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Fifth Scholar

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  1. Fifth Scholar
    I judge that you die (more serious post incoming after I put my brain back together after my Hebrew class )
  2. Fifth Scholar
    Y'all. Please. Forget PM safety, how about thread safety? There aren't enough Lurchers to cover every soul that claims a role >> Besides that, anyone sewing chaos by claiming a role publicly is getting suspicion from me from now on. If you want to confuse the storms out of me kindly have the courtesy to shoot me a PM and do it there instead >> +1 to this
  3. Fifth Scholar
    It scared me for a good second too. That said, welcome back to @Wyrmhero! It's really been a while and I hope you can stick around and GM a few times :> Quoting this mainly to respond to your amalgamation of puns and actual points which you made last cycle, which is the only thing I'm going to bother looking at other than votes from yesterday after I left the thread because if I try to multiquote everything I will go insane. >> You seemed to come out of last cycle with more up-front suspicion of Striker than I, essentially because it seems you saw his original post as incontrovertibly bad and subsequent ones as simple efforts at damage control. Given that my stance on Striker has thus far been the equivalent of an enormous shrug, I' m not opposed to your take, but I wonder what you think of it now that Books (who you and I also suspected) has flipped village. Also, now that you've presumably got more time, I'd like to hear your points against TUO and Tani; both of them have kind of slid under my radar, which is perhaps reason enough to give them a second look, but they seem like normal new / adjusting players to me, so I'm curious why they stuck out in your read enough to give them a mention. Re: your "Fifth very good at appearing village" comment, it occurs to me that the newer players haven't actually been in a game with me where I'm village yet, since my three most recent appearances (LG60, MR38a/b, QF45) I was evil every time. I swear I can be nice, guys, 2020 GM RNG just wasn't feeling in the mood (which makes up for 2018 GM RNG, I suppose, which made me village every game >>) With the way vote counts are done, there's really no incentive against Elims messing with their votes just to sew chaos, so this is a good point. I will say that if the Elims did this, though (which I'm currently assuming is the case), they've conveniently exposed that they have vote manip. (Remember how I was saying those Smokers would come in handy? ) Rioting is weird in this case, though, as I'd assume if it had been used, the vote totals would have gone *up* in some places, not down, so... /shrug All hail the glorious Wyrmimir Some clarification on the SoR vote: the posts they had made at the time seemed weird and disjoint from what was going on (the ones at the beginning of the turn), which I thought might be an attempt to lie low on the edge of suspicion, and then he made the post about how Smokers ought to power off their copperclouds to let Seekers scan them, which I strongly disagreed with and saw as helping the Eliminators. He was also less active than Books or Illwei, the alternatives at the time, and I agreed rather strongly with Araris' point that it would be more fair to let vocal players survive D1. Tl;dr he wasn't my top suspicion, but situationally he made the most sense because I had no solid case against anyone else (y'know, because it was D1 ) The Books avalanche and the vote manip should probably be considered separately - my view is that even if SoR is evil, only one of those phenomena were generated by Team Evil. Either of them would have sufficed to save an Elim!SoR, and I don't think the elims would have tipped their hand so heavily to save a member this early on. So either the last-minute swing of votes (Bard, Ash, Devotary, TJ) was half-or-more evil, or the heavy vote manipulation was done by an elim or two, but not both. Sorry if that made no sense to anyone but myself. Right now I have almost universally null reads on the wagon of Books voters, so I'm of the view that evil!SoR would mean the elims sending in vote manip actions early in the turn to make sure he survived and then getting pleasantly surprised by the mostly-village tumble onto Books last-minute. Ash and Devotary probably look the worst off the last-minute voting, in this elaborate world I've constructed, and I'm going to stop analysing here because I'm just rambling at this point Pretty much full agreement with the third paragraph here. Village manipulation to cement a result is definitely possible, and if that's the case it was probably done by someone who either hopped on the Books wagon last-minute, or saw the trend and wanted to continue. Or maybe just a newer player eager to use their manip abilities, which I can't blame them for because I did the same with a Soother role in my first game And here Stick is taking basically the opposite view. I would agree with you if people only used manip when it was necessary, but oftentimes it's the exact opposite, which is why I'd maintain that the village manipulator(s) were probably more likely to be on towards the end of the turn. Ouch, I see someone doesn't bother reading my multiquotes unless I tag them More seriously, I hope to put my own opinions out a bit more soon to leave an actual impression, and should have a reads list later tonight or tomorrow. I just am not spending the 6+ hours on the game that I did yesterday trying to catch up, so forgive me if this post and a few shorter ones later in the cycle are all that I manage for tonight.
  4. Fifth Scholar
    The asterisk is because I'm reading you as good for reasons I don't think are solid (a combination of tone / quantity of content / Stick's comment about how Elim!Quinn probably wouldn't say some of the things you said), so I'm leaving the asterisk there as a note to myself that I should look back into that trust read if I have the time Your last statement there is quite vague; I understand the meta reasoning, I guess, but what has she "posted in this game" that specifically merits suspicion from a non-meta angle? From what you've said here I have no clear idea why you're voting for Illwei See above. Yeah, I don't blame you. A lot of the multiquoting is documentation for myself as to what I thought about certain players at certain times, so I don't blame you if you don't find it terribly edifying. +1 to basically all of this, and don't worry about stuff being a page old. With the current speed of the thread I'm happy to keep up in any way I can This...is the oddest combination of reads I've seen today but I'll allow it Interested in your takes on Maill and Tani, if you want to elaborate on either of those. I'd been seeing them as village and null respectively, so I'm curious what's making you take almost the opposite view. Feel you on the deleted multiquotes and ninja'ing, you're not the only one struggling with that. You take an interesting and strong stand on Illwei's shrekking, and I agree with most of it, but would qualify it by saying that Illwei has done nothing to earn trust so far, I just think the logic or lack thereof behind her shrekking makes her a bad lynch target for someone so active, and discussion becoming a whirlpool around her is unproductive in a 28-player game. It is kind of interesting how our reads have basically converged. I'd be happy to join you on Books, as I was suspicious of him earlier for basically the same reasons, but Shard is less active than he is and still drew my ire earlier, so I'm going with him for now. I would like to commend you for this post, though, as it made me laugh. If more people could vote in the next hour or so, so that I actually have the opportunity to see who's getting shrekked instead of finding out when I wake up, that'd also be great
  5. Fifth Scholar
    Okay. So. I just lost a two-hour multiquote when I was switching between tabs of this thread because people were posting so much. I am not happy so here is a snappish tl;dr without the quoting - voting for Shard of Reading - I agree with araris that we shouldn't be killing people that are active D1 if we can help it (or returning players, which is why the quinn vote on maill is weird to me) - Quinn and Illwei are getting too frustrated with each other; Quinn has good points that Illwei isn't answering but is also tunnelling - five or six of y'all post too much to reasonably keep up with and the others barely post at all - village reads: Stick, Maill, Quinn*, Araris, Elandera - speaking of which I'm glad @Elandera is having fun with her new playstyle - elim reads: Dannex, SoR, Illwei, Books, Experience - no storming clue what to make of Striker or Ventyl - still sad I lost all my specific analysis and half-witty replies - I'm kinda burnt out on the thread please chill with me in PM if you want to talk in the next few hours AG2
  6. Fifth Scholar
    Y'all are literally posting faster than I can multiquote >> What is modern SE? cries in obsolete playstyle
  7. Fifth Scholar
    Agreed. One of them used to be in the SE Lexicon and was withdrawn for good reason. Hey, total AG2 amnesia isn't a thing after all! Hooray! And you're completely correct on Kas being a troll willing to do anything with the roles, so excellent point here. (Honestly maybe I should just read further on before reiterating the same points other people have already made but multiquoting is an addiction >>) Thanks for the reads - I actually find this type of thing quite helpful. Interesting take on Mat. I'll confess that I remember very little of what he posted other than the initial thing against Striker, but agree that it seemed in line with a general village mentality. Not really a fan of the Dannex or Pyro reads (leaning elim and null respectively there) but your opinion on Striker is what I think I'm slowly coming around to, minus the IKYK-y logic that he's acting too suspicious to be evil, which I've already laid out my problems with. After his first post he's been making mostly solid points and helping the conversation advance, so even if I disagree with his opinions on a few things, I don't really feel a need to lynch him, and you seem to be saying much the same. As for Illwei: I guess I trust your logic over my own, since you know her playstyle a lot better, but I hope you understand if I find it difficult to vote on her for those reasons even if they're setting off red flags for you, because I couldn't justify them to myself. (That probably doesn't make sense but whatever ) Point is, I'm not going to condemn Illwei unless I find her more suspicious than everyone else from non-meta stuff. Maill in PMs from the get-go, from my limited experience with him, is less of a pocketing thing and more of a Maill thing, though I've only played with him when one of us was evil, or in a faction game, so I'm not really sure what a personal village-village interaction with him looks like. Hopefully I can use this game to find out I know concurrence on reads shouldn't be a major point of informing my own reads but Striker agreeing with almost all my suspicions makes me like his thought process better. Stink is making a Stink post. Do you have thoughts on any of the Striker / Books stuff? Oof, hope you get better from whatever happened. I will note briefly that votes getting thrown around is what I'd consider normal, healthy D1 behaviour, since the only people with any real clue of what's going on are the elims, so I tend to be fine with people that drop early votes and switch them around a lot Edit: through page 5. Going to try to speedrun the last three pages so I can actually participate in conversations and maybe respond to some of y'alls responses as well.
  8. Fifth Scholar
    So sorry for the walls of text y'all (except not at all) (Note: I'm doing these multiquotes a page at a time to preserve my sanity, so a lot of what I say might be outdated, as I won't have read past whatever I'm responding to. ) This comment from Books stuck out to me because I don't really like these defences, from experience; it's true that eliminators try to avoid immediately obvious suspicion, but thinking like this leads to the inverted process of clearing people for saying suspicious things, which has always struck me as utterly backwards. Part of the village's job is appearing village and taking enough care not to mislead your fellow villagers by accident, and while mistakes can and do often happen, it's my experience that comments like Striker's should rightfully be regarded as mildly suspicious and not used as an argument against his death. As obvious as such misleading comments may appear, they're often useful as a smokescreen for more subtle manipulation, and can ironically lead to mild trust if the conversation around it plays out correctly (as we're seeing here). So I guess this makes me somewhat suspicious of both Striker and Books. Yep, agreed completely. Again, posting suspicious and misleading comments is a Bad Thing no matter which alignment it's coming from Hmm. More hedging / equivocation from Books on Striker. I find this early focus a little interesting (though I suppose there's not much else to discuss), and it's something I would expect to see out of an elim!Books regardless of Striker's alignment. I've already stated my disagreements with the Coinshot take as well, which is one point of Striker's I'm happy to echo. I like this post from Gears, who gets the Striker situation mostly correct, I feel (that the post was suspicious and some of the reactions were as well). I disagree with him on Books, but otherwise this post is rock-solid, and I wish I'd looked at LG73 more to understand it a bit better. Probably my first village read from everyone so far. Gonna have to disagree pretty strongly with the first paragraph; again, Smokers will always appear copperclouded, and can maintain consistent protection on whomever they want, so an elim Smoker could dress up a good portion of their team as vanillager very consistently. The comment on odds also doesn't take into consideration that unless scan targets are chosen at complete random (which seems like a not-great idea), the people you want to Seek are going to be the most likely to be Smoked, doubly so if they're evil. And offensive Smoking is still a thing even if everybody forgot about it after AG2. Your case for Coinshots as terminal Seekers is a good one. Hmm. Getting weird tonal feelings from the third and fourth paragraphs that I can't put a finger on. My best explanation is that it seems like retroactive framing, where Striker realised his comments were rightfully attracting suspicion and tried to make it seem as good as possible after the fact? I might just be letting my general suspicion of him cloud my judgment, though, and it's way too early in the game to be tunnelling >> Agreed with Books 100% here despite my suspicion of him. More generally, I think Striker / Books is unlikely to be elim / elim unless they teamed up early and decided in the doc to confuse the storms out of me with their posts Hmm. Not familiar enough with the current meta to comment on this, and this is a pretty standard D1 vote when there's not much to go on, but would you mind laying this out a bit more for those of us who haven't been around the past year or so? I'm generally not a huge fan of meta lynches, so I'd need a bit more before I went after Illwei on PM comments, and find it a bit odd that you're doing so yourself. Glad to see I'm not the only person noticing this stuff on Books, which puts Stick in my village camp along with Gears for now (doubly so for her comment on Smoker distros. People's collective amnesia of AG2 is very dangerous and I'm glad she's speaking against it ). Also, welcome back! It's been so long for us both Village Smokers can be some of the most useful people around. Not only do they shield against elim vote-manip (which, if we have Smokers, is almost guaranteed), but they also protect from Elim Seekers, and Kas is totally enough of a troll that I'm not ruling one of those out. In other words, they exist for a reason and killing people for being a Smoker is both unfair and wrongheaded (I feel like a broken record at this point, but AG2, AG2, AG2 ). Okay, Quinn's take on Illwei was weird but I can get behind suspicion of her for this comment. Killing vanillagers or Smokers for their role is, as I've stated above, a bad idea both on a meta level and a strategic one, and I'm not really happy with everyone pushing it both explicitly and implicitly. Re: a distro in which village Smokers are useful, any distro in which the Elims have access to emotional Allomancy, Seekers, or Mistborn, which is...nearly half the roles? So yeah, they're very helpful Hmm. Not too bad a take; I'm a little more agnostic about proactive Smoking from villagers. Having a wider spread of protection against emotional allomancy and malicious Seekers isn't a bad idea, but interference with village Seeking is a bit more of an issue - ideally, it'd be used on those already Sought, though that would require a good deal of trust in PMs from several power roles Hmm. Not a bad defence from Books, actually, and I do like his point on assuming the worst when it comes to elim Smokers. Still don't trust him one bit, though Again, not a huge fan of this attitude towards Smoking; security from vote manip is more important than most people acknowledge, especially when Elims start messing with the lynch votes just to sow confusion, and beyond that, relying on our Seekers to do all the analysis work for us, and catch the Elims, is a bad idea. They're a helpful asset and can catch and clear a few people, but our game plan should not be make-or-break around the Seekers finding Team Evil while we just get out of their way as much as possible. (I also think that it makes for a pretty boring game even when it works, so /shrug) *sigh* I hate getting suspicious of half the players from D1 but the banter between you and Illwei is making my paranoia levels go way higher than they need to >> Happy to see someone else speaking the common sense of the ages. And welcome back to you as well! Don't think we've played together since your initial return in MR31 or thereabouts, so this should be fun Alright, that's two more pages I've responded to and... *sighs* four more to go. These might start getting shorter. I promise to put down a vote once I've caught up to everything Right now I'm leaning towards suspicion of Books, Dannex, and someone in the whole Quinn/Illwei/SoR group, and am just confused as Braize about Striker. Gears, Stick and Maill seem to be talking the most sense so far, but I've got more left to do
  9. Fifth Scholar
    Hey Mat! I...have already forgotten why I quoted this, so maybe midnight!Fifth shouldn't be posting now. Ah well. I think it was your point on elim team size, which I generally agree with - six elims with power roles or a thug is what I'd lean towards. When I played SE (and presumably when Kas was around as well) there was the Meta Rule of 20% being a good size for Team Evil, which I've always agreed with, but it seems tougher nowadays since elim teams are closer to 25%; with this ruleset, though, I agree that six makes a lot more sense. Not necessarily; see my points to Mat above. Kas is also a consummate troll, so picking out his role distributions isn't something I'm going to try to do too much, but seven seems tilted a little too heavily in favour of Team Evil unless the village received a lot of Seeking and terminal Seeking power, which we have no evidence of yet. If three people die tonight, though, I might come around to your stance I see PM safety has taken as long of a hiatus as I have Also, welcome back, Pyro, as I hear you are returning as well. Will echo Striker's point on Coinshots. The Elims knowing you exist is a small price to pay for the information that comes from vigkills, and even hitting a few villagers is okay if their deaths yield information. I would be careful with the roleclaiming, though, as has been pointed out by others; even if the Seeker finds a villager, they don't need to form trust circles, especially with the Smoking mechanic for this game making it easier for villagers to slip in there anyway. (Elim Seekers starting these is also an enormous danger, as unlikely as that is, because they can pocket as many villagers as they want and kill them at their leisure. And it can be really hard to tell them from village Seekers. #AG4flashbacks) As regards your point on elim team size, see above. Seven mislynches sounds like a lot until you realise that with seven elims to lynch, it's only a 50% mislynch success rate for the Elims to win assuming vigkills aren't factored in. That's not too hard of a threshold to reach, and so I'd think six people with power roles or a thug continues to make the most sense. Coinshots should certainly be careful if we get closer to parity, but generally speaking they're the best resource the village has, especially around C2/3 when we're trying to crystallise information and reads. Killing a few pivotally suspicious players to get a good feel for the remaining pool of suspects is typically worth it from a purely utilitarian standpoint. And if someone is Seeked (Sought?) as evil, we should just lynch them. No sense relying on the Coinshot and letting possible elim Lurchers get in the way, as long as we don't let it kill discussion too much. I feel like I'm gonna be sad reading these threads and missing half the references until I get caught up on recent SE history. It seems like a fun time. Alright, midnight!Fifth is turning into 1AM!Fifth and we're only a page in, so I think I'll call it a night and catch up on the rest tomorrow. If you want me to prioritise me talking to / about you, please PM me. (And thank you to the kind soul who has already done so. ) As a final point, I will read / do RP as time permits - it makes me sad I can't participate reflexively as I used to, but college is annoying like that >>
  10. Fifth Scholar
    Hey y'all! I, uh, completely forgot this was starting today and not tomorrow. So. Let me catch up on the six pages of thread (not bad at all for 24 hours ) and I'll try to throw a post together, though given it's midnight here, it might be more likely that I take a few mental notes and put something lengthier up tomorrow. Looking forward to jumping back into the games with you guys! And please send me a PM if I've not played a game with you at some point, as I'd like to get to know people better given that I've not been around here as a player in forever. (thank you for everyone tagging me telling me to post, mea culpa there)
  11. Fifth Scholar
    If my SE experience / memory is anything to judge by, you're well on your way to becoming a millionaire. I can think of at least four examples off the top of my head (MR29 foremost among them). Poor Devotary.
  12. Fifth Scholar
    Epic RP signup to perhaps be edited in, but I have not played a game in a year and we are fixing that, and an LG with the simplest ruleset of all should be a good way to go about it. Count me in as Iste Confessor, the village Scholar who's gotten perhaps a little too paranoid after his investigations into past incidents with Spiked. Not so paranoid that he won't do his part this time around, though...
  13. Fifth Scholar
    Not as long as the Roshar doc for cycles 5-6. It's still a respectable 110 pages though.
  14. Fifth Scholar
    Note to everyone: I realise the end of this writeup is a little incomplete. I'm going to be busy IRL through Thursday, but hopefully after that I'll get a decent ending up. Just didn't want to leave you guys hanging forever, as if there's anything we can agree on, it's that this game needed to end. Also something I wrote last night when my brain could not write more RP if it wanted to: Some final (12 AM) thoughts for y’all as I wrap up my time as a mod: Thanks to all of you for letting me hold this position for the two years I’ve had it, and putting your trust in me through some very interesting situations. It seems appropriate that my tenure here has begun and ended with an AG Shard game, so doing this writeup was a nice conclusion in that respect, and I’d like to reiterate my thanks to @little wilson and @Elbereth for letting me take it on, and for just being awesome GMs throughout this game. It would have been a lot more of a mess if they hadn’t been on top of it as they always are. To @Devotary of Spontaneity: Thank you for being the active mod this year that I couldn’t. Sorry to kill your character twice, but you wanted a redemption arc for him. So. If it’s any consolation, your living Shard game characters now have a much better shot at Cosmere domination than mine @Elandera and @Araris Valerian: You will both make great mods. Enjoy the ride ahead To everyone in the game: thank you for making this fun. Dealing with specific incidents and the general balance issues that sprang up around this game was not fun, but it was worth it to talk to you guys in the spec and world docs, and to laugh at your PMs back when I had the time to read them. To the C5/6 Roshar doc participants, and the C7 Scadrial doc people (who were mostly the same), I am especially grateful for you humouring me and my desire to play anagrams and shrekman and chess. I hope it’s a tradition that continues past this game. This is by no means a farewell, as I plan to hang around the community for a while yet, and I’ll be on the newly expanded game balance committee as well. So if you have game ideas, feel free to shoot me a PM on here or on Discord (though there’s a higher chance of me seeing the latter in a reasonable timeframe ). I look forward to murdering you all as a regular citizen in many a game to come, and also plan on fleshing out this writeup once I get the time. So if you have requests for your character, it’s not too late to send them in Thank you all, Fifth
  15. Fifth Scholar
    PM someone on the committee and they’ll take a look. I’d be happy to help you personally
  16. Fifth Scholar
    Al Funcoot straightened his cloak. A thin trickle of blood was running down his left arm where a stray dagger had caught him in the conflict—Caliex’s last attempt to reach “Mint” before being forcibly restrained had instead connected with his arm, and fencer though he was, he had not the agility to avoid the quick strike. The new crew leader had fortunately taken Caliex away before more harm could be done, but Funcoot saw in her eyes, and in the eyes of several around him, suspicion for Mint nonetheless. It was all but confirmed that she was an Obligator now, so he hung back, joining in the chorus of general condemnation, while darting his eyes side to side when he judged nobody would be looking. Grim nods passed between him and the others. They would do what needed to be done, when the time came. Just before the crew leader’s scheduled arrival, they would spring the trap. But not yet. They let Mint be bound, knowing her freedom was imminent, and their positions strengthened as Rae took her away. Varen was taken down by Ash, and still Funcoot waited. The blood continued to trickle, more slowly as the wound clotted, yet still running in a steady stream down his bare flesh. Olaf clenched his fist, allowing the red liquid to seep under his dirtied fingernails and spread around his hand. A bloodstained hand: that seemed accurate enough. He had murdered, or was complicit in the murder, of most of these men. Yet what did this pathetic group of skaa hope to achieve? The Lord Ruler’s might could not be tossed aside by a dozen, however committed. Power resided not in desperate groups of peasantry with no coherent plan, but with those who possessed the adequate means to seize it for themselves, or those who sought the already powerful. Funcoot had been forced to do the latter, bending his back to the obligators and helping them infiltrate this crew. It pained him, but he did it. He had experience acting noble—he had, after all, been one before—but nobility of character, he surmised, had long since been abandoned. It was a different nobility he sought, and it was not one the thieving crew would grant him. Those with the Lord Ruler’s favour, however? They would. And so his decision was easy. A new position, and he would begin magnifying his own strength without needing to appease those now above him. The false documents had been almost child’s play, especially given House Ffnord’s lack of rigour in monitoring family connections. But getting an Obligator to accept them was always going to be the challenging part; until now. He had three standing by, eager to help him assume the identity he had painstakingly crafted. An identity far more in line with his true self than the buffoonish Funcoot had ever been. An arsonist. A politicker. And above all, a broken idealist, an expert in using the systems he had once decried to gain ever more control for himself. Count Olaf of House Ffnord.
  17. Fifth Scholar
    Alright, here goes. I realise Truthwatcher might not be awake to respond to or see this, but here’s my reasoning in response to his points. If you want to go to a good fabric store, I recommend Reap What You Sew, a quilt shop with a convenient location in nearby Tathingdwen, and a friendly proprietor. Vote Tormander instead so we can rob the house Orlok seized control of. I am gonna say that this is not far from my suspicions, and I’m definitely considering Straw bussing you in addition to Vapor or Eternum as inactive fourth eliminators. I will agree that Mint should have had the good sense to include at least one or two Elims in her suspicions list, which is why I’m leaning Vapor/Straw as the fourth elim over Eternum. An obvious hammer at the end of D5 onto an eliminator, when hammering onto anyone wouldn’t have guaranteed an elim victory, seems like a pretty foolish move for an Elim to make; there was no need for elim!Lotus to put Mint at risk when Devotary was a perfectly good mislynch which she was already uninvolved in. I think Lotus was trying to say this, but probably didn’t want to reveal if she had a PM with Devotary, which I understand. Villager-villager PMs are one of the few pieces of information the Elims don’t have access to, and there was no need for the public to know if the two were PMing when Devotary had already flipped village, and the hammer was fairly clearly devoid of malicious intent. I just think that Lotus’ behaviour is utterly devoid of evil intent when she could have easily secured an Elim victory at multiple points, and was being pushed fairly obviously as an alternative to Mint by yourself and Ash last cycle. Not really? Outed eliminators (and I would consider you decently outed, given your vote on Lotus last cycle) rarely receive defence from teammates, as that ties them closer together. Consider Mint, who basically wasn’t defended for four cycles straight—the lynch just kept getting deflected elsewhere because she and her teammates kept quiet and let discussion slide off her, until we finally committed to killing her last cycle. It’s another reason I’m not eliminating Straw from my suspect pool despite his attacks on you this cycle, as it could be very effective distancing.
  18. Fifth Scholar
    We’re definitely robbing House Tormander. More seriously, this clarifies a lot. It looks like we have two easy lynch targets in Truthwatcher and Ashbringer, as the Elims would have hammered if one of those votes was innocent. The fourth elim is probably the non-voting Straw or one of Eternum/Vapor who wasn’t on to switch back from Mint, but our lynches should be fairly clear the next two rounds. I really don’t see a reason for anyone to suspect Lotus at all.
  19. Fifth Scholar
    @Straw, even if you’re evil, I’d like you to put down a vote now. If we’re going to lose this by a hammer, I at least want the hammering Eliminators to be distinct from villagers voting last-minute.
  20. Fifth Scholar
    I mean, there’s little to be offered besides self-defence; I’d do the same in her position (in fact, I did, two cycles in a row )
  21. Fifth Scholar
    I think a far more likely explanation for last cycle is Devotary contacting Lotus through PM, convincing them that she’s a villager, and going for the last-minute hammer onto Mint to save Devotary. Due to timing, this was obviously largely ineffective, but I don’t think it’s profitable to suspect Lotus at this point on the basis of that alone. If last-minute voting indicated eliminator behaviour, Devotary would have flipped evil. Maybe it’s an impermissible inflexibility in my reads, but I still can’t see Striker as evil. Lotus I’m inclined to trust, as she seems naturally set up for a mislynch, which means I’ve left room for two villagers in [Eternum, Vapor, Ashbringer, Mint, Straw, Truthwatcher]. Currently I’m leaning Eternum and one of Truthwatcher or Vapor, which is bad because that means in the world I’ve constructed (Elims Straw/Ash/Mint, which...makes a surprising amount of sense), we already have three votes placed on people who are, in my estimation, probably village, and one by a misguided villager who may not rejoin us. The only question is therefore which of the people in that pool I’d like lynched. I’m loath to divide the votes again, and am quite tired of unintentionally saving Mint, especially if she’s just going to use her survival to keep pushing my mislynch, so I’m keeping my vote where it is unless there’s a hitherto unforeseen pool of support for a Straw or Ash lynch and literally everybody currently on Mint or Lotus switches off. It also helps that she’s the person I feel by far the most discomfort towards. Whatever happens, we need to get the pool of votes down to two people or fewer, as if there’s a three-way contest, we’re handing the Eliminators a victory on a silver platter. Ultimately, that’s why I think Mint needs to finally die, as she appeared to be trying to do just that with her vote on me.
  22. Fifth Scholar
    Alright, a bit bleary and tired, but evidently we were wrong about Orlok putting in five Elims. I guess this cycle we really are definitely at LyLo, as 3/22 is too low even accounting for the absence of village power roles. I’m going to sleep but am putting a vote on Mint until I can re-examine both last cycle’s lynch, and my suspicions in general. Good night.
  23. Fifth Scholar
    Devotary of Spontaneity Frozen Mint We are literally begging for a hammer right now. @Eternum I see you viewing the thread. Is this a more acceptable vote for you? @Straw please no, we do not need another situation like C3 where the Elims would probably just hammer everyone viewing the thread right now needs to say something. I feel like half the players just have a hammer vote saved in the text editor and are waiting to push it
  24. Fifth Scholar
    There are way too storming many lynch targets. @Eternum, @TJ Shade, your single votes probably aren’t going anywhere. Please switch them? And agreed at the very least with Devotary that we need a more centralised lynch. This needs to clarify itself in the next ~3-4 minutes or we’re just asking for a hammer.
  25. Fifth Scholar
    Storms, I did not have the time to do the reread I wanted. Much quicker thoughts on the people I said I’d look into: Striker: I don’t see a world where Striker is evil from a reread of his posts; there’s too much genuine villager-searching-for answers in them. Evil!Striker tends to be either highly defensive or very clinical with his votes; I’ve seen neither of those from him, and am getting an overwhelmingly good tone read from him. If he’s the Elim who’s tricked me this whole time, he deserves a hearty round of applause after we lose this cycle or the next. This all means I have to cautiously assume Mint is evil. Of course, that places me in the rather uncomfortable position of having saved an eliminator who I’ve wanted dead since C3 twice, and potentially doing so again now by refusing to move my vote. Mint: After rereading (some of) her posts, I’m still unsure. On the one hand, I obviously don’t appreciate her accusations of me, which I feel don’t come from someone trying to honestly analyse the game, and she has been mostly quiet when she wasn’t defensive; on the other, the material she posts doesn’t seem to match with what an Elim would say, particularly one of Mint’s experience (as she has played before). I’m mostly struggling to interpret her vote on me this cycle, which came with no reasoning against one of the people instrumental in her survival—I think an Elim!Mint would pick a different target. Vapor/Ashbringer: I’m honestly pretty convinced that one, if not both, of these are eliminators who have successfully lain low the entire game. Ash has a slightly more “suspicious” voting record, ending up on a lot of the village trains, and if Mint is a villager, I’d be unsurprised if he was one of the Elims pushing for her mislynch this cycle. Unfortunately, I doubt there’s enough sentiment or evidence against either right now to bring them to a vote, but if we make it out of this cycle alive, they’d make good follow-up lynches. Straw: Making his way slowly into my list of potential Elims simply from a lack of alternatives. I feel Shade’s analysis of why he could be evil is fairly good, though it doesn’t give enough credit to the possibility of a village!Straw worried about bandwagoning, but what’s most disquieting to me is his dropoff in activity after C1/2, when we started having the closer lynches. While his LG is certainly to blame at least partially, I think it might also be a deliberate choice to avoid giving opinions as discussion heated up. Probably evil if Mint is as well. TJ Shade: Still my strongest village read after Striker. Has been giving actual analysis rather than speculation (kudos to you for that; I’ve sadly not done any real analysis since C2, mainly because of time). Is putting in genuine effort, even if I disagree with a few of his conclusions. In particular, I like his recent posts which rightfully pointed out how narrow we’d allowed our pool of suspects to shrink. Eternum: Overhauling him from strongly village to neutral. Shade’s analysis illustrated fairly well how he’d been essentially hopping between suspicions, seeming unwilling to consider certain players (particularly Straw), and the general use of motivated reasoning in his last few posts—he seems to have a conclusion in mind as to how he should vote and then find a way to get there, rather than looking at evidence and deciding his vote from there. On the other hand, the analysis he does have doesn’t necessarily seem flawed, so I’m not ruling him out as a paranoid villager disillusioned by the failure of the last few lynches. I feel like I’m getting there myself Think that’s everyone except Devotary. Honestly she’s still suspicious to me, and I’m not as sold as I was on Mint a cycle or two ago—I’d much rather kill Devo here, as Mint just seems too obvious and unopposed. But the alternative, it appears, is me, and I’ll vote for someone I presume to be village over someone I know is village. As such, Mint.
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