Ailvara

Thank you for all feedback, it makes me feel so much better about being way too invested in the life of fictional characters I guess that would be great, or in a few pages, newcomers will be as confused as ever. I was thinking about shutting it tomorrow, but I guess I can leave it open longer and make more backups in the meantime. Even once I close it, it'll still be open to comments and then I can copy-paste them I never really considered writing to Brandon, because before joining the forums I didn't even know it was possible! So I don't know exactly is this is the sort of stuff people send him, but if he would like to read it, wow, it'd be awesome.

We need to add to the mix also descendants of the people who claimed Shardblades post-Recreance.

Ok, guys, the summary is more or less done! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VqLjiUojkPqIfLJLyu7OnykTP3i-LG0f5f1KjRSJE6A/edit?usp=sharing I'll leave it in "everybody can edit" mode for now in case I overlooked something important or you have a quote to add! I'll probably later change it to "anybody can comment" so that we don't get attacked by any trolls. It needs some polishing, but like I said, it's not an essay, but a note. Also, I kind of concentrated on the topics that I felt were more in line with the main topic, overlooking mostly the discussion f.ex. on Shallan becoming a mother or deep analysis of Adolin's character. If you disagree with this approach, please feel free to add or rephrase anything. I think that @DimChatz summary would work well as the introduction, for example, but I won't go as far with copying other people's posts, unless you want to include it Anyway, this is wholly a group work, I only summarize because I'm a notes freak.

If it's RAFO'd that's the answer @DimChatz I've been thinking on making a summary for a while, but for some reason, I didn't feel like diving again into all our issues and feelings regarding this particular resolution... Now that's done you inspired me to make a summary of our theories, observations regarding foreshadowings etc I'm not much an essay person, it'll be in the form of notes. It's already 9 pages, I aimed for much shorter, but with the quotes... I'll post it in a few hours I think.

Thanks! I'd give you one, but, you know...

I like it (but ran out of upvotes - I should put it in my signature...)! Resonates perfectly both with "I am Law" and her identity issues. I also hope, that her current arc is not all about embracing her 4th Truth, but also about progressing to the 5th one, so that would cover it.

I just saw this on my fb feed and laughed. They even accidentally got the hair right.

I think my first one like this was Harry Potter It seemed to take so much time, and now it's been so much time since it's over... I grew up with Harry Potter, but with Stormlight Archive I'll grow old. It's funny now that I think of it. It might be the most certain thing I know about my such distant future.

I'm now not sure if I understood the quote correctly. I assumed, that he was talking about four different characters, but maybe he just corrected himself, speaking about only Ash and Taln after all. STILL, next five books being "all about heralds" when we have two POVs from them?? I don't buy it. I hope/think, that the POVs from current books will stay with us, even without flashbacks (do we maybe have any WoB on that?), and making them those near-divinities who come and help when needed is quite perfect. Aand I don't see Brandon missing on this opportunity since he likes turning his characters into gods so much So, the most plausible scenario is I think:

Actually, it has been discussed in another topic at some point. Good ship, I think my favourite one after Shalladin And she has some neatly different abilities. But I don't see it happening, just my gut feeling. I was also going to write about how many Hesina-like qualities would be perfect for Kaladin! Smart and educated, supportive, caring, challenging, patient, open-minded... Nothing too exciting, but solid. In the topic of Rysn, I just found this quote looking for something else entirely, and I think it can be relevant: So does it mean, that she'll never be a prominent character? I think this is only about WoK, otherwise he would have to exclude Lift as well, but still, I think Rysn is set to remain an interlude character.

These are Lift, Taln, Shalash, Renarin and Jasnah as far as I remember? So two of these are definitely Heralds... Though may also not be ones anymore by the end of book 5, but still identifying as such (which seems more plausible than two of the other three suddenly going delusional). Is that a huge spoiler he gave us there, or am I reading too much to it? I've been pro new Heralds theory anyway, but... Wow.

He stated somewhere, that he'll start writing somewhere between autumn 2018/spring 2019 and it'll take two years from there. It really freaks me out, that we won't even get a chapter for so long...

Hah, so many topics on Kaladin's love life. If he was supposed to stay forever alone, what would we be even talking about? Seeing the beginning of this topic, I expected more of a discussion on what his romantic interest should be like, not who exactly would that be (we've discussed everyone I think), so I'll try to get back to that. Quite a lot of people would like to see him with a fighter girl. I agree she needs to be badass, but I'd really hate to see someone military oriented and, well, simply too similar to him - especially another windrunner (dating your captain, nah, so-so). It'd be so much more interesting to see a character with completely different powers that save the day when his are not applicable, so that they could complement each other. Also, I don't think Kaladin would be attracted to a killer, even if he accepts himself as one. Apart from his apparent thing for Lightweavers, I would see him maybe with an Elsecaller or Edgedancer type. And I hope for a lighteyes. He's not conveniently escaping his prejudices, not on my watch.

I suppose that I (and the link) simply meant love as only the final stage of what you call love. Infatuation can be the first stage of something more, but it's not like I will instantly tell a guy that I have a crush on that I love him, even if eventually I will, so that's how I differentiate it instinctively. Exactly, that's why it amused me that Bradon expressed himself in a way that suggested he sees even more to Shalladin than we do (and to Shadolin as well, but let's ignore that).

I meant infatuation as a shallow and mostly physical desire that will go away on its own in contrast to love as a much deeper affection related to actually caring about the other person. I'm no psychologist, I guess this sums it up better than I could: https://www.diffen.com/difference/Infatuation_vs_Love Haha, uninspiringly short posts are at least quick I wouldn't mind it at all - Kaladin being the subject of her last Truth doesn't mean, that her speaking it would be in any way his contribution. It's still up to Shallan to work this out and he might not even know until after the fact. It's not like she relied on her parents speaking the first two Truths either.

He is happy with what he's written (so far), but I don't see anything here about it being done with for the future books... ...especially since he actually stated, that part of Shallan is in love with Kaladin and not just confused/shallowly infatuated - which is more than I would say being a die-hard Shalladin shipper

Kaladin has had his share of struggling with the 4th Ideal in OB and I don't see Brandon stretching it further than book 4. A caring partner would be cool, but he has Syl, bridge 4, his family, and his own strength, so he'll be alright and be an awesome Radiant. I don't get why you assume he would be the only new Herald. The old ones are mostly not good for anything anymore and I don't see Kaladin becoming Taln 2.0 - there are a few other characters that are well suited for the job and won't dodge the responsibility if it comes to that. It would serve neither the story nor character development to treat Kaladin as a special snowflake in this case. If someone gets send to Damnation for those 15 years, my bet is on the whole Dalinar's Ten in Thaylen. Shallan is an obvious candidate for the Ash LW replacement - the only one, in fact. @GameOfGroans, @LinkasZelda always happy to welcome new crewmates. "Sailing before landing". I know. I probably would have reluctantly settled on this if that was the only option other than "it's over, trolled you guys". But now that I have some hope there's more to come, I'd rather see it go on properly. Stupid hope. If he did change his mind in the middle, he had plenty of time to withdraw all Shalladin from OB and be done with it - it's not like it would hurt the plot in any way. So either we misunderstood him from the start or he's not done. I obviously hope for the second option. Shallan really likes her mysteries, doesn't she? Even when there's no need for one. How healthy, especially in her case. I may not like our Skybreakers, but I'm not sure if I wish any of them to get into such pile of femme fatale Shallan crem... Why do I wish this upon Kaladin then? Stupid emotions.

Actually, the 4th Ideal is (most probably) about how he cannot protect everyone, so I don't think we'll go there. Anyway, if that was the case, I think Brandon would have already killed off Kaladin's family instead of additionally giving him a baby brother to worry about. And if we'll have new heralds at the end of book 5, Shallan is likely to be one as well, and Adolin is not, which actually fits with my theory on all this.

I'm really looking forward to learning more about Willshapers. Their strive for novelty and adventure resonates with me perfectly, even in the absence of more details about the order. Although, since they are supposed to be quite individualistic and varied, I suppose it's not too hard to fit into them.

Ooo, this. I have real trouble comprehending the amount of misdirection given here. What bothers me even more is that the subversion interpretation puts Kaladin in shoes of a bad boy, which is so unfair. If I had to pick a "bad one" out of this triangle, it would be Shallan... Also, I'm worried that sinking Shalladin would end up with setting up some pretty random last-minute love interest for Kaladin, something like Spook's storyline in HoA; the only alternative is leaving him alone (and I'm with Syl on this one). He's one of the main characters, he deserves more than being a tool in Shallan's arc.

"I'll make a man out of you" for Kaladin getting bridge 4 in shape! Someone should record these. I mean to try, but maybe someone more talented will

My idea on how the ships will be reconciled: One of the key arguments against Shalladin is that they are too broken for each other. While this is true, what are the chances, that this will remain the case until the end of the story? And what will remain to stand in the way of this relationship once they figure out their issues? Except for Adolin - but if he's not going dark, I can't help but see him as a natural choice to kill off, as it would both be heartbreaking and not impede the story. I've said it before and I'll repeat again: somebody has to die before this is all over, and there are few more likely candidates than Adolin. Another thing is, that the triangle got loads of space with a relatively debatable resolution - compare it to Wax and Marasi, or Vin and Zane, the reasoning was clearer, quicker and more definite. Just the existence of this topic is a proof, that it wasn't cut clearly enough, and we've seen, that Brandon is capable of doing that when he wants to. Brandon also said, that he wanted to show how Shallan could love two men. This is almost a deal-breaker for me. Shallan doesn't love Kaladin in OB. So, what I think this leads us to, is that it's something we are yet to see, and she will love them both, but not necessarily at the same time. Putting it all together, what I think is happening here, is that the person Shallan is now is rightly paired with Adolin and will remain so for a time. We can argue if they'll destroy each other, or help each other grow, but both cases would probably be good for the story. And the person that Shallan may, and will eventually become, would be well matched with a similarly progressed Kaladin later in the story. Once they are both more capable of sustaining a relationship and once the literary potential between her and Adolin burns out, I think we'll see a story of a woman who was in two meaningful relationships in her life, each of them being what she needed at a particular stage of her development.

Just give cents from me. If we assume, that Shallan is relatively herself at the end of OB, she seems well paired with Adolin. But if we assume, that 2/3 of her are not completely on board with all this, it's only Shallan persona who is happy and it doesn't look very well for post-reintegration future. So I don't know, if that's the key deal-breaker here, is anyone here who doesn't fall into these lines of thinking?

Valid point. However, we have three years of waiting ahead of us, so we might as well live the story the way we want during this time and strategically crush our expectations a few months before SA4. I wouldn't say he is a sociopath either. On the contrary, he does what many people would do given the same circumstances. However, I have a question for you. The way Moash wants justice for his grandparents and to free Alethkar of a bad king - how different is it really from what Adolin does to Sadeas? On the level of outcomes, these are both valid choices (at least at first - until you consider all the mess with Amaram, Sadeas troops and the Thrill) - they just stand in opposition to the "journey before destination" moral implications. In the reality of SA - end of the world, hard decisions and all that jazz - being a good person is not always about not being a complete baddie. Sometimes it is about being exceptionally strong in unfair situations, that would make an evil person from an average, or even above-average one (even paladin-Kaladin is so close to falling down this path after all). So, if Adolin turns evil, I wouldn't see it as a manifestation of his overwhelming internal darkness, but a consequence of facing too many challenges and moral confusion, that wouldn't end well for many normal, good people. As for the second part, I really hope, that this relationship is going to backfire. Dalinar hasn't had enough problems yet, has he? While Adolin feels no guilt partly because of his loyalty, I can completely see him starting to question it after he learns of Dalinar and Evi. And then, to question himself and the murder as a natural consequence. Usually, I would expect to see the seeds of conflicts for the next book more clearly at the end of the preceding one. However, Brandon seems to make the books more contained - I'm talking especially about Mistborn1-Mitsborn2 and Shallan's fracturing being nonexistent in WoR, though influenced by it. Adolin is SO Mr Bingley (Wickham has some hints as well, but that would be unfair). We need a Jane. The Darcy part breaks my heart. So that makes at least three of us. I'm currently having trouble recalling reading anything more romantically intense. Aaand, that makes at least two of us (my focus isn't Adolin, but I'm always happy to find validation for my daydreaming). Thank you, I'm so glad you liked it!!!

I had way too much time in the evening, so I wrote my supershort take on How It Should Have Ended. Feel free to mock my grammar or anything, this is therapeutical and purposefully Shalladin-less. http://archiveofourown.org/works/12935616 There is a fantastic case made earlier in this thread, that this reflects Navani/Dalinar/Evi. Also, the "I will eventually answer that" gives me hope, that he didn't mean "next book kind of soon".