Mishram (and Sja-anat as well), but I think it was something more subtle (like spiritweb modification rather than full-on co-opting Investiture) and aimed at hurting Odium (even if it didn't work out with BAM). Also, I can see two culprits more likely than Autonomy on Roshar: Cultivation and whoever/whatever Unity is

He would become a target basically instantly, though. This kind of Oath would essentially stop him from being able to defend himself and some groups in Cosmere (Ghostbloods or the Ire, for example) would love to put their hands on that kind of power Yeah, Szeth is perfect for this. He already killed a king, it's time for him to kill a god

I just stumbled upon it by accident - as it turns out, there was a historical event called the Night of Sorrows (La Noche Triste), during which the Spanish conquistadors (and their native allies) were driven out of Tenochtitlan. I wonder if it could have been any inspiration for Stormlight plot (possible given that Brandon probably researched Aztec history for the Aztlanian). If so, I see at least two possibilities for what Odium's Night of Sorrows could be: taking Urithiru from the Radiants driving Honor's forces out of Roshar What do you think?

We know that a gemstone containing a spren can be split into parts without releasing the spren - that's how spanreeds work. Maybe that's how you make sure that an Unmade doesn't escape (assuming you can't release them without all/most fragments)?

Still imprisoned, I guess. Gavilar's black spheres are a popular candidate - we know he was investigating the cause of the slaveform and he seemed to have been on the right track

I really like this solution (someone taking up Odium and swearing a binding Oath to prevent damage), but unfortunately it's very easy to bypass. All you need to say is "Moash, the Shard is yours!" (and suddenly I'm thinking about a certain future quote from Mistborn...). I don't think any Oath besides total isolation and inability to give up the Shard would work and no sane person (or in Taravangian's case, insane) would probably sign up for this kind of hell

Cognitive Realm is already a flattened version of the Physical Realm, so I think there may be something to it:

Patji counts as a Shard with an asterisk, so I wouldn't be so sure. I don't think Autonomy would provide something similar to Voidlight. Stormlight and Cultivationlight are quite distinctive and I don't see any reason why Autonomylight would be different. Also, the Unmade were specifically confirmed to be of Odium: There is definitely something weird about Ba-Ado-Mishram though. Maybe Ba-Ado-Mishram is simply an Odium Avatar? It could explain why she and the rest of the Unmade weren't imprisoned on Braize