Vortaan
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Posts posted by Vortaan
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Ok so: I am not in a frame of mind right now where I can get into too much stuff, so @hoiditthroughthegrapevine I will address your post soon when I have more time to digest it, but for the other stuff:
4 hours ago, RShara said:I wonder if the silvery soulcaster metal could be Cultivation's god-metal? We know that god metal isn't necessarily indestructible, and soulcasters (transformation) seem to be something Cultivation would be into--transforming one un-useful material into a useful material.
If it is Cultivation's god-metal, it makes sense to me that it is attracting some sort of specific spren to help the transformation. Or, at a stretch, possibly even Cultivation herself.
I would buy it being tied more to Cultivation than Honor. I'm not sure about it attracting a specific spren so much as... I don't know. Spren that embody change? That's a concept, it has to to have a spren, although I'm not sure what kind of spren it would be. I certainly don't think they are bound either to the person or to the fabrial, just that maybe when they Soulcast it sends out a "please help me, gotta make the donuts" beacon?
3 hours ago, Jhardin said:I think another scene to consider in this is the scene where Shallan is poisoned in tWoK. Jasnah specifically calls for a garnet to soulcast blood because she is terrible at Transforming organics. Given the WoB @RShara pointed out, on whether a given gem is necessary, it does seem like certain gems aid specific Transformations because of Cognitive association/Connection. I tend to feel like that does support an approximation of a nahel bond, given that a Soulcaster Fabrial would be dependent on a particular type of spren needing to be present to power it, as a Fabrial.
There's a couple things happening in that scene. One, Jasnah is limited by needing to not reveal her secret that she's able to Soulcast without a fabrial, so she needs the garnet to justify Soulcasting Shallan's blood. Two, Blood is one of the essences, so actually doing it shouldn't fall into Jasnah's "really bad at organics" thing. The ten Essences are the easiest things to Soulcast, further you get from them, more problems you have. Three... I have no idea what the idea is with gems beyond some kind of mass Cognitive effect similar to what causes the Returned to look like they do. Everyone assumes a god should look godly, so they do. Everyone assumes garnets are a focus for Blood, so they are.
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1 hour ago, RShara said:
That could work. I mean, we do have to assume that stormlight can flow that way, but it's not a huge stretch.
The question is if that's how you are supposed to power it, why isn't it being powered by that now.
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8 minutes ago, RShara said:
But isn't it still basically inside a mountain? It'd be cool if Urithiru had a mechanism to infuse itself, but I'm not sure if there is a way for the mechanics to be possible.
The threads from that gemstone pillar seem to go all throughout Urithuru. If there are any exposed on the mountainside itself, but somehow protected, that could be a way to infuse the whole tower in one highstorm.
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What I recommend is doing a little more research before you post theories. For example, your mistwraith/Midnight essence one has the easily researched problem that Midnight Essence predates the concept of mistwraiths by several thousand years. Most of your theories seem to be freeform theorizing with some quotes to fill them out. That's great, but what I'd really suggest is giving your theories like a day to percolate and see if you still like them. I think that extra time would be something you'd benefit from.
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30 minutes ago, Dahak said:
Oathbringer Chapter 25. That doesn't appear to be one of the Midnight essences (They are blobby, don't have bones and look like shiny tar, so more than the eyes would reflect the light.)
I suspect this is Paalm, one of the better Kandra shapechangers and Sazed's senior agent at this time, doing a version of the trick TenSoon used when he was with Wax in the Pits of Hathsin. Described in a manner that doesn't look out of place to people who haven't read Mistborn, like Azure.
Paalm was with Wax at this time. Could be some other Kandra though.
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32 minutes ago, digitalbusker said:
The only part of this I'd quibble with off the top of my head is the assertion that Radiant Soulcasting can fuel any transformation from any gem. In The Way of Kings, when Jasnah is Soulcasting she drains the appropriate gems. And when Shallan accidentally turns the goblet to blood she's holding a garnet.
Counterpoint: if Jasnah is able to fuel any transformation with any gem, then of course she's going to choose to use the expected gem types so as not to draw suspicion. But the fact that Shallan got blood from a garnet indicates there's some association, even if it only comes into play when the Radiant doesn't specify.
So it could be that Jasnah can do any transformation with any kind of gem, but it does appear that the gems are still used, and she's not just drawing in the Stormlight and using it directly. (At least in book 1.) Otherwise we wouldn't expect gems to break. We never see any other surgebinders break gems by simply drawing light out of them, but Jasnah breaks I think two gems in tWoK (one in the palace and one in Crime Alley).
Maybe it's possible to do it either way (fuel a transformation directly with your own Stormlight or pay for it out of gems you have on you), and the gem only matters in the second case (if at all), and Jasnah either didn't know that or didn't want to risk glowing. Maybe during the battle at the end of Oathbringer Jasnah is fueling all her transformations with light she's already inhaled and so didn't have to worry about having gems of specific types. Or maybe she was carrying around a ton of different polestones and we just didn't get a mention of it because when you're in the middle of a Brandon Avalanche you don't have time for detailed inventory management. We don't get, even in her own PoV, a description of the negotiations with the things she's changing, but from her discussion with Shallan we know it's happening.
On the broader point of how the lesser Soulcasters work, I think you're probably pretty close. I suspect there's a spren involved in each transformation. Whether it's the same spren each time or the fabrial is facilitating a deal with whatever spren is handy, I'm not sure.
I thought about this and the closest to an answer I came up with is that Jasnah was playing the part of a person with a Soulcaster. There are probably two different ways Radiants can Soulcast. The first way is to draw the Stormlight into themselves and then Soulcast, which removes the Essence limitations. The second way is to directly offer the Stormlight from the gemstones, in which case the gemstones act as a filter and limit their options. I suspect Jasnah was extremely careful to only use this second form of Soulcasting when anyone was around.
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30 minutes ago, Yata said:
Actually the Fused were already searching for them but I assume Odium would notice if Sja-Anat defected in a too explicit way and tracking the Oathgate's function is something into his possibility.
In this way Sja-Anat could simply say she was unable to find them once they arrived in Shadesmar, her corrupted spren did what they were supposed to do (they would be able to betray her if Odium start to make the right questions) but something unexpected happened after
In addition while Sja-Anat may have defected it's not clear if all the spren she corrupts have done so as well.
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Hello everyone. In this topic, I'd like to talk about the engineering principles behind Soulcasters, and to a lesser extent Regrowth fabrials and Honorblades. With Oathbringer, we finally have a PoV of someone using an actual Soulcaster, plus some interesting information in the Ars Arcanum and some further knowledge on the Honorblades. So with all that in mind, let's get to it.
First, I'd like to talk about the actual composition of the Soulcasters. From Way of Kings, here is our first actual description of a Soulcaster.
QuoteOn her freehand was a distinctive piece of jewelry: two rings and a bracelet connected by several chains, holding a triangular group of gemstones across the back of the hand. A Soulcaster— the word was used for both the people who performed the process and the fabrial that made it possible.
Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 84). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
Soulcasting fabrials have some limitations that actual Knights Radiants Soulcasting don't seem to have. Not all Soulcasters are able to Soulcast every essence, as stated by Shallan here.
QuoteIt was true; Jasnah really did have a functioning Soulcaster. And a powerful one too. Nine out of ten Soulcasters were capable of a few limited transformations: creating water or grain from stone; forming bland, single-roomed rock buildings out of air or cloth. A greater one, like Jasnah’s, could effectuate any transformation.
Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (The Stormlight Archive, Book 1) (p. 91). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
In addition, Soulcasters are only able to Soulcast things into an essence that has a corresponding gemstone on the fabrial. Emeralds for food, smokestones for smoke, garnets for blood, etc. This is directly different from how Radiant Soulcasting seems to function, as Jasnah uses multiple essences in the battle for Thaylen city without any particular types of gemstones being noted as being drained.
So what are Soulcasting fabrials doing? It appears they are giving limited access to the Transformation surge. It appears that, unlike Shardblades, they have no inherent primary user. It also appears that the process to Soulcast is something people get better with as time passes, but it has devastating side effects on those who use them. We have seen Soulcasters with granite casts to their skin, with vines growing from their eyes, and even those who are turning into smoke. All of these incidences have led me to the follow conclusion
Conclusion: Soulcasting Fabrials create a weak approximation of a Nahel bond
The only ways we have seen on Roshar to access the Surges are various bonds with the sentient Investiture that Rosharans call spren, by being directly Invested by a Shard (Fused), or by holding an Honorblade. We can cross being directly Invested off the list of potential ways Soulcasting fabrials allow access, as the people using them still require contact with the Soulcaster to use it. Likewise I believe we can cross off a bond with a spren, as while the Soulcasting savant feels a presence when she Soulcasts, she does not see anything, and she is far enough into Shadesmar that in my opinion spren should not be able to hide from her. That leaves the Honorblades. The Honorblades grant a link to two Surges to whomever touches them. We see this with Bridge 4 using Jezrien's Honorblade. In addition we see another similarity between the Honorblades and the Soulcasters: the color of the metal.
Quote“Oh, Stormfather,” Jushu said, pulling it out. The device consisted of several chains of silvery metal connecting three large gemstones, one of which was cracked, its glow lost. “Is this what I think it is?”
“A Soulcaster,” Shallan said.
Sanderson, Brandon (2014-03-04). Words of Radiance (The Stormlight Archive, Book 2) (p. 872). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
QuoteThis Blade didn’t have one. Dalinar hesitantly reached out and rested his fingers on its silvery length. It was warm to the touch, like something alive.
“It doesn’t scream when I touch it,” he noted.
The knights, the Stormfather said in his head, broke their oaths. They abandoned everything they’d sworn, and in so doing killed their spren. Other Blades are the corpses of those spren, which is why they scream at your touch. This weapon, instead, was made directly from Honor’s soul, then given to the Heralds. It is also the mark of an oath, but a different type— and does not have the mind to scream on its own.
Sanderson, Brandon (2017-11-14). Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 166). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
I will concede that this is a tenuous connection, however: Honorblades appear to be physical manifestations of Honor's power, much like lerasium, atium, or ettmetal. The color of the metal could be an indication of a shared origin. Both seem to require large amounts of Stormlight to function. Both create a weak bond on touch, and require some time to learn how to use. Honorblades can be dismissed, while Soulcasters cannot, but that could be a property of Soulcasters not being intended as weapons. The link between the two is reinforced in the Ars Arcanum, where Khriss seems to think that Soulcasting fabrials, medallions on Scadrial, and Honorblades all work by similar principles.
QuoteSoulcasters, the devices, were created to imitate the abilities of the Surge of Soulcasting (or Transformation). This is yet another mechanical imitation of something once available only to a select few within the bounds of an Invested Art. The Honorblades on Roshar, indeed, may be the very first example of this— from thousands of years ago. I believe this has relevance to the discoveries being made on Scadrial, and the commoditization of Allomancy and Feruchemy.
Sanderson, Brandon (2017-11-14). Oathbringer: Book Three of the Stormlight Archive (p. 1242). Tom Doherty Associates. Kindle Edition.
What I believe occurs in each case is that the possession of a medallion, Soulcaster, or Honorblade temporarily overwrites the person who is using it's Spiritweb to make them a temporary Metalborn or Surgebinder. In the case of medallions, we are shown that knowledge of what the medallion can do is necessary to unlock it's power. We see this with the weight medallions used in the airships and by the coin Wax acquired from Hoid. Soulcasters do not have this problem as most of Roshar knows what they are on sight, and Honorblades have been sequestered in Shinovar and seem to have been used for training Surgebinders for unknown purpose. Clearly the Shin know what the Honorblades do, and so the Intent is not a problem there either.
This temporary overwrite causes problems for the recipients down the road, however, I think. In the case of Soulcasters and Honorblades, they are required to draw dangerous amounts of Investiture into their Spiritwebs, probably exacerbating any cracks already there and probably giving them an increased likelihood of savantism. Medallions likely don't have this problem as much because of the relatively limited amounts of Investiture in their use.
Anyway, that's my current theory. What do you guys think?
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51 minutes ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:
So, this confirms what I'd wondered from Arclo's spiel about "the surgeon" being Kal. Check. And I'm thinking Dal or Kal or Lift for the one who will redeem us. But who, who, who is "one of them will destroy us"?!!!!!
It's Dalinar, who was going to be Odium's chosen champion.
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1 hour ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:
So I am probably late to the game on this one, but I found this:
And immediately thought of Midnight Essence, which sound like mistwraiths, to me (:
And then Mistwraiths:
Of course, there are stark differences, too, with the biggest being how violent Midnight Essence seems to be, though perhaps Odium has been able to remake them as weapons.
Where do you think we've seen kandras?
As human shaped people, that are not monsters we see explicitly coming from the Midnight Mother, and who predate Kandra by many thousands of years. This is not even remotely possible.
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6 hours ago, Sazedezas said:
So far in the Stormlight Archive, we've seen members of nine orders of Knight Radiant. We've seen a Stoneward in one of Dalinar's visions, and there have been important characters in ask of the other orders. Except for Willshapers.
I mean, there was that one guy NOT. Nothing we've seen yet even suggests a Willshaper. The other spren never mention the Willsgapers' spren even in passing. What is going on with this?
To be fair we haven't seen most of the Orders in Dalinar's visions, and he seems to have gotten really lucky in the Orders that have sprung up around him and his family. If Elkohar had lived, Dalinar would still only have doubled up on Windrunners and Lightweavers.
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31 minutes ago, Wit Beyond Measure said:
There seem to be two outcomes possible: either Venli bonds the new spren or she won't. Going out in the storm will release the previous spren, and so without bonding, Venli would be left with no spren bond and thus in dullform.
Because the parshmen have no gemhearts to hold spren, they cannot form any bonds but they are exactly like dullform in every other way. Note that "slaveform" does not exist in canon, to my knowledge, probably because the parshmen slaves have no forms and cannot have forms.
I think you're reading that quote differently than it's intended. I take it as: either Venli has the proper Intent to bond with the spren and achieve the form that it would give, or she doesn't and bonds with it and gets dullform.
And Parshmen have gemhearts. Implying that somehow humanity ripped out a vital part of their biology and it was returned by a storm is just too large a logical leap.
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1 minute ago, Herald Of Justice said:
I am aware, however Sazed was talking about how it might be possible later on.
Seeing someone go Beyond is as close as we are going to get to Brandon saying someone is deader than dead.
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5 minutes ago, Herald Of Justice said:
So I noticed while reading Oathbringer that May Aladar is described almost the exact same way as Vin. So maybe Sazed found out how bring her back?
Vin went Beyond. She's dead and not coming back ever.
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5 hours ago, I'mAStickFanClub said:
So I was reading The Dictator's Handbook and was suddenly struck with a horrible thought. Kaladin is PERFECTLY positioned to take control of Urithiru and Alethkar from Dalinar and Jasnah. We know that he would never do this because we can see his inner thoughts, but the other characters can't and so might assume that the picture of him as the devoted and incorruptible scion of Dalinar is a facade (like Amaram's was) and act accordingly. Here are the facts as I see them:
1) Kaladin is the most potent warrior among the Radiants when it will count. This is straightforward, not only is he the only one with military training and a shardblade (sorry Dalinar) but he is shown to be a brilliantly gifted fighter in addition. You can (and probably should) make the argument that Jasnah would be more useful on a battlefield with all she can do with soulcasting, but when facing other Radiants who are resistant to soulcasting because of their investiture, the edge goes to Kaladin.
2)The Windrunners are the only order in Urithiru with multiple Radiants. This is not likely to change soon either. Rather, they are likely to expand their lead going forward based on their efforts at recruitment.
3)The Windrunners have dozens of squires to supplement their ranks. Aside from Shallan's three, they are the only order with squires at all and having a bunch of people who can surgebind is the sort of thing that might be useful.
4) There are 1000-ish bridgemen with top notch military training, equipment, and discipline. Moreover, they serve as the only bodyguards for Dalinar, his family, and some of his important commanders and brightlords. We saw how that can be potentially dangerous in the scene between Dalinar and Elhokar near the end of WoK.
5) The Windrunners and the bridgemen are not loyal to Alethkar, Dalinar, or the new queen, but Kaladin personally. History says this doesn't end well. Rome especially got into massive trouble when their armies became more loyal to their commanders than the state.
At least some of these things should be known by the more politically savvy members of the Alethi court. Jasnah specifically has shown a proficiency at the cloak and dagger side of politics during her scene in WoR when she met Ivory for the first time and when the whole Renarin business at the end of OB occurred. It seems at least possible that she considers him a threat to her family dynasty and is contemplating a way to "take care" of him. That is a worst case scenario, but it seems unlikely to me that there won't be some sort of conflict in this area. I would love to hear what everyone thinks.
The highprinces will not follow Kaladin. The kings and queens will not follow Kaladin. So in point of fact, Kaladin is actually in a terrible position right now to take control of Urithuru. It would be a political blunder on par with the assassination of Julius Caesar.
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2 hours ago, RShara said:
It was probably Taravangian. I think he had hints on the voidbringers being the humans being the cause of the Recreance, and so wanted that asap in order to mess with Dalinar. Wasn't he one of the ones that got the translations first, in the meeting between the rulers?
Almost definitely T. Besides the strict deadline, he has a Herald to talk to. There's very little doubt in my mind he knew the Recreance secret a long time ago.
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5 minutes ago, RShara said:
Where is the spike icon when I need it?
I know you want to steal my skills, but you can't.
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Lopen, the One Armed Bridgeman
Told a lot of awful jokes
And if you ever heard them
You would really hope he chokes
All of the other bridgemen
Used to say he was insane
They'd never let poor Lopen
Get away with any of his claims
Then one Weeping Lopen found
He began to glow
Grabbed the spheres from all his friends
Now he can clap hands again!
Now that Lopen has two arms
All the friendly bridgemen hope
Lopen the One Armed Bridgeman
Has no two-armed Herdazin jokes!(No idea why the formatting here is weird, it will not let me fix it)
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9 minutes ago, Ookla the Apostate said:
I saw Mommy kissing Santa Clod...
Something about Vasher... Vashing through the snow?
Flying through the sky
With a sword that learned to talk
Over heads we run
To catch a shiny rock!
Evil all around
Making Nightblood say
Hey Szeth if you could draw me then
We could destroy evil today, Oh
Chorus:
Swing the sword, swing the sword
There's evil all around
O let Nightblood do his thing
And Lift can then chow down!5 -
Hark! The Almighty's Heralds say,
"The Voidbringers have gone away"
Peace on Roshar, no more men fall,
We shall leave, reclaim the Halls
Joyful, all ye nations, rise,
Join our battles in the skies;
With the King of Heralds proclaim,
"We shall claim our home again."Hark! The Almighty's Heralds say,
"The Voidbringers have gone away"
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A little something I threw together. Sung to the tune of "You're Welcome" from Moana by the very talented Dwayne Johnson and Lin Manuel Miranda.
I see what's happening here
You're face-to-face with godhood and it's strange
You don't even know who I am
It's sobering!
It's sad to see how much you humans changedWell pull up a stone, let's begin
Yes, I'm your enemy Odium
Breathe it in
I know it's a lot:
The storms, your plans
So let your first god give you a handWhat can I say except "Let go now"
Of your pain, regret, your fear
Hey, it's OK, it's OK. Let go now
Your old friend Odium is here!Hey, what has two thumbs and and kept you alive
When you were living up in the sky?
This guy!
When you are beat, who takes the Passion from your foe?
You're looking at him, yo!Oh, also I brought you the Thrill
—Let go now—
So you could have fun when you kill
Also, I Invested disease
—Let go now—
To give everyone Surges for freeSo what can I say except let go now
Of that wife that you burned to the bone
There's no need to pray, it's OK,
Let go now
I guess that I could make your pain my ownLet go now, let go now
Well, honestly DalinarSon, seriously I can go on and on
All of the reasons I want you as my champion
Your strength, your pain, your skills
That was how I made you a tool that could kill
I killed your god, split him apart
You're better off, he had no storming heart
What's the lesson? What is the take-away?
Don't mess with Rayse when he's on the breakaway
And every place that I've been
I left a corpse with a victory I win
Devotion, Dominion, Honor, Ambition
Ask the Stormfather what shape they are all in!
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, hey!Well, anyway, let me let go now!
For this wonderful war you're in
Hey, it's OK, it's OK. Let go now!
Well come to think of it, one more thing!Hey, it's your day to let me go now
'Cause I just want to be free
I've got some Shards to kill, let go now
'Cause Rayse can do anything but leave!
Let go now, let go nowGive me your pain!
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2 hours ago, RShara said:
We don't know that. We know he supercharged Kaladin and that it exhausted him. I'm not sure how he could supercharge Kaladin without summoning the Perpendicularity. But either way, the point stands--supercharging someone with Stormlight exhausts him.
I think putting Nightblood in the middle of a perpendicularity like Dalinar summons where all three realms are one would be monumentally bad idea.
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1 hour ago, Heretic said:
Now this struck me as strange for a number of reasons. First, there were only two Shards on Roshar before Odium arrived, so why are there three things listed? Second is that only one of those things actually matches with one of the Shards, Honor and the wind because high storms and such. Stone and spren though don’t really match with Cultivation because when we see her she’s very clearly associated with plants, not stone.
Cultivation is the source of the crem in highstorms, which causes the plants to grow... and hardens into stone.
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1 hour ago, .S.A.M.K.M said:
Why are the unmade the only ones not sent to damnation? it seems that that the fused and void spren are bound there. Now it seems the fused are bound to the ever storm. If the storm could be trapped or bound in some manner, it could let it be used against the fused in some way. Thus dealing with them permanently without the oath pact.
i kinda like the idea of the unmade being trapped on damnation. I have this idea that they could be used as a weapon against the fused.
They aren't because they weren't. The Unmade were active on Roshar in modern times before the Everstorm was. I'm not a huge fan either but I'm not going to argue canon.
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[OB] Why Didn't The Skybreakers Go After Szeth Earlier
in Stormlight Archive
Posted
Ishar, who is also a cornerstone of their religion? Nale might be giving the Skybreakers a false view of what a crazy Herald looks like. He should have taken them to see Jezerin. Also, Szeth seems to travel quickly, infiltrate fast, and get out of town. I'm not sure the Skybreakers are good enough detectives to figure things out, particularly if they didn't know about his list of targets.