NotBurtReynolds

Those are some seriously great connections that I had in no way considered. Thank you!

I have a question about Ahu...That is, how Jezrien got to be Ahu, crazy drunkard. We're pretty confident all the Heralds have went crazy in different ways, just as a side-effect of being alive for that long/being tortured that much. Is Jezrien so much worse(presumably) than the other Heralds because of some specific event(UnMade battle/Shard interaction, etc) that snapped his sanity for good? Or is it more likely that he gave up his sanity faster/harder relative to the other Heralds because of an accumulation of different mental stresses that he would take harder given his likely personality. Which is to say, I think we can imagine how he would deal with his decisions pretty accurately just by imagining how Kaladin(a character we know well and is a seemingly fellow paragon of all things Windrunner) would take them. And that makes me think that while Taln may have been the Herald who never broke, Jezrien was probably 2nd place in that department, if he's anything like Kal. And I also imagine that the guilt of abandoning Taln would hit Jezrien the hardest...And as the hundreds of years piled up without Taln breaking, I could see how that guilt would eventually permanently break Jezrien, just as I could see it breaking Kaladin. I suspect it's more of the accumulated torture time and super-mega-guilt that did his mind in, but the more exciting answer would be some sort of UnMade Battle Royale

This has always bothered me! Every time I start thinking about how great Adolin and his arc is I think, “ but he’s born under the sign of nine! Can I trust you?” And what if somewhere along the way Shallan breaks Adolin by betraying him with Kaladin? To be clear, I don’t want this to happen to our sweet Adolin...Im just saying it perks my ears up;)

I took the first quote as a bribe to get the cryptic to come out. I took the second one more as some flippant Hoid-ness , rather than an actual oath. But, its probably just picking nits.

Do we know he bonded the Cryptic? Because I was thinking that he had(so far) just convinced the lil' Cryptic to come out of hiding and come with him to escape. But man, I'd love to hear the Truths that Hoid would have to speak to make it happen

I'm speaking of the scene we're going to see from her POV in her book. The last moments of Eshonai, as it were, from her eyes. I don't recall Kal's from WoK, but we got major information from Shallan's last flashback scene and much, much more from Dalinar's. I just think that the time period between her battle with Adolin and Venli finding her corpse is going to be very revelatory, given what we've gotten previously from the flashback chapters. Maybe not, though. Maybe it's as straightforward as Eshonai drowned before she could actually bond Timbre, a la Elhokar, and Timbre hid just like his Cryptic did. Or maybe it's something else. And with Brandon, I tend to err on/wish for, the 'something else'

I'm not saying Timbre is Eshonai...Like I said, no theory, no guess. I'm only saying that I think it's something more spectacular than "Timbre's a regular Knightspren who was hiding underneath Eshonai". That's all I'm trying to say.

Okay, well I think you missed the point of my post. Wasn't trying to come up with a definite answer, because I don't have one. And, I've been reading that thread, interesting stuff, but not what I wanted to discuss. I just wanted to have a mention my thoughts about how flashback character arcs have been written and how they may be written in the future, without getting into all the specific mechanics of what can and cannot happen Realmatically. Thank you for shooting me down so succinctly.

I didn't put my post in that thread because its a bunch of theorizing. As I mentioned, I don't have a theory(the title was a joke). Just a had a feeling I wanted to voice, given how the other books have been structured.

Now I know there has been tons of discussions and well-reasoned arguments as it relates to if Timbre is somehow Eshonai, or is just a 'regular' Radiantspren, or something else entirely. I believe Timbre has to either be Eshonai or be the result of something equally spectacular. And I have no evidence to support it . My only "evidence" is the way we seen flashbacks move narratively. We're going to have an Eshonai book. We know she ends up dead in a chasm. After what we've seen revealed in the final flashback scenes of Shallan and Davilar, I find it hard to believe that Eshonai's last scene is just going to be her drowning, without something spectacular happening. Spectacular as in Eshonai somehow ends ups turned into Timbre..Or combined with Timbre...Or something else I don't understand the mechanics of But it has to be something more major than, 'Eshonai drowns somehow, Timbre hides underneath her'.

Isn't he telling us here that Half-Shards are powered by trapped Knight spren? Or am I taking that too literally? If it is the case, which order might it be? The ones we definitely know(honorspren, highspren, inkspren, cultivationspren, cryptics, Greatspren) don't seem to fit that description to me. And neither do the ones we might/kinda know(ashspren, Glys). I've read theories that lightspren might be the spren of Willshapers or it might be Timbre, but they don't sound like they give things substance and hold the world together. That just leaves the spren of Stonewards. I've found no theories to what their spren might be( and I certainly don't have one;) but the idea that the Stonewards bonded the type of spren that gives things substance and holds the world together, appeals to me.

I may have used this subject on my personalization when I bought the Dragonsteel Well of Ascension this morning

Ordered! Can' wait for January!

Does anyone else love that Ki the Skybreakers spren is named Winnow? It’s a word I’ve always really liked and it just seems the perfect name for a Skybreaker spren.

Like I said, the answer may be "Rock is really strong", I just find that boring. We're dealing with a secretive character whose been foreshadowed as a person who is very special and in particular has been foreshadowed to have a very different relationship with spren, then we've seen from other races. Who uses a weapon that has only been ever been able to be used with the assistance of magic. Sure it could be probably be lashing or strength or whatever. Or, it could be something new and interesting...Which is the camp I default to with Sanderson. All hail, King Lunamor

I think it serves to show some comeuppance for Shelar but mostly as an introduction to the Herdazians(that’s not The Lopen;) but more as an introduction to the General that cannot be contained...Budding Edgedancer, anyone?

I’m not taking it as fact but I’ve got to make some assumptions if I want think about Rocks future..and I think the sons proffessions are a decent bet to be right. Horneaters aren’t a secret society, so I feel like some basic knowledge about their hierarchies are known and thereby silly to lie about.

I think passages linking Rock to unusual strength, were just Sanderson red-herrings.. He kept leading us to believe that being strong was natural for a Horneater. He showed us feats of strength(like picking up a giant rock) not possible by "normal" folk, but they weren't "impossible" feats...Horneaters may be unusually strong compared to other Rosharns, but I find it hard to believe that Horneaters are so strong that they can accurately use a weapon that is designed for, and has only ever been used by, someone wearing magical(likely spren-aided) armor. If the answer is "Horneaters are just really strong", I'm probably going to be disappointed.

So, if Stormlight doesn't vastly improve strength then I think Rock being able to shoot it accurately, twice, can only be explained by so many things: 1. Rock is not just strong, or unnaturally strong; he is the strongest man on Roshar. I find this hard to believe. 2. Rock is aided by something or someone unknown and unseen. Now, I think it has to be #2 but what is he aided by? I don't think he's bonded an honorspren, but I wouldn't be surprised if he is(and has been since we've seen him) already bonded to an unknown spren. But I actually think it is less of a 'traditional' bond but more of a symbiotic relationship that Horneaters have with spren, a la' greatshells, Ryshadiums, and the like that grants extra strength and other abilities. Maybe it's all Horneaters, or maybe Rock's bloodline makes him extra special(I'm inclined to the latter) but I think Rock has a deeper relationship with spren, then he wants to admit. Not because he's unnaturally secretive, but because if true, it's likely one of the great secrets of Horneaters..You know? The one you don't tell anyone. Ever. I think spren-symbiosis could go a long way towards explaining the weird 'spren-things' around Rock. And Rock is certainly a man of secrets: I think the lies he has been telling them, is everything he's ever told them about spren and his abilities with them. I can't wait to my next reread so I can go through Rock's parts, looking for lies

I believe that he is depressed at breaking his vow, but I think what he is feeling most is resignation. I've actually been working on my own Rock theory, but this thread'll do just fine for some Rock-ramblin' Rock is so crushed because of his act of violence, but more so because of the consequences of what he has done... All hail King Numuhukumakiaki'aialunamor So about Nuatoma's..We know they're clan leaders and that there is at least 1 per peak. I think that their is one per peak..One dominant clan, that is. And that is Rock's family. So here's the confusing stuff(for me anyways): 1st and 2nd sons= food providers 3rd Son= Craftman 4th son and on= Soldiers So, we have Rock the 4th son go along with Kef'ha, his brother and Nuatoma. But which brother is Kef'ha? It has to be an older brother or it wouldn't have moved Rock up a spot. But how can sons who are the food-providers/craftsmen also be Nuatoma? That part doesn't make sense to me yet, but we do know that Horneater lore says the first Nuatoma to obtains a Shardblade wil become king of the Horneaters and unite the Peaks. Rock has won himself a Shardblade after the Amaram arrow-face maneuver. So I think Rock's depression/sadness is driven by all of the following 1. I have used a weapon in violence, breaking my vow. 2. I am the first Horneater to win Shards 3. Oh crap, I think I'm King now See, I think that OB was letting us know that Rock is more of a major character. He is now (possibly/at least in the discussion)King of an area that seems to be super-important to the larger story, especially I think for book 4, given the following: It's (likely)home to Cultivation's perpendicularity which is likely under assault by an UnMade, given the information we get in Shademar about it being a no-go zone, and this from Rock's wife Sounds to me like there be an UnMade up in thar peaks The Horneaters are a mixed race that can possibly hear Listener Rhythms and have a relationship with spren that is unique on Roshar(as far as we know so far) I think book 4 is going to be a whole lot of Horneater because I think Rock will believe himself forced to go home given the Shard-situation he now has..Especially if you believe there is something 'extra special' to Rock's particular bloodline and that he is now their Nuatoma...with Shards. And I'm sure once notes are compared with Shallan about perpendicularity 'wrongness', that going to the Peaks on an UnMade hunt, is going to be a thing..At least I hope so , because I think once we get to the Peaks narratively, we are going to get an large info-dump about spren and Cultivation..But maybe thats just me

Also, I think we're going to see a lot of Ghostbloods v. Sons Honor/The Church, as Im starting to think that opposition of the Vorin Church is the main goal of the Ghostbloods.

After further thought, I've realized I was being shortsighted...I thought the SoH would be left without much to do, narratively speaking, but I was focusing too much on their goals of returning the Voidbringers and the Heralds. But they were doing that to restore the power of the Vorin Church and that's what I lost sight of. The Church will certainly have reactions to the events of OB and I could see SoH as their militaristic arm, giving them plenty to do Maybe its Restares at their head, maybe we see someone like Kadash either being recruited to them or already being a part of them. I definitely wouldn't be surprised if at some point we find out there's a secret Herald in the upper levels of the Church. For whatever the reason ends up being, there's likely a faction of the Church who wishes to return to the Hierocracy and it would make total sense for the SoH to be their avatar going forward. It makes so much sense, that I wish to delete my previous post but I will leave it up and let the shamespren teach me a lesson

Just in case you wanted it

I just kind of figured that they had their time and served their purpose so now they'll drift on out of the plot. It seems to me that the story has outgrown the need for them...Of course, I'm probably totally wrong and they'll end up being a driving force in Book 4

Yea, I was excited at that part as well. And then, nada I see it as just another breadcrumb reminder that the Sleepless are very important and possibly anywhere and everywhere. I think that their arc and place in Stormlight is going to be given to us in tiny drips that will drive us all insane with anticipation.