IronBars

Ok i will hold back from buying it so, as i have a copy of the old one.thanks

Voidlight is what we see the fused use id guess, maybe they only use one surge because are new to the bodies and after time will gain the ability to use more ?

Late to this topic as well. Windrunner 4th ideal in my opinion is going to be choosing what honour is, in OB kaladin questions whose defintion of honour decides if he is fullfilling his vows or not, and comments on how abstract it is, and how easily brought into the question what the honourable route is, So i think the 4th ideal will be a defining of it and thats why kaladin couldnt speak the ideal because he wants to protect everyone and cant distinguish between the different shades of honour so to speak, When the royal guard and the parshnen he had been friendly with clashed in kholinar kaladin was rendered useless by this conundrum or moral quadary which led to Elhokars death. so makes senss to me if the the ideal is a defintion of the path to take in those situations, as to the wording of said ideal im not really sure how that would go maybe something like: "i will protect those most in need regardless of my personal feelings" pretty similiar to the 3rd idea though, so maybe something more along the lines of: "I will sacrifice those i love for the greater good" Bit morbid but....

Thanks for the link in the previous post. About the comment above after WoR release brandon said we hadnt seen voidbinding, since the release of OB has he said if we have seen it ? Besides from renarin

Do you have a link for that chart ? Dont remember seeing that in tWoK

Sorry if this has been a topic before. Just wondering how different the current whitesand is in graphic novel form from the one brandon wrote years ago and would give people ?

Moash is going to have one of the more interesting character arcs in future books i think, so hopefully he gets more page time,

Ya thats true but stand to reason they also have 2 imo but ya might only have one I dont think the fused are linked to the unmade the way radiants are to hearlds, im open to be corrected on that though.

I disagree on this. From OB i assume there is 10 types of fused same as there are 10 heralds, (ones similiar powers to kaladin/lift so safe to assume they match up to other 8 heralds in my opinion) they share simularities with eachother ie there powers/surges So i think renarin is the fused equivalent of a truthwatcher if indeed glys is a corrupted truthwatcher spren. Which would make renarin a completly different thing to a truthwatcher

He could have progression from its odiumness like being able to see the future tho, couldnt he ? Does he ? "The red spren rising from renarin - like a snowflake made of crystal and light" OB page 1097 in my copy. "A spren rose from his back, bright red, shimmering like the heat of a mirage a crystalline structure like a snowflake though it dripped light upward toward tge ceiling" In her pouch she carried a sketch of the proper spren of the truthwatchers, and this was something different" page 1085 my copy of OB. Seems to me jasnah would no if what you said there was correct No. I dont get your point here, if a spren is 60% odium, 10% honour and 30% cultivation then yes its an odium spren. No because he isnt one, he would be more like a fused who has similiar abilities to a windrunner (dont know there name) then a windrunner

Yes so going by this glys is an odiun spren, right? And renarin cant be a truthwatcher correct ? Is it said anywhere what type of spren glys even actually used be ? People assigned renarin to truthwatcher based on TWoK/WoR, where renarin saw the future, but no indication truthwatchers could do that is there ? Its fine no worries i read them as seperate. Thats my issue, we dont know what kind of spren glys was before so and as i said above renarin was put in truthwatcher based on the assumption that order could see the future, because it fit the name and renarins abilities, we now know that isnt the case so rather then being complicated i think its simple - renarin isnt a truthwatcher in any sense (with the info we currently have) i dont see how anyone can argue that.

I disagree, it is the same thing, I believe its mentioned szeth had a spren come to him, thats how he new the knights radiant were returning, when he came out with this info he was ostracized, and contrary to what he new he followed what they said, based on there reputation for who they were there position in the society etc he denied what he new to be true.

Red investiture signifies one shard's investiture being "corrupted" by another's. Which is why Glys is red. Not that Odium isn't involved, in all the cases you cite. He is. It's just that Glys's color doesn't necessarily indicate that he's controlled by or loyal to Odium. That above quote made it seem you were implying glys wasnt corrupted by odium, unless i somehow misread it, but its how it seemed, and since cultivation is the other shard on roshar seemed you implied she corrupted say a spren from honour. Fair enough if i misread it

So is your argument that renarins spren isnt an odium spren that he is infact lets say a cultivation spren ? Every other red spren in SA seems to be odiums so that is a stretch imo but maybe your right, just has powers associated with odium by chance i guess

Kaladin didnt no who dalinar really was at the time, im guessing szeth doesnt either, if kaladin/szeth see things the same after the revelations about who/what dalinar was moving forward i find that to be not believable. Szeth swearing an oath to dalinar going by reputation doesnt make sense though because he followed the words of the stone shanans or whatever they were called based upon there reputation in there society as well, so its to siniliar to way he got burned by to make senss imo. Your points about taravangian are fair. I just think doesnt make sense for him as a man not to question it, but folowing the point vissy made i agree with them and hes cultivations pawn and thats why doesnt question it. Destroy roshar why ? Because they were the voidbringers No there not, and they look contradictory but there not, To take Shallan for example she made no improvement she actually got worse, so expecting her to make an improvement after WoR is very reasonable her being worse is not. In 99% of Oathbringer Shallan is the same as in WoR, and to a certain degree TWoK, her character has not developed at all to take the first paragraph, after shallan swore the 4th ideal of her radiant order it would be understandable for her to improve from the state she was in, ie identity crisis, hiding from her past, instead she got worse and hid from it more had a bigger identity crisis etc, so that got worse, but its the same issues shes had since WoR and TWoK, so its the same overall, so shes the same person with the same frailties (if can call them that) and while those frailties get stronger (worse) in OB, she is actually the same because the fraities are the same not sure if that will make sense to you or if the wording makes sense its clear in my head at least haha

Only noticed your name now haha sorry, but yes iv read all the malazan books, including the prequels, malazan is by far my favourite series, much prefer it to sandersons works being honest, just waiting for the 3rd book in the kharkanas trilogy and the 3rd book in the path to ascendancy trilogy Im not sure is that a serious question ? In 99% of oathbreaker shallan is the same as in WoR, and to a certain degree TWoK, her character has devoloped atal......

I just checked the book, doesnt say hes eyes are red, i mis remembered that, says his spren is red, ivory also says hes spren is of odium and hes powers are of odiun tho, red eyes as a trait of odium is a given though when all sadeas men etc have glowing red eyes as well as parshmen,

Its ok if you disagree, I wasnt saying kaldain needed to be the one saving the day in this book, but he was relegated to a side note or a support act in this book. An im sorry but no there was not alot of character progression in the book, and not alot of story progression either. If the book was 400 pages long id agree there was character progression but it was 1233 pages long. Dalinar as a man is a lie. The man we seen in TWoK and WoR, was not real so you cant really say that, and everyone being ok with who/what he was is makes no sense. Shallan regressed not progressed. As i said earlier, story be fine if was a 400 page novel, not a 1233 page one. There was more story/character progression in the first mistborn then Oathbreaker, in fact there was more story/character progression in the first mistborn trilogy then there has been in the 3 1000 page entries in the stormlight archive, If your happy with story progressing at a snails pace with filler worth 500 pages inbetween then thats fair enough. But understand that some people aren't. I didnt dislike the book, just found it wasnt good enough. And thanks its a character from the MBOTF.

Um....firstly humans were the voidbringers, whatever way you paint it, t Now about the mental health issue, what you say is true and also not true, it entirely depends on the person, some are naturally tougher mentally then others im sure you will agree to that ? You said: Expecting characters to always make substantial improvements and stay there is unrealistic, and Brandon does too much research to be able to do that. Now having all 3 main pov characters always suffer relapses for lack of a better word is just not believable. To take shallen for example she made no improvement she actually got worse, so expecting her to make an improvement after WoR is very reasonable her being worse is not.

I might be in the minority here but i dont think moash hates himself, i thing what we see from him is resignation not hate, also think he was just given the honourblade as a reward, most likely because a fused/regal/parshman can not use them, only humans can,

The fact its a corrupted spren makes it an odium spren, renarin had the red eyes to prove it. So he cant be a truthwatcher. I know renarin has alot of fans (don't know why) but its rather uncomplicated that at this point he is not a truthwatcher and thats just a fact. So venli being listed as a willshaper is all supposition ? Im sorry but she shouldnt be listed then, in a post that is a list of known knights radiant and there order it should only show proven knight radiants not any based on supposition, that cloudes the issue needlessly, Im not trying to be awkward of contradictory but makes no sense to have a list of known knights radiant and the order there in, with people listed who are 1) unknown to be knights radiant and 2) unknown what order they belong to

Renarin is bonded to an odium spren so cant be a truthwatcher so shouldnt be there imo Where is it said light spren represent willshapers ? Dont recall reading that could you say where thats said so i can look it up, thanks

Kaladin - conflicted Shallan - irritating Adolin - brave Szeth - redeeming Jasnah - harsh Dalinar - fake Renarin - useless Lift - funny Moash - clear-sighted Elhokar - disapointing Venli - two-faced

Im very late to this post, apologies for dredging it up, but renarin is not a truth watcher so he should be removed from that section, also why is venli listed as a willshaper ?

I don't think evi was cultivation taken form if thats what you meant. I do however think your right and evi had a link to cultivation, and was perhaps sent by cultivation to try temper dalinar as dalinar was being influenced by odium to such a degree that culivation thought she had to take action, ultimately this action failed. And this leads her to intervene again when dalinar goes to the nightwatcher and take more direct action via the boon/curse and also the degrading of said boon/curse