SwordNimiForPresident

I don't have the text on me but it is mentioned in Elantris that an Aon drawn by an Elantrian can only be broken by another Elantrian. Later we learn that Dakhor monks can break them as well, so presumably anything that can interfere with Investiture. As a guess I'd say A-chromium could probably break one and a Bondsmith should certainly be able to. edit: also Nightblood, how that wasn't literally the first thing I thought of I don't know.

There's no evidence to support it, but it could just be Breath. The 5th heightening makes you immortal and isn't really even all that expensive. I could easily see the Ghostbloods giving out 5th heightenings to members. I could also see Shai acquiring it on her own before joining the Ghostbloods. She seems like a very enterprising young woman.

F-nicrosil and F-aluminum might be worth a point. It seems like medallions could be a pretty big deal once the Cosmere opens up a little more.

Weird. How do you even hit a nerve with a spike big enough to fill an eye socket? The mechanics are mind boggling. How do you pierce something that is 1μ wide with a railroad spike?

The wording of the question makes it to open ended to know what Brandon’s answer means. The questioner ask “if I hit the right bind point”, but the heart is the only bind point, so the answer is still yes. As for Spook, here’s the text from the book. It explicitly says that the spike pierced his heart.

I'm pretty sure Sazed doesn't trust Kelsier because Kelsier is going to end up as the Vessel of Autonomy, after he kills Bavadin of course. Kelsier having a Shard in the later on likely obscures Sazed's ability to see Kel's future and leaves him guessing about what he will do.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think bind points are for granting powers. To steal them you need to drive the spike through the victims heart with the proper intent.

I really tried not to post, but your reply was both factually incorrect, and intentionally dumb. Obviously not, as that would require an absurd amount of wealth. What are you even trying to argue here? Are you taking the position that people don't make non essential purchases based on their interests?

I specified above that the three spike rule would be in effect. I am familiar with Mistborn. Thank you for being condescending. So what you’re saying is that they don't have any rights and can be killed by the upper class at any time for any reason. That is generally how people choose to buy things that aren’t necessities. They were just an example, and how do you know? Literally anything, it feels like you’re just being contrary for the sake of filling the thread with useless statements. You willfully ignored that I mentioned three spikes in order to continue a pointless line of argument. You literally gave an example of how they have no rights and tried to present it as the opposite. You asked a question that I already said I lack the context to answer and used it to pretend that you made a point. Clearly this conversation is pointless, so I’m out.

It doesn’t literally say that a Bondsmith can mind control people with spikes. We do however know that a Shard can’t do that, even the Shard that creates the magic system and the people that use it. Show me something written or said by Brandon Sanderson that says a Bondsmith can mind control spike people. As I said, this appears to be a difference of opinion. Those “rights” are extremely limited in scope and applied selectively. Unless you think what happened with Moash’s family was totally cool and fair.. Not being a spren, I couldn't begin to guess. Probably anything that they thought was interesting. Medallions maybe? Information? Lies? Truths? Spren like weird stuff, I’m sure scadrial has something to offer. Didn’t Wyndle have a chair garden or something?

Heavy machinery is an advantage if they were defending, it would be less useful in the scenario that I was talking about. This is my mistake I guess, I didn’t realize that Wax, Wayne and Miles were the only twinborn in the world during Era2. Could you point me to where this is explained? I also wasn’t aware that we had census data to figure out that there were only 20000 metalborn on Scadrial. I was assuming that the Scadrial had at least tens of millions of inhabitants of which at least hundreds of thousands would be metalborn. I was assuming that they each only got three spikes so this doesn’t change anything. Probably F-gold and A-pewter at a minimum to make them combat effective. So Bondsmith mind control is purely fan fic. This is a matter of opinion I suppose. The people on Roshar have basically none of what we would consider basic human rights. You might not notice it because most of our viewpoint characters are wealthy, noble or powerful. I wasn’t ignoring anything. I have no horse in this race. My comments were merely me positing how things could go. Why wouldn’t Scadrial trade tech? It’s not like they can just make more.

I envy you. What it must have been like to grow up in a post triangle world.. Imagine if confirmation bias had a baby with head canon. Then that baby grew up and wrote bad romance fan fic. That's Shaladin in a nutshell.

We clearly have different ideas of what decent means. Reliable clean water comes out of a faucet when I turn it on, not out of a puddle when it rains. Consistent food means industrial processing and preserving, not hoping that the super rich people with magic jewelry will turn your garbage into blocks of tasteless gruel. Electricity is crucial to both of those things. For all the reasons I just said. If they aren't calderas, where are the "oceans" Rock talks about. I assumed they were dormant volcanoes with hot springs in the calderas, but I could be wrong. You're using the literal first person sent as your example. Maybe you're right though and we will only ever see a few people use the CR to travel to/from Scadrial for the rest of the Cosmere story. But I doubt it. They have all kinds of weird off world stuff to sell/trade.. the pro Roshar crowd seems to think that the Spren are going to see foreigners and immediately go on the war path. I think it much more likely that they would be curious. Or, she was going to make it so they can't sleep anymore as their boon, and cause them to hallucinate that they are being attacked constantly as their curse.. which would still abide by the letter of that offer. edit: is it just me, or has Scadrial vs Roshar become the new Shaladin?

They don't need large numbers in my hypothetical scenario, they would just need enough to hold the caldera around Cultivation's perpendicularity. It being under water wouldn't likely be a major barrier to various twinborn enhanced with spikes and armed with medallions (one of which can provide breath). You would probably need less than 1000 people. The fact that it is unlikely that Scadrian's would know about the Honorblades being in Shinovar doesn't change the fact that taking them would be the most viable strategy, which is what I was postulating. I'm also not clear on where Bondsmith are gaining their mind control powers from? I don't recall seeing this in the books. I guess this is an agree to disagree? Roshar is basically feudal, even in the "democratic" governments the only people voting are the rich (merchants in Theylen) and influential (bureaucrats in Azir). This makes almost everyone else little better than slaves. Offering them something better will likely lead to revolution, as it did in pretty much every human society on Earth. Roshar's tech level is nowhere near 18th century, someone else already addressed this in a post above. Fabrial tech is all well and good, but it does basically nothing for the common people. Offer people clean water, reliable food and the comfort of electricity, and they will be appreciative. Do Highstorms even reach the tops of the Horneater peaks? Even if they did, the mountains are volcanoes with calderas, which would provide natural shelter. The only people venturing into the storms should be armed with Honorblades. I could see the storms being a problem if Scadrial were trying to invade Roshar with an army, but that isn't at all what I suggested. I didn't ignore anything. If anything, you ignored the fact that I was outlining a potential plan of attack, not writing SA5 and Era3. It would be a relatively small group of metalborn, certainly less than 1000 as I said above. And how do Spren know guns are weapons? For all we know the Spren would be curious about the outsiders and offer them a ride to the perpendicularity. None of those things are are what you suggested they ask for, and most of them aren't useful. I think she was offering the actual Nightblood. I assume she had it before Nale did.

So what if the Soren notice them? “Hey there’s a group of people doing people things at Cultivation’s perpendicularity, weird.”. Regardless of what age they’re in, it’s quite far behind the late Industrial Age. They could ask the Nightwatcher for many things, but who knows what they would actually get. This also feels pretty close to involving a Shard. The only abilities we have seen from the Nightwatcher actually came from Cultivation as far as I remember.

The TLDR of your reply.

I see two scenarios, Roshar invades Scadrial. Or, Scadrial invades Roshar. Rosharan magic cannot be taken off world so far as we have seen, even if it is theoretically possible. This leaves Roshar, which is slightly past the bronze age, invading a world where they have invented the radio and artillery, without magic. They would face problems at every level of warfare. Their supply lines would be a disaster because they normally depend on soulcasters for food. Their communications would be a mess because they depend on fabrials which presumably cannot be taken off of Roshar at this time due to the spren inside of them. Their weapons would be hopelessly, comically, overmatched (imagine how many spearman Wax could kill by himself, using just his guns). Their only advantage "might" be that there are presumably more people living on Roshar given Scadrial's recent apocalypse, and they could utilize human wave tactics. There's also the fact that Scadrial just experienced an attack from another world, and has shown the ability to repel that attack before it began. Roshar would need to successfully establish a perpendicularity to even attempt an attack at this point. I'll add as an addendum that it may be possible for the Fused to use their abilities while on Scadrial, which would certainly make the fight a little more fair. I think it would still be impossible for Roshar to win, but the Fused could make life on Scadrial a nightmare. You'd have the equivalent of a terrorist group with superpowers running around causing all kinds of mayhem. Scadrian magic works everywhere, and uses easy to find resources as fuel. I've already detailed how they outclass Roshar technologically so I wont address that again. Their best bet would likely be to seize Cultivations perpendicularity and hold it as a beach head. Assuming Roshar didn't know the attack was coming the fight would probably be pretty easy, as the horneaters don't have any shards. The best move from there would probably be to send a small group to attack the Shin and steal the seven Honorblades that are left. Assuming that Hemalurgy is on the table, Scadrial could be fielding several types of twinborn, all enhanced with extra powers. Pairing your seven best metalborn with an Honorblade suited to their powerset would give Scadrial a very strong strike force that could even stand against Radiants in a Highstorm or the Fused. The Fused would present a big problem because they can be reborn, but I think Scadrial might be able to counter this by killing them with Hemalurgy. After Scadrial has established it's base of operations and acquired the Honorblades, their best bet would be subterfuge, assassination and propaganda. Killing off major leaders and Radiants would weaken Roshar's ability to strike against them, and if Scadrial can manage to kill Ishar, Nale or Taln they would also gain another Honor blade from each. Infiltrating the population and filling their heads with ideas about liberty and democracy would probably also go a long way. Most of Roshar lives under a feudal system where the common folk are little better than slaves. If you offer these people the chance at guaranteed freedoms and government through consent, you would likely see all of Roshar's nations crumble from the inside. Add to this the promise of modern amenities like electricity, mass transit and stable food/water supply and we are talking about cultural revolution that leaves Roshar unrecognizable. Scadrial could probably win without ever fighting a large scale battle. Obviously that's a very specific attack plan, but I'm operating under the assumption that the attacking side has done their homework. Overall, I'd say Scadrial has a much better chance, and a much clearer path. edit: Just reading through the whole thread now and it seems to me that there are two types of people here. People who desperately want Roshar to win, and people that see the massive glaring problems Roshar would be facing. Just my two cents. edit edit: Realized I made a mistake, the Shin only have six blades. Moash obviously has Jezrien's. I think we can all agree that Scadrial's death squad should pay Moash a visit.

He died. In all seriousness though, he's probably having issues with his powers because of how he's connected to his body. I suspect that Spook made the BoM and medallions that the southerners use with instruction from Kelsier.

This made me lol. Thank you.

That explains why I didn't remember, I was going off the assumption that a Cognitive shadow wasn't a soul. I thought they were more like a reflection or memory of a person that had been filled with Investiture. I guess a bigger question to ask would be "what is a soul in the Cosmere?", but that's off topic.

I don't recall where we see this happen, could you remind me?

I suppose that could be the case. I assumed that, since spren can be captured in gemstones, they were kinetic while in the physical realm.

Couldn't the Mistborn use bendalloy, bronze and chromium to kill the Radiant's spren as soon as the fight starts?

Did I miss a book? Who is Virtuousity?

Rashek loses because he's an incompetent imbecile. If anyone else was in charge, Scadrial wins.