HSuperLee

Living plate, if I had to guess can probably insulate itself against heat fairly well, though I have no real evidence for this and am speculating. Dead plate you actually don't need to burn or melt through, even assuming it blocks the transfer of heat. Once their air is hot enough that it begins to burn the shardbearer's face and lungs, then there's not much dead plate can do to seal the environment and save them. That puts the maximum temperature a non-radiant could withstand somewhere in the low-to-mid 100's Fahrenheit (yes, I'm American. Mid 60's C for y'all metrics). And that's assuming that plate can defend against thermal conduction. As I'm indicating, radiants probably wouldn't have that issue, as they could block convection by sealing their plate. And ultimately, since radiants can probably survive in space with just stormlight and plate, I'm assuming they have a way to deal with heat, or the radiation of nearby suns would fry them.

So pitting a shardbearer against a cannon is an entirely different scenario than pitting one against guns. Sure, the shot might not actually break the blade if blocked by it, but conservation of momentum is still going to kick in, even if the shardbearer tries to brace. For a non-surgebinder, this would without a doubt kill them. Now, with a surgebinder there will be a lot of factors, but I think a cannon is going to do a substantial amount of damage. Yes, they can probably regenerate it with stormlight, but it would take a lot because the amount of internal injuries would be immense and, unless they took the hit just right, they probably wouldn't be in a condition to breathe in more stormlight until they've had a chance to heal a bit (like how Kal couldn't breathe in more light when the Pursuer kept severing his spine.)

Something I think is lacking from this discussion is that, as Duxredux pointed out, hard-vs-soft magic is a narrative tool. I'm reminded of how when Jim Butcher was asked which he preferred, he said something along the lines of, "all magic is hard, its just depends on whose head your in. If you follow a character who doesn't know how the magic works, it will seem soft. But to the author all magic systems are hard because the author knows exactly what the magic can or can't do." Where this enters into our discussion here is that, in general, those of us who discuss magic mechanics here in the forums are closer to the author perspective. We are learning the fundamentals of how investiture works and are able to piece things together from multiple invested arts by comparing and contrasting the different manifestations of investiture. This does not mean that Whimsy can't have invested arts that seem random and soft. It just means that it will be a "bounded randomness." To the people of Whimsy's world, they might believe there is no reason whatsoever to the magic, but we as the fans will probably see some of the underlying principles of investiture, even if there's no way the people in-world could know about it. All of Sanderson's magic seems very hard to us when in-world its a lot softer.

The main issue with developing and employing guns on Roshar is that until you get to more modern bullets that have their own contained propellant then you have to deal with the higher oxygen composition of Roshar's atmosphere making explosions and fire way more dangerous. Rosharans are far more likely to develop fabrial guns rather than firearms simply because they would struggle to get through the musket and flintlock stages of gun development. In regards to efficacy against shardplate, I think we need to consider that shardplate is more likely to deflect a bullet rather than stop a bullet. In one sense, this means shardplate would do rather well against guns. But the other, that bullet is going to go somewhere, which means it likely is going to end up being dangerous to be near a shardbearer when guns are in play. This next part is speculation, but I suspect this also how we synthesize the idea that shardplates are fairly good against guns, yet Wax could break plate with two or three shots. If shardplate works well against bullets because it deflects them, then it might be reasonable to say that when that deflection is prevented, it would be more vulnerable than we might expect (which is not to say useless or even less useful than modern ballistic armor.) The result is that if you can get a precise shot so that the bullet doesn't deflect you might be able to quickly overwhelm the plate. Especially if you are firing with any kind of semi-automatic gun and fire very quickly. Wax has pulled off some absurd shots so he might find it particularly easy to hit a plate just right so as to overcome the deflecting properties.

What we've really been discovering as more and more about the mechanics of investiture are revealed is that all magic systems seem to have a lot of the same fundamental properties when you start getting into a detailed level of scientific analysis, and thus you can "hack" the systems in various ways to make them resemble other systems. So I wouldn't be surprised if what you're saying is possible. Though the innately transferable nature of breath would make it interesting in that you could theoretically transfer more than just memory. Let's say you're a parent on your deathbed who has decided to transfer your breath to your child before you die. You could choose to pass everything onto them. Your strength, memory, remaining lifespan, maybe even things like your fortune or other spiritual qualities. While its true that as a dying person you might not have a lot of physical ability to transfer, every little bit would make a difference, and the spiritual and mental traits would likely be undiminished and nearly double the recipient's abilities.

I suspect that we've not met them yet. As much as Shardworlds are going to have the highest amount of free investiture to lead to powerful individuals, there doesn't necessarily seem to be a direct correlation between quantity of investiture and efficacy of powers. For example, forgery is an immensely powerful invested art, yet its actually has a very low level of investiture. Thus I have reason to suspect we've not seen all the most powerful of the invested arts. Now, considering potential rather than realized power, I'd argue that Rsyn may have one of the greatest power potentials in the Cosmere, being one of the Dawnshards.

I'm struggling to find the WoB, but I thought we had heard at one point that liquid was the most potent state of materialized investiture. It seems to me that if the order is different from normal materials, then the phase order would be gas -> solid -> liquid. Which is honestly really weird. But I definitely like the way you're thinking and you're probably onto something.

This comment made me realize that in the far future of the Cosmere, there might be whole medical textbooks dedicated to Hemalurgy and how the bind points interact with different metals, as well as information such as how to find the bind points on bodies of different proportions and possible even things like using hemalurgic needles to provide short micro-boosts to different traits, such as using hemalurgic needles during surgery to provide specific parts of the body with strength or healing. Basically, magic acupuncture taken to an extreme.

I'm definitely in the I do not like it camp, and while I have a couple different reasons, the largest is just that it makes me feel uncomfortable. I mean Hoid's age has to be counted in millennia and, unless something weird happens, Jasnah will be dust in what is a blink of an eye from his perspective. There is something about an ancient immortal falling in love with someone who's not even forty yet. That situation just feels unethical to me even if its not necessarily amoral.

I feel like this question is the Cosmere equivalent of asking what would happen if one of the four fundamental forces disappeared for a second. Physics isn't really prepared to answer that question fully because physics is dependent on the existence of the four fundamental forces. Realmatically, I'm not sure we can answer this because realmatics are kinda predicated on the existence of the Connection.

This thread is making me realize there is another possibility. Divine hatred given context through order and oaths? I'd call that Wrath.

"There's always another secret."

I was intentionally avoiding giving that answer. So thanks, Frus, for having my back here so that I don't have to give the Doyalist answer when I don't want to.

Awakening seems to slightly distort the properties of the objects imbued with it to allow them to accomplish their awakened task. After all, a rope doesn't have any muscles by which to wrap itself around something, and Vasher's pants and shirt certainly shouldn't be able to be ridged enough to enhance his strength and grip. While there might be some stiffness to a soulcasted body, I actually imagine that since it would still have the full shape of bones and muscles and joints it actually would be easier for awakening to animate it, as all that would be needed is for the breath to mimic life in the material, which is explicitly what it is very good at, as shown by the fact that awakened materials like cloth take on the shape of things like hands or limbs regardless of the initial form of the material, if at all possible.

I don't think we'll ever see a time where being a natural metalborn isn't significant, it'll just be less about the abilities you uniquely possess and more about how much a resource that person can be to others. My assumption is that you actually need metalborn to make medallions, for example. Now, I'm not so convinced of the theories that say it requires hemalurgy, but I do assume that you need a firesoul to make a f-brass medallion, for example, even if once its made anyone could fill or compound with it. As such, metalborn would still be valued for their ability to produce medallions, or the fact that they can have more powers at once than just the medallion would grant, since their own powers wouldn't interfere with eachother (that we know of) meaning metalborn might still have a higher power potential. Nevermind the fact that, even with access to medallions people will still have different levels of skill with each metal and those naturally born to those powers will likely be more skilled with them than those who acquire them artificially. All that to say, I do agree that the role of metalborn will be less significant, I just don't believe it will become irrelevant to Scadrian society.

Yes, I have read and seen Invincible. Its my favorite comic series, so I own every issue. That series could darn well be a case study on why interspecies romances don't work. You gave an example from the show, so I'm going to assume you haven't read the full series, so I'll just say this: What you mentioned is no where near as bad as it gets. Interspecies romance, especially when there are significantly disparate lifespans, lead to problems.

Rosharans do actually have a higher level of investiture than your average person in the Cosmere, just to how highly saturated their planet is with free investiture. On a small scale it has little impact on individual Rosharans. It would be interesting to have that extra measured in Breaths, but it certainly wouldn't even reach the double digits. But that's a tangent. As I said, individually that extra investiture has very little impact. But on a whole it makes Rosharans less susceptible to disease, which is why plagues are so rare on their world. Relevant WoB:

I stated in a previous thread that I could see the Sibling leaving Roshar to become the spacestation/mothership: Urithuru rather than just the tower: Urithuru. Considering the world went on mostly unchanged from the Sibling's pretend "slumber" for so long, Roshar could probably go one fairly unchanged without them. My only concern would be for the spren that seem to have formed an ecosystem around Urithuru in the Cognitive Realm. But I doubt any spren would be completely dependent on it, and they could probably return to more "natural" habitats. So then it would really be like clearing a birds nest out of a plane so it could fly again, which isn't too immoral.

You say aluminum is unique in that it is a metal with magical properties on another planet without being a god-metal, but the truth is that the more we learn about the advanced workings of magic systems, the more things like metal, color, and rhythm all start to appear as important in every magic system. We learned in RoW that metals have a great effect on fabrials, and we've seen from the beginning of SA how important the color of gemstones are, despite them being chemically almost identical. Meanwhile, we're only in retrospect realizing that the pulses a seeker can detect are probably related to the rhythms of investiture. My point is that aluminum having properties in every magic system isn't so unique. Rather, what's unique is how dramatic that effect is. And while I'm sure there is an explanation for that, I'm not convinced its because aluminum is a god-metal. I'll admit it might be, but my main hesitation is all the investiture "assigned" to Adonalsium took on a new "spin" when they shattered, meaning that aluminum would likely have split into the 16 different god-metals rather than simply becoming inert.

Apparently there's a fairly well known method by which some worldhoppers are able to delay the aging process. We don't know what it is, but its suggested in this WoB: Thus it can be assumed that even relatively low-investiture characters could potentially become worldhoppers that last to other eras. As to how compatible the Seventeenth Shard's methods are with other forms of investment, or how it might be improved or replaced by other methods, we simply don't know.

Interspecies relationship will always weird me out. Heck, I'm a massive comic book fan and yet even the idea of a Superman and Lois Lane relationship has always bothered me a bit, and he's basically just human with extra abilities. The idea of a spren/human relationship just seems like a whole series of red flags to me. So call me a cynic, but I can't find myself imagining a situation where it actually works.

Agreed, there was definitely a level of satisfaction in realizing that we, the fans, know more in some ways than a person that's been built up as some kind of genius mastermind.

Okay, you've now inspired the image of Lift becoming the Mink's apprentice, and thus learns how to just occasionally disappear while leaving dummies in her place. And I find that hilarious.

Breaths are naturally very willing to give up their identity, which is how they are transferred from person to person. Thus, I suspect there probably are ways to phrase commands or to hold intents that would allow the Breaths to be recovered by anyone.

3 - I love everything about these worlds we've been shown and the contrast between them, and as someone who has come to love all form of art, I love the idea of seeing magic systems based around forms of art, and can't wait to see more about how it all works. 2 - Man I miss stand-alone books. I read so many series that sometimes its nice to have a story that can just stand on its own. 1 - I'm a sucker for well written love stories, and I think this one has the potential to be a really good one. I really like the characters, and so its nice to have a book that I can be excited to get to as a character reader rather than a plot reader, which is so often my primary approach to the Cosmere books. 4 - Its not that I'm not excited for this one. Its just that it being so Cosmere aware means that I won't be able to read the book for itself and just enjoy it for what it is, but have to be looking for all the connections (little c) and references to other books and series, which while fun, is giving me a slight sense of apprehension.