Jorville

Didn't find any major stuff to have issue with. These might be outside of the concern of the audience but this is what I noted.

-Why does N have to do something if guards are right there. It seems like all the group would have to do would be to walk up to the guards and people would start asking why W has a gun trained on people

-this might be because I haven’t read the previous stuff but what is the reason N has such confidence in the Et?

-on page two, paragraph that begins with “there was one…” It is kind of jumpy. You start with an M woman but never describe her. Then jump to a K, then back to the Ms. For me it was a little confusing

-So, W walks up holding a gun that no one sees? Where is the E’s security on this? I think its safe to say he is surrounded by incompetence.

-No one searches W when the gun is announced, or restrains him even for a moment? Serious security issues here.

-Kind of odd for the mayor to be willing giver her enemies so much for the not being outed. Seems like a short-sighted deal, as they would then gain power from all the trade going through them and be able to oust her anyway.

-I feel like the last conversation about the sea should be the last thing mentioned. A clear message about an open future adventure.

Overall I thought the wrap up was pretty good. The story ended well with a good hint at the next adventure that awaits out there.

2 hours ago, kais said:

Generally, I wasn't engaged with this until about the last two chapters, which is where I think your story really begins. Some notes below. I'm still put-off by the dark-skinned savage and the white default thing you've got going on, but both are pretty easy fixes if you go into the early chapters and do things like note skin tones for everyone, and put in a few more people of color in day-to-day things. 

- 'sun bronzed cheeks' okay, but what color skin does the ambassador have? Watch the white default. I note that at the end of page two, when you describe him, you only describe his build and hair, not his skin tone

- page seven: no skin tone note on the father, either, which, again, serves to further the 'otherness' of our protagonist, the violent, spear-wielding, tropical woman with the darker skin

Hmm, I must say I am a little caught off guard by all the concern over skin tone. I haven't given it much thought myself. I have always imagined M with more of a Greek look to her. Which I now find somewhat amusing since there is an 'amazon' thing going on with her. Now, the Plains people are generally white. To the south are a more Arabic looking people(e.g. the merchant with the accent in the market). I don't have built into this world some magical rapid transit, so cross cultural exchange would be difficult at best and the world cultures are still pretty insular. To my reasoning this world wouldn't have a lot of societies with the genetic diversity that would provide for such variance in skin tone. While the city might have a little more, being a major trade city, I have a hard time reasoning out how having a great genetic diversity would exist. Perhaps what I need to do is be slightly more descriptive of their differences, but I want to make sure that it is the cultural differences here causing conflict. I don't want to draw attention to unimportant things such as skin tone.

2 hours ago, kais said:

- generally, descriptions of the weather aren't strong enough for chapter openers

Yeah, I have noticed this actually. I think when I start writing that might be the first thing I think of before moving on in my mind to other things that a bit more relevant. I will keep that in mind

2 hours ago, kais said:

- she's being 'struck' by a lot of things in these opening paragraphs. Watch the redundancy

Yeah that happens, normally @QuirkyGrandpa shreds me for that but I don't think she actually went over this scene so must have missed that.

2 hours ago, kais said:

- M is 14???

In short, no. No Martin stuff going on here. I did actually stop at that and wonder if I should change the wording before I submitted but I decided not to. M hadn't had experience with other cultures until her father came and she got to go with him for the first time when she was 14. This was the first time she experienced another culture. she has been visiting for lengths of time for the past 4-5 years. so she is the 18-19 age range. I will be working on making that more clear.

3 hours ago, kais said:

- A basically invited himself to this ball, and M is okay with that? Being brought up in a strong matriarchy, I'd think she'd at least be offended he assumed. Same deal with the curtesy. Would a (young) woman from a matriarchy curtsey to man she barely knew, who wasn't of equal rank?

uh, this one is a difficult one. I might want to put in some more dialogue here to bring that out. I think she would obviously a little irritated but she is trying to fit into a different culture so she doesn't want to fly off the handle at thing like this. I do need to work on this section her reaction doesn't really sit well. and yeah, not really sure what I was thinking when i put the curtsy in there it does read really out of place.

3 hours ago, kais said:

- page three, paragraph that starts with 'the man looked...' This paragraph confused me a lot. I think it needs to be crisper. 'The warrior from the XXX' is also a hard tag to use when we barely know M. Suggest just sticking with her name for now

Yes I re read that it is off. I need to rework that one.

Another one for @QuirkyGrandpa, I so scared of her beatings, umm, I mean, I appreciate her critiquing so much that I try very hard not to use the name all the time. I will take a look at this though and see if I can tone it down.

3 hours ago, kais said:

- I think I need more blocking on this carriage incident, because right now, M just seems like she has a really short fuse but also is easily subdued

I will work on this. Not really what I was going for. M's culture is pretty authoritarian so people who breech the normal protocols are dealt with swiftly and harshly. She knows that doesn't work here so she kinda has to come reign herself in. I obviously need to work on that  coming across.

3 hours ago, kais said:

- page four: the dress has a rough texture?? Isn't she a noble of some sort? Wouldn't she want soft fabrics? Or wait, is it the wrapping paper that is rough?

Wrapping paper is rough. I will make that a little more clear.

3 hours ago, kais said:

- page five: marble isn't a proper noun

Agreed, will fix that.

3 hours ago, kais said:

- page seven: I feel like this page, here, is where the narrative actually starts. The concept of leaving one family for another, of being mixed race, is a strong one, and serves as a good hook for a book. You might consider cutting the previous chapters (in late, out early, as it were) and really starting the book here, where M comes to visit her father and he suggests she try living in his world for a while. That, I think, would be a very engaging book, especially if you could keep the 'otherness' at bay in terms of skin tone

hmm, I will consider this. I started on a new intro that I think might do this a little better. 

Thanks again @kais for the feedback. I really appreciate it, I know this story will be better because of it.

Once again, it's pretty raw. Hopefully  it's a little easier to read this time. I look forward to your critiques.

The previous two scenes involved M and her search for the tailor shop that her father directed her to. In the tailor shop the dressmaker got her the perfect dress for the ball her father was putting on for her. She also met Ambassador A, after an awkward initial meeting they resolved to make further conversation outside of the shop after M was finished with the dressmaker.

-          Got a good sense of character. His voice really pops out.

-          Neighbor has a wooden fence, but J goes to the door? Perhaps you mean gate?

-          Maybe make the word clout unique. Slightly confusing, you may want to capitalize it, or make it stand out in some way if they use that word for their magic.I do like the word clout for it though, I think it resonates well.

-          'Next door’s yard' just sounds kind of weird to me.

-          “What you seeking” the diction sounds odd to me. I feel like it would be better to put in ‘are’ or make the ‘you’ a ‘ya’

-          Yeah, the rest of the butcher’s dialogue seems at odds with his first statement.

-          His face hits cobbles? I though he was in the butcher’s shop. Maybe the butcher’s floor is cobbles, but I didn’t get that clearly. Also, would they be dusty in the butcher’s shop, wouldn’t they be gory?

Overall a really great sense of J’s character, definitely comes across as flippant and snarky.

I did think it was odd when he is talking to the butcher and then all of the sudden police are there. He was worried about some goons and then he gets arrested. Might want to work in something about how he always has to be cautious about the bluecoats or something before he gets in.

Lastly, how can you criticize my grammar and spelling when you put a u in favor and neighbor? 

Hey guys, another question here. Since this is the first time I have had major critiques I was wondering how you guys compile and then implement the comments that you feel need to be implemented.

11 hours ago, Robinski said:

 

• I’m not sure how much one permits the sun to fall on them, as opposed to it doing whatever the heck it likes. I like the picture you’re building, which will draw me on, but the grammar is distracting me fairly significantly, so far. Same vein: I think ‘Her lithe figure… is a new sentence.
• “The morning was bright, especially as the sunlight” – feels a bit repetitive of the first line.
• “Mer…” – I like the name; how it rolls off the tongue.
• I’ve get a nagging feeling that tense might be about to wander, but maybe it’s only “slide” where I think it should be “slid”.
• Foot of Page 1, typo, “The In the jungle…”
• “Calling out their wears wares…” – typo. Also, returning to the phrase felt like uncomfortable repetition to me, so soon after the first instance.
• Typo “Other girls their there”
• I think maybe ‘Servant’ singular, would scan better.
• Okay, there are several drafting and grammar issues that are tripping me up, but those are easily enough fixed, so I'm going to stop mentioning them now.
• “quickly” three times in quick succession at the foot of Page 7. Sorry, I know I said I wasn’t going to comment on drafting, but… More importantly, I do enjoy the uncomfortable dynamic in the dress shop. Clarity is lacking somewhat because of the roughness.
• I think Y & Sons is the name of the shop, so ‘Sons’ should get a capital ‘S’. Also, I noted one or two instances of ‘lady Suchandsuch’, which may be just typos, but should be ‘Lady Suchandsuch’, of course, as it’s her fully entitled name.
• Is M the “the young Alt woman”? If so, that line is out of her PoV.
• I’m absolutely itching to do Line-by-Line comments, but I’m resisting!
• “M’s eyes lighted lit up…”

The phrasing, grammar etc. needs some ‘wordsmithing’. Apart from the typos, there passages that were unclear, and a certain amount of repetition in some of the language. That’s what editing is for, after all, and I’m remembering now that you’ve just typed this up from paper (I think?), which I hate doing!! So, I totally sympathise.

Promising, but some of the grammar and phrasing etc. really needs an overhaul through an edit, imo.

Yeah I did say it was pretty raw so I appreciate all the feedback on it. I will start addressing a lot of this when I sit down with all these critiques. @QuirkyGrandpa really hates repetition so I try to change up the terms I use a lot. I will take a look at this because I don't want to break POV and make it feel awkward.

11 hours ago, Robinski said:

 

• Yep, so, a market with vendors shouting their wares is a massive fantasy cliché. I'm not saying don’t have a market, but everyone has a market, it needs to be different. Maybe the vendors all use sign language, I don’t know, something. After my initial reaction, I do like how you have ‘personalised’ two of the vendors. I think that’s well done: I feel something for them, at least, and now I can hear the market (pots banging).
• The stooped old dressmaker wringing his hands is veering towards cliché. Again, I'm not saying don’t do it, but if you're going there, you need to make it stand out from all the other stooped, hand-wringing craftsmen.

I will take another look at this. There is a later scene where the market not in session. There is a big statue and fountains and what not. This is a merchant city that is really free market oriented so there aren't a lot of legal restrictions but maybe I can put in some traditions or something. I will need some filler for the scene if I write a new beginning.

11 hours ago, Robinski said:

• I’m four pages in here and—mechanical issues aside—while I’m not bowled over, I am interested and engaged. I do have a fairly significant question in my head as I learn more about M’s situation, though, which is; How did she/her family get here, if she loves the jungle so much, and why are they trying to fit in anyway? I can surmise that it’s a diplomatic mission, as that is very much the feel of the set up, but I would like that confirmed much earlier on, so I can stop thinking about it.
• You gave us the m/c’s name before, but I don’t remember ‘Del’ being a part of it. Since ‘Del’ isn’t really explained here, you could drop it altogether. ‘Savage’ would be enough in this instance, to convey to me who was being referred to.
• “people seemed to pay attention more to her here than they did back home” – really? But didn’t you say she was the queen’s daughter? I find this hard to believe. Even though her magical abilities have not developed, she’s still the chieftain’s daughter.

Anyway, enough of that, I think you have an interesting culture clash setup here, and the premise that women are dominant in M’s tribe just adds to that nicely. I would like to see more of how their tribe works, but I suppose that may not be where the story is going, still, hoping to see that expectation in M and how it plays in the city.

Ok so not the first comment on M's origin. M is a child of two worlds. He mother is from and still lives in what she considers her home. Her father is a native of this city and lives there now. I think the next scene goes into it in better detail but it really seems like this is tripping people so I will try to make it a bit more clear when I work on this again. let me know if it works out in later reads.

11 hours ago, Robinski said:

 

• Hmm, nope, I’m struggling with this. I thought the man was a tailor, but he’s just some random stranger plucking a thread from her dress? I think that is still crossing the line. It’s not his place to do that. Also, his introduction here seems contrived. My instinct is screaming that this is the lover interest. The signs seem very clear.
• To me, his chat-up line is disappointingly bland and by-the-book. Maybe he’s a bad guy. I can hope!

The introduction of the male character bothered me, because it all felt rather bland. There was good tension in the start, but then M was insufficiently outraged, I thought, but what surely was still a very forward and inappropriate gesture, I think.

hmm,  I will take a look at this. Her initial reaction would be physical discipline but she is trying to be more measured and, do as the Romans do, so to speak. I will try to look at the dialogue to see if I can present more outrage without having her fly off the handle.

11 hours ago, Robinski said:

 

• On Page 10, the section about her abilities feels rather like a repetition of what we know already, rather than an expansion on that idea. I think you might consider giving more detail here, going a bit deeper.
• “deep green colour” – for the description of a fashion item, I would expect more specifics about the colour. For one thing, the colour is green, so I think this phrase is ‘off’, and rather could talk about a shade or tone of green.
• “Her silver eyes…” – wait, what?! This is a kind of fundamental detail to only be getting on Page 12. It completely changes my image of the character.

I don't have the scene in easy reach right now but I will look at page 10 again and see what I can do. 

I will consult with @QuirkyGrandpa on the color stuff. As an artist she really has a grasp on that sort of thing.

It might be irrelevant at this point because I will be writing a different beginning but I do see the point. I don't really know if it could have been easily worked in before that point. Like I said though, might be irrelevant.

Thanks a ton for your feedback @Robinski. I have been so starved for input on this story for so long that it's a relief to have all of you guys look at it.

29 minutes ago, QuirkyGrandpa said:

My main inspiration is you babe .

Beating you I mean, at publishing a book first <3.

Yeah you have to finish a story first, and I am ahead of you there. It may have a crappy beginning, middle and end but at least there.

@QuirkyGrandpa you have great ideas. the more you do it the easier it gets so just keep swimming.

5 hours ago, AviatrixAway said:

I agree with some earlier notes that it might be interesting to start out the story at the ball. This would give us in the moment knowledge of how she's treated, how she acts, etc., rather than reminiscences of same. I also wonder (barring the prejudicial discourse we were privy to outside the dressmaker's shop), if her treatment at the ball was as bad as she thought it was, largely because she comes across as kind of arrogant and a little fragile. If she's created an arrogant demeanor as a reaction to constant criticism, and her internal dialogue is something different, then some mention of that might be beneficial 

Yeah, it seem the general consensus is that I need to start earlier. Like I said before I have some good ideas for that already and will start on them soon.

5 hours ago, AviatrixAway said:

Another aspect that stuck out for me is that she physically attacked her father. I know that she has skill as a warrior and I know that her society is female dominated, but this seems like a pretty intense reaction toward someone who was trying to comfort her.

Yeah, @QuirkyGrandpa has been saying that about that part for a while, that's why it was highlighted in red. probably just going to eliminate that.

5 hours ago, AviatrixAway said:

Finally, I do find her skin tone and hair color paired with the word "savage" problematic. I know that this is how other people see her, and she is far from it, but the connotations are still there.

I don't think putting it any other way is going to come across the way I want it to. Not all, but some people view her as a savage because she is from somewhere so different. There would be a similar group if it were set in her homeland.

31 minutes ago, kais said:

Also agree. We need that hook! Maybe starting off at the ball where she gets made fun of?

Yeah, I am definitely looking at this. I am looking at what I want to add to this to make a better intro for it.

1 hour ago, kais said:

- page one: the cold open lacks a hook, and comes off a little 'male-gaze,' for being a female POV. Will return to this thought once I've read down through, but I think likely you're coming in too early to the narrative. Will revisit. As another note 'tan' doesn't tell me much about the actual color of her skin

Could you clarify what you mean by 'male gaze'? Also maybe I haven't looked into the technical side of things but don't really know what too early to the narrative means. Are you saying that I should start the story later? I don't know how that works with writing a new or significantly changing the beginning.

1 hour ago, kais said:

- She had come home from... this sentence really confused me and I had to read it three times. I think it might need to be rearranged or get a bit of punctuation. 

- there is for places, their is for people

 -page nine: there are a number of typos and awkward sentences thus far. I suggest reading the narrative out loud to yourself, to help you catch them

Yeah, I do need to read through for awkward sentences and typos like that. I should try to work on not doing that in the first place more though, but it helps to annoy @QuirkyGrandpawhen I force her to read my work

1 hour ago, kais said:

- page two: I'll caution on the 'dark' complexion (black hair, tan skin that may or may not be white), and using the term 'savage.' Especially if the other characters are fair

- page four: the dark haired savage is from the jungle??  That's.... problematic

So I don't get into the M's home culture much, but I am trying to show how some people here would view her own civilization. M doesn't think of herself as a savage, I was going for trying to show that she loves both cultures for different reasons. I'll try to make the cultural differences more obvious.

1 hour ago, kais said:

- page four: I feel kind of cheated that we're being told about this event instead of actually experiencing it. It's also not a particularly dynamic way to start a book

This is a common theme with the beginning I am definitely going to look at this and add the actual event or maybe immediate aftermath.

Thanks for your help I really appreciate it. All of this is really helping me get this moving along.

3 hours ago, QuirkyGrandpa said:

If that happens before I keel over from excessive age I'll be super pleased. 

I know you feel old but you only just turned 30, you don't need to talk about dying before something happens yet.

On 4/14/2018 at 0:39 AM, Alicia Whiteheart said:

Ebooks.  I despise them with every everything I have in me.  if I wanted to read a story on a screen, I would play a video game from the 90's with no voice acting.

 

I fear the day that books shift full time to ebook format and paper media disapears forever.  There have been several books that have looked interesting at amazon, only to learn that there is no paper media for them.   No thanks.

While I don't despise ebooks(as a submariner they are pretty much the best friend of someone who likes to read) I do prefer a paper book. I do not think that books will every truly go away. They might become a niche market in the future but I do not think they will disappear forever. Even if most paper publishers disappear there will still be enough of a market for them for a enthusiast to get printed book from somewhere.

Grand Admiral Thrawn for books

Bane from the Dark Knight for movies

Frank Griffin from Godless for TV

I like Villians with conviction and a sense of purpose who are in relentless pursuit of their goals.

Going to update my statement, @Robinski, you are waaaaaaaaaaaaaay ahead of me.

was that enough a's, or should I have put up a few more?

6 hours ago, Mandamon said:

Says the guy who just submitted his first work in December... ;-)

Hey, that means @Robinski is farther along then I am, so I'm not judging.

I would like to submit as well if there is room.

@Argent, if I have learned anything from @QuirkyGrandpa, it's that whining work in most situations.

15 minutes ago, Kidpen said:

Cause her username is great  

Mine's originality is only surpassed by its mediocrity.

12 minutes ago, Droughtbringer said:

Because she does really cool art

Yes she does. @Argent is right @QuirkyGrandpa needs to be a Sanderfan so we can get some awesome fanart from her.

Why does everyone love my wife more then me? I mean I can't really blame them because I do too.

18 minutes ago, QuirkyGrandpa said:

Yeah, but I'm worried Fluttershy will feel betrayed by my lack of representation. Fluttershy is the best pony and I refuse to believe otherwise. Should probably do a redraw sometime..

No, the best is obviously Applejack. I mean, I don't have a favorite pony.

2 minutes ago, QuirkyGrandpa said:

Ghostbloods sound cool. I had to look it up ;). Guess I might be getting a tattoo on my arm later. Three Diamonds huh. People won't be able to tell if I'm a Sanderson fan or really like Rarity from My Little Pony . 

Hear that Jorville? I'm getting a tattoo babe!

Why did I encourage you to get in these forums again?

12 minutes ago, QuirkyGrandpa said:

Sweet! I'll keep that in mind. I'm finishing up another book quick but should be started on one before the end of the week. I go through books like I'm breathing air.

Elantris is on the right bookshelf, top shelf slightly left of center. Not that I am obsess over that or anything. Also you read the first two Mistborn books about 5-6 years ago. You said they were BORING! boring!?!?!? unbelieveable, ok I'm calm now.

Also my favorite Sanderson story is emperor's Soul. center bookshelf, top again, slightly left of center. Arcanum Unbounded is the book name.

18 minutes ago, Robinski said:

Yeah, its as bad as it sounds. There is a saying that those of us in the submarine nuclear community have: Submarines once, period.

There were a few references here where I would have been better served having read all the previous stuff, but it wasn't a major issue.

Again I felt that the city description wasn't clear. I don't get a sense of a contiguous city, only isolated pockets where the events of the plot take place. I don't know If that's a wasted comment since I commented on this before but thought I would mention it.

Another thing I saw was that there wasn't a noticeable reactionary movement to this gigantic change that this culture is about to undergo. It may be that it just the way they are but I would think that a lot of people would be afraid or against this portal. Additionally I feel like there isn't a ton of excitement about the portal from some of the Gs either. All and all It seems like the a just, "oh a life changing alteration to our world and we will have contact to a whole new civilization that we haven't seen ever before? that's cool."

In regard to the coup. I fail to see how it would logically have any lasting effect. These seem to be relatively advance cultures where rule of law is an important thing. If W forced everyone to do everything at gunpoint then left witnesses around they could all use the legal system to null any contract that he ensured was signed under duress. I would think that W would need more leverage then the gun for him to get his wish, forcing the others to remain silent. 

On page 10, A says life vice live. Nothing in A's previous diction leads me to think that life is the intended word choice there. Unless I am missing something specific.

N's reaction to W's betrayal seems kinda odd. Obvious anger and frustration is displayed initially but I would expect that to color the tone for the rest of the scene from a first person narrative and that doesn't really come across. I didn't really receive a feel for a the dejected acceptance tone for everything after.

@Robinski, So I went to Helensburgh because that is essentially where the boat pulled in. We went there 7 times so we spent a lot of time hanging out in Glasgow. I did make the trip to Edinburgh twice, did the touristy things. We ported in Portsmouth twice, one of those visits I did get the chance to overnight in London, again did some touristy things. I really would have loved to see more but operational schedule wouldn't allow for it. I enjoyed the chance to see those places but it's not worth the 100 hour plus work weeks to go back to a submarine, lol.