alder24

The burn rate is based on the work the power has to do. Like pewter does a lot when burnt, it gives you strength, speed, balance, a bit of healing etc, while copper does a little, just a little cloud. So the more metal is doing, the faster it burns. How I understand it in terms of compounding, is that the more investiture per 1 g of metalmind there is, the faster it burns, as power has to do more work - providing more investiture. So a full metalmind would burn the fastest, while metalminds with 5s of 2x and 10s of 1x (basically the same amount of investiture) would burn very slowly as they are almost empty. So the slowest burn rate for steelmind would be very close to normal steel burn (because the steelmind has very little attribute in it), while the fastest would be much faster than normal steel, as there is a lot of investiture in that metalmind, and thus the power drawn from Preservation has to do a lot of "work". At least that's how I understand it. It might be very wrong.

Aluminum wins, because it's aluminum. Suppression fabrial doesn't contain aluminum as far as I remember. But there is a problem with suppression fabrials - what would it suppress? Infusing it with Voidlight and using enlightenment sprens suppress Stormlight and surges, but not Voidlight and Fused. Using Stormlight/Towerlight and the Sibling, suppress Voidlight and Fused, not Radiants. So how would you make a fabrial that suppress Mistborn who uses the Dor? It's not just that simple like taking Tower fabrial. Because it's aluminum allomancy. Aluminum blocks all investiture and invested arts. Tower fabrial is made out of garnets, Fused one is made out of the same gems and unknown metal or alloy, likely tin. I doubt it has aluminum wires as those would block the signal of a fabrial in that direction. It does perfect sense why Aluminum would do that. And based on Ars Arcanum, suppression fabrial would be categorized as a diminishing fabrial, it doesn't fully block use of investiture. Because this is not a regular Mistborn, this is a Dor powered one, every metal he uses is far more powerful than regular, and he has more power than regular Mistborn to use. Marasi created a bubble with the perpendicularity that lasted hours, and there were dozens of Mistings using that perpendicularity. So it can last longer, and would be far more powerful (bigger range and stronger effects) than a normal Mistborn powered cube. Because he start pushing coins, when they are outside of the area, and gain momentum, speed and energy, so when coins fly into the area, and he cannot push on them anymore, they already are fast and destructive. They wouldn't just drop into a ground, they have momentum. Unlike a Windrunner, who goes 300mhp aiming at the Mistborn and flying into an aluminum cube area. His lashing is blocked, and he is attracted to the ground again, causing him to smash into it with a colossal speed. Not a great day for Windrunner.

Oh god, why? I'm not mentally prepared for this... So I'm not gonna give F-steel medallion for Mistborn yet, but F-gold medallion would be very handy and allow him to finnaly heal few cuts from a Shardblade. And to be fair I love the combination of F-zinc + A-electrum, even if the effects would be limited compared to a Fullborn, but having 2/3 times faster brain processing during a fight is a huge advantage + future vision of yourself. So medallion gives those 2 powers, as I think 3 metals in a medallion is a limit for now (nicrosil+gold+zinc, correct me if I'm wrong). I'm just gonna focus on primer cubes instead. Aluminum charged primer cube is a huge advantage for Mistborn. Reverse lashings would stop working, all surges as well, all fabrials too including suppressor fabrial @therunner, so even if you have that Tower surge-suppressor fabrial, A-cube would make it obsolete. It could potentially disturbed a living Shardplate, and prevent Radiant from summoning his Shardblade. Keep in mind this is aluminum we're talking about, so it's effects would be full, and not like those in the Tower, Ideal 5 Radiant would still be fully affected by aluminum. Then use another Chromium charged cube, and it would drain Stormlight from lashings, fabrials and exposed Radiant. It would prevent Shardplate healing. And those both cubes would last for hours, judging from Marasi powering her cube with a fraction of the power of Perpendicularity. So he can easily charge them to last for 5 minutes without losing much power. So if a Mistborn aimed those cubes well, struck a Radiant, and pushed metals from a distance, avoiding being trapped in cube's area, into his plate to crack it and destroy some fragments, then Radiant would die, unable to heal.

Yes, like strength gained from burning/tapping pewter. It might be possible to steal those things without stealing the attribute, in the same way you can store them (I think there was WoB on that, I can't find it now). They are, but I doubt they are not made in the same way Koloss spikes are. There is something more to it. If it was just that easy, why only the Lord Ruler prepared spikes for Kandra in secrecy? Kandra don't know how to make them, and they are different from Koloss spikes. I know this, that's why I don't like the idea of stealing attributes gained by Allomancy/Feruchemy, as those attributes are only temporary, But I found a WoB that mostly kills this thought of mine: Notice the use of "most of them" not "all of them". So some Kandra Blessings could be made out of Metalborns. And I hope that's not just the Bleeder spike.

I'm claiming that there is only one type of decay, which is caused by weakening of Feruchemy over generations, and the whole WoB was about it. I can see investiture being used to transfer attributes into metalminds, it's a work after all, but until more WoBs become available, we won't reach a conclusion. And that is totally fine. Good discussion.

Good point on Blessings. But that would require to prepere spike like for a Blessing, so few more unknown steps are required. Only Harmony knows how to do it. But this gave me an idea - what if Blessings are made by stealing Allomantic granted attributes? Like you said, Potency steals pewter attributes, Awareness steals tin senses. But Stability and Presence don't really fit it.

Yes, but as long as a stample is working, the "fake" soul is the new ideal. After it's gone, old ideal is forcing to change back to what it was. TLM spoilers:

I gave a WoB form 2019, a very recent one, that says it's hard to do. The only more recent one is from 2022, which says "it's possible", which doesn't contradict that it's hard or that there is a connection issue. So nothing is overwritten here. I highly recommend giving a warning before a spoiler tag, to inform what book it spoils. TLM spoilers: Both Atium and Lerasium are as invested as a Shardblade, and there is no problem with fitting hemalurgic charge there.

No, I don't think so. Soulstamping creates a fake soul, that overwrites your real one. So you create a new spiritual ideal of yourself, and healing is done to that new ideal.

This WoB is not about normal Feruchemical decay, so is not a WoB proving your point. Do you even read what I am writing? No, generational decay started with the second generation of Feruchemists being born, thousands of years before Era 1. Since then it was progressively growing "bigger" with every new generation. No, generational decay was present during Era 1, and weakened Feruchemy to some small degree up to this point. If it was a noticeable difference, characters would have brought it up. If it was important part of the Feruchemy mechanics, Brandon would have explained it to us on multiple occasions. The WoB you constantly referring to clearly states that this decay is not a lot. He might not be, but the difference would be once again negligible Because walking isn't a contributing factor in basic mechanics of the magic system, but power decay is. We are constantly told in books, annotations and WoBs that Feruchemist can store 1h of 50% attribute and then tap it for 1h without any noticeable loss. So, it is as close to 1:1 as possible, which even your WoB tells us. Brandon confirmed that there is a generational decay, weakening Feruchemy, so it isn't 1:1, but he also stated it is a very small loss, so small that "Feruchemy generally I would say is not much weaker than it was before". So the decay in Feruchemy is in fact negligible in the story, in math, and in assumptions for any theory and discussions, and it isn't wrong to write that "Feruchemist can store 1h of 50% attribute and then tap it for 1h to be 150% of attribute".

Ouch, that hurts more than anything else. You are a bad person.

Possibly, but that would be a minimal amount of Stormlight, which would require a minimal amount of leeching. They would still have roughly equal amounts of investiture. Not significant to make a difference. There is a reason, kill him. Lasing stones into him is hard to aim, when he moves, and has a bendalloy. I doubt it. Keep in mind that is something that Vin invented, and nobody did that ever before. Elend couldn't replicate it perfectly. And maneuverability is very hard, you could only do turns by wide arches. If the coin hit a plate and didn't crack it, pushing it more won't crack it. If the coin cracks it, then there is a crack, and the coin has no energy, as it was stopped by a plate, so pushing it more won't do anything more. If the coin gets into the crack, adhesion won't "push" it back. So I don't know what you're thinking now. Open perpendicularity -> go to CR -> play with "out of range" Mistborn and his connections Heal with the power provided by open perpendicularity, or refill your gems constantly. Mistborn has no way of killing a Bondsmith. @Frustration Mistborn has Dor, he doesn't need metals, he has other source for power. Like Vin when drawing in Mists, or Elend when fighting Marsh. So Mistborn would run out of "bendalloy" when he would run out of Dor. How fast it would be, no idea, most likely not that fast. But still it would consume more Dor than steel.

No, he's talking about the same thing. "I would say that if you're going to get a weakening of Feruchemy, which you're asking about, is the amount of stored attribute you get for lost attribute". There is no attribute decay in tapping at the same speed other than the one from generational decay. Feruchemy has been existing for more than 2000 years, in that time it got weaker by attribute decay, which is negligible. The attribute decay is the effect of generational decay, and nothing else. There is no difference in power between Feruchemists living in the same time period, so there is no attribute decay, only generational one. And uno reversing your "narrative argument", Brandon in that WoB literally tells us that it's bearly anything because of narrative reasons. The only attribute decay is in Hemalurgicaly granted Feruchemy, and it's because of Hemalurgy. You won't convince me that it's different based on that single WoB. And no, comparing different Feruchemists explaining how Feruchemy works in 6 books is way different and significant than "remark about how their foot moves when they walk". It's in no way a valid argument. Not to mention many WoBs explaining how Feruchemy works, without mentioning any decay, proving again it is very negligible.

Stormfather

The soul and limp of Kandra would be like a human, but they can change shapes and regrow it so they have a way to overcome that - but I guess the cut off part of the soul will remain dead. Cutting their spine won't kill them, because they don't use it like humans, so you won't kill Kandra with one strike.

I don't know, your Shardblade was on the other hand when you suddenly had a brief opportunity to touch Mistborn? You enjoy causing physical pain? You love the smell of napalm cooked human flesh in the morning? No idea, it might happen.

Possibly. But what Forgery does is it creates a fake soul out of Investiture on top of your on, that overwrites it. And that fake soul is powered by the Dor, as it's still Forgery. So even if you make that on somebody from Scadrial, it is still made out of the Dor, as normal non-allomancers don't have that strong connection to Preservation to become a Mistborn, so you need to Forge it, and replace it with stronger connection made out of the Dor. So you are still getting issues of different invested arts. And like the WoB says, which you posted in your 1st post, you need "right kind of investiture". Your idea might be a sneaky way to go around that. It might work. I'm not sure now, but still I doubt it, because the connection isn't that strong.

What I think is happening with strenght of Allomancy, is that your soul has a hole in it, and it gets filled with connection to Preservation in SR (that Preservation's fragment in you). The size of that hole determinates how much power can you draw from Preservation. Burn rate is the same, but the amount of power given to Elend is greater than to Vin. So it's like a pipe, the wider the pipe the more you get from it. But there is a limit, as your soul would get to damaged so that "hole" can't get too big. That's what I think is happening. That extra fragment of Preservation's power fills a hole in your soul, connecting you to Preservation. How big is that extra fragment determines how strong is that connection, and how much can you draw from Preservation. You can increase it by ingesting Lerasium. But there is an upper limit of how big that hole in your soul can be, without damaging you - and this is the limit of power you can gain from Preservation. I disagree. The limit is there, but Vin wasn't drawing from SR, she was drawing it from PR, where Mists were, and holding it in her body, like Stormlight, which caused her to leak Mists. The same with Bands. They didn't draw from Preservation and SR, they drew from within, circumventing the limitation. She's accessing the power in a different way, without the need for metals. I think that body vaporization was because she drew enough to forge a very strong connection to Preservation, and she Ascended. If Leres was still holding Preservation, she would at best Ascend in a way similar to Well (where I think she also transcended her physical body), if not, she would just be highly invested. Yeah, there are contradicting WoBs on that, at one point Brandon thought he got powers from Lerasium, later he wasn't sure, and then he canonized that he got them from the Well. I think Rashek was still more powerful in terms of drawing from Preservation than Elend. Eland wasn't able to push on traces metals, push spikes (Bands can do that, Rashek pushed Vin's earring) not to mention smoothing the entire city population to the state of complete misery. While skill and savantism did increase his power, I do believe that he was still stronger than a Lerasium Mistborn. Maybe if the Lerasium bead was bigger, Elend could get as strong as Rashek. I wish we had a clear WoB on Rashek power compared to Elend. He could be, it was said that he knew when people were lying, which he could do by listening to their heart beat in search of change. Could Spook do it? I don't remember. While there are nasty negative effects, he could minimize them by storing/tapping tin. They were extremely invested, Vin did it only with the help of Mists, he didn't have that. I doubt he could do it anyway.

That's why you need to provide Investiture from an outside source, because you can't draw it from the Dor. Even by forging yourself to be a Mistborn, you are still using Forgery, which draws from the Dor. The Dor however is unable to provide that much investiture for you, so you need something else.

Elantris 2 or 3 will be written one day, so one day we will get an explanation of what is happening with them when they become Elantrians.

You can forge yourself to be a Mistborn, but you need to provide investiture from which you will be drawing. You're not going to be drawing from Preservation, like normally, you need another source for that. So even if you forge yourself to be a spiked Metalborn, and then heal, you still need an external source of investiture to be able to use your powers.

It's a viable theory, but I don't think so. It's possible he had a Trellium spike in him. If every Feruchemical piercing was damaging your soul, then all Keepers would be as easily controlled by Ruin as Koloss, yet there was nothing like this, no whispering even, and Sazed went through Era 1 without any weird stuff. So I think he got a Trellium spike, which hid him from Harmony, and opened him to Trell's influence, and that's why he said what he said during his execution. After all he did convert to Trellism.

I see that problem too. It all depends on how fast chromium leaching can be when powered by the Dor. Because other powers get extremely more powerful, it is reasonable to assume that leeching also is more powerful and drains far more per second than normally. So at best the damage done by Division would be minimal, as leeching would be just so much faster. But that's speculative, so let's not argue in that direction.

No, that's not the case. The number of Breaths needed for Awakening is tied to the material used (how close to life it is), it's shape, focus (human hair for example) and Command. The more complicated Command, the more Breaths it needs. Visualization of that Command is a very important thing, as with proper visualization, you can achieve more using simple Commands. What is increasing with the number of Breaths is instinctive understanding of simple Commands and its visualization (maxed out at 6th Heightening). No, I don't think so. Elend draws more investiture from Preservation than Vin, and thus is more powerful. But their skill is also a factor. Vin, despite the fact that she draws less investment than Eland, is more skilled, and can use it more efficiently. So with this, I think that the reason Radiants are getting more efficient at using Stormlight when progressing in their Ideals has to do with the fact that their spren is getting closer to them, and possibly fits better within cracks in Radiant's soul, thus bringing Radiant closer to SR. But that is a speculative explanation. They are still getting the same amount of it, as this is determined by their Spiritual DNA. They are getting more efficient at using it, and can do more. Yeah, there is likely a limit of how much you can draw from Preservation when burning metals. Rashek got to that limit by using the power of the Well, and was still considerably more powerful than Elend, as Lerasium granted powers doesn't reach that limit. Plus he was more skilled and was a savant in every metal, so he got to the top of all 3 scales.

BoM, ch 23, Wayne removing spearhead for the statue: Yes, I don't think a metalmind Shardblade (Mindblade?) would cut like a Shardblade, but it would resist it, and that's a big help when fighting a Shardblade. Aluminum would likely be much better but still. It might do some Shardblade-like-damage, but I think you would need to do something more to make it cut truly like a Shardblade. After all, you can replicate any form of invested arts with another type of invested art.