Rew

There also another point - in WoR - Shallan and Kaladin the Chasm during the highstorm - suddenly it is dark, the 'cubby' is expanded so Kaladin can stand up, and his leg no longer hurts - and he interacts with the Stormfather - it doesn't say what Shallan did, but seems to imply she had a similar experience. Based on the 'out-of-body-ness' of it all -(e.g. the fact that his pain disappears) I always thought it was the cognitive realm, but to a place there dominated by the Highstorm and thus completely different from the normal view of Shadesmar we see with Jasnah/Shallan. But that doesn't seem to fully explain what the place was. Either way, I don't think they went there physically... Some place betwixt and between the realms as it were? Thus the darkness (clouding of both physical and cognitive realms)?

On 'drynets' - the only thing I came up with was potentially, as singular 'drynet,' a slang word for a , as a way of, ahem, keeping things dry. ahem. [hope that isn't too much for the moderators...]

Kaladin and Shallan (and by extension their spren) are set up in many ways to be the opposite of one another - with all kinds of dichotomies from gender, to light/dark eyes, to fighter/non-combatant, and even other characteristics that can be seen directly in WoR - i.e. Kaladin hates the rain and feels drained and grumpy in the Weeping, while Shallan delights in it. WoR also points out that the spectrum of KR and their Oaths/Ideals seems to be bounded on opposite ends by the Windrunners and the Lightweavers, but also in the structures of their organizations - Lightweavers were more fluid and free who delight in paradox/contradiction, while the Windrunners were a more regimented hierarchy who thrived on order and concrete action. While it may be important that these two orders are set up as opposites and that this may be the meaning of the link between them, I don't know if we can generalize it between all the rest of the orders. More likely, I would postulate, is that the orders are connected in some way with that on the opposite end of the line - but that connection is not necessarily an opposing connection (like that it seems the Windrunners and Lightweavers seem to have with their paradoxical love-hate relationship - as exemplified by Kaladin and Shallan's interactions - but it may be that they are two sides of a similar coin. This doesn't mean they won't be attracted to each other - opposites attract and all.) In some cases, it could be a supportive relationship - i.e. Bondsmiths and Truthwatchers may be more intimately involved in supporting one another - thus, the Truthwatchers being "below" the Bondsmiths may indicate their supportive function in assisting the Bondsmiths in whatever they do - helping them unify perhaps through vision and growth-potential. I don't think we know enough to be able to tease out what all the relationships could be - but I think they will probably be more complex than a simple opposition of focus. It could be related to all kinds of things - their focus, their relative relationship to Honor/Cultivation, characteristics, Heralds they are patterned after, etc. Each relationship could be based off of one or more or none of those things, and each could be built from a different combination of them. It will be interesting to see how these relationships develop though the rest of the series though.

So, a theory has popped up (largely I've seen it on tor.com, but I've seen it here as well) that Vasher/Zahel could also be Ishi, one of the Heralds. I believe this is largely due to the fact that in his interlude, Ishi shows up as all four faces on the chapter icon. I will admit that when I was first reading WoR that I initially thought that he was Ishi at that point (just because of the fact that a- he was a strange character who knew a lot more than a normal vanilla mortal, and b-the icon), but later twigged to the fact that he must be Vasher. As for this theory though: it seems to claim that somehow, Ishi left Roshar (after breaking the oathpact?*), went to Nalthis, apparently died somehow (?), Returned (became Vasher, with no recollection of his former life/Roshar?), and then figured out how to worldhop again and came back to Roshar. (If there is someone out there that would like to claim this theory, who has a different timeline or understanding, please correct me**)*** My question is - Is that even possible based on what we know of Realmatic theory and investiture? Based on my general (admittedly rough) understanding of realmatic theory and cosmere-ology, it was my understanding that there were specific physical DNA distinctions (based on planet of origin/creation and the Shard that created/formed humans there) that affected spiritual DNA and hence the capabilities and how persons on each planet invest and utilize this investiture. If such is the case, could someone who originated elsewhere but worldhopped to Nalthis and then was killed/died, even be capable of being affected by Endowment and thus becoming a Returned? (I think perhaps my reference point for this is Elantris where one's tie to physical geography affects how they invest/utilize investiture.) I am sure that I am mangling the correct terminology (canonical or not) for this, and couldn't find what I thought I knew on the wiki or here in the forums. So, someone with more cosmerical knowledge, please, 'splain me! *Alternative question - how does this match up with the timeline of the Cosmere? if that is known at all... is it even possible that Ishi could have done this after breaking the Oathpact, have Warbreaker and its world history occur, and then be back to Roshar as Zahel? **This of course assumes that the Heralds are originally from Roshar and don't have something really funky going on in their own origin stories. If that is the case, then all bets are off. I assume that they are original Rosharians who have been granted immortality and thus derive their advanced knowledge either from years lived or directly from Honor prior to his shattering. *** if you can't tell based on my incredulous question marks, I really don't subscribe to this theory based on the evidence put forward for it (i.e. very little at the moment) that I have seen...

As for the Döner, Argent is correct - it has Middle Eastern origins - specifically it was (largely) brought to Germany, IIRC, by Turkish immigrants. It is thus similar to shewarma (more Arab) and the gyro (Greek version). In my mind, I pictured it more as the later, the Greek version, as they are more likely to dribble a thick (yogurt) sauce that can get very messy all over it. That and the Herdazian 'cousins' reminds me more of the stereotypical idea of large Greek families... But all this talk of Herdaz as Mexico makes me want to rethink that - I'll have to pay more attention on the next read through...

Maybe it's for a previously unknown Order of moral relativists...

Sorry, I forgot the comma in the transcript

So, got my copy of WoR from Weller's today - with personalization from Brandon. I asked for one of the KR ideals that has not been published yet - and he complied. It says, "To Rew I will stand (I may change this someday.)" I take it from his phrasing that this is not published in WoR, given that he may change it (and thus, I'm not putting this in the WoR forum). I didn't ask him to put the Order on it (feared he might not do it), but to me this sounds like the Stonewards? I'm pretty sure he was smirking a little, as this is really simple (yet powerful?). But I'll take it (PS- if this should be put in a different forum, is there a way I can do it? or the mods?) (PPS- this is a fun question to ask, though I wonder how many times he would answer it with something before RAFO-ing. Maybe people at the Midnight release and other signings could come up with other answers?)

Huh. Why are the listeners' genders malen and femalen? What makes them different from male and female? Aaand here the genders are male and female. Maybe the previous addition of 'n' at the end of each is just some English quirk. I just read it as an alternate plural ending - similar to, IIRC, how there is a (-n) ending for plurals for some of the other creatures on Roshar - e.g. santhyd - santhydin. This is just then more pointing to the Listeners as being more native to Roshar than humans? Question to ask Brandon I guess...

Yeah, I can totally see more conflicting evidence for both sides now. It's good to have things like this pointed out to get one out of the rut of one-way thinking. I like the thought about the endpaper and Old Magic. Gonna have to do a lot more thinking about it...

Huh, I always thought that Odium was associated with the purple and Cultivation with the orange. This was probably influenced by my ideas of the moons being representative of the "three gods" (as noted above as a oath/curse) - the purple one, Salas, seems to be associated with Odium. I've always found the color imagery interesting and potentially of specific import (in many cases, but not all).

Does that mean Eshonai is going to have some neat artwork specifically for her, a la the shamed-swordsman for Szeth? Hope so...

An additional thought that may impact speculation on the last surges (which I haven't seen discussed here or elsewhere. If someone's talked about it, I would love a link...) The Ars Arcanum from WoK states - This makes perfect sense with plants being paired with Order 5 (illumination and growth). However, seeing Order 10 have something to do with creatures makes less sense if we are assuming that its surges are surface tension and atmospheric pressure (or at least I don't see how surface tension paired with atmospheric pressure would help at all in the taming and training of a Chull/Wildspine/Axehound. But Brandon is much more creative than I, so ....) I think it would make more sense for surface tension to be paired with transportation in Order 8 (could make for some great logistical/support capabilities), and thus leaving the unknown surge as something that could be utilized specifically in the cultivation and husbandry of animals/creatures. This could still be some sort of communication surge... But I can't think of a way atmospheric pressure would work in relation to creatures either...

Drat! Been so long since I read Liar, I didn't immediately make the connection. So, 'originate' is probably not the right word. Maybe he's just being cryptic about his origins, but I can't but feel he is giving some indication of Shadesmar being important in who he is now/what he is able to do...

Don't know why it posted a couple times. Mods- delete the extra posts. Thanks! (Sorry if it was something I did)

So, haven't seen this up anywhere else, but came across this in my recent rereading in WoK and with what's been seen in WoR so far - interesting possibilities are afoot at the Circle K. (Otherwise known as Shadesmar? Is that how Bill and Ted did it?) In Shallan's chapter of WoR, we are given a much better idea/definition of Spren and their relation to the Cognitive realm, and humans than previously: Now, comparing the idea of spren as "living ideas" with this from "Wandersail": Now, Hoid may just be being cryptic here about the way he stole his identity from someone. But there seems to be just a little too much of a correspondence to Shallan and Jasnah's discussion. We know Hoid is intimately involved with and expert at manipulating Shadesmar to travel between worlds. What could this mean for him, if he originated somehow in the Cognitive Realm? This would be an interesting idea (see what I did there? ), as Hoid could then be literally the embodiment of storytelling - which would explain his penchant for being a spreader of knowledge and tales... Ok, all you who are smarter than me in the ways of the Cosmere - Discuss!

So, haven't seen this up anywhere else, but came across this in my recent rereading in WoK and with what's been seen in WoR so far - interesting possibilities are afoot at the Circle K. (Otherwise known as Shadesmar? Is that how Bill and Ted did it?) In Shallan's chapter of WoR, we are given a much better idea/definition of Spren and their relation to the Cognitive realm, and humans than previously: Now, comparing the idea of spren as "living ideas" with this from "Wandersail": Now, Hoid may just be being cryptic here about the way he stole his identity from someone. But there seems to be just a little too much of a correspondence to Shallan and Jasnah's discussion. We know Hoid is intimately involved with and expert at manipulating Shadesmar to travel between worlds. What could this mean for him, if he originated somehow in the Cognitive Realm? This would be an interesting idea (see what I did there? ), as Hoid could then be literally the embodiment of storytelling - which would explain his penchant for being a spreader of knowledge and tales... Ok, all you who are smarter than me in the ways of the Cosmere - Discuss!

So, haven't seen this up anywhere else, but came across this in my recent rereading in WoK and with what's been seen in WoR so far - interesting possibilities are afoot at the Circle K. (Otherwise known as Shadesmar? Is that how Bill and Ted did it?) In Shallan's chapter of WoR, we are given a much better idea/definition of Spren and their relation to the Cognitive realm, and humans than previously: Now, comparing the idea of spren as "living ideas" with this from "Wandersail": Now, Hoid may just be being cryptic here about the way he stole his identity from someone. But there seems to be just a little too much of a correspondence to Shallan and Jasnah's discussion. We know Hoid is intimately involved with and expert at manipulating Shadesmar to travel between worlds. What could this mean for him, if he originated somehow in the Cognitive Realm? This would be an interesting idea (see what I did there? ), as Hoid could then be literally the embodiment of storytelling - which would explain his penchant for being a spreader of knowledge and tales... Ok, all you who are smarter than me in the ways of the Cosmere - Discuss!

With the discussion on cities, I can't help but think of Kabsal's cymatics with the cities- who wants to bet that there's some relation? The major cities are so symmetrical physically because their underlying structure was initially determined and formed in the cognitive realm, which affected their reality in the physical realm.

Here gifty gifty gifty...here gifty gifty gifty...come to my house...

Yes, I would like some of this wonderfulness

I would point out a couple things, and then give my thoughts. 1- Elhokar sees them in a different way than Shallan. She has to use her drawings to know how she sees them, i.e. they are connected to her creativity. This corresponds to her connection to Shash (creative/honest) and blood connection (what she Soulcasts when she does so unconsciously). Elhokar can only see them in the mirror, out of the corner of his eye. This to me suggests something different, it is not creative. As well, it can be inferred that Jasnah, 1- knows what they are because she recognizes them from the drawings, but 2- she sees and knows them from a different situation/experience since she has no respect for the creative arts. 2- Because Soulcasting as a power is only connected to two different orders, it would make the most sense for Jasnah and Shallan to respectively represent the two of them. Which leaves the question then, what is Elhokar? I really like the idea presented above by Ryan about them being "cognitive" spren or spren connected somehow with the Cognitive Realm. My thought is that Elhokar will line up with the order associated with Ishi, and heliodor gems. This is mainly prompted by matching Elhokar's color scheme (gold- the color of his Shardplate and the gloryspren that are only associated with him) and the color schemes in the art on the front cover. I'm guessing that we have not seen any of the powers (unless someone can come up with some indication of what Elhokar did to drain his own gems instead of it being an attempt on his life, as he suspects) associated with this order. Similarly, I think that that would be a great order for a potential king, with the connections to other orders (Jez, Palah and Tanat) and characteristics that would be important for him. If I had to put forward a guess as per what the spren are and what powers he could use them for, I would probably suggest that they are somehow connected to the cognitive realm, but not with the sense of Soulcasting. Instead, it would probably have something to do with intuition, wisdom, "revelation" if you will- something to turn a headstrong and inexperienced boy king into a wise ruler (something his character arc seems to be pointing to). Also, I think that having Elhokar be associated with piety/guiding and rulership, and his heretical sister with Palah (learned/giving) and the emeralds used to create food would create some interesting contrary themes for Brandon to play with.

Well, first, as far as I recall, the Alethi are the ones making the assertion that they (Parshendi) consider them (Chasmfiends) gods, and the Alethi aren't exactly that knowledgeable about the foe they face (culturally at least- consider Dalinar's thoughts on male/females). Second, if in fact they do consider them gods of some sort, by taking their hearts and cutting them up and wearing little pieces of them in their beards, they could be trying to adopt/imbue themselves with a portion of the Chasmfiend's power or adorn themselves with a protective amulet. (Ironic then what this does to enable Kaladin to better fight them...) This sort of thing is represented in many different cultures in our world. That's just one theory of why they do it. Without further knowledge of their culture and belief system that's all it will remain... Another possibility would be that they understand the importance of Stormlight, but because of a lack of mining, etc, this is the only way that they can obtain anything that can capture it. They do need to power/repair at least a couple sets of Plate...maybe they consider it a willing sacrifice of their gods, again, to make them more powerful in battle.