Mage of Lirigon

I like the idea very much. Kadash would be an excellent pick for a Stoneward. I had thought before that he and maybe some others of Dalinar's ardents would resume taking care of Taln, so that seems like a good springboard. It also brings up a question : the Stoneward spren seemed to like humans in Oathbringer, so I wonder if they're actively recruiting Radiants?

Assuming that is Brandon, he does say that while Dalinar's word count going forward might not be as much as it was in Oathbringer, he'll still have some great scenes, so as a Dalinar fan, it doesn't sound like you anything to worry about.

Dalinar is not an island unto himself. As a highprince, the decisions he made can affect thousands, maybe even millions of people. He is not in a position to only accept advice when asked for, especially on decisions like allying with Sadeas. As one of the few persons who are in a position to give Dalinar unsolicited advice, it is his responsibility to tell Dalinar these things. So because Dalinar is the Blackthorn, he's too high and mighty to take advice, no matter how sensible it is? And Adolin's objection is sensible. As I mentioned earlier, Dalinar is not a child who has the luxury of closing his ears to anything he doesn't like. He has a duty to listen to advice, especially from someone he supposedly felt comfortable enough with to abdicate to. Allowing his father to make what he views as a mistake without any comment isn't showing respect. Just the opposite, in fact. If you saw your parent getting scammed by a known scammer, it's not respect to just let him do whatever he wants, especially when there are thousands of people who live and die based on your parent's decision. The very passages you quoted show the opposite. He brings up a very sensible concern about putting themselves in a position to allow Sadeas to undermine them completely, which actually did happen, mind you. Pointing out a potential tactical error is being responsible. In Alethi society, perception is power. By allowing his reputation to decline, Dalinar was putting not only himself and his family in danger, but all his soldiers and their families as well. That's something Dalinar was ignoring, and it's salient of Adolin to bring it up. He said that Dalinar is losing his wits due to age and grief, not that he was stupid. No matter how intelligent a person is, this can still happen to them. It's responsible of Adolin to point this out. It's exactly because Adolin is Dalinar's son that he has a responsibility to speak facts to him when others can't or won't. That isn't arrogance. Pretty sure Renarin just didn't really have anything to say. This is a pretty faulty comparison. Dalinar isn't indulging in a harmless hobby that only has repercussions for him. The decisions Dalinar makes can get people killed, which is exactly why he needs to be willing to at least listen to advice, even if it's unsolicited.

The dissonance you're seeing is because of Adolin's insecurity about being his father's son. It informs a lot of his behaviour and actions. Of course, you're free to dislike Adolin regardless.

You forgot the rest of the quote. As you can see it has less to do with him wanting to enjoy himself and more with him realizing that he is not the man his father thinks he is and how he thinks that means he's not suited for this job. Should he have taken the job regardless? Perhaps, but then again Alethkar has already had a king who felt he wasn't good enough and look what happened there. Adolin's intention was to get Dalinar to stop being so reckless with the visions, not for him to abdicate. If I tell someone they have a drinking problem that doesn't mean I think they should quit their job, it means I think they should get some help. Should Adolin have thought more about how Dalinar would have reacted? Sure he himself says the same thing, but trying to reconcile the misunderstanding is not the same thing as being irresponsible. Being a good person is a good thing in your personal relationships not so much for politics. You're basically making an appeal to amorality here. That there are no bad actions and no bad people, because there are a multitude of opinions on how to view things. You're free to have your own opinion on people's actions but rather than a subjective viewpoint I choose to base things on a person's actions. Sadeas chose to betray not only thousands of people but his own country as well. You can have your own opinions on his reasoning for his actions, of course. But while context can aid in understanding the morality of an action it cannot change its nature. Sadeas is crem. You are free to view him however you like though.

I agree, the wording wasn't the best. He was trying to be mature, respect her feelings and step aside but he really could have put it better. So demonstrating his love means that he should get upset at her about what she's feeling? It's more like he doesn't love himself. Adolin has always believed himself to be inferior to his father and the fact that Shallan is a Radiant caused him to transfer those feelings to her and Kaladin, in a way.

Well put. Considering the legal situation House Sadeas was going to end up in, spending page space debating on legal consequences for Adolin would be a waste of time. I do think we'll see peronal consequences for Adolin as well. The seeds were already sprouting at the end of Oathbringer. Dalinar's idyllic, and frankly wildly unhealthy for the both of them, view of Adolin has been shattered, and despite his move towards independence at the end, Adolin still thinks of his father as half a god, and it's never a nice feeling when your god is disappointed in you.

We've seen Adolin do duties he doesn't like and frankly didn't even want to do before. He didn't avoid becoming king just to play around. There's a reason Brandon wrote that conversation with Azure: duty is not, or shouldn't be as simple as doing what is commanded of you. It's about considering, really considering what would be the best way to dispatch said duty. Dalinar does what he does because frankly, no one else can, for various reasons. Letting someone better suited pick up your responsibilities can be for the best sometime. Absolutely brilliant, as usual. If I had a million upvotes, I'd give them to you. We know little to nothing of his relationships with them, and what we do know, he certainly seems to be putting more of an effort in. As a son and heir, it absolutely is his repsonsibility to tell Dalinar if he thinks he's going mad. Being a good person and a good king are two totally different things. Some might even say they're mutually exclusive. Alethkar, and the rest of the world that depends on the alliance to defend them, needs extraordinary leadership right now. Sadeas is crem because of his own actions, not what I think.

You need variety. Chicken curry wouldn't taste half so good, without a little rice as a side dish. Sadeas died because he was crem. Adolin lost control of himself for sure, but let's not pretend Sadeas was an innocent bystander. And frankly, Sadeas deserves no sorrow from Adolin or anyone that was at the Tower the day he betrayed them, none at all. That was Thrill. When it was gone, he was disgusted by the killing. He was scared, yes. Scared because he thought he wasn't equal to the task, and he was right. Being afraid is not always a cause for shame and redoubling of efforts. Sometimes, it's cause for stopping, thinking, and choosing something different. He does, though. It's not as dramatic as i is with Dalinar, but he does in his own small way. That doesn't make his efforts any less worthy. That's not why he did it.

Quite true. I've also thought shipping to have a great deal to do with it as well. Also true. I think people mistake the difference between Adolin's more grounded narrative and the often largerthan life tales of Adolin, Shallan and Dalinar as simplicity. Do we even know enough about his previous courtships to gauge the difference in effort, if any, he puts in his courtship with Shallan? His conversations with others certainly make it sound like he tried harder. He took responsibility in the first book, when he felt the need to point out his father's mistakes, even though it hurt him to do it. Dalinar has been living vicariously through Adolin since the day he was born, so he might have needed it yes, the way he needed to drink to drown out Evi's tears. But considering the state Alethkar and the world is in, do you really think they needed Adolin as king of Alethkar? That he would have been the best choice? Part of responsibility is knowing when not to take up burdens, because it's not just your life you're carrying. I've never gotten this idea that Radiancy is a payment you get for suffering enough. Radiancy is something you get for choosing to be better, when you don't have to be. Suffering is optional.

Adolin is not a fully formed character yet, and it's disingenuous to suggest that he hasn't changed when his whole arc in Oathbringer was about him making the first steps to growing and changing. It's not that Adolin doesn't want to take responsibility or do nothing, we've seen him be very dutiful, almost to a fault, before. Adolin's arc in Oathbringer was about him realizing that responsibility and duty are things you need to choose for yourself, not because you're trying to live up to an impossible and frankly non-existant ideal of someone, an ideal that was placed in your head because said someone was trying to live their lives vicariously through you and happened to be emotionally distant during your formative years.

If this was so, why do people keep bringing up Adolin's life being perfect when bashing his character? The threshold of how "broken" you need to be to be a Radiant is not as much as people think it is. Kaladin, Shallan and Dalinar are outliers, if they were the standard, there could never have been hundreds of Radiants. Speaking for me, while I like Kaladin and Shallan more than Adolin, in some ways I empathize more with Adolin. Feeling like I can't live up to people's expectations, or my parents' legacy, and wondering about what my place in the world is... These are all things I've felt. Frankly, I didn't do a good job of it sometimes. Adolin doesn't always either, but he's willing to acknowledge these issues about himself.

His Surges would be weaker than normal though? He did a little more than that. He kept an eye on him and tried to keep him out of his own head a bit. Small stuff, but still something. I do think Adolin's believing him about Amaram played a role as well, though not as big as Dalinar did, admittedly. This argument never makes any sense to me. Certainly Adolin has been born with great advantages, but his life has hardly been perfect. Plus, much of Adolin's arc has been about him coming to term with his privilege as well and trying to be a better person. It's not as dramatic as what Kaladin and Shallan have gone through, but that gives it a flavour all it's own. Kaladin would be willing, but his own hangups would prevent him from doing so. Never said he did. What I think is that he's willing to support her. I honestly don't think she is. But she chose to be in one. Perhaps it was a mistake, but that something she needs to work out on her own. ... That's really not helpful to Kaladin, though?

How is making him a watered down Radiant putting him on a special pedastal? Adolin is willing to make the effort to support her. Calling it Adolin's direct influence is a little much. Sure, Adolin was the catalyst, but looking at Shallan's character and her hangups with her Shardblade, Radiant was inevitable. Because Kaladin is really not in the right headspace for a relationship right now. They would just make each other's problems worse. There's also the small matter of him killing her beloved big brother. I feel the opposite about this. Sadeas was crem, and he died the way crem like him should die, alone and unremarked.

It's not about simply saying the words, it's about living up to a mindset. The thing is, this mindset can be radically different depending on you or your spren. Think of it like religion. Religions have different tenets, but they all require faith in them. An ideal is a standard you're supposed to live up to and aspire toward. That's exactly what the Ideals are about, it's just there's no universal external standard, it's about being your own best self. Subverting reader's expectation is a classic literary technique. I'm sorry you don't like it, but many of the best stories in history have used this technique. Plus, as I've mentioned above, the Ideals are not meaningless, they simply don't mean what readers think they mean, because of our prior understanding of the classic Western image of a knight's code. The point of the Ideals to to critique the assumption that you can become a good person simply by following external rules. Like Szeth said in OB, excellence is an individual quest. Whatever Ideals, opinions or goals you hold, murdering a harmless, starving child for them makes you a monster. You can easily have the best of intentions and still be a a monster. Nale is a monster, even he would agree. You can be a glorious Knight Radiant, and a monster at the same time. The ends do not justify the means, especially when said means are betraying the trust people put in you and feeling nothing about it after the fact.

The First Ideal is a starting point on the path to being Radiant. It's about having a certain mindset, that mindset can be radically different, based on a person and spren's mentality and how they view that mindset, but what is important is that you and your spren believe in and live it.

It's not just being romantic. We've seen Maya defend Adolin before. Yeah! I can't tell the number of times I've wanted my computer or phone to do things faster. I find it impossible to believe that no one has wanted their Shardblade to do the same.

It would have been smarter to say nothing at all and simply fish for information rather than tip her hand. That tells me that she's not very gung ho about hunter Vasher down at least.

We know Lirin spent some time in Kharbranth, which sounds like a very tolerant place, he could have picked up some ideas there.

I don't think Adolin will become a Radiant because he's a good fighter. If he does become one, it'll be because of his other qualities. But that's from an in-universe perspective. From an out-of-universe one, it makes sense for Adolin to become a Radiant, especially an Edgedancer, since they're abilities lend themselves quite well to melee combat. I'm really hoping that this is the case. Because frankly, something is going to have to change with the spren to get them to stand up to Odium. I'd be fine if Maya gets revived and decides to go back home and advocate there to help them with the war instead of bonding with Adolin. I'm fairly sure that just applies to Oathbringer, since that was a major part of Adolin's arc there. I don't think you can take that mean it will be the entirety of Adolin's character for the rest of the books.

Considering what they're up against, they'll need all the Radiants they can find, and as one of the best fighters around, it makes sense for Adolin to be a Radiant too. We can always get more non-Radiant POV's.

Sebarial's carefree nature as opposed to Dalinar and Jasnah's is certainly a reason why they disdain him, but I think there's more to it than that. Sadeas could be quite irrelevant as well, and they didn't disdain him for that reason. Quirks not withstanding, both Dalinar and Jasnah are the very embodiment of everything Alethi society thinks a man and a woman are supposed to be, while Sebarial...isn't. I've always thought their disdain for him had some root in that. That's also why I hope he isn't secretly a Ghostblood, even though that would be a good twist. It's nice to have Sebarial around as a self-assured contrast to the usual Alethi temperament.

I was thinking the reason for saying Ash was born after the exodus was to have a somewhat plausible explanation for why she would not be made aware of certain things like the Dawnshards, like perhaps her father simply not telling her for some reason.

I'm sure she'll know some things, like information about Ashyn society, maybe even how the place got wrecked, but I have a feeling that the really important stuff, like the Dawnshards, will be things she doesn't know for some reasons. Can't have the heroes finding out too much too soon.

Perhaps the breaking of the oaths damaged the lesser spren that make up Shardplate to the point that they can't even scream anymore?