Child of Hodor

That sounds to me as though Taravangian was losing hope, and some external force helped tilt the scales in his favor. And what external force was that? Bravery, otherwise known as Valor! It did stick out to me when rereading that passage. He describes Bravery like people do when they perceive the true nature of a Shard, giving examples of what it represents and the only Shard that fits is Valor. We've seen this three other times in the Cosmere that I can think of. Dalinar viewing Odium in the spiritual realm: It was hatred. A deep, pulsing hatred with a pressure to turn all things molten. It was the heat of a thousand suns, it was the bliss of every kiss, it was the lives of all men wrapped up in one, defined by everything they felt. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Odium Mistborn Secret History: I think it's a good guess that Taravangian was Connecting to or being influenced by Valor in this moment. One thing to keep in mind is that the Shard investiture permeates all of the Cosmere, so the Shard doesn't have to be actively doing anything for some of it to be nearby. Also, Taravangian was partially in Odium's special gold room in the Cognitive realm while at the same time being stabbed to death in the Physical realm by Szeth while encountering the Vessel of a Shard which is mostly in the Spiritual realm. I don't know what my point is , but maybe this weird situation makes it easier for Taravangian to Connect to a Shard that's not in the local system. Or maybe Nightblood has a lot of Valor in him and that's where Taravangian is sensing it from.

Yeah, "Fortnite is still popular?" was my reaction. It is something no one would guess, that's for sure. Of all the things to see him "adapted" in I was not expecting Fortnite. So many fun theme park ideas! I'm thinking glowing, normal Elantris, but once in a while, on a random day, the walls become covered in slime. It's a hotel / theme park too. All in one, so you'll wake up in a hotel room with slime running down all the walls. On Slime Day they confiscate all painkillers as well.

LOL! I was thinking about things like Galaxy's Edge and what kind of specific world I'd want a theme park of. I love Brandon's work, but his most popular works feature either awful, deadly environments or they are just Earth. Imagine a Mistborn Era 1 theme park. Ash everywhere all the time. Terrible. My guess for today's announcement is Settlers of Catan tie-in novel or some similar 3rd-party IP novel.

Yeah, Odium seems to have influenced the Alethi / Vorin religion for his own purposes. I don't know that he is actually capturing souls of the dead before they passed on. He did that with the Fused, but he hasn't made any new Fused since the first desolation (per Raboniel). I interpreted what he said to mean he was making a planet full of societies that are used to constant war so they'd be more battle-hardened. The whole "kill every Shard via direct combat" thing has not worked out. He got 4 of them, but he was wounded and then trapped. Maybe he figured out a proxy war is a better way to do it. I don't know how a mortal army or, if he makes more Fused, a semi-immortal army of cognitive shadows will be able to kill Shard vessels. Then again Taravangian killed one.

LOL this is one of my favorites in this whole very fun thread. I'm imagining Kaladin falling upwards going "WhoAAA!" in a surprised, kinda nerdy voice. It's killing me.

These are great connections! Never thought about El interacting with Moash despite the name connection. It's also interesting how at the end of book 2 Moash was off to join the Diagram and work for Taravangian. That got immediately derailed, but he ended up working for Taravangian eventually anyways. I assume the switch came because Brandon moved Dalinar's book from 5 to 3 making Rayse lose Dalinar earlier than originally outlined and making the Taravangian switch necessary. Moash probably would have been the new Szeth for Taravangian in that alternate version of the story. I agree with your larger point that Moash can realize he's wrong within book 5 and begin to seek to be better. I'm not saying the whole book will take place in 10 days, but a majority of it will. The contest of champions begins at noon 10 days after RoW ended. Part of the agreement is that each side gets to keep whatever land they have control over at that point. It's going to be a mad scramble to capture and keep as much as possible. Since that contest of champions has been mentioned since book 1 and is meant to settle the big Shard conflict of the front 5 I don't think it will happen before Part 4. Brandon likes to surprise, but having the contest in Part 2 would be a bit much. I think Brandon is referring to that in the WoB below. Things they did in 4 that will make Karen's (his continuity editor) job a lot harder in book 5. She's the one that keeps track of timelines, when different peoples POV chapters take place in relation to each, what moon is out in night scenes, where the highstorm and everstorm are in relation to where and when the scene is taking place. If most of the book takes place in 10 days (say through part 4) then that's a hundreds of thousands of words describing events that are happening all over Roshar at nearly the same time which makes it harder to keep it all straight.

I have a hard time seeing what Moash will do to redeem himself with most of book 5 set to take place in 10 days. He could do a Darth Vader redemption where he saves one person's life and dies almost immediately. I don't see a really earned, worked for change happening in 10 days. Granted it will be a very busy 10 days that's described in hundreds of thousands of words. What is his role going to be now that he is blind or will Odium fix that immediately? What was the point of blinding him then? Are we going to get a "Moash learns to live with his disability and has a change of heart along the way" arc over 10 days?

Logic could work too, but I just don't like the name, maybe Logos. Honor is about natural laws, codes of law, bonds, and agreements. When added to another Shard it brings a structure and discipline to it. Honor + Invention could be Science or the Scientific method which is a terrible name, but kind of fits. Yeah I know. Like I said above you can't really encapsulate all that a Shard represents in one word, much less two combined. Honor adds structure and rules to whatever it combines with. Odium didn't want to pick up another Shard because that would change what it's nature and it would be less focused on going around destroying things. Odium will inevitably be mellowed out or diluted by adding back the other attributes that gave it context. That all consuming anger becomes directed toward something more specific when it merges with another Shard.

Yeah, Justice / Vengeance. I see it as that hatred tethered to a code of law, morals, ethics. It will only unleash that hatred under certain circumstances. It's hard to see how each Shards full domain of meaning can be preserved and represented in a new name when they combine. Honor has to do with natural laws of physics as well as societal laws and oaths, but War and Justice don't touch on that at all. Frankly, the shard name Honor doesn't hint at it either.

"War" is a narrow name for a combo of 2 shards. Odium kind of covers Conflict though. Sja-Anat thinks to herself that the power Odium loves conflict and being argued with, while Rayse did not. War is a conflict with a wider scope and more "rules" that may or may not actually be followed. I don't like it for a the Shard name though. I like Justice. You follow the rules, you're fine, you break the rules you get God's righteous anger. Basically Honor, but he'll wreck you if you break your word, the rules, the law etc.

Emperor's Soul is short and great. Warbreaker would be the most relevant novel to read after Stormlight. It has more direct connections to Stormlight than any other and is a stand alone novel.

The weird thing about Rayse dying is how irrelevant he now seems. As Harmony explained to Hoid in the epigraphs, going around killing all the Vessels and splintering the other Shards is as much or more Odium the Shard's idea as it was Rayse's. Odium talks to Travangian after Rayse dies, but before he picks it up. When Taravangian picks it up he sees how Rayse had become "enslaved" by Odium the Shard. Even if Taravangian dies in Book 5 the Shard will still have a mind of it's own unless Cultivation and Honor do something to either splinter it, merge it with another Shard splinter it and merge with the pieces. Voidbinding If H or C or both merge with parts of Odium that would probably alter the magic system and set us up to learn more about voidbinding in the back 5. I think what was mentioned on the podcast might be right voidbinding doesn't really exist yet, but it will. We're being tricked and that voidbinding chart is demonstrating something that doesn't exist as of front 5, but will soon.

You both make good points, the Dilaf example is good pull! Kelsier is capable of feeling guilty, but he is some sociopathic personality markers and takes real glee in killing at times. Dalinar did as well with the Thrill, but clearly felt guilty and was traumatized by what he did at the Rift. Szeth feels guilty already when he is introduced. I believe it's the first thing he says.

This is great. I forgot about his wanting to tell Dalinar something to help him. Only thing I add is how he always exemplified Odium's "blame me" "let me have the pain" M.O. since book 1. In addition, Rayse liked to be worshipped and Taravangian does in his way as well.The chip on his shoulder and insecurity about his potential "diminished capacity" from his difficult birth lend him to being needy in that way. This goes underscores your point on him needing to be THE hero to save everyone, he can't let it be Dalinar. "It is better for one man to sin than for a people to be destroyed" WoK Ch. 71 "He worshipped only one god now. The man he was on that day" RoW I-14 "I must hang all four men." He paused "And I would weep, every night for having done it." OB Ch 28 "Taravangian finally faced something greater than himself: a different version of himself." OB I-5

It doesn't seem to impact everyone who kills a ton of people equally though. It is weird Szeth hears them, seemingly, all the time. Dalinar did a bit before and during his trip to the Valley, the screams of his victims from the fire. He also hears Evi right before he does the clap in Oathbringer. But he doesn't hear them all the time. I'm just saying there are POV characters that have killed a bunch of people and don't hear anything. Szeth's bodycount is high, but it's not thaaaat high for Roshar. Brandon mentions the wider Cosmere, but I can't think of anyone else that has this happen to them. Mistborn spoilers: @LightShaper1 I used to assume Szeth hears the voices because there is an Unmade following him around. Despite what Brandon said in the WoB I think this is a more Roshar-centric thing. One of the Unmade being a spren that helped the dead pass on until Odium got to them makes sense to me. I would say Moelach fits the what you are describing better than Yelig-nar. Seeping into souls at the moment of death.

The Iriali are a whole thing. It's fun to guess at what the 3 prior planets they were on. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Iri My guess is they were originally mostly humans and some dragons (who can shapeshift into humans) from Yolen, Nalthis and Sel. Yolen the first, the other two I'm not sure, leaning towards Sel second. Nalthis Iri's neighbor, Rira are related to the Iriali. Rira split off from Iri politically and genetically most people living there are related at least somewhat to the Iriali. Evi was one such person. This is why the Iriali say Dalinar stole the shardplate, it can be traced back to Iri through Rira. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Rira_(country) Anyways, Evi says some weird color idioms that make no sense to Dalinar "life will be as white as a sun at night" OB Ch. 36. Much like Zahel's many saying involving color confuse Kaladin "green from the ground" etc. It's not a lot to go on, but she makes color metaphors because people around her growing up did and I think that's because the Iriali spent time on Nalthi and these idioms were passed down. Sel (original Elantrians) 1) The name of their current country is Iri. In Mistborn: SH book we meet worldhoppers from Sel called the Ire. I am not saying these are the same group. However, this is either a deliberate mislead or a hint. I mean, come on! They call themselves a similar thing because the Iriali were on Sel long enough to incorporate the language of Sel and there are still traces of it in modern Iriali culture. 2) Names. A big thing about Sel and Elantris in particular is the Aon Dor and all the Aons. Each Aon is three letters. We don't know many Iriali related names, but we know a few like Iri, Evi her brother Toh. This seems like something the Iriali picked up from spending time on Sel. 3) Empty Elantris. The modern Elantrians from the period the book Elantris takes place in are descended from people who found the city of Elantris fully built and completely empty. They did not build it and don't know who did. https://coppermind.net/wiki/Elantris_(city)#Discovery. Maybe something wiped out everyone living in Elantris without a trace. Or maybe they left in a mass migration that is part of their The Long Trail religion because they were the people we now know of as the Iriali.

Szeth's current spren has never spoken to him. He sees glimpses of it and can faintly sense it sometimes, but it doesn't talk to him directly. Szeth tells Nightblood that when Szeth was younger he had a voice in his head similar to Nightblood's Was the voice in Szeth's head from years ago actually his current spren? As in he bonded this spren at a low level years ago and it never really left him. Or they never quite bonded, but the spren has kept an eye on Szeth and thinks its OK to resume the bonding process now. That would be the writerly reason not to have them speak directly, Szeth would recognize the voice. In-world you could say it's because the spren doesn't like Nightblood or something, but really it's to keep it a surprise. What's been going on in between then and now? I dunno, but we already had the testament / pattern weirdness we can have a dormant bond restored or the bond was not fully established and the spren has been hanging around Szeth observing.

Brandon does a lot of resurrection or fakeout deaths in Stormlight and I think "does he do this too much?" then I think back to the original Mistborn. Really bad things happen to almost everyone in that original crew by the end. The world is easily the grimmest in environment with the ash mounts constantly spewing and the society is horribly oppressive, par for the course with a lot in the Cosmere (and real life). On the original question I wouldn't categorize Brandon's work as grimdark. Grimlight would work as @Bridge-Four suggested. Pretty much all of this. Most all of Brandon's protagonists are fundamentally good people, some of whom committed war crimes they forgot about, but still decent people being trying to be good to others. Mistborn Era 1 being the one big exception where Kelsier and Vin (in the first book or so) are maybe not the best people. Selfish, misanthropic, narcissistic (less so with Vin). In "Lord Grimdark" Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy:

Adolin's mission might not be as pointless as it seems. Now that Fused can perma-kill spren, other radiant spren may be able to swoop in and bond the former radiants right away and perhaps not lose their oath level. I don't know how that will work, we've not seen another spren come in to bond right away. The Testament - Pattern situation developed years apart and we don't really understand that yet, plus Testament wasn't vaporized forever. You're right the 10-day conceit is a potential problem. Most spren have been adamantly opposed to bonding humans for thousands of years. It's a bit of a stretch for ton of them to change their thousands year old position on bonding within 2 Rosharan weeks. It will "make sense" because they are cognitive realm beings and Adolin/Maya changed their minds, but it may feel too fast. I suspect there will be a lot of "well, that was quick" changes of heart and such with the most of the book likely taking place in 10 days. Kalak was super fun, surprisingly funny. I think he's how Adolin and Shallan will get back to the main group quickly. I think he has his Honorblade. He was "out on patrol" for months when Shallan and Adolin first got into Lasting Integrity. He was probably checking in with Nale and Ishar (the only sane one ) and we know Ishar took his blade back recently and Nale took his back some time ago. If Ishar is correct and one or more Unmade has taken over Shinover, Kalak may have taken his blade back to get it out of there. He has the transportation surge and knows a lot more about how to use that surge than any current radiant. He can probably portal them back to Dalinar. Looking forward to Kalak bumping into a guy who is named after him who he helped enslave, Kaladin. Kalak, as Restares, talked Amaram into taking the plate and blade for himself leading to Kaladin's enslavement. Awkward.

I think he mostly wanted to taunt Odium and maybe assess him. Hoid's been hiding from Rayse a long time, they haven't met in 1,000 years and Hoid wants to see what his mindset is or something. Hoid put himself in the agreement he thinks Odium can't do anything to him, but he was wrong. I don't know why new Odium bothered to show up either. Taravangian had no personal history with Hoid. Maybe because he knew it was something Rayse would have done and he wants to keep up appearances. When he's there he asks for advice on a champion, but I don't think that's why he went there.

That's a good point! That would make it harder to convince people that the physical realm planet is a sphere.

In the Way of Kings Wit tells Kaladin the story of the Wandersail. The ship that sought the Origin of the highstorms, found an island, accidently destroyed their society and then got back to the mainland. At the end Kaladin objects "But how could they? Highstorms only blow one direction." (WoK Ch. 57) Kaladin, buddy, the planet is round. If they kept going the same direction with the wind at their back they would eventually get to the other side of the continent they departed from. Kaladin is very stubborn. I can imagine him creating Flat Roshar club to denounce the idea that the planet is shaped like a sphere. Instead of "moon landing was faked" he's all "Derethil and the Wandersail was faked"

I feel like there is going to be a big change at the end of book 5 that will change both the political landscape and the magic systems. My theory is Taravangian dies and Cultivation's vessel adds Odium to her collection either in full or in part. Dalinar ascends fully as Honor maybe he gets a piece of Odium to absorb and Cultivation gets some as well. Odium, the Power, developed a mind of it's own. It talked to Taravangian after Rayse died and we could see it trying to escape from Rayse all book 4. We know from Harmony's comments in the epigraphs that Odium going around destroying and trying to kill all the Shards is as much or more coming from the Shard itself since Odium is still so focused on it thousands of years in. Killing Taravangian leaves a shard with it's own mind that still wants to kill the other Shards. Odium is God's anger and these other Vessels killed God and took his power. He's always angry, but he's especially angry at them and I'm sure he's angry at anyone that picked up the stolen power after any original vessels died. Odium, the Power is a huge problem even with no Vessel. Dalinar / Honor and Cultivation may tear it apart and absorb a piece to mitigate the problem (and create new ones for back 5). We've seen a lot of surgebinding in the front 5 and no voidbinding as far as we know. If Honor and Cultivation have significant portions of Odium mixed in that changes everything. I don't think all existing Radiant spren suddenly become Odium-infused, but any new ones that develop would. What does H+O look like? What does H+C look like. How do these changes to the nature of these Shards on this world impact it? Read the back 5 to find out! It would be a huge refresh button that allows Brandon to do new stuff and opens up this world of possibilities for readers to think about during the break. Yeah, there will be more world hoppers, more overt references to other planetary systems and magic systems. We saw Vasher use Breath to spar with Kaladin in book 4. He didn't go into explaining it, but it was there. Then in the epilogue Odium messes with Hoid's Breath where he stores his memories. More stuff like that. I'd love more Jasnah, wouldn't mind her being a world hopper showing up in future series. Wit definitely will.

IMO, the closest we get to seeing their "real" body is Urithiru in Shadesmar at the start of Act 2. Which, again, is basically a giant building, but more glowy and magical looking. "A shimmering mountain of light and color. They were created to be a building or to be the giant fabrial that runs throughout the building and controls it. They've never been shaped as anything else or if they were it's not mentioned or implied as far as I can tell.