mariapapadia

I would agree Veil is more of a tool, because she uses that persona when she needs to infiltrate, but the way Radiant was presented/introduced, seemed more like avoiding an uncomfortable truth. And if is so easy for her to just switch between these characters she creates for herself she could avoid it for as long as she wants. Which I think a lot of us consider is not such a healthy way to solve the problems.

haha! true, but I feel like I'm more invested in this and the Mistborn ones where giving out more general information, not only justifications

Also, the epigraphs got me really annoyed this week. It feels like whoever is writing the book is dragging things and finding so many excuses, that no actual point is being made. 15 chapters into the book and we're nowhere close to learn something about the author

The begining of Shallan's panic attack and the fact she is spreading herself thin over so many personas worries me. It might sound wierd, but it reminded me of what Voldemort was doing, spliting his soul. I think part of her next truths will have to do with accepting who she really is. Also it feels a bit like the calm before the storm with Adolin and Shallan. I enjoyed their interactions, but I felt everything was screaming that something bad is going to happen Or maybe they just had some nice moments and I am reading too much into it. Pattern is hands down my favourite character He's just so funny and precious and willing to die for Shallan that it worries me what is going to happen with him. Pattern and Syl sound like they would be really good study partners, as they are interested in the same topics

Hahah! Thank you, this made me feel better. I'm always worried not to come across too stubborn or that I am beating a dead horse

hmmm..Ok! I get what you are saying. I just didn't see the logic in directing all their resources into one direction( that being opening the gate in Kholinar). I suppose it would have more chances to work, but for me it seemed Dalinar wasn't considering Kholinar a priority before Elhokar insisting that he wants to go there. I guess Kaladin would need someone more familiar with the city and how things work around there. Maybe I'm over analysing things at this point

I agree it still doesn't make sense to give the blade to Elhokar. Granted, he proved himself to be more mature and selfaware than I would've given him credit for, but he still has a lot more growing to do. Especially now that he at least appears to accept Dalinar as the ruler, Dalinar has no reason to try and comfort him for taking the lead. I think this shows that Dalinar is more aware of what role the Blade could play. I'm not sure Elhokar is going with Kaladin yet though.. He wants to, but how will he get out of Urithiru? The only way that I see that happening is if he would have the blade and the Windrunner's powers. If that is the case, seems pretty pointless to send 2 people with the same abilities in the same place, when one could easily go to another city and try open one of the other gates. I'm not saying that Elhokar couldn't get the Blade, but if he does it makes more sense for him to go on a mission of his own which I am not sure he's ready for yet ( even he doesn't really think so ).

hei... here's a crazy idea. I was thinking at the black sphere Gavilar showed Eshonai in the prologue , the same one Szeth took and hid in Jah Keved after he killed the king (if i remember right ). Could this be something along the lines of a sphere with Stormlight for a KR, but for Odium's champion? Or related to him somehow? I don't know if there have been any off-book informations about that sphere. Maybe I'm just fishing

Yeah, that crossed my mind given the disscusions last week, but I didn't follow that close to see if this would fit or not. I guess every baby/child will trigger some sort of attention now

I was thinking.. maybe Elhokar's son will play a role in the second part of the series? The only reason I'm considering this is that babies go together There are already 2 ( him and Kaladin's brother ) so maybe the next generation is hinted. Also I don't think the baby is dead, what would be the point of mentioning and never show him ? My guess is we'll most likely see him in this book

YESSS!! I got the same feeling, but then saw that wierd things are happening with the parshmen all over the world, so I dropped it.. I guess Dalinar was thinking more in the lines that Kaladin is the only one that can get places right now thanks to him being a Windrunner. He didn't mention Shallan either and she has a blade. So.. Hahahha ! This really made me laugh I am the slowest reader so when I come here everything is pretty much said Elhokar is becoming a character that I really enjoy even though I started the series with a lot of annoyance towards him. He keeps surprising me and I like were this is going. At least we have confirmation that Dalinar has the blade. I am glad he also understands the importance of it and if he's going to give it to Elhokar, I think it will be because he shows something promising and not to temper his whims. He still doesn't feel like the right person for me though.. but I'm in for la Kaladin/Elhokar bromance/adventure. His child like enthusiasm got to me. Also did anyone else got the feeling that each week we get a direct reply to something everyone debates on? Last week was the spanreed, this week Renarin ..

YESS! When I saw this thread, the first thing that came to mind was Luke Pasqualino. He's actually the person I casted for Kaladin in my mind, when I was reading the books

I think we might be focusing too much only on the few chapters we've seen so far ? We only saw 3 chapters from Dalinar's perspective before the second murder, so I don't think everyone forgot about it, but there were other things happening so maybe that's why the murder investigation didn't get covered more. I also don;t think that the motive and the killer are completly unrelated to the identity of the victim, otherwise why would it refer to the victim by his name and not just " a soldier " from Sebarial's army ? I belive there might be a more complex plot, so this is why I would base my guess on "Others". While some arguments might be plausible in Ialai's favor, it feels a little too obvious and .. maybe not that exciting for the story ? I realise these are not enough motives to dismiss Ialai, but most of the evidence pointing to her is circumstantial. But in all fairness so it is for everyone else.

Yes, but the blade is not only a blade. That's the thing. It almost puts one on the same level as the KR given the other powers and exposes that person to the same danger, if not more because whoever gets the sword gains other powers as well. Which would make it a very desirable object. So this would contradict his idea of keeping the king safe. Regardless of Dalinar's biases or feelings when it comes to Elhokar and Adolin, I think he must realise this is much more important than comforting an ego. Plus I personaly belive that in choosing to do something like this he should at least ask Kaladin, given that fact that he "earned" it.

I agree with a good leader must learn to read his men and understand them, but we have to keep in mind Dalinar hasn't been a leader until recently. Wasn't that pointed out? That he was the soldier and he is learning how to lead people ?(god! how many times can I use the word lead/er? ) Anyway, I do belive he is in a process of figuring that out, especially now that he openly took the lead ( another one). You are right his decisions weren't the best ones when it comes to these three, but now he is responsable for the rest of the world so I belive his attitude towards them will change. He was also super protective with Elhokar because he was feeling guilty for Gavilar's death, but in the end of WoR, I got the impression the let that guilt go. Anyway, I don't want to go too much offtopic with analizing him

While I do belive you make a fair point regarding Dalinar's poor decision to waste Shards on Renarin, I think the stakes are much higher now. Not only Dalinar knows exactly what's ahead of them now and the battles they will have, but this is not just an ordinary blade. As Syl points out is dangerous and a tresure. So it makes me a bit doubtful it will be wasted like this, even considering Dalinar has it, which we're not sure about. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I do belive we might read too much into everything, not having a bigger picture and dissecting every little detail

Even considering that Dalinar has a blind spot for Elhokar, rather than Adolin ( which I don't necessarily agree with) from a strategic point of view it would make much sense to give Adolin power and put him in a higher position because he knows he is more capable than Elhokar. And I don't think this is up for debate, I truly belive he considers his son's competence above the one of his nephew. With those powers and Elhokar still being sort of the king, he can't do much. Like if it were up to use those in battles or other circumstances. I don't think he would waste "powers" only for him not to be a cry baby. I don't know, maybe you are right. But it doesn't make sense for the way I read the story so far .

I don't really understand what would point to Dalinar giving Elhokar the Honorblade. I understand it's all suppositions, but it doesn't make sense to me. Firstly, we don't know what happened to the blade, if it's in Dalinar possesion at all. Secondly, even though Kaladin saved Elhokar and had a moment with him when the king let his guard down, I don't think he sees him as a capable king yet, he just accepted that he deserved protection. And I don't think Dalinar would ignore Kaladin or he would do it without asking for anyone else's opinion. Doesn't Elhokar already have a Shardblade+ Shardplate ? Plus, I think(maybe I am remembering wrong) Syl pointed out how Szeth gained those powers through the blade and it's a forced way to do it? If Dalinar would give the blade to someone in order for that person to gain powers, why wouldn't he give it to Adolin? It would make much more sense for Adolin to gain powers that way,given that pretty much everyone around him is a Radiant and he seems much more capable than Elhokar..

Now that you mention this.. I am not sure if this was discussed somewhere or not, but if Renarin is in the Bridge 4 group, does that mean he could also get "powers" via Kaladin? I know he's alreay a Radiant, but it made me wonder.. or do you think that only applies for the men that have been with Kaladin from the beginning ?

After reading all 7 pages, I don't have much to say that hasn't been said. I noticed someone mentioned how Kaladin thinks of Urithiru like home, how he contained himselft to go much harder on Roshone and he even mentions something along the lines he's happy with the person he is becoming. That combined with how he exited the scene, makes me really happy because it shows how much he has changed and matured in some ways. Hopefully no more "Brooding Eyes" My first instinct was that Renarin killed the second victim to distract attention from Adolin, but for some reason I don't find that much sense into it and he doesn't strike me like the kind of person who could be so composed after comiting a premeditated murder. But he definitely knows what's going on with Adolin and I think he's not the only one. My other thought was that someone else saw Adolin killing Sadeas and now they are playing with him, torturing to see if and when he will break. Why ? I don't know, it's more of a feeling. Also someone pointed out that we are reading and projecting so much into what we are reading, that some things might not be that important afterall. Although it's an interesting experience and I like how everyone here plays a little detective role. Offtopic, I guess waiting for new chapters everyweek is like waiting for the new GoT episode. I jumped off that bandwagon a couple of years ago, but know I understand how everyone around me felt every week.

Yeah, I agree. I also think that SA has a more mature and diverse audience than Twilight, so it woudln't get to ship wars. Plus I feel like there are more important topics on which to have endless debates. I do appreciate a bit of conflict and turmoil as long as it's not over the top.

Thank you Ok! So after I had some time to browse more on other topics on this forum I've seen you popping up so I can understand why you thought I was minimizing the points you've made. On what I commented above I was replying stictly to some points I have seen you made on this Overhyped characters thread on the previous pages. With that being said, I agree this isn't the place to nitpick things further, as I don't want to shift any more attention from the main topic of this thread or spam the others I am glad we've sorted things out and I look forward to read more of your indepth analysis on other threads

Actually I think this is a good case where a love triangle could work. I feel like the characters are strong enough on their own and have so much more to them, that a love triangle woudn't turn out to be a cliche, but would add another layer to the story. As BS keeps saying in his lectures, it's not about original plots or new ideas, but about how you can take something that seems trivial or has been done before a million times and do it in a new way. I have enough faith in Brandon's writer skills and in the characters for this not to become cheesy. He actually has an interesting lecture on creating romances and tension between characters. I understand not many people like romance in books and this is the reason they don't want this to go anywhere. I don't actually mind it and I feel like sometimes, if it's done well adds more depth to the characters as it makes them more human (showing flaws or emotions otherwise we wound't necessarily see). But I know this could turn into a polarizing topic which is why many people are not that happy about it. Sometimes I think that a part of the problem with the love triangle trope is how invested the fandom becomes. Personally I think that the ammount of romance that has been present in BS's books so far was a good balance and it complemented the plot, rather than taking something from it.

Ok @maxal, let me make something clear. This wasn’t supposed to be an attack to your persona or anything like that. I am not jumping in the “bashing Maxal” bandwagon if that was your impression. It seems that you have had a bit of a disagreement on these issues, but I am new to this forum (as you will see from the fact that I don't know how to quote paragraphs) and to this community and somehow I stumbled upon this thread and only seen your posts here. Given said that, based on what you wrote here regarding Dalinar’s relationship with Adolin I interpreted in the way I did. I was basing my assumptions on things like “ I dislike his personal biases wanting him to always emotionally favor Elhokar/Renarin as opposed to Adolin. I hate how he spoiled those two, how he is partly responsible for Renarin being so broken by refusing to give him any worth, by treating him like broken vase needing to be cared for endlessly as opposed to someone actually apt to contribute, how he made Adolin grow up thinking he was not good enough for love, how Elhokar became a worst king due to his endless endorsement of his weaknesses. I don't hate that he is a flawed father, in fact I love this about his character because it makes him more interesting to read, but I hate he never acknowledged his failings.” And “He is a double-edged knife: incredibly forgiving towards those he has sympathy for (and yes that includes Sadeas), but incredibly hard towards those not having earned it (Adolin most notably). I do think there is a real possibility the next book will show Dalinar prosecuting his own son when he wouldn't do the same for Sadeas... It may even start to look as if Dalinar would pick Sadeas over Adolin.... May. I said may, but there is a rational to be had for it.” From what I could find on this thread ( sorry if I overlooked something), these were the parts you disscused about Dalinar's attitude towards Adolin. Forgive me, but not knowing other points you've made in different threads, this seeed a bit one sided. Impling that he would favor one son/nephew over the other or over his worst enemy (it's true, here you pointed out the MAY, but still) without acknowledging all the times he showed how much he cares and respects Adolin, seemed a bit exaggerated and biased to me. I agree, you gave Hoid the benefit of the doubt after others raised similar points to what I said, so I have nothing more to comment on that. And with this I rest my case. I am not looking for a debate or to bash you for defending one character you love, I just pointed out what rubbed me the wrong way in the context of this thread.

I agree that Shallan and Pattern are my favourite "power couple" so far. As someone who usually has problems with female characters, I feel like Shallan is one of my favourite characters of all time, which is why WoR has to be my favourite BS book so far. I can only admire the journey she's been through and the character growth. Also I think it shows how much Sanderson grew as a writer when it comes to female characters. Even though I liked Vin, she wasn't particulary a favourite. Also Elhokar gets points from me for the ending of WoR. I started by being so annoyed with him in WoK and rolling my eyes everytime he was speaking and I ended up finding some redeeming qualities to him. I think he will become a very interesting character in the future books. His discussion with Kaladin from the end of WoR made him very human for me. Even though I usually like the "good" characters, Graves also seems really intriguing.