ConfusedCow

What intricate complexity? ... WOB "GRRM is on the right track he just needs like 6 more worlds, each with like three magic system, and extra dimensional parallels, and 4 groups of non-human sentients, and an overarching 16 part celestial mythology. And let's have the same characters jump back and forth with different names. ... but keep it simple."

@Frustration, Fair enough, another reason to look forward to number 5. Who do you think Odium's champion will be? El, the poet warrior lurking in the corner? Seems kind of straight forward, especially for someone who loves intricate complexity as much as Brandon.

There have been hints of Adolin's impending descent. His assassination of Sadeas for starters. Also his worsening relationship with Dalinar. He hasn't really come to terms with blaming his father for his mother's death. His conspicuous lack of a spren. The loss of his horse. The way he plunges recklessly into battle. The way he seems lost in a quickly changing world and looks for something to hold on to. It's subtle, but it's there. The Kaladin-Shallan-Adolin love triangle going sideways and being a catalyst for Adolin's switch has also been significantly foreshadowed. Adolin never settledowns with a girl. Shallan literally does not know her own mind. That scene in the highstorm, in the chasms. A certain Freudian dynamic in Shallan, regarding Adolin and her father. This series is all about people switching sides, betrayal, the fallabilaity of people and the dangers of trust. From the Tower to the Recreance, from Shallan killing her parents to Moash betraying Kaladin. Adolin's fall "to the dark side" will be fast and shocking but also seem natural and real, because of the excellent foreshadowing and context.

Sadeas named four.

Um... Adolin is going to be Odium's champion. 1) He's the best fighter on Roshar and the most emotionally difficult to kill. Easy choice for Mr. T. 2) Like most villains, his hobbies are fashion, collecting exotic weapons, and political assassination. 3) Shallan feels safe around Adolin, but she feels hot around Kaladin. So that's going to end well. 4) This series is about how broken people can become heroes. We need to consider the opposite how someone pleasant and balanced can become evil. 5) His final confrontation with Shallan/Kal/Dalinar/Renarin is the conclusion of every emotional arc and thus the series.

So after my first listen to Lux a lot of things didn't make sense. Feel free to add questions of your own or answer mine. Even though I finished scratching my head, I liked the book. Here's what I would ask while enjoying some sherbert with Jax and crew. 1) How do Lifeforce's powers work? How can he gift to epics? Does each raven have their own cell block of prisoners? Deathrise injection? 2) Why is anyone afraid of Lifeforce and Languish? David could have killed them both before breakfast. 3) Does Wingflare ever get a break to pee? Has she ever considered just watching ninja warrior? 4) Are the boomerang watches the real sinister immortal? 5) What happened to the whole reversing epic powers thread is that going anywhere or.... 6) Does Paige have the epic ability to make everyone trust her? 7) How did the reckoners hide out in Lux for weeks without anyone finding them? 8) What is life like in Lux? Who thinks a ferris wheel belongs in Utopia? Is Disturbia the national anthem? Are the people allowed to pee off the edge? 9) Does Paige have Lovestruck's silver ring, is she her daughter? sister? 10) What happened to the Californian guy? Does he live in a hotel.

I think to Honor, dying in glorious battle for a noble cause is not a terrible fate. This isn't a curse he's left mortals with. It's an opportunity to join in the quest for justice across the Cosmere. I disagree of course. War is too easily glorified. It becomes an inevitability that justifies itself. It's too easy to lose sight of other's humanity and the universe of options once you start fighting. Still it's a common enough frame of mind and the natural outlook of a worldview dominated by the intent of honor.

I don't disagree with you Oltux. Honor did make himself vulnerable in helping the humans and the Singers and Roshar. He spent too much of himself in trying to contain Odium. In the end though it wasn't a tactical blunder, it was a grand sacrifice for love and duty. Helen's beauty was the death of Hector. Arthur loved Guenevere and Guenevere loved Lancelot. As Tyrion would say "Sometimes duty is the death of love".

Cultivation betrayed honor, at least in my mind/theory. I don't think Honor is responsible (in a technical ethical sense) for the eternal cycle of desolations. Though I don't deny he played a part in getting us there.

He was betrayed by Cultivation. She changed, grew beyond his love, his sense of duty, the restrictions he put upon himself. His embrace became a prison rather than a shelter. He saw it coming, understood her nature, knew she would betray him and choose freedom, passion, Odium. Still he loved her. Still he felt bound by his oaths to her. This drove him insane, crushed his faith in people. He could have fought, could have fled, could have lived. He chose instead to die slowly, in the hope that someone else might take up his power and find the answers, the faith, the love he couldn't.

There could be a unique ecology in the misted mountains. Influxes of both of Shin and Rosharan organisms, adapted to micro climates with widely differentiated pressure, humidity and temperature. Seperated by inhospitable terrain and protected from human and singer interference. The Andean Cloud Forests with flying eels and giant crustaceans. I hope we get to 'see' it.

I don't think Shallan is written as a strong woman archetype. She's more a child coming of age archetype, think Katniss not Hermione. Her character has a lot of depth, the inner trauma, the obsession with lies, her art, her romance. I think she's insane and dangerous, brilliant and beautiful. She's as likely to end the world as save it, but whatever she does she'll do it with style.

Smiling platitudes like platypuses all love shallow waters. Still, breath Chinkoln breath. Still waters shall allow love. All platypuses like platitudes. Smile

Perhaps to Jasnah an atheist is only a person who believes that any god who needs dominion and worship from lesser mortals does not deserve it.

I want to discuss keteks, specifically their form. This thread is about my stylistic thoughts and some tools for writing keteks. There is already a great thread for sharing keteks, Keteks for All!, which includes lots of beautiful keteks and a few of my own. Keteks must read the same forward and backward (allowing for changes in verb form) and have a five part structure. Following these rules are difficult, but the point is not to just show how cleverly you can follow the rules. The structure creates contrasts and parallels. The first part is contrasted by the form to the fifth part. The fourth segment appears as a reflection of the second. The third part emerges as a central pivotal idea. Each ketek has simultaneously a sequential structure and a reflective structure which relate the different ideas. The idea of writing keteks is not to communicate despite the difficult form, but rather to use the form to communicate by taking advantage of the parallels, reflections and contrasts. This is done by maintaining the symmetric word structure while creating asymmetry in the meaning and parts. If you accept my opinion that the point of writing a ketek is to draw out contrasts, then we conclude that we should try to change the meaning of the parts of the ketek so that the ketek is not repetitive. To help, I have made a list of tools, ways of changing the meaning while preserving the structure. When I write a ketek and struggle with a particular part or idea, I go down this list to help me think of ways to fix the problem. 1) Word Order - This tool is forced upon us, but it is worth paying attention to which phrases create a much different meaning when inverted and which don't. (beautiful forests, leaves green with hidden glades) means pretty much the same thing as (glades hidden with green leaves, forests beautiful). I recommend looking for phrases which when inverted mean very different things. For example, (war of love) means something quite different than (love of war) or (children fear monsters) and (monsters fear children). 2) Punctuation - This is probably the most useful and versatile tool. You can completely alter the meaning of a phrase with punctuation. (Dying alone.) means a totally different thing than (dying... alone?) It is also possible to use punctuation to break up confusing inversions and make them more palatable to the reader. (I am hungry.) becomes the starwarsesque (hungry am I) but with some punctuation becomes (Hungry? Am I?). The inversion of word order involved in Keteks makes them confusing for the reader. It is easy to get lost in vague statements and confusing word orders. Readers will only work so hard to get your meaning. As a poet you have to use the punctuation to hold your readers' hand and reassure them. I dislike the practice of using slashes to delineate the five segments of your ketek. It feels choppy. Ideally, the five segments should be clear from the meaning and punctuation. 3) Adding Words - This tool is too often ignored. In writing a ketek I sometimes find that I have inverted a phrase which almost works. Consider this inversion, (In writing, I find peace, rarely, peace find I, writing in). Almost good, but it's too symetrical 'I find peace' and 'peace find I' are too alike, and the last phrase writing in doesn't make sense. To fix this I can add some words. (Silence! In writing, I find peace. Hauntingly rare, haunting peace found. I write in silence.) First, I wanted to add 'silence' to 'writing in' which made that phrase work. Then I used the exclamation mark to create a contrast in beginning. Shouting silence is always somewhat contradictory, which is a good thing in a ketek. I then tried to highlight the uncertain feeling of peace by adding the word 'haunting' to 'peace found'. The final ketek has symetric words but not symmetric meanings and phrase structure, which is the goal. The center word is like a free word you can add in, a blank scrabble tile, which you can use to fix a lot of problems. This process of adding words which fix some problem phrases but adds more has to be balanced by a pruning process. There is a risk of your ketek becoming too wordy and confusing, which will dilute the power of the contrasts created and burden your reader. 4) Verb forms - So altering verb forms is allowed in Keteks. This can be used to place the different parts of the Ketek at different times. In the first half (we are falling). In the second half (fallen are we). This change in tense is why many keteks have a sense of time and movement about them. I have also found switching to commands to be useful. (Bowed, Bow!) I think there is some question on what exactly is allowed. For example, Jasnah changes 'United' to 'Unity' and El changes 'knowledge' to 'knowing'. 'Unity' and 'knowledge' are not strictly speaking verbs. They are verbs turned into nouns, nominalisation I think it's called. This seems to be okay, only one part of the pair needs to be a proper verb. What does not show up in the examples given is an instance where the little words around the verb are changed, like in an infinitive. You cannot change 'knowing' into 'to know'. Nor can you change the form of adverbs (Quick run) should not be turned into (running quickly), no matter how tempting it is. Finally, I see no case where a verb is altered into its negation 'bind' to 'unbinding' is no good. I don't think we should be too hard or strict about the form. Brandon for example includes a Ketek by Allahn where 'Radiant' is turned into 'Radiants', which I would consider a mistake in the form. Such a strict art form would have different schools some looser, some stricter within it. Just remember the closer you stick to the form the more work it will do for you. 5) Context - The hardest and simplest tool. Words can change their meaning simply by what comes before and after them. Imagine a ketek where someone starts with an 'Ocean, quiet' and then moves on to discuss storm and loss before returning to the now 'quiet ocean'. They have been changed by the journey and the words might be similar but the ocean which began with feelings of peace, adventure and hope now is tinged with sadness, regret and uncertainty. This kind of change in meaning, is subtle and powerful and when done right masterful. This must be set up by the rest of the Ketek both in form and meaning. Waves, ocean, quiet beneath, resting. "Now sailors, We return!" I, only I, return. We sailors now rest beneath quiet ocean waves. So that's my list of ketek tools. I think in general authors should choose simple, concrete subjects for their keteks, making breakfast, trying to ask a girl to dance. In writing them avoid flowery language or imagery and do as much pruning as you can. This will make the final product easier to read and understand. The form itself will make you look articulate, clever and deep. I'm going to write some analysis of Brandon's keteks to show how to use the tools above in reading keteks. Finally, I'm a mathematician and a teacher, not an expert or the poetry police. You should take my opinions as just opinions and write what speaks to you. Thanks for reading. I hope this encourages people to write more keteks. I do really like the idea of them.

Fourth Ideal Ketek Everyone protected? Cannot I accept failing again. Defeated again, failing. Accept. I cannot protect everyone.

Rhythm of war is not as good as the previous three. Still worth the money but lost some of the magic. Brandon would be a better writer if he had a bit more pain and sadness in his life.

Thanks to Beni-Kujaku for the compliments. Made my day. I agree that breaking the symmetry and changing the meaning of the phrases is key to a good Ketek. I've found the best way to break the symmetry is to write the Ketek down and then smash your forehead against it. Here's one written by a Fused. Feedback much appreciated, spoilers for Rhythm of War.

I suppose there could be some kind of Gemcycle. Gemstones are somehow created by investiture and crem inside creatures native to Roshar. Then broken apart or ground down, perhaps in the stomachs of large predators or by some geologic process. Then mixed with mud, water and other minerals to form Crem. Finally, being swept up by a highstorm and redeposited. I know that's not how gems are formed in real life, something about pressure and heat. I imagine gemstones exist in all cremlings because they have comparable metamorphic life stages with transformations that seem to involve spren and highstorms. The gemstones of smaller cremlings must be nearly microscopic if the size ratios of greatshells are preserved. I wonder if there is a minimum size of gemstone a spren can inhabit? Do plants have gemhearts too, if not why do they seem to absorb crem? How do they interact as they clearly do with life spren and investiture? I have so many questions about Rosharan Ecology. Someday I hope Brandon has an assistant write up a book with all his notes on Rosharan ecology, preferably with some big beautiful illustrations.

I also wonder where all the gems go. If more are being created every day by many different kinds of fauna after a few thousand years they should litter the ground. Perhaps they are washed to the sea. I like to imagine vast greatshells proweling depths amongst unfathomable numbers of gemstones.

What exactly is honor (the concept)? We have been dancing around this question both in this thread and in the books. Brandon seems to suggest that it involves the making and keeping of oaths, but he also shows that there are multiple competing even conflicting, literally dueling, ideas of honor. Brandon is right a sense of honor is culturally contextual, perhaps more so than any other idea. What Brandon can't answer in a thousand pages, I can't answer in a thousand words. I think I see the soul of it though. At its heart honor is about letting, honesty, compassion, and courage guide our actions. I don't think Leshwi or The Heavenly Ones are doing that. Perhaps honor is a mortal thing. Can you have compassion if the lives of others are but passing moments to you? Can you have courage if you never die?

I've seen a lot of discussion about the honorable tactics of the 'heavenly ones'. I disagree that Leshwi and her fellow flying fused are being honorable. These duels favor fused. Consider the pros and cons of two types of engagement general combat vs duels. General combat favors the side with superior numbers, superior speed, superior stormlight, and superior weapons. In contrast, duels favor the side with superior experience, individual skill, and endurance. General combat would be fast and chaotic, the advantage of a shard blade that could cut a fused in half, or superior speed, or the greater access to stormlight. Individual skill would shine in the prolonged duels. Moreover, losing a duel is not really a problem for the Fused. They die then come back. A general combat might allow a large number of radiants to surround a small group of fused. They could then attempt to capture them, perhaps by bludgeoning them briefly unconscious and then draining their voidlight. This could remove them permanently. All of this is to say that I think the dueling favors the Fused not the windrunners. I think the Fused are exploiting the windrunners sense of honor to achieve more favorable conditions and that the windrunners if they had any sense would change their tactics and 'carry the bridge together'. What about Leshwi? I don't think she's particularly honorable either. I think she recognizes that killing Kaladin is the real prize here, but that she can't do it in the air. She could be drawing him into a trap or just learning about him, what matters to him... who matters to him.

I think you should wait to preserve the integrity of the experience. I also think you should avoid excess caffeine, sugar, and wasting your time on the internet during the middle of the night.

I stand corrected. Questioner Is Jasnah being able to Soulcast at a distance the resonance of her two Surges or is that just a Radiant thing that's not with the fabrials. Brandon Sanderson Jasnah's Order is better at that than others. It is not impossible that you could imagine a Lightweaver being able to do it.

@IcaroRibeiroI think being able to summon stormlight would be very useful in one on one combat. Your opponent would tire out but you wouldn't. @Watchcry I'm discussing the soulcasting at a distance on Discord. I may have been mistaken in thinking that was a resonance. Also I have angered the wobbot.