Chartreuse Penguin

AWESOME. Yes…So I guess the entire elim team knows rip

Vote count: Mint Heron (2): Violet Axolotl, Oxblood Beagle Plum Rhinoceros (2): Quartz Zebra, Mint Heron Oxblood Beagle (4): Chartreuse Penguin, Fuchsia Ostrich, Ivory Dragonfly, Salmon Meerkat

And also they’ve been under ‘elim’ in literally all my reads lists since then

See my D3 vote smh

oops I dont disagree - it's just that we don't gain nearly as much info from lynching an inactive/semi-active as we would from lynching beagle

They had initially voted for me but did not recall exactly whom they voted for so they retracted both Octo/Ostrich. Guess who mentioned killing Octopus was an accident due to confusion between Octo/Ostrich and that they intended to kill me? That's right, it was Hyena. This similarity of confusion between Octopus and Ostrich for both Hyena AND Beagle is the biggest indication so Beagle's evil alignment to me. [Rhinoceros] That- I never even noticed this what- That is an extremely good catch Ostrich I agree with your assessment of Flamingo - all their posts/reads/votes before D3 seem suspicious to me but everything apart from that is very village, so I've decided to give them the benefit of the doubt for now so, leaning vill.

No flips is disappointing as I very much would've liked to see Rhino flip without wasting a day turn on it. Am not going to entertain WGG on Meerkat ideas, because I reckon the elims just wanna kill as many villagers as possible right now.:P I would like to believe Alb is village, as I find it hard to believe they'd bus Cham after losing two teammates already. I'm not softclearing Alb on this basis, but I lean slight village nonetheless. There seem to be a couple of votes on Heron - I do agree that their secluded voting style throughout the game has been odd, and the only reason I'm village-reading them is for that one time when they voted on Meerkat after he revealed his tineye scan gambit, which just seemed too much for an elim to do: https://www.17thshard.com/forum/?app=core&module=system&controller=content&do=find&content_class=forums_Topic&content_id=104196&content_commentid=1293022 But moving on, let's talk about Oxblood Beagle today. As evidenced by my D3 vote, I have been suspecting them a little bit for a while. But it wasn't until both the Hyena and Cham flips that I felt the need to bring them up again. During Night 1, Beagle posted their opinions on Gorilla, Iguana, and Cham (bc D1 CWs). What first stands out is Beagle defending Cham: And then, towards the end of the post they conclude that: This statement in and of itself is not that suspicious given that Gorilla was indeed an elim, however Beagle neglected to cast an actual vote on Gorilla because: and they instead voted on Ostrich in the same post, whom they had never before mentioned in their post at all. This entire post reads very odd to me/ Then, on D3, we have this post from Cham where they give their thoughts on the current exe situation and vote on Falcon. Cham also subtly defends Beagle against the two votes on them: Cham's vote on Falcon doesn't look great on Beagle either, because at this stage the vote count was: Salmon Meerkat (4): Magenta Albatross, Fuchsia Ostrich, Melon Dingo, Ivory Dragonfly, Emerald Falcon (2): Salmon Meerkat, Amethyst Scorpion Turquoise Gorilla (2): Coral Swan, Onyx Flamingo, Oxblood Beagle (2): Chartreuse Penguin, Emerald Falcon Cham chose to vote on Falcon over Gorilla and Beagle. Granted, it's possible that Cham was simply indifferent with regards to where his vote went as long as it didnt facilitate the Gorilla lynch. But the choice of having picked Falcon over Beagle is still a fact. If we are looking at v!Beagle, Cham could've chosen to write them off as a secondary suspect to Falcon, just in case the Falcon exe doesn't take off and they need to switch their vote to the Beagle train later in order to save Gorilla. However, Cham did the opposite and defended Beagle instead - didn't even include them in the exe preferences at all. Furthermore, there's this post of Beagle's, also from D3. Nothing so weird about the post overall, except that Beagle's read on Cham seems to change without explanation in different places within the same post. Initially, they say: (bolded mine) And further down in the same post: Contradictory reads, as they had been null earlier. Hyena also posted that turn, giving his thoughts on the current exe candidates: Initially sus because Hyena is subtly defending Beagle. And I can also see this being a mild form of distancing if e!Beagle because while Hyena does say he might vote on them, he never actually does and in fact afaik he barely even mentioned beagle after this. Furthermore Cham posted a reads list on D3 as well, with Beagle as: Again, red flags. Blatant defence. Anyway yea idk

Current village reads (8): Meerkat, Ostrich, Axolotl, Scorp, Zebra, Alb, Heron, Dingo. In that order. By PoE, I am left with (6): Azure Mouse, Ivory Dragonfly, Onyx Flamingo, Oxblood Beagle, Plum Rhinoceros, Sapphire Elephant Given that we’ve caught three elims, there’s likely three or four left. Leaning four, considering that both Cham and Gorilla were vanilla. Three if they’ve got like, secret mistborn in hiding. Inactives maybe.

Great job team <3

I- I was wondering why you went in this post of yours from D3. CR, makes sense.

I have to say this feels like hedging xD it’s almost like you wanna keep the Alb train as a backup vote option in case you wanna quickly switch votes i understand being uncertain as a villager but,,,

alright kids I've been rereading the thread and I've now stopped at page 20 out of 40 It is 4:30 am. I have a migraine, my eyeballs ache, my back hurts, and I'm dehydrated but I have come to the conclusion that Pearl Chameleon needs to die. Note that I have not read this turn's thread yet, at least not past the last time I posted. But I will get around to this I promise, tomorrow morning. Now you might be asking penguin why are you voting on someone when you've only reread half the game. Well the answer is a) because I need to vote before going to bed tonight in order to feel a sense of accomplishment and b)i doubt the events of cycles 3 to 4 have much to do with cham i think they were on the sidelines most of the time and we pretty much acted unanimously as a thread for the better part of those cycles but do not worry I fully intend to finish my reread of the game and if I feel like my suspicions are ill-founded then I shall retract my vote. Anyway. It all starts D1 >:) Cham first post is a vote on iguana - fine, doesn't imply much. Hyena's first post (the reads list) had Cham down as: Note that he subtly defends Cham while hedging on providing a definitive read. Cham never chooses to address this part of hyena's post. Next, After meerkat moves his vote to gorilla, pearl and gorilla sit at a tie (2 votes on each), and cham chooses to vote on Swan instead of Gorilla because Hedgy, no? Extremely non-committal. Notably, Axolotl calls cham out for this: This whole guilty-until-proven-innocent convo between Axolotl and Cham does not read e-e to me, for future reference. (Something's up with the quote boxes up there but idk too tired to bother fixing it lol) Furthermore, shortly after, in this post cham says: If that was so, it would've made more sense for Cham to vote for Gorilla instead of Swan. That would've brought the exe to 3/2 split between the two of them instead of bringing it to a tie. As of then, the vote situation was: (2) Pearl Chameleon: Scarlet Octopus, Mauve Crocodile, (2) Torquoise Gorilla: Violet Axlotlt, Salmon Meerkat, (1) Charcoal Hyena: Chartreuse Penguin, (1) Amethyst Scorpion: Charcoal Hyena, (1) Scarlet Octopus: Amber Vulture, (1) Melon Dingo: Coral Swan, (1) Coral Swan: Oxblood Beagle, (1) Violet Axlotl: Onyx Flamingo, (1) Mauve Crocodile: Fuchsia Ostrich, (At some point in D2, Cham says something about how they might change their vote in a certain direction in order to solidify a lynch and prevent the tie, so Im confused as to why they were seemingly okay with it here. An explanation could be that e!Cham just wanted to save Gorilla.) Back to d1: later on in the cycle, at the point where the votes were Gorilla decided to vote Swan instead of Cham, despite the fact that voting Cham would've further protected gorilla from the exe. Unprompted, Gorilla claimed that this was because Cham seemed village to them in PMs: I noticed that was never addressed to by Cham in-thread, so I PM'd Cham today asking whether they had a PM with Gorilla, and what they discussed. Interestingly enough, Cham said that they never had any game-related conversations D1 (all OOG stuff) and that Gorilla mainly talked RP-style. Which begs the question, how exactly had Gorilla gotten village vibes from Cham in their PM? More importantly, why didn't Cham feel the need to point out the fact that they never really even talked game-related events? Back to d1, Cham later switches their vote back to iguana from swan, breaking the 3-3 tie between cham and swan. One possible explanation i can see for e!cham doing this is that a tie would've meant that either gorilla (an elim) or swan (villager) would've gotten exe’d at random. If swan got exe’d and cham was seen on the counter wagon, it would’ve incriminated cham to some degree if gorilla flipped. Or at least, this is what I was thinking before it came to my knowledge that the entire Iguana wagon was coordinated by Cham via PMs (I mean that logic still holds true in this case too but). Was this common knowledge? If it was, why haven't more people been talking about it? Anyway I PM'd Alb today asking if their sudden vote on Iguana had anything to do with Cham's PMs with them and Alb explained that yes, Cham had coordinated it. Sus? At least a little? Also, of lesser significance but I think it's worth mentioning that Alb has claimed that Gorilla spoke to them not in RP-style, but OOC in their PM (recall that Cham claimed the opposite and idk, I'd expect consistency from Gorilla I think) I mean it's a tiny thing but hey. Okay, moving on to N1. Again, hedging around Gorilla, neglecting to provide personal opinion on them. Sigh ok that's all for now I do have other fragmented thoughts from my reread that I've written down but since they do not pertain to Cham I'll talk about those later. Also Im sure there's a billion things in this post that probably dont make sense just @ me ill explain when I have regained s t r e n g t h

So sorry Falcon :(( Tentatively moving Scorp into village reads Immediately suspicious of Cham, but I will analyze the previous cycles once again with Falcon’s flip when I’m on desktop and cast my vote then I still believe the elims have a second mistborn so they could’ve scanned Swan last cycle. It’s also worth considering that they might have a Seeker, who seeked Falcon N1, and seeked Swan last cycle. That would’ve condemned Lurcher #1 very strongly through wouldnt it? I’m sure the elims realise you’d been communicating with your trusts.

I mean, if Falcon actually got a coinshot claim and the elims wanted to attack the coinshot, e!Falcon wouldnt have ever announced it to the thread

okay, what's your current view of falcon?

v!falcon is not impossible, so if you have a reads list even if it's only slightly different to Meerkat's, would appreciate if you shared it plus we can probably get info out of e!Falcon's reads list

I'm strongly betting that Falcon has a role of some kind, even if it is not Lurcher. Any role is more important than vanilla tbh I dont know axolotl's alignment note that I have said that in the case of v!falcon you will move into my village reads too, so this point isnt even that important, my main argument against you is the rest of my post I have no way of confirming that!

D1, Scorp was the final vote on Gorilla, which made it a three way tie: In light of gorilla’s alignment this makes scorp look good. But considering the elims had vote manip, it’s not unthinkable for e!scorp to hop onto this band wagon last second for village cred. Admittedly this part is not related to your alignment but hang on. D2, straight after Meerkat called his bluff off, Scorp jumped with a vote on you (note that this was the first vote to be cast on you that cycle): I read this little post as strongly e/e, are you to flip elim, because of how quickly they retracted their vote once your wagon gained traction (gorilla had 5 votes and you were runner up with 4): In this post, Scorp suggests D1 to be v/v/v as well, which is sus in its own right. Scorp tried to pull themself out of the Falcon wagon because at this point (assuming e!Falcon), e!scorp would much rather save a Lurcher teammate than a Vanilla teammate. It’s only logical. They vote on Flamingo, who didn’t have any votes on them at this point. This was obviously just a place holder vote, done in order to switch votes form Falcon to Gorilla in a way that wasn’t too abrupt. Because just less than 3 hours later Scorp changes his vote to Gorilla: this was VERY last minute; around 10 minutes before rollover. Falcon follows suit with her own vote on Gorilla shortly after. In this scenario if Falcon is village, Scorp looks really good. edit: @Coral Swan that is also a good point

Ah soz that was a typo, it was meant to say revisit if v!Falcon thanks for pointing it out If you flip v then Scorp is very highly likely village, as their voting patterns suggest

:thonk: only cuz u say so

yep, e!Falcon essentially means this tineye message was Hyena. v!Falcon means there's another Mistborn/tineye UPDATED READS LIST TIME: Vill: Meerkat, Swan, Zebra(?), Alb, Flamingo, Cham (revisit if v!Falcon), Heron, Ostrich, Axolotl(?) Unsure: Mouse, Elephant, Rhino, Ivory Elim: Falcon, Scorp (revisit if e!Falcon), Beagle, Melon (gut) I think there's one elim among the 'unsure' players. Tempted to also throw Ivory in the elim pile, but I do not have any substantial justification for it.

Aye

He’s been switching votes v frequently that’s kinda sus ngl

He is technically currently voting Quartz as per his latest post :[

I personally believe all three of those points are true. I am strongly against not exeing Hyena right here and now