WhiteLeeopard

I agree, with your post. But Greece was particular in that they were very advanced in philosophy, politics, they were quite open minded about some areas of the world, and knew more of science than was known two thousand years later in the middle ages. Greece is basically an unusual case, which was as advanced as we are in some areas or even more advanced, but quite backwards in others. This is a very good point I hadn't realized. Part of why women in Europe had little role in politics and world affairs is they were often pregnant, and frequently died in childbirth. Nearly all the famous queens and noblewomen were either barren, unmarried, or uncapable of having more childrenas they were too young when they first fell pregnant. Considering in Roshar women have a much smaller chance of dying in childbirth it makes sense they have a bigger role. And I just realized how off topic I went .

Yes, I likely was too extreme. But honestly, my words weren't meant only for one side of the conflict here, but for both. When there is trouble, its seldom only one side's fault, but both are to blame. Your post was polite and clear, it was a good example of what in my opinion this topic should be debated as . But I find the ocassional extreme posts are swaying the discussions and atmosphere too much (and I'm not talking about the opinions talked about in those posts, as I don't have a problem with what people think, but rather how it is said or the regularity with which posts derive into personal assaults). Adolin is a nice character, but will never become a protagonist. Yet I cannot help but feel the reason for the extreme opinions about Adolin in most of the shard come because of the arguments of the other side. Another example is the stick, some people loved the stick, others were indifferent to it. With time and the amount of posts regarding the stick some people loved the stick even more, while some hated it simply because of the regularity with which it was brought up.

Adolin is one of my favorite characters. I have also stopped participating or reading most threads about him or the love triangle, because even when they start out well and polite they inevitably turn into sheer hatred. It can be either hatred of Adolin, hatred of the situation, hatred of the writing. In general I call threads touching on Adolin that last longer than 3 pages "Adolin-bashing". I wish that everyone on the 17th Shard would either keep the darkness to limited threads or turn more polite. There are nice ways of giving your opinion without spewing poison. It is also quite indicative that both times in this forum in the past few months Chaos had to come in and give a warning to watch the tone it was due to Adolin related posts. I dislike the negativity on principle. However, I also dislike that it means people like me that want to talk and read opinions of the topic in an amicable manner cannot do so without turning uncomfortable of the atmosphere.

Probably, considering this WoB and simple deduction of which worlds we have seen. I highlighted the part relating to this at the end.

A secret can only be kept when one person knows it and they don't say it to a soul. As soon as you add 1 more person to the mix its not a secret any more, much less 3 more. Kaladin knew it, but he is so close lipped he was safe enough. Shallan's brothers don't seem the kind capable of having the nerves or self-control to not let it slip or tell it to someone to get out of a tough situation. Killing her father won't be too serious, considering he had just killed his wife and crippled his oldest living son. However it will show people that Shallan is not the wide-eyed innocent everyone took her for.

Was it "kidnapped and killed" or "killed by asassins"? In any case Adolin thinks Sadeas took advantage of Dalinar's injuries and grief to then burn Rathalas to the ground. The mess which Shallans brothers will make in Urithiru is something I'm really looking forward to.

Shallan's brothers don't know all of her past (her mother), but I bet they will sooner rather than later spill ther guts on her killing her father. At the same time her brothers (specially Balat) may be resentful that she ended up married to a highprince, specially when added to her status as a KR. They all loved her, but when your little sister unexpectedly ends up one of the most important people in Roshar despite been 18 years old, some bitterness may flare up. Whatever happens in book 4 with Shallan's brothers I doubt it will be pleasant. Balat will likely be a problem, and he may come to a head with the Kholins eventually if he continues on the path he was on. Perhaps the end of the world and coming to Urithiru stops him from what he was doing, but he always seemed a problem to me. Jushu will probably also cause issues with his gambling addiction. Wikim is the only one that might add something good, maybe befriending Renarin or even attracting a spren.

@Kaladins Did you see this thread? I think its the most recent thread I saw touching on this topic, although I think the final consensus was that Kaladin was not gay. However you add new interesting points .

I think I was also one of the people to most vehemently loathe your SA favorites and explain why they were doomed . That been said Amaram's final move caught me by surprise and I wasn't fully convinced by it. I am also slightly fond of Nale. I keep having hope for him and half-expect him to make another about-turn eventually.

Thats a neat idea. If that happens it will probably be Nale-Szeth, since Szeth is familiar with all surges, and has a slight teacher-pupil relationship with Nale. Plus Nightblood may be required for a full Yelig-Nar holder. I just hope its not Moash who ends up holding it.

At the same time, maybe the fact it kills its holder after a matter of hours is a counter-balance to this. But I agree, Yelig-Nar was a bit over the top. Then again many Unmade were. Nergaul turning an entire platoon of troops against their own people? Ashertman turning the leaders and religious priests into the maximun orgy in Roshar (I don't actually know when that began, was it already happening in the interlude of WoR)? Sja-anat turning the spren of the Oathgate so it works how and when Odium wants?

My opinion is this poll is the best thread on the triangle I have seen. Pure statistics on opinons around the 17th Shard.

I loved it, and the weekly discussions were great. However, I think I would go insane if I had to read a Sanderavalanche in tiny weekly pieces. It can't be good for the mind to not be able to read those in one go...

How can those books have more fans than SA? They are nice to read once and thats it, SA you can read 5x and still come back for more.

Kaladin would loathe been High King, I doubt he would ever accept that. Not to mention he does not really have the experience to rule a country, or for diplomacy and politics. I don't see the second part happening. The first part of what you say and marrying into the Kholins to make that symbol, maybe.

Why did Nale decide to side with the owners of the land now instead of in the past 8 thousand years? Or even on the past 4500 years, as he has been insane for that long? Why does Rock keep hiding so much of his past from Bridge 4? Its not as if they haven't all shown to have big pasts, huge things to be ashamed of and not really be who they first pretended to. How happy is Nightblood with his current holder? Why is he withholding his name?

I didn't say it was bad luck, simply so shocking the poor spren may need some time to recover .

What if Felt is a member of the Ghostbloods? He is a worldhopper, he is a scout with close access to the Kholins and therefore interesting information, he seems capable of blending in easily and gaining the trust of people and have no-one questioning his presence. What if this is how he should stand out? By making us wonder if he is a member of a secret society?

Maybe put this on SA forum too, as some people may just go there directly nowadays (since its currently the most active part of the Shard).

If you want to add another point, I think there is a good chance Windrunner 4th Oath is about been more coolly logical and knowing when to protect, and Elsecaller 4th Oath about doing what is right regardless of logic. If that is true they could help each other on their respective 4th Oaths . Slight correction .

If Jasnah marries I absolutely don't think her husband would have the title of king, it would probably be Prince or Consort. Like you say, it may be out of the usual. However, IRL the problem of aristocracies for women to rule was often not that the nobles disliked the idea of a woman ruling, but that they knew if she married her husband would rule in her place, and they didn't want to risk a random husband that might not be one of them ruling the country. This would probably be present enough in SA that I doubt any queens that rule (like in Thaylen) and are married would grant the husband the title of king. Actually this is even showcased in modern monarchies which have a million less power than they used to. Monarchies where the king is the heir tend to have both the king and queen in place (Spain, Belgium). Yet when the women are the heirs they are the queen and the husband is usually prince or some other title, but not king (UK, Denmark). Its a good point too. My argument is that Jasnah would probably not care about the lighteye rule, her single political aim for marrying Kaladin would be so that house kholin is not swept out during the Desolation and destroyed. KR don't look like the sort that would really like to rule countries, and even if they wanted to nations would oppose that. Dalinar's idea of keeping Urithiru with good relations with all nations but only ruling absolutely in Urithiru is along the right lines. It also makes no sense to keep worshipping lighteyes when even the lowest darkeye can bond a spren and change eye color. Which would likely change the idea of how eye color is viewed. The most organic thing would be for countries to figure out how to introduce the KR into their new political order, then conitnue on as they were. Vorin countries obviously will have the biggest shake-up. Jasnah could also promise Kaladin to remove the dahn and nahn system, and just ask him to marry her to strengthen house Kholin. I can't say how Kaladin would react to that, as its something so bizarre I simply don't know what he would say. One last point. I don't see KR ruling countries because they are KR (but if the heir becomes a KR, sure). But, I could totally see KR becoming very appealing marriage potential for everyone, as marrying a KR shoots up your chances and your children's chances of becoming KR. So, while KR may not rule countries because of their radiantness, monarchs might play the odds to increase the chances of their house becoming Radiant to increase their authority. Then again this would mean juggling ruling their kingdom with the need to follow the rules of your order and possibly suggestions from the Bondsmiths.

Unfortunately for the Alethi lighteyes, they have very little real power to stand on currently. Alethkar has been overrun by Voidbringers, and they are currently guests in Urithiru. Other nations can walk out in a huff if they don't like what the coalition/KR are doing, The alethi don't have that option, since the only alternative they have is reconquering Alethkar, and if they leave Urithiru because they are pissed with the KR's authority they would be fighting a battle vs Fused and Singers with no KR on their side = bloodbath and defeat. Common soldiers follow their leaders (in this sort of society) mainly because they rule the land they are born in. Considering the alethi lighteyes no longer rule said land I'm not even certain if the common soldiers would keep following if they give the order to leave. Normally I would say yes, as common soldiers question little. But I seem to remember in OB most alethi armies in Urithiru (except for Sadeas) were increasingly merging together, doing manouvers together, drinking together, etc. When they start having a viable alternative commander to follow, and if given the choice between "lets go fight Voidbringers with no KR backup" vs "Let's wait and eventually fight Fused with KR backup" it would seem to open at least a split among most armies. I don't really think all highprinces will stay in Urithiru, but I estimate half or more will stick around and simply try to manouver as much power as they can in the new world order. The remaining highprinces will leave and either be slaughtered or become part of the Odium forces. Regarding the OP post, I could see that happening, but not sure how much I would like it. What I have no idea is what Kaladin's reaction to the suggestion would be.

That deal may not save Kaladin, but it may save his parents, as Hesina may have been born in Kharbranth. Nevertheless, Kaladin's parents are known to be his parents, so I would be very surprised if by the beginning of book 4 they aren't either in Urihiru or captured by Odium's forces to use against Kaladin at a handy time.

Was Moash injected with Voidlight here or was it a metaphorical expression? Random question about the sketch Shallan made of Elhokar, was it Elhokar dying trying to fulfill the Lightweaving/Transformation of Shallan, or did Shallan use Spiritual Lightweaving to paint Elhokar in the moment of his death?