Eternum

Sorry for not being all that active these past couple of cycles. Lots of stuff irl happening at the most inopportune times. I felt like there really wasn't much of an argument on Ventyl and so many people were voting on them based on gut reads that I got curious. In the case I was wrong and they were actually elim, fantastic. In the case that they were village, I was curious to see the responses by everyone who voted them, but.. that doesn't seem to have worked out It's actually very weird how people are essentially ignoring them, honestly. I find myself agreeing with TJ that this post is just weird as heck. Some meta talk, a random statement that they find Straw village. Then somehow ties Straw and Fifth interactions at the start of C1 with Silber's old Fifth/Xino team tinfoil with TJ and Fifth being on the same team? I'm honestly so confused. For now, Mist. There is probably an elim hiding among the lesser active people and I think you're a good start.

I'll sign up, why not.

Not alignment-indicative. I.. think I'm fine with the idea of a Ventyl lynch, honestly. Seems like a lot of you are very wary of him and while I can sort of understand, I don't see it the same way, so it'll be interesting to see how he flips. Truthwatcher Ventyl.

Feeling sort of unwell, but I’ll post some thoughts. @TJ Shade First off, I realize now that I misunderstood the post I quoted above. I saw that as you saying people had said Pyro’s playstyle is NAI and not you saying that, in your experience, Pyro isn’t doing anything out of the ordinary for them. Still disagree with the second part, but that’s besides the point. I also understand that it seemed like I was brushing off your argument, but I was just trying to be as brief as possible. As for Xino’s death, I didn’t really take it into account. His death mostly seems like a frame, since your vote on Xino did not stick at all. I didn’t want to get into the IKYK it causes because it’s honestly fruitless, so I’d say it’s NAI in regards to you. While I still genuinely don’t see the logic behind your vote on Silber and agree with Striker and Mint that your tone seemed very defensive, after rereading the thread, your defense and other posts defending you, I noticed that I was trying to make everything fit into the elim!TJ narrative before anything else. If you got lynched and flipped village, I would understand the suspicions levied against me, answer questions and respond to the accusations that would ensue and see where that leads. If the destination is my lynch, so be it, but I won't just let myself get lynched. Honestly, there’s little to gain from pressuring you further, I’m not certain about lynching you at this point, and having already tunneled on you last cycle I’m hesitant to vote for you again, but I don’t like any of the current trains. I am sort of confused as to where the Mint train actually came from (if someone could summarize it that’d be great), I think the suspicions regarding Ventyl aren’t based on much and Striker I have a decent village read on. I think I’ll place my vote on Truthwatcher for now and see if I can stay awake until rollover.

So, a few thoughts: Gears and Mat asking for Straw's opinion feels odd. I think they may be taking his cue from last cycle and trying to promote discussion, but it gives me a bad gut feeling. I don't like how many people with low activity we have. The rule about votes seems to be a bit counterproductive-- I noticed Shard of Reading just placed a vote on Pyro and dipped. Really doesn't help. Fifth, the formatting on your reads post hurts my eyes and soul. Please. Just press enter I want to say more, but I don't know how much I'll manage in the 4 minutes until rollover so I'm just gonna make a couple of big posts next cycle to sum up my thoughts about this one, if I can manage it.

Hello all! I haven't been home for most of today, but I'll be here until rollover. Time to actually read through all of this... This strays into IKYK territory, now that I think about it. Elim!TJ could have been drawing the vote off of village!Pyro just because it really doesn't matter and, in that case, wouldn't make sense for an elim to do but it doesn't actually hurt them (the obvious statement that they could both be elims doesn't need to be rehashed). Feels like mental gymnastics, if I'm being completely honest. Voting for Pyro in this case would be the safe option, because how he flips would go a long way in determining TJ's alignment (barring the above mental gymnastics), but I wanted a response. Gears has shown that we shouldn't write them off as a new player-- they're picking things up very quickly, to their credit. I'm more inclined to believe they're a quick learner or have some experience with deduction games than to say they're consulting with teammates for all of their posts. Both you and Gears, however, seem to think peer review is common. In my personal experience, I've never seen it happen. Assuming peer review just feels like a very bad move, but there's not much to say here. Not really alignment-indicative, just my two cents. Honestly, I feel like you're reading far too deep into it. It seems like an honest mistake, an elim would not let that kind of Freudian slip happen. My gut says Ventyl is village, but I'll have to see more from them. I'll be brief: If Sil thought them to be a team, does it matter in the slightest which of the two he voted for? Honestly, I don't see the logic there. You didn't push it as a lynch at first, perhaps, but that doesn't really matter either. The vote stuck. You stated that Pyro's actions were NAI, based on other player's reads. Only person to mention anything about Pyro was Devotary. Sil's suspicious statements were specifically all the tinfoiling. You did not vote on Sil because of them, but because you believed there should be a reasoning behind his vote. As I said above, I don't understand that at all. Also, your point about elims not wanting to start trains is eh. Maybe so, if they want to lay low, but just because that's the safe option doesn't mean elims won't take action. It all comes down to personal playstyle. Again, there is no difference in my mind between voting on Silber for not voting on Xino and voting on Silber for not giving the reasoning behind picking which of their two elim suspects to vote on. You guys talk a lot. Sheesh I hate that I couldn't be more active this cycle. I do not intend to move my vote, but I'll try to post again before rollover.

I sort of disagree. Let's look at the timeline of the Silber lynch, shall we? The very first vote on them comes from Matrim. RNG poke vote, removed after Silber responds. Nothing of note here. Then, after expressing a dislike for random votes, Truthwatcher places a random vote on Silber. Apologizes for it in the same message. This is the first vote to stick. A couple of hours later clarifies that they won't be online from then on so they wanted a vote out there. Talked about this last cycle, no need to rehash my thoughts. Truthwatcher then makes a second, near-identical post giving the reasoning behind their vote. Everything about the vote is weird, to say the least, but let's move on. Then comes TJ, switching their vote from Xino to Silber. Responds to my read of them and I found their reasoning for voting Xino in the first place pretty insufficient, but I decided to let them off the hook and see how the whole thing progressed. Later, after Devotary not voting on Pyro based on Pyro's actions seemingly fitting their playstyle, TJ used that as a reason to stay off the Pyro train. Their reasons for voting Silber felt.. odd. That's mostly a gut read, but it also looked to me like they wanted to cover up the switch off of Xino by building off of the suspicions raised on the Fifth bandwagon. Silber was an easy target: Already had a vote on him and had made odd, possibly incriminating comments (that people would later latch on to to solidify the train). Straw then looks more into Silber at TJ's prompting and, based off of Silber's response earlier, moves their vote off of Vapor and onto Silber. Straw's reasoning is solid enough, but with their vote Pyro and Silber become the only two options left. Mint places a vote on Silber as well, deciding between Pyro, Silber and Straw. No real reasoning given. I don't like it, honestly. I'm also interested in hearing Mint's suspicions on Straw, as I didn't see them refer to that in the thread. I may just be too tired to remember right now, though. Vapor votes Silber. Again, just like their other votes, it is very odd. At this point I'm not sure if they're new at mafia or if they're new at mafia and new to being an elim. Nothing to say that I haven't already. Final vote on Silber is by Devotary, who talks a little about the meta of late vote swings. Honestly, nothing piqued my interest here. Very late vote, but she'd already stated her reasons for not voting on Pyro. I didn't mention Pyro's vote because it's simply self defence, as you said. It's a little weird how he hesitated to vote in self defense, but eh. Based off of all this, I'm feeling worse about TJ than anyone else. TJ Shade, any thoughts? (@TJ Shade) Very good point here. Silber and Xino's deaths mean absolutely nothing about Fifth's alignment. Will post again later with some more thoughts, have been trying to put this post together for a few hours now but distractions keep coming up

Fair enough, but keep in mind that explaining your thought process is more useful than simply stating your reason. And, ninja'd. Pff.

That's a fair point, I suppose, but offering up excuses for essentially baseless claims isn't a very village thing. Offering up excuses in general, honestly. As a villager, you want to offer your reasoning and let people build off of it, not make claims and then prepare excuses just in case you're called out for them. EDIT: I don't particularly like Silber, but I'll keep my vote on Pyro for now. If you guys want Silber lynched, though, I'm fine with that.

If you want analysis on Pyro, I'll reiterate my thought process here: Pyro comes in, follows Straw's vote without any personal opinion involved. I voted him here because I find that a terrible idea and wanted to get some actual reasoning out of him. He then proceeds to retract the vote after being called out, claiming that there was no suspicion on Fifth and he wanted to use his vote to place more pressure on him. At this point, the majority was still voting on Fifth, so logically he would've left the vote where it was, especially if he wanted to pressure Fifth with it. For some reason, he panicked and did not. Here's where I decided to keep my vote on him. So far, he's the person I'm most suspicious of, and his lack of an attempt at defending himself makes it worse. This isn't the kind of situation where a villager should be alright with getting lynched.

I'm starting to think Vapor is genuinely just confused, especially after their last message, but we'll have to see. At that point, the votes on you had happened a lot earlier and voting on you wasn't the trend. In fact, pretty sure everyone who had posted any sort of reads had put you as village. That's what I meant. I was aware there were votes on you. What's the vote count now?

..Ah. I think I get it. People are going to call you out anyway, because the reasoning behind votes and the such is our main source of information. You've just gotta stick to your own judgement sometimes. Try to be more sure of yourself.

I'd like to point out that between you saying you wanted to make a reasoned vote and you voting on Xino, the only people who posted were me and Devotary. You did admit it wasn't much of an elim read, but still. We'll see. Other things to deal with right now. Specifically, how flip-floppy Vapor's votes have been. It's weird, even for a new player. I would have genuinely rather had a tie between Fifth and Pyro -- puts pressure on the main suspects so far -- and you switching your vote twice this quickly is weird to say the least. Straw said this about Pyro and it's worth noting that Vapor has done this exact thing twice now. This is just weird. At the time of your vote, nobody was voting Straw, your reasons for voting Pyro are simply parroting what we've said so far and, heck, what you're doing here is almost exactly why I voted for Pyro in the first place. I'm gonna keep my vote where it is, but there's a lot to unpack here.

I'm back! Having read through the thread, I suppose I'll post my own reads/a short summary with my thoughts. Gears goes for a random vote, says to leave inactives alone and also says he wouldn't be opposed to lynching them in consequent sentences. Supports a random lynch. Honestly very elim-looking at first glance, as both of those options help the elims far more than they help the village, but I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt as a new player. Generally agree with Straw's assessment, but their second comment where they explain they meant random voting until a train forms feels like it could be the result of advice by an elim teammate. Now posts their reads, which are nice to have. Slight elim read, possibly new player figuring it out. Xino points out there is no information to be gained from a random lynch and doesn't seem scared to start a train, I like that. I also don't feel like him being fine with @Lahilt (who has yet to post) getting lynched is suspicious at all. There was no indicator that Lahilt was a bad target, and a poke vote with even some intent behind it is certainly more valuable than usual. No real read, but leaning village. Straw is being proactive and trying to spark discussion, which I like. Not wanting to vote randomly is fair and not alignment-indicative. Spoken a relatively good amount, jumped immediately on Fifth's vote on them which I didn't really like as he's applying his own logic behind voting to another person's vote when the disagreements there have already been made obvious, but it's not really alignment-indicative. Mild village read. Frozen Mint votes on Gears very quickly, but I find it understandable. Posted fairly early, didn't have much to go on and, at that point, had the most reasoned vote. Awfully aggressive, but understandable. Could go either way. Matrim's Dice just posted, as they said they would. Gave their opinion on the main source of discussion so far, had new things to say. So far, mild village read. No read on Striker, Shard of Reading or Mist. Striker has said more than the other two, but there's really nothing alignment-indicative anywhere in their posts. Truthwatcher is honestly confusing me. Against random votes, still votes randomly, stands by vote and an hour later says they won't be online for the rest of the cycle so they wanted to have a vote up, which they could have said with their vote in the first place. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, but they're still the most blatantly suspicious person so far. Gut says elim, but I'm unsure. Fifth said a lot of things I agree with in his post and I don't think his vote on Straw is very alignment-indicative. Most votes so far haven't really been based on heavy elim reads, so Straw getting up in arms about that is weird, as I mentioned earlier. I greatly dislike the bandwagon that started on him, since very few people have given actual reasoning behind their votes (and they really can't claim they're random votes at this point), but that doesn't mean anything about Fifth. So far, slight village read. Nothing leads me to believe otherwise. Silberfabren seems very paranoid, something they admit themselves. Their suspicion of a Xino-Fifth team was odd, but not very alignment indicative since they didn't really push it at all. Seems fine with Truthwatcher's vote on them, also open with their opinions. Slight village read. TJ Shade I'm unsure of. Says they want to hold onto their vote, then votes on Xino for a reason I don't quite understand. While the obligatory voting may have contributed, I don't like that they wanted reasoned votes but proceeded to vote for Xino for.. not much of a reason. No read, leaning slightly elim. I would greatly appreciate it if Vapor and Pyro gave actual reasoning behind their votes on Fifth (see above for my thoughts on that). I don't like the votes, but they're not really alignment-indicative until I see them say something about them. I do like Pyro less than Vapor here, though: deferring to a more experienced player would be understandable if you were fairly sure they're confirmed, but this is Day 1. Voting on someone just because Straw did feels.. weird. Could even be an attempt at framing Straw if you think hard enough about it. Tell me if I missed anyone or anything, a few distractions popped up as I was writing this and it's not as concise as I would have liked. For now, I'll move my vote from Vapor to Pyro.

I shouldn't be killed cause I'm a skaa boy and want to play! Either way, hello all! I'm currently on the road, but I'll come back and make a more coherent post in a couple of hours. I'm gonna place a vote on Vapor for now. EDIT: Okay, apparently I have a little time right now! So far, I like the discussion *about* poke votes more than what the poke votes themselves have caused. Personally, I think they're a worthwhile endeavor: the pressure of even a single vote makes people more likely to make mistakes if they're trying to hide. Devotary makes a good point, though (forgive the weird formatting, I'm on mobile): "Poke voting" another elim would be a very, very easy distancing tactic.

Heck, I'm in. Been a while.

It might seem so, but I don't think it really makes a difference.

So, first off, I'd like to apologize for my inactivity the past couple of cycles. It's been.. a little bit hectic. I'm going to have to do a reread of the thread to figure out what was going on, but something I'd like to note is that we should look back at the first day and night, to see if anyone was being overtly suspicious of Lum. The elims would have known she was lying, and so they would have been trying to frame her specifically. I know this isn't much contribution, especially considering a scan would normally benefit the village and, as such, villagers would also be pushing for a Tin scan.. but I figured this was worth mentioning. I had two Bendalloy medallions and I did intend to use one, but I forgot..

So. Someone used Bendalloy to delay CadCom's death. If this was indeed a villager looking to get more information out of CadCom, they should reveal themselves. However, I doubt it was a villager, as I also have a Bendalloy medallion that I did not use.

Sorry for the bad formatting, by the way- I'm doing this from mobile. First off, I'd say it's a better C2 lynch because the person with Tin (if they're a villager, and the chances point to yes) could use their medallion to see who is lying. That person is most likely an elim, as lying about their medallion just.. doesn't sound like a great idea when they can claim they just have one without revealing the power, or even not claim at all. And.. I just noticed Devotary responded to that an hour ago. Whoops. Well, either way. Second, yes, I do believe your points are invalid, and I've explained why. You yourself admitted that Fifth's plan is better, and yet you still stick to your guns and claim that this would help the village, when in reality claiming on C1 only helps the elims. The elims do not know where the medallions they *didn't* distribute go, and thus there is still information they need. I talked about this before-- If someone claims a metal the elims want gone, they can just.. take them out if they roleclaim. I believe my case against you is fairly solid, and I'd like you to provide equally solid proof to the contrary, as opposed to claims that I'm cherry-picking your posts. Third, I.. really don't understand what you're trying to convey in the last paragraph of your post. I'm going to leave my vote on you for now. EDIT: @Cadmium Compounder, I'm pretty sure Fura claimed to have an iron medallion.

I honestly believe CadCom is justified in suspecting those who wanted to get people to roleclaim, as the night kill happens before medallion passing. That means the elims could destroy any medallions they decide are too dangerous to keep around thanks to a hasty roleclaim. I don't know if this fact was pointed out earlier, but for this reason I will vote Fura. Claiming on C1 does not help the village, even though at first glance it might seem so. I don't remember who proposed revealing what medallions we had C1 on C2, but that's a far better idea than claiming now. EDIT: @FatherTiempo, my assumption that the maximum number of aluminum metalminds had been reached was because 1.There is one medallion of each type in the game regardless of what the Elims added, and 2. The Elims can add up to 5 medallions of each type.

That's six aluminum medallions claimed, if I'm not wrong. If everyone's being honest, that is. That should be the maximum amount. My first thought was using a Tin medallion to verify those claims. There's little point in *not* doing so, really.

Them being passive means they'll activate when the holder is attacked (or I read it as such, at least). I might be wrong, but this is generally how I remember passive items/abilities working.

I think it's fairly clear that the elims choose who to send medallions to. They submit a list of players to the GM. There isn't much left to the imagination. I.. don't think the elims would give themselves Pewter medallions. I see it as sort of a gambit, one that is decidedly not worth it (in my opinion). If they did, they'd lose them after this cycle, giving them protection they will most likely not even need, and then the medallions would become a double-edged sword, as they'd raise the risks of the elims hitting someone with a medallion. I also have a medallion, by the way.

Well, it's been half a day and nobody has posted anything yet (besides Elandera). We need to get this going soon, don't we? Quick question, though: @Kidpen Will there be a lynch this cycle?