dionysus

Well I personally think it will go beyond that, as in fundamental philosophical differences. For example whatever ideal's Darkness' order has will be hard to reconcile with the Edgedancer ideals. He has true animosity to the ideals of that particular order. He thinks they worry about the unimportant things, and don't see the big picture to be precise. From a practical perspective it is going to be impossible to come up with 40 mutually exclusive ideals that don't conflict with each other. Mercy vs. justice for example. They are almost opposites. 10 orders of zealots whose very power derives from how zealous they are has to be a volatile arrangement.

I proposed this theory a month or two back, that First Ideal is not a power granting ideal for some of the same reasons you mention. Kaladin has his power and bond with Syl before he knows the First Ideal, and when he says it for the first time Brandon employs some sleight of phrasing to make it seem like he powered up but really he was just drawing in Stormlight. I think the First Ideal is simply a way to try to unify surgebinders, and the 2nd - 5th ideals are the ones tied to power enhancement. I even suspect that some of the ideals, under certain interpretations, will be contradictory to each other. Morality isn't black or white after all.

Interesting observations. My solution to the salt problem would be that the water does not drain towards the oceans like on earth, but towards the origin. Or at least the underground rivers. Now that theory has its own problem with water mass loss to highstorms over the oceans. My solution to this is that there is regular rainfall as well I believe. So water evaporating from the oceans and deposited as normal rainfall on the continent balances out the water loss of the highstorms as they pass over the oceans. Also the process of getting crem into the highstorms simply cannot be explained using just our understanding of earthly weather. The evaporation to condensation cycle is purifying as other posters have pointed out. But one thing I just realized is we are only looking at half of the equation of the highstorms. Where does all that air come from? I'd bet that at low altitudes we see the storms rushing away from the origin but at high altitudes we would see the air moving towards the origin to complete the mass balance.

I think it relates to the error in the measurement device. If the spren is measured to be 10cm +/-1 cm, the spren could fluctate between 9 and 11 cm. BS likes to base his magical systems on physics as much as possible, so psuedo physics if you will. Anyway, the behavior of spren when it comes to measuring them has a resemblance to the Copenhagen interpretation and Schrodinger's Cat in quantum mechanics. From wikipedia, "The Copenhagen interpretation implies that the state of the two systems collapses into a definite state when one of the systems is measured." In essence the flame spren is all size states at the same time until it is measured. Not much use in theorycrafting unless we have more information, but the science nerd in my thinks it is interesting.

Also Dalinar could be a unique case since he has received a boon and curse from the Nightwatcher. I also think it is wrong to assume that his memory loss is the curse and not the boon..

I used to be able to do a WoT book, for example, in about 12 hours. Now with 2 kids, one an infant, I'll be lucky to finish in a week.

Upvote for Alaxel as well. I tend to be a Categorical Imperative type of guy and despise utilitarian arguments, so Sanderson appeals to me in the morality of his works and SA takes it to the next level.. The Way of Kings (the in universe book written by Nohadon) seems very Kantian from what we know of it so far. The other reasons I like Sanderson have alot to do with how he avoids a lot of the things I dislike about other recent fantasy:. 1. Character Growth and Character Arcs - Probably my favorite thing about Sanderson, he does character growth well. His characters organically grow out of their pasts and the mistakes they make. They are not static. 2. Depiction of Morally Good Characters - His characters make mistakes and have personality flaws. So they are not perfect, but his protagonists, and especially in SA, are often without fundamental moral failings that seem so popular in modern literature. Kaladin never has a problem with his moral compass, his problems stem from depression, fear, and hopelessness. It just feels refreshing with something like ASOIAF so dominant and spawning so many copycats in the fantasy genre to read a character who is good, and succeeds because they are good. 3. Buildup-Climax-Resolution - Sanderson in my opinion does climaxes better than anyone. Kaladin rescuing dalinar, Kelsier fight in book 1 of Mistborn, etc. For that great climax there needs to be a satisfying buildup including foreshadowing and suspense, and that is what alot of other authors miss. A lot fo sword and sorcery authors can write a good battle scene, but when Sanderson gets to that climax it is better than just good writing and properly foreshadowed twists, it is the culmination of a masterful buildup and ties in to the culmination of the protagonists story arcs. When Kaladin says that 2nd ideal and kicks This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules, we have seen him training with the spear, building that relationship with Syl, overcoming his own hopelessness and fear of leadership, and discovering tidbits about the Radiants. It makes the climax that much better because it is not just the climax of the action, but also the completion of the moral code being discovered in the book, the completion of a satisfying story arc, etc. The Rithmatist is another good example of how the character story arcs come into play in the climax. 4. Main characters actually talk to each other. If the narrator tells us they are friends, they actually behave like friends. So much literature uses the interactions between the "good" guys to build suspense. So if you ignore what the author tells the reader is going on and actually look at how the characters behave toward each other, the relationship is more one of schoolyard rivals or even mortal enemies and not one of friendship. (WoT is an egregious example of this.) 5. Hopefully the cast of characters won't grow out of control.

Do we know yet how lighteyes are passed on? Can 2 lighteyes have a rare darkeye child? Does just 1 lighteyes parent ensure a lighteyes child? I definitely subscribe to the theory that all lighteyes are descended from shardbearers after the Recreance.

One counter argument to the idea that honorspren are lacking in intellect because of the splintering of Honor is when Wyndle talks about spren visiting his "mind" gardens. "A wonderful gardener! Cryptics and honorspen alike came to see the crystals I grew from the minds of your world. Now this. What have I become?” Admiring art, in this case a mind garden, seems to show pretty high cognitive functions for the honorspren. My pet theory is that Syl was somehow severed during the Recreance and was trapped in this realm, thus she lost a lot of her cognitive function. Edit. On a side note, I think in our theorycrafting we put too much stock into the splintering of Honor. Myself included. The intent of Honor is still present and is still powerful, there is just no godlike figure making up schemes. And even that is questionable, as Preservation shows that through the magic of future sight and other time spanning powers even a pretty much dead god can have schemes come to fruition.

The fact that Kaladin is branded with "dangerous" is just too perfect for Brandon to take those brands away. When Kaladin becomes an earthshaking full Windrunner it is going to be his signature feature known by all his enemies. The sight of a spear carrying person branded with "dangerous" is going to make his lesser enemies soil themselves on the battlefield.

Upon further reflection, Shen's behavior seems the most important thing in that chapter when it comes to our favorite activity of extrapolating small details into cosmere shaking theories. Two possibilities, the parshmen were never really compeltely mindless and it is just cultural prejudice, or Shen is developing as a result of his acceptance into Bridge 4. I must admit I have intentionally avoided reading the parshendi POV excerpts to save it for the glorious first read, so I could be behind on parshmen information.

Wheel of Time is really egregious. I don't want to talk about the stupidity of the protagonists. SA is not that bad. We see Navani, Adolin, Renarin, and Dalinar working together and sharing information. Same with whats-her-name sharing info with Shallan. Same with Kaladin and Bridge 4. Dalinar is a high prince and Kaladin is a heroic commoner he met 3 days ago, it makes perfect sense for them to build trust slowly. We all just are a little sensitive because this a common stupidity seen in high fantasy.

I've so missed a Kaladin viewpoint. In terms of character growth maybe this book will be more about learning to trust others. In terms of potential cosmer/magic system stuff, is this the first time Syl has been so humanlike? Wasn't she pretty human like when Kaladin was out in the highstorm but otherwise not. Is she going to end up being a fairy perched on his shoulder 24/7 as the bond progresses?

I just hope people believe him and he shares what he knows. No one sharing information and no one believing each other in the face of world ending conflict got old in Wheel of Time.

I guess we are using antihero by its strict definition and not the Hollywood cliche version which is a guy with superficially bad traits but a heart of gold. In terms of character growth, Adolin is up there with Dalinar and Kaladin in Way of Kings. Moreover, it is all in the right direction. By that I mean he is becoming more honorable and more restrained in his passions. He is also learning to be a leader. I find it unlikely for him to end up an antihero given his current trajectory. But then again we have a lot more books to go and the situations for all these characters will change multiple times I am sure. I partially share the sentiments of Gloom when it comes to Renarin. Going by just what is in WoK, Renarin isn't a central character. Putting on my literary analysis hat, the central purpose of Renarin in the story is to aggrandize Dalinar and Adolin and show certain positive character traits in the same. Renarin represents what the Alethi culture considers weak, and a central theme of the character growth of Adolin and Dalinar is the struggle to discard some of the negative aspects of Alethi culture. So by being protective and caring towards Renarin they are showing the reader that they have inherent goodness above and even in opposition to the culture they were raised in. The final gift of the plate to Renarin is almost a perfect symbol for Dalinar's growth. In this act, he is symbolic discarding what Alethi culture holds as the most valuable thing in the world, and giving this "valuable" thing to what Alethi culture says is worthless. (The symbolism and meaning is almost identical for the blade trade for the bridgemen.) He plays a few other minor roles in the story, but going just by the WoK I feel I have summed up the main reason the character Renarin exists.

Thinking rare events are impossible is a problem with human cognitive bias. It is why people seem shocked when 100 year events happen all the time, even in your hometown every few years. (It is a once in a 100 year event for that particular event at that particular location, not any 100 year event worldwide.) So even if losing a shardblade is a once in a 1000 year event, over a 1000 years you would lose approximately 63% of the shardblades. The key is that each shardblade has a .1% chance of being lost each year, not the whole group of shardblades has a .1% chance. We can argue all we want about what the probability of losing a shardblade is, but even if we go for one chance in 2000 years you are still going to lose a lot over the timeframes we are talking here.

That is what I was getting at even though I hadn't seen that thread. We haven't had the intent of Cultivation explained yet, nor really Honor for that matter, but just going by the definitions of the words they would seem to be neutral to each other. It was the personal motivations of the shardholders that might have brought about an alliance if that is what there was. Could be logical, could be emotional, but separate from any inherent intent of the shards themselves.

Don't we have a WoB or something that a shardholder will eventually have to follow the intent of the shard? Cultivation in my mind doesn't share much in common with Honor, so it seems to me to go along with the OPs theory that it was the shardholder, and not the intent of the shard itself, that aligned with Honor and opposed Odium. Though the shardholder would have also have had to do it in a way that promotes the intent of the shard. So now with the shardholder of Honor gone, Cultivation is abandoning that shardholder alliance and just behaving according to the intent of the shard. Just some random thoughts along the lines of the OP.

I think it fits a good bit of evidence that the Parshendi are native and also heavily influenced by Honor. I think it also seems likely that humans are not native, as they don't seem very well adapted to Roshar. However, we really don't have evidence one way or another. I think ultimately it is going to be a complex situation. There will be Parshendi heros and villians, and human heros and villains. Nor will Honor turn out be the same thing as a purely benevolent and perfect force. Honor isn't exacly a synonym for goodness after all. For example, a decent argument could be made that the assassination of Gavilar was done honorably, but still be immoral.

This was my assumption as well. The constables were just local peacekeepers. Darkness was able to be "badged" as a local law enforcement agent through his connections/magical powers/whatever. He is very law abiding, he just uses the letter of the law to find loopholes in the intent of the law, hence the execution of a petty thief.

Facepalm. I am an idiot.

First, I prefer the name Gardenspren because Wyndle calls himself a gardener. “What has become of me?” Wyndle asked. “Thieving in the night, chased by abominations. I was a gardener. A wonderful gardener! Cryptics and honorspen alike came to see the crystals I grew from the minds of your world. Now this. What have I become?” Second, notice the separation of Cryptics from honorspren. It is a reach but Cryptics might not be honorspren. (Goes along with my thread about how perhaps the latter 4 surgebinder ideals for some orders might not really align with Honor or each other. First Ideal was an attempt to unify Surgebinders into a common cause, but is not actually a Surgebinder ideal they all share in common.) Edit. Edited out some stupidity on my part.

The fact that Taravingian wants to kill Dalinar does not speak highly of his goals to save mankind. Even before Dalinar's recent conversion, he was the most fightening war leader in the most powerful nation. He pretty much won the unification wars for his brother. Everyone is afraid of the Blackthorn. He is exactly the type of person one would want as a general in the coming Desolation. Then, it also seems like Taravingian is quite current with the goings on in the Alethi war camp and the state of mind of Dalinar, which speaks even more poorly of his judgement. No, Taravingian is justifying his personal ambitions for his cabal by claiming it is for the greater good. But when actual strong leaders start emerging that are capable, he wants to kill them too.

The KRs were not a monolithic organization of do-gooders First, what I am going to propose relies on the following unproven theories that seem to have some weight. Darkness is Nalan Nalan, as herald of the order with the attributes of justice and confidence, has these as dominant character traits. In some limited ways, how he behaves can be used to understand the ideals of his KR order. Surgebinding is tied to the profession of the ideals related to that surge Second, in the real world there is not one universally accepted morality system. And ideals taken to the extreme without temperance can be as bad as unethical behavior. What is justice without mercy? If I accidentally kill someone because of reckless driving, pure justice might demand I be killed myself. On the other hand too much mercy is just a slap on the wrist for any harm caused. Or look at some character traits, is someone who has to be a leader no matter what someone you want to work with? What about someone who only is obedient and never shows any initiative? In general, being well rounded is considered desirable. One who can be both a leader and a follower as the situation demands, one who seeks to do justice but tempers it with mercy, etc. Now for the world of Roshar I propose something similar, that different surgebinders would come into conflict with other orders of surgebinders as their own morality systems collide. Darkness clearly looks upon the Edgedancers with disdain, and it seems to be because he finds there ideals to be trivial. A waste of their potential. Might not the orders have similar conflicts stemming from the competing priorities of different ideals? Surgebinding Ideals vs the First Ideal 1. The first ideal seems to have its root in “The Way of Kings.” 2. Surgebinders existed before “The Way of Kings” was written. See the Dalinar’s Nohadon vision. 3. Using Kaladin as primary evidence, the only noticeable power-up occurs when he speaks the 2nd ideal, not the first. I realize that there is a scene in the book where Kaladin says the First Ideal and then inhales stormlight. (Sorry, don’t have the book with me.) However I think this is intentionally misleading as I believe Kaladin had already shown he was “inhaling” stormlight because spheres all around him had been going dun for a while. 4. The First Ideal is really 3 ideals. Doesn’t make much sense. So from this meager evidence I posit the following, that the latter 4 ideals of each KR order are surgebinding power-up ideals. The first ideal is actually an attempt to unify the 10 types of surgebinders under one banner and marching with one goal. It has no relation to the actual magical powers of the orders. Now if this is true it leads to some interesting speculation. It could mean the unity of the KRs was not something enforced by the magical system itself. What I mean is that if the First Ideal were tied to surgebinding, one could not ignore the First Ideal without diminishing one’s power. But if it was just a regular oath, well we know how good regular oaths work in the real world.

Are all Spren of Honor? Where is this confirmed? It seems pretty clear that Wyndle is from Cultivation and maybe also Honor. I recall a WoB that said something about spren that can be from both Cultivation and Honor, but don't recall if all spren have to be both.