Alderant

I like the idea behind them. There's nothing out there yet, but I use one as the identity I'm drafting my novel under.

Ah. I think I see where you're coming from, and you may have a point. I've only recently started considering the effect Lin Davar had on Shallan. I'll add this to my notes of things to look for.

Yeah, I mostly wanted to note this because I think there might be something later, and this early on pretty much anything could be something defining. @Fifth of Daybreak pointed this out as well, so whether or not this is actually a character trait or something I just noticed remains to be seen, but I'm hoping most of these points are things that can be built upon later on in the series. At this point I'm inclined to say it's a self-control issue. Yes and no, and I'm expecting to really get into this in WoR, but I'm reading chapters 7 & 8 right now, and there's an indication that she lies to herself on this point, but that will be in the analysis of those two chapters. Noted. I'll be on the lookout. Interesting points. As you said, this is only the second chapter, so it will be interesting to see how this all develops. Thanks for your participation!

Buy. Jasnah as Queen will turn the Alethi into a scholarly nation like the Azish and will defeat Odium’s ramen empire through sheer logic.

Your argument is perfectly valid. It was something I noticed and wanted to mark down, but you might have a point. Ill have to see where the analysis takes me—I think 8 is the next Shallan chapter. I’m glad you’re enjoying it so far! Helping more people enjoy the character like I do and understand her better was the point of the analysis, after all.

Sell. The Recreance originally occurred because too many Radiants realized that Honor was only giving them 1-ply to wipe themselves.

Is it possible that that “not again” line might reference the aforementioned locked room? Like the reasoning for it?

You’ll still be around at least, though!

I agree with @RShara Jasnah does seem to have been abused by someone in her past for all the reasons she pointed out. And that could explain a lot about her cold, logical personality. We have yet to really understand a lot about her character—motivations, history, and ideology are all pretty hazy at this point, so I’m looking forward to the answer too And come on guys...it will only be, like...15 years for book 8 at the rate he’s currently writing Stormlight books. Well still be around.

Thank you. I think both ways on this. While I can see the importance of not segregating the fandom and the practicality of not having a dedicated character forum with regards to making spoilers and such easier to manage, I do think that, with the overwhelming amount of non-character related threads already in existence, trying to add a large amount of character threads into the various boards that already contain a large number of threads would add to the frustration of those who don't want to see the topics. I can easily see others getting frustrated with having to scroll through or past threads that they think should be there just to find the threads that they like, that were once on the front page. I do think, however, that a dedicated board to character discussion isn't a bad idea--we already have a dedicated board for Cosmere Theories, and it hasn't really segregated the fandom who want to post in there from being able to post in specific book threads. And people will still have questions, ideas, and thoughts on the books, but perhaps restricting in-depth character discussion to a separate board, like we do for the really in-depth cosmere theories, and still allowing general, lower-level character discussion to their respective book boards, wouldn't be such a disaster in the making. Or perhaps maybe there could just be broader-level subforums for general series, like a subforum board for Stormlight, a subforum for Mistborn, etc. That way you stay away from having a board for every single book, but they still maintain a coherence to their source material, rather than having a "Vin/Elend marriage analysis" thread next to a "the struggles of Lopen" thread.

Chapter 5 is up!

Thank you for your reply and also for checking out my analysis thread. It means a lot to have some of the bigger community members participate. It's good to know you guys are talking and discussing what ways you can implement change. For my part, when I created the thread I fully expected about three people to participate, and to receive a lot of criticism for even creating it, but I decided to go through with it because it's a project that's dear to me. The reception I've received over there, as well as some of the replies I've seen here, has given me some hope that maybe things aren't as bad as they have seemed to this point, or that things are going to change for the better.

All due respect, that’s kind of been the point of why people have been upset that the thread was just closed the way it was—because there was a general perception of hostility in those discussions everywhere outside the thread, so the thread closure reinforced the idea that those of us, who liked the discussions in that thread, those thoughts weren’t wanted.

Thanks. I think she’s a really complex character, and deserves the time and effort, but I also think that any analysis of her without at least mentioning the shipping would be to leave something out. As I said in the OP though, I’ll try to keep it as uncontentious as possible on my part. I appreciate having you on here for the discussion!

Thanks for your thoughts. I appreciate your perspective, as is usually the case.

Stop. I'm dying.

Well played. Well played indeed.

Hmm...not sure how I should respond to this, lol

Like a Reese's?

To be fair here @IronBars, the thread wasn't moved to vanish on you and repeat the process. There are some concerns that have been voiced and the moderators thought it prudent to create an entirely separate thread to focus on the problem. Unfortunately it appears RShara was caught up in the aftermath of it. She was trying to explain to Dreamstorm her side of the thread.

Well, we don't actually know what oaths are said during an Alethi marriage. Perhaps her breaking of oaths was in other areas, apart from the love department. I mean, to follow up @RShara here, in your traditional US (and Hollywood) wedding ceremony the lines are something like "to have and to hold, to love and to cherish, in richer in poorer until death do you part," so it could be something along those lines, or it could be simply that the Stormfather, who views all oaths as sacred, is referring to an oath she made to someone else other than the ones she made to Gavilar in their marriage. There's just too much we don't know...about Navani, about Alethi ceremonies, about life in the GKholin household in general. :/

Ahhh. I think you might be right, but I only have the audiobooks (e.g., my phone) on me, but that sounds familiar. EDIT: RShara, quick with the quotes as always, beat me to the punch.

Uhh sure! Maybe I'll do both. That way I can have a document that tracks changes to her personality, as well as the ability to nest the chapters by book.

As someone on here who is primarily interested in character development and discussion, I have to say that closing the ASK thread down came as rather a shock. I wasn't extremely attentive to the thread, so I can't say with confidence that I really know what went on. I do know that whenever the ship came up in the general forum (outside the ASK thread), I felt that I had to walk on eggshells with how I talked or else I risked an explosion of antagonistic comments, not just from those that opposed my view, but from people who hated the discussion period. I personally told several new posters to go to that thread so that the Shard could be a place where the people who didn't want to see the discussion, didn't have to, in order to promote peace within the forum and keep the contentious and controversial shipping conversation moderately contained. I know that before OB's release, the forum was littered with threads that had devolved from their intent into a shipping war, and I'm not a supporter of that. I thought that was kind of the point of having a mega-thread in the first place. I understand that that ultimately failed in design, but in response to your thoughts, Chaos The question I have here, is how would this stop what happened before from happening again? Regardless of intent in what's been going on, how do we ensure that people, like myself, feel that they can discuss things like characters and relationships? I mean, I like the 17S. I like the crazy crackpot theories that other people come up with. But characters are what I love most. I just started a forum post in OB about Shallan's development as a character. But even in my original post, I felt that I was required to state that any shipping discussion in my analysis would be approached from as neutral a ground as I could make it. Perhaps there should be a forum dedicated to just character discussion, with a subforum of relationship discussion? Kind of like there is with Cosmere Theories? It, however, is your job to protect people from feeling like they aren't welcome. If you feel like your opinions aren't welcome, why should you as an individual feel welcome? I mean, it isn't like we are advocating dangerous ideas or politics etc, it's a book. So in a way, a bit like a government, you should protect minorities simply because they don't have the power of the masses. Also, I agree with both points here. I don't think it's your guys' job to protect minority opinions, but I do also think that comments directly targeting a subgroup of forum posters, like those that are explicitly antagonistic toward the Shalladin group, are examples of something that moderators should look out for. To quote Elenion: I believe the problem stems from the fact that the minority opinions (shipping, character discussion, etc.) don't feel supported. For me, it's not that I think moderators shouldn't have an opinion. But I, and I'm sure many others as well, feel that when a moderator gets on and begins to actively attack an argument, that arguing back in response is going to get them modded or banned. I had a debate with Greywatch in the "Adolin Breaking" thread where I genuinely was afraid I was going to get modded. It's one of the only times I've even talked to them, and it was over the definition of what "Mary Sue" meant. It's one thing to try to debate with someone who has a lot of reputation, I'll get to that in a minute, but when you disagree with someone with that "Moderator" tag, it feels a bit like you can't argue, or you risk being modded. Especially when they're strongly opinionated or very vocal about their stance. My personal thoughts on the matter are simply that if you're acting as a moderator, you should stay out of the forum discussion. Maybe use a different account when you're doing moderator business, versus when you're engaging in discussion as a civilian. Or maybe have your responses a different font or color, so that when people see you coming down on someone publicly, they know you're doing it as a moderator, and not to argue as a poster. I don't really know what the solution is, but as a civilian member of the boards, I get nervous whenever I see that moderator tag openly disagreeing with me. I have no such compunctions when I see maxal or FifthofDaybreak arguing with me, and I've had some fun discussions with both of them where we didn't see the same side. As far as reputation goes, I actually like it. It's nice to see when my posts get a lot of likes. I put a lot of thought into them, and seeing my rank/reputation go up is extremely validating. It doesn't always happen, but every time it does, I tell my wife "Hey, guess what? I ranked up again!" or something to the effect. She probably thinks I'm a bit crazy for getting so excited about that, but for me, an entire removal of the system would be discouraging. Rewards work--they show people not just what is popular, but also what is well-done, and I like to think that the majority of my reputation has been earned from how well-thought out and cohesive my posts are. I hope that makes sense. I'm not trying to be contentious, but I thought this would be a good opportunity to voice my thoughts on the matter. EDIT: Uh...good. Because that's like 90% of my posts.

Neat analysis! I didn't know about some of those--I'm not versed in latin or greek at all, but it doesn't surprise me that the definition of jasna shares so much with Jasnah's characteristics. It's a common way to build character bases--pick a name, find something that sounds like it that means something interesting, and then use that as a foundation for the character, but the fact that it still occurs that way is interesting. Have a cookie!