alder24

They tried this during Desolation, and traveled from Roshar to Braize. Yeah, that's what I get when I write faster than I think Yes, That's why I wrote "on Earth'', but I should write "from Earth's point of view" to make it clear. But Windrunner can't reach speed of light, he can only approach it It's so fun to go on a short trip to another star and return just to see graves of your loved ones

Yes, Spear can be dissmissed. That's what makes it harder, as it won't work everytime, or even most of the times. And this is why I wanted to take away F-pewter. It's harder to hit and you need to catch them to kill, not just punch them once in the head. Being as fast or slightly faster than a Windrunner would certainly help with dodging, esspecially as Fullborn can use zinc to calculate blade's path. So this will help him keep up with Radiant, not all the times. A-electrum, F-chromium and F-zinc will also help in limited way. Kaladin was following Leshwi, who can only lash herself once, so Kaladin was using only 1 or 2 lashings (not mentioned) and when approaching the crowd, he still reduced his speed, as he thought that colliding with someone would be too dangerous. Then he flies up to avoid the crowd. Later Leshwi tried that again with her one lashing, and this time she collided with a group of people, when Kaladin stayed above them and almost sliced her. And in the very next paragraph Kaladin noted that because Fused can't fly as fast as Windrunners, they focus on sharp turns and maneuvering around objects, which force Windrunners to reduce their speeds. This fight proves my point, that among narrow streets and sharp turns, Mistborn would have an advantage over Windrunner, as Windrunner can't move that fast. If they tried to move much faster, they would miss a turn, collide with a building, or with those speeds they won't be able to react to Fullborn changing directions, jumping out on them etc. So RoW ch 5 proves that in urban combat, Windrunner would be far limited than on the open field. Keep in mind, G-forces still canonically affect Windrunners somehow.

Yes it can. It would still evaporate from their body, so perfect gemstones would be handy. They would use their Stormlight to provide oxygen for their cells, heal injuries caused by no pressure and radiation. But radiation injuries won't be severe, or won't drain a lot of Stormlight, as radiation poisoning is dangerous in the long term, not immediately after being irradiated. So Stromlight would heal broken DNA chains caused by radiation, not much to heal tbf. Oxygen and pressure will be far bigger drainage of Stormlight, And as proven by Fused, they won’t be able to use this way to go to another planet, even in their star system. Having a plate would help a lot, as it will hold a little bit of air in it, and protect him from pressure causing injuries and maybe even some radiation. Not enough air to breath however. Windrunners can manipulate pressure, and can bring with them a bubble of air around them. But here is a problem - that would have to be a big bubble to provide enough oxygen to sustain them in the journey. I think someone made calculations here on the forum on how fast can Windrunner travel between planets of the Solar System. And with a lot of lashings he can easily travel between planets within hours or days. Can’t remember now, it was a few months ago, but Windrunner can make that trip quite fast. But using lashings to go to another star system is a no-no. On Earth it would still take 4.25 light years for a Windrunner, moving at the speed of light, to get to Proxima Centauri, the closeststar to the Sun.

Yes, that's what I'm proposing. I feel like we already exhausted the Fullborn vs Windrunner topic so why not change some weird stuff. I don't want to give F-pewter to Fullborn, as this is his second best weapon against Windrunner. So Fullborn needs to get more sneaky. At first I thought Fullborn can mostly win on the ground like 70%, he can close in on Windrunner, even take a Shardblade cut in non lethal area and keep breaking his neck with A-pewter and leeching him out of Stormlight. But Winndrunner has no reasons to stay on the ground. He can get airborne and harass Fullborn from a relatively safe height of 15 feet with a long spear. That's why I take away F-pewter, Fullborn would be able to steel push, jump, grab a spear and pull Windrunner closer and smash his head. But now, it's not that easy. Even if Fullborn gets in the air and hits Windrunner, it won't kill him. Using steelpush will get him in the air, but there Windrunner has better maneuverability. Windrunner can keep poking Fullborn until he runs out of healing, so Fullborn doesn't have much time. A-pewter and A-bendalloy will help him a lot in avoiding Windrunner's strikes, but he has a hard time now to catch him. He needs to get to Windrunner's neck and keep breaking it while leeching. That's now harder. So in this scenario I think Windrunner has a big advantage, and a 70% chance of winning. Or we can change a fighting area. Till this point we assume they are fighting on an open field. What if they are fighting in Elendel? Lot's of metal, lot's of anchors, lot's of tight corners, spaces, turns and narrow roads, many buildings and rooms to hide it. Fighting in the city, low to the ground, would give a huge advantage to Fullborn, and will finally allow him to fully use steel and iron Allomancy. Windrunner can't move as fast as he wants to, and every corner might be a death trap for him. Now Fullborn is dominating the air. Windrunner would be better off staying on the ground, moving slowly, and using his spren to scout out every position, to make sure Fullborn isn't there, and use spren to warn him about incoming Fullborn. Staying on a small open park or square, would be a smart move for Windrunner to do. Getting into a chase among narrow and bendy roads of Elendel would be disadvantageous for Windrunner and most likely will end with his death. While this seems as a possible explanation at first, when you think about it, it completely breaks volume even further. Energy holding quarks together is in form of Strong Nuclear Forces - the bigger the force, the closer quarks are together. This means that proton/neutron "sphere of energy" would be smaller, so smaller protons/neutrons, and they would attract other protons/neutrons stronger, which would bring them closer together, as this is also done by Strong Nuclear Forces. You would end up with smaller atoms, which can get closer together with other atoms, which would increase density and decrease the size of that object. So that’s not really a good solution.

Mistborn would likely be able to leech illusions. Mistborn will detect with bronze summoning a Shardblade, and Soulcasting. Turning Shardblade into a shield would mean that coins will be stopped by it and Mistborn would know via steelsight where Lightweaver is. If Mistborn is trained enough, he can have Inquisitor level of steelsight, capable of detecting and seeing via traces levels of metals in environment, completely bypassing Lightwever's illusions. The same darkness would blind Lightweaver as well. They can't see through their illusions. Check OB chapter when Shallan created an illusion of rock outside of Kholinar city, she had to make eyeholes to be able to look outside of that illusion. So all of your ideas won't work, because Lightweaver is blinded even more than a Mistborn. Average Lightweaver of 3rd Ideal need to touch it to Soulcast it. Possible, difficult to maintain, but they need to know and see how it looks like, that Mistborn can see via steelsight in the first place to make those illusions believable. @PinkPlasma instead of triple posting, you can edit your post by clicking "edit" at the bottom of your post.

That isn't surprising, I personally thought Honor would return by the end of W&T (new name of SA5! You will love it Frustration!), and even fuse Shards of Honor and Odium later on. And there is this WoB, which says traditionally fixing Shards wasn't Bondsmith's set of power, now however they are far away from any traditions as they are unchained. And this one says that Dalinar can take parts of two Shards and create a new Shard out of them So yeah, Honor is coming back.

It's easy on Scadrial, I take future sight, and I will become an almost undefeatable fighter. There is lot's of fighting happening on Scadrial. Era 1 or 2, it's always useful. On Earth, well, I don't fight here, so Atium Allomancy isn't so useful here. Unless I became a professional boxer or sportsman, Atium's future vision isn't that useful in daily life, so I will take compounding. While I don’t want to live 1000 years, being always young, and being able to chose the age I want to be can be a handy tool.

Can we just back down a little bit? We've been talking in circles for so long now that we made a hole, and it's getting unnecessarily hot here. The truth is, this WoB is ambiguous and can be interpreted in many different ways. Arguing over semantics is always pointless. The WoB answers the question if F-iron stores mass or weight, and only mentions punching using the weird phrase "mass transfer into someone else '', which for me makes 0 sense as there is no mass transfer during a punch. What’s transferred is energy, not mass. Mass of the guy punching, and the other one who’s being punched, stays the same before and after the punch, so no mass is transferred during a punch. That sentence in the WoB just makes no sense, and proves nothing for me. And it doesn't really make a difference for our Fullborn and Windrunner. Fullborn can "fall" on Windrunner, tapping iron, and crush his plate into thousands of pieces. He can punch his plate, with or without iron, it doesn't matter, and still smash that plate's segment into hundreds of pieces. Fullborn can punch Windrunner's head like he's serving a volleyball. no matter how any of those situations would happen, Fullborn has the power to do those things. So it doesn't matter if tapping mass is increasing his kinetic energy (Ek=(mv^2)/2) during a punch or not. So can we just stop this whole thing about Wax, Sazed and F-iron now? Just agree to disagree, no quoting, no answering, let's move on and go back to Fullborn vs Windrunner? We've taken away Fullborn's steel, and while we all have different opinions, we can mostly agree that it's 50-50 with an advantage for a Windrunner. What if we take away Radiant's Plate, as that's his biggest advantage? Windspren have a day off to chill out in Purelake. To equalize the field, Fullborn also loses F-pewter (no one-punch man), but still has A-pewter, and he can't duralumin smooths/riots Radiant (too op without a Plate), but can smooths/riots regularly for some reason. And to make it even more interesting, he forgot his goldminds, and has no Miles levels of health but just Wayne's levels, with which he can still heal a few Shardblade cuts, but has to be more cautious. No iron tapping when punching, to avoid jumping back to this hole. Who do you guys think would win now?

You are talking about Wax, WoB is about F-iron, laws of physics and Brandon's reasoning are arbitrary, not punches. And while boxers put whatever mass they put in their punches, it still isn't 100%, so there is still no 1000 pounds of transfer. Arguing for 3 pages about it, is just pointless. This WoB is ambiguous at best and doesn't prove your point.

Yeah, he doesn't, because his fist weighs 10 pounds so only 10 pounds is "transferring" (whatever it means) during a punch. This WoB is in no way a definite proof that increasing your mass does nothing when punching. Falling on someone crushes him, because F=ma, so why punches shouldn't be affected by F-iron, when it's the same force F=ma, but instead taking a mass of a whole body, you take only the mass of a hand/arm? Wax isn't a boxer, or hand to hand fighter like Wayne, he is a marksman, he shoots from a gun, not do excellent punches. This is a reason why he doesn't use F-iron when punching. He doesn't have instincts for it.

Not exactly, but maybe to some degree - F-iron is too tricky. Sazed had to tap pewter, when he was tapping iron, to compensate for his increased weight, when holding gates of Luthadel during siege. WoA ch 53. Tapping iron does provide the ability to uphold new weight, but it has its limits. Does it? When was it said?

Well, it is theorized that Dalinar will pick up Honor Shard at some point, which requires fixing it somehow. This WoB suggests that Bondsmiths weren't able to have that powers before, but now Dalinar is a bondsmith unchained, he can do much more that Bondsmiths used to. So who knows. And this WoB says it's possible for a Bondsmith now to fuse parts of two Shards together So it's likely that Bondsmith can unite Shard of Honor.

No. He had only iron and steel. Steel as a bars of his cell, iron as a lock. He used iron from lock to strike with a hammer.

Yes it does. You need to catch a proper spren type in a proper gemstone. What do you think would happen if you catch a coldspren in a Heating fabrial? Would it generate heat like flamespren/heatspren in heating fabrials? Logicspren are used to make fabrial clocks. If you want to read more about fabrials, you can read Coppermind wiki : https://coppermind.net/wiki/Fabrial

What if, because they don't have a limb, they could regrow their body in the direction of a severed part and just reconnect it? But from a different direction than where it was cut off.

I agree mostly with you. Here I say Fullborn can use A-electrun with F-zinc and F-chromium and he would get a very similar effect to Atium or better. It can help to gain time, move faster, dodge, not when already touching Radiant, but using it just before strike to replace F-steel, it would confuse Radiant, and made his move hard to catch by his eye. But he did increased his weight when swinging his hammer at kandra during jailbreak that striked with greater force.

Welcome to the Shard! Rust and Ruin! You're already on Era 3 when all of us just finished Era 2?

It doesn't have to be said, just see it in books. Adoilin fighting in Kholinar during the attack on the palace! OB ch 83. He constantly dodges to avoid being speared. He "stepped back nimbly", "jumped to the side", "leaned over low" etc. The same moves apply to the fight against a Shardbearer without a Shardplate. Dalinar fighting against Szeth on Narak in WoR. You don't take a Shardblade cut, you try to dodge it or block it if you can, like with a regular weapon. It basics of sword fight. And the very thing kaladin did on the training arena, to which Zahel said "everyone need to face a Shardblade like Kaladin". Training with Zahel, ch 44 WoR. Why? They have both Feruchemical and Allomantic ability, compounding is possible, Marsh in era 2 proves it. You were talking about burned tissue being healed with cold tissue. There are still non-believers! We need to convert them! All hail the steel supremacy! But yes, we should move on. Ok, I use my superpower - definition of the word weapon: "a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage". And the word thing: "an object that one need not, cannot, or does not wish to give a specific name to.". And the word object: "a person or thing to which a specified action or feeling is directed." So yes, Fullborn is a weapon. Let's not argue semantics. Radiant has an advantage by having a Shardblade, this is not disputable.

Because the antelopes can run 80–96 km/h as well, cheetahs are built fully to be fast, skinny and small, and live in small groups, or alone, where Lions move in big pride and are 5x heavier and even they can reach 80 km/h. Fullborn can be as fast as he wants, as big as he wants, as strong as he wants. Bow, arrow, spear and a several times bigger brain might have some factor in this. Don't you think? But a big cat doesn't have a brain big enough, to understand pointy stick hurts. Fullborn can think as fast as he runs, and make corrections in reaction to Radiant's wide strikes.

No, that was not my point. Brass melts at 930 degree C. It's a waste of healing. Pointless unless you can be sure it won't kill you and you will kill Radiant with that move. What amount needed for what? We've already try to explain innerworkings of Compounding couple of pages back. Helaran attacked Kaladin when he came close, but never once went out of his way to fight him. How is that the same for you?? He attacked Kaladin "The Shardbearer swung his Blade out in the same wide sweep he’d used to kill so many of Kaladin’s men." They were already close, just ignore the thoughts of Kaladin, as he didn't stand still when he was thinking, he was moving and acting. It was a very dynamic and short fight, both did like 2-4 moves, but it was Kaladin who was aggressive and therefore Helaran reacted. When fullborn can punch your head off, he is a weapon. 1/2 is first compression /2 = 1/4 second compression, /2 = 1/8 third compression. That's 12.5%. 100% -> 50% -> 25% -> 12.5%. 3 times.

Tell this to Windrunners and Edgedancers.

It isn't destroyed. That investiture from metalminds is used to imprint on new investiture coming from Preservation. Really, didn't fight? Didn't try to kill him? Martial arts includes weapons. And a Fullborn is a weapon himself. Fair, there was a connection, he used Stormlight before, but did he use it during his fights? Only then it could count. And it's not just about the last clap, it's about dodging a blade which is a standard practice when fighting a Shardbearer. Yeah, it would. like every fight against a Shardbearer. Kaladin and his non-invested people face a Shard on the arena and dodge it. It's possible. There is in book evidence of this. So it's not possible but Inquisitors did it just like I said? By wanting to burn it like regular metal to gain allomantic charge? So if the healed flesh would have brass temperature, then why would gold heal it when your body recognises that temperature as a correct one?

I've missed that part

I wasn't talking about just speed, but keeping up mentally with someone moving and thinking at those speeds. Reacting to a hand moving 200 km/h right in front of you would be impossible for a Windrunner. Depending on the distance between them. The closer Fullborn is, the less possible it becomes.