ILuvHats

I haven’t seen anybody theorize about this interlude in forever, so l figured “Why not?” I won’t try to decipher the weird message Puuli’s grandfather told him since any attempts would be the barest of speculation. It’s so esoteric! Why Brandon? Why so little? But I’m sure you all shared my frustration on your first OB read. Anyways, I’m not looking at what it means, but where the prophecy (I’m going to assume it is one, because otherwise what’s the point of the interlude?) came from. It’s simple; Puuli’s descended from someone who had access to voidbinding. I mean, when you think about it, where else could it have come from? The only other possibilities I could think of are that Puuli’s grandfather had a death rattle, or that one of their ancestors accessed fortune using methods from foreign worlds. As for the death rattle option, nobody really pays those much attention besides the Silent Gatherers. More importantly, I’m the italicized message Puuli thinks of, his grandfather addresses him directly. And using foreign magic systems just feels wrong. Why overcomplicate things, or try to include a reference to the greater cosmere that’s almost impossible to catch? No, it’s much more likely that one of Puuli’s ancestors could void bind, foresaw an important event, and passed it down to his children, to be passed on to their children, etc. To be fair, it’s possible the person who began passing down the prophecy is not directly related to Puuli. However, the fact that the message has been passed down for generations indicates that it was deeply ingrained in the familys minds, enough so that it was continuously passed down. And who better to begin a message that endured so long than somebody’s parent? Also note that I’m not considering the possibility that Puuli’s grandfather was himself a voidbinder. The message feels vague enough that it has probably been obscured over centuries. If the grandfather directly saw what was to come, why would he be so vague? Besides, he couldn’t have pulled a Renarin since spren weren’t bonding with people back then, and we know nothing about the other methods of accessing voidbinding. Well that’s it. Ooh, one last thing. Wouldn’t it be cool if Puuli was descended from the same Truthwatcher who left a message in the gem in Urithiru saying he foresaw “this?”

It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, and empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter. -Collected on Shashachev 1173, 24 seconds pre-death. Subject was a Thaylen merchant known in the black market for smuggling firemoss. (Tolkien, The Hobbit)

First, to clarify, Ruin has investiture trapped in the atium, and he also has investiture trapped in Scadrial since he helped create it and is thus highly invested in the planet. I see no reason why he couldn’t reclaim the investiture from the atium while he’s destroying the rest of the planet, as long as he finds where the atium is at. And if Ruin destroyed Scadrial, he would have released the investiture he’d used to create the world, and he could then reclaim it instantly. It is likely that Odium wishes to destroy Roshar/Braize for this very reason; so he can recover his investiture. The reason atium keeps Ruin from using it after it’s burned is that it sort of dissipates and gets spread out, so it needs needs to coalesce as a metal before he could reclaim it. But if Ruin destroyed Scadrial, even if the atium was somehow destroyed during the process, there is no longer a perpendicularity for it to coalesce at, so the investiture would have eventually returned to Ruin.

By “it” you mean the Recreance?

Oh wow, I never made the connection between Honor banning the use of oathgates to transfer between realms and Aimia. After all, there is an oath gate currently there. I guess this kind of implies the scouting of Aimia occurred prior to Honors death, assuming that is the reason.

Good point. I missed that on my first read (of your post that is). Also... Same. Except for my entire life.

IMO, I don’t think it’s quite as complicated as you think it is. The way I imagine it, the Recreance was a process, but lobotomizing the Singers was the straw that broke the camels back. The orders were probably on edge already from Honor’s ravings and the revelation that they were the original Voidbringers, not to mention the fact that they were abandoning Urithiru, their home. Also, there was also probably a lot of extra infighting and corruption, considering the fact that they’ve haven’t been fighting any wars for the last 2000 years or so up until the False Desolation. Even though the Knights Radiant weren’t solely dedicated to war and they did make other contributions to society, fighting the desolations was an enormous part of their identity, and wartime organizations tend to deteriorate during times of peace. They were ready to fall; all they needed was a not-so-small push to make them crack. Basically, I don’t think the quote from the 3rd oath Windrunner is really a strong indication that the Recreance was a single event (not that you’re saying that, but your assumption about its meaning is what creates the contradiction between that and what Kaladin says). The Knights were probably planning to continue existing, and many were still trying to advance their oaths, but they were shaky as a whole, and the lobotomization completed the process that was the Recreance. Just to be clear, I’m not saying your theory is wrong. But there’s another, simpler answer to the apparent contradiction you found.

Wow, that’s a fantastic work. Quick question though. Which order is the cloaked figure in the middle of the upper left quadrant?

There goes my theory about Rysn flying on Chiri Chiri’s back once he gobbled up enough investiture.

I agree, it's a careful line to tread when dealing with mental illness. I don't think they'll glorify it or anything because I trust Joaquin Phoenix to bring the gravitas and realism when dealing with these real life problems, based on his past performances. And though I'm not familiar with Todd Phillips, I know the cast was closely involved with then script and helped write a lot of their character's parts, so I have hope they'll strike the right balance, though you never know. Also, as for the Joker being justified by becoming a monster, it depends what you mean by justified. If they do it right, we'll understand why he's gone they way he's gone and even sympathize with him a little, but also be horrified by what he's become. I definitely don't want the joker to be a hero. I want to see him go waaayyy off the deep end and become a monster. But instead of being terrified of this monster because we know nothing about it and we can never truly understand it, this will be a monster that is terrifying because it used to be us. Because we realize all it takes is one bad day, and any one of us could become a monster too. That's how I imagine it going if they pull off the movie.

I am way too obsessed with this trailer. I’ve watched it more than 20 times since it came out, returning almost daily. Obviously, I’m super psyched, so here are my thoughts. IMO, their take on the joker is looking very unique. I really don’t think Joaquin Phoenix is drawing on Heath Ledger that much apart from the darkness of his character. This version is obviously a lot more grounded, and it’ll be interesting to see the joker as someone who’s mentally ill, someone who has problems a lot of us can relate to as opposed to being a force of nature like in the Dark Knight. Off the bat it looks like Arthur Fleck is struggling with depression in some form, along with other mental illnesses possibly. I really love the dichotomy that comes from this, the joker usually being a maniac who is always gleeful. And that one line: “I used to think my life was a tragedy, but now I realize, it’s a comedy.” Gives me chills. Phoenix’s acting is of course superb. He’s got the laugh right on the money. And the expression on his face beneath the make up is sometimes downright disturbing. He’ll have this dead, murderous frown beneath the painted on smile, the kind of thing you’d imagine seeing on an actual serial killers face. And the supporting cast looks really well fleshed out too, with amazing actors/actresses like Zazie Beetz and Robert Dinero. The feel of the trailer is what really sold it. The taxi driver, comedy show feel combined with the grittiness is unlike anything else I’ve seen. The music really helps put you in the mood, and it’s so strange, yet so right how triumphant the score is at the end as Fleck completes his descent into madness. Looking back over the trailer, there’s so much to find that makes you appreciate how well choreographed it is. The two stairway scenes, with Fleck ascending them at the beginning looking beaten down, then dancing down them towards the end as the Joker really draw attention to how freeing it can be to give in to the madness, and how Fleck finally finds an identity for himself in the joker. And the references they make to the previous iterations of the joker is really cool. First of all, the trailer was released in Heath Ledgers birthday. And you can see a street sign referencing Jerome, the version of the Joker in Gotham, plus a sign in the comedy club that says Pogo, which is a reference to John Wayne Gacy, the serial killer who dressed as a clown. Anyways, I’m really excited. I have a few reservations since films do occasionally release amazing trailers, and then bomb in theaters (cough cough Watchmen). And it’s possible we won’t get as much action as I would like since it’s a character study. But overall I am PUMPED, and, dare I say it, possible looking forward to this movie more than Endgame.

@Herowannabe I'll have it in tomorrow night, but it might be pretty late. I'm actually pretty lucky I checked the shard today and saw I'm participating in this round since I've been on a bit of a hiatus.

I’m aware of the Svrakiss theory. I was wondering more why you thought it was a corpse being possessed instead of a living person.

Why do you think this, out of curiosity? If you mentioned it in a theory I must have missed it. The only reason I can think of is that a person's inherent investiture would interfere with a being of investiture attempting to control them. But I think this interference could be side stepped, or forced through. And if the person's soul/spirit web has already gone to the Beyond, what investiture is the being co-opting causing the red eyes to manifest? Another point that is more my head canon than anything else. I imagine Autonomy would generally prefer servants who can function independently, though maybe not all of her avatars would necessarily. If a corpse is being animated, I assume the body has stopped physically functioning and consuming food would no longer provide energy, so investiture would need to be used in order to provide locomotion and prevent decay. And I'm guessing the beings would need to get their investiture directly from Autonomy. It makes more sense that me that these beings could actively feed off of people's spirit webs in order to function. It's just my head canon though... Edit: Wait a minute, the Fused are a thing. And I suppose they are a case of cognitive shadows who co-opt a body and can still eat like normal Singers. I’m still curious what you think though.

This sounds sad, but I would make an essence mark that would give me much improved social skills. And then I'd wear it ALL THE TIME. That would be nice.

Trust in Brandon! OOOOHHHHHH! (How was my impersonation of a ghost? Terrible, right?) Seriously, though. The Final Empire is my absolute favorite book. Every time somebody mentions the possibility of not finishing it, I die inside a little.

Thanks!

He is both your greatest hope, and your worst nightmare. He is a being who has watched mountains crumble with age and seas dry up. Some gods have called him friend, while others fear him so mightily they would obliterate entire cities if they had even the slightest chance at destroying him. He is an enigma, an unknown factor, a being who motives are utterly inscrutable. He is a shadow, subtly influencing the fate of worlds from the sidelines, watching history unfold. The stories he's told have become legends, forming a mythos of their own that span worlds. He is ... Hoid.

I’ll take this thread as an excuse to talk about the MTG storyline . I’ve never been that interested in MTG lore but I accidentally stumbled on the premise of the upcoming Sparks War, and now my interests been piqued. Of course, from what I’ve seen, people’s opinions of the Gatekeepers books is that they’re pretty mediocre. So, it’s probably not worth my time to read them in order to figure out what’s going on in the universe right now. If anyone’s familiar with the timeline though, could you catch me up on the setup going into the Sparks war? That is, if you’re bored enough to spend half an hour thoroughly outlining literally everything

Don't listen to him. He lies. The cookies are all delicious and most certainly don't have any spikes hidden in the batter that will steal your soul. Here. Would you like one?

I'm really just making this post as an excuse to share the latest Pixar short film. I don't want to spoil anything about it, but just trust me, it's amazing and beautiful and gut-wrenching. Review (Warning! Spoilers) Feel free to post any other videos on this thread that you love and take you through crazy emotional journeys.

Wow, this thread is lighting up... Just to add a little to the conversation, it's important to realize that like most psychological disorders recognized by the DSM, psychopathy is a spectrum. Nothing's ever cut-and-dry, and there are some arguments for Kelsier being on the spectrum that are almost impossible to ignore. It would almost be more interesting to argue over how severe his psychopathic tendencies are.