Kitch

We still don't know if book 5 will take place over 10 days, or if the contest will end up being blown over and end at the first or second part.

What do you think you even get with the 5th ideal? Every oath basically unlocks something. With Nale we saw that he was able to accept the oaths for another radiant of his order. Maybe those of the 5 ideal are able to accept the words to progress in their oaths.

I think the main difference is that Seons exist in the physical realm while Spren exist in the cognitive, but pieces leak out into the physical. Since Seons have an actual physical presence, that is brought into the CR like a human. When spren are brought into the CR from the PR, they exhibit their physical presence, which is how they look in the CR What we should be asking is what does a spren who has been brought into, and is in, the PR look like from the CR. That will tell us what Seons look like from the CR when currently in the PR. I don't think the box had anything to do with what it looked like in the CR, it probably had more to do with getting it off world and confining it. As far as why this doesn't happen more often, the effort probably isn't worth the gain in large quantities. Which is why.... Sixth of Dusk and released sequel chapter spoilers

Gloryspren - Leaderform?

There was a WoB saying that Todd(I like this one too) didn't steal the memories, but destroyed them. I'm a fan though if T using Wit as his champion. That puts the contest in basically a never-ending loop. Wit can't be killed and Wit can't kill. That keeps the contest going until one of them does.....Dalinar of old age so T wins. Though I don't see this happening. The contract says that the champion must be willing. Either way though, I expect the overall contest to end in either a draw, or not end at all.

Brandon hinted that what Kaladin did was unique to Windrunners. At least some of what he did. It could be that aspects of the spren....always in motion, moving, not being confined...relate to the special abilities of that plate. Being able to zoom around. That also made me think how other "related" spren would affect plate. We might have already seen that with Shallon, during the OB scene when she summons an army. Some of them had mass....it could be part of her armors aspect is assisting in adding soulcasting to her illusions and we were seeing a hint of that. Much like how we saw a hint of Kaladins plate as well. Whatever Jasnah did when Adolin came up on her in OB....soldiers being flung around and geometric shapes around her...is also probably a unique plate ability. Mistspren....maybe invisibility/camouflage? Lifespren....progression at a distance. Gloryspren...no idea. My first thought was some kind of inspiration or mood enhancement. But that might not fit with the bondsmith oaths/surges Are there any other minor spren/ Radiant match ups that we know about?

External forces have a huge part in what they develop. Since they are constantly wracked by storms, they have a strong understanding of action/reaction. Push on this, affect this. Very kinetic. But delicacy isn't their strong suit. Which is probably why working with minute strings and vibrations lost them. But if they want to lift or move or do something massive? They know how to throw a ton of resources at something to make it work. Like the flying bridge.

Hopefully there's a metal mind backup. But this could be a way to "depower" Hoid for future books.

I believe it's mentioned that the fused still go to Braize when they die. When Raboniel killed her daughter, she wanted contacts on Braize to confirm she never showed up. But the Everstorm on Roshar acts as a pathway. The fused can travel from Braize to Roshar via the Everstorm. When before, it was just a single return.

If I remember correctly it's mentioned that El incorporates metal into his body on each resurrection. My first thought was that they were metal minds rather than spikes. Getting charged spikes and keeping them around while keeping those charge for millennia would be difficult. How I read it was that the carapace is being replaced by metal...so less of a spiking and more of a layering. But if they are metal minds, they have no loss. He could be constantly charging these metal minds and passing them from body to body, getting massive stored attributes. Though how he would have become a feruchemist....who knows. Might be related to how he lost his rhythms. Or it could be those bits of metal is fabrial technology and he is experimenting on himself, using his own gemheart. Really though we don't know enough about El. But I'm pretty sure that knife with a gem was a anti-voidlight knife and not a spike.

Was that a spike? I had gotten the impression that it was a anti-voidlight knife and El was just using the notes from RoW to create a new knife. He needed somebody to test it out on.

T instantly was given all of Rayse's long term plans. And we all know he had some major millennia long plans in the works involving multiple shards. I see T looking at the long term goal of protecting Roshar from everybody trying to take advantage of the free, loose investiture. That long term goal might mean working towards a coalition....but under T's terms. And we all know T and Dalinar differ on opinions on how to rule. I see that as the back 5 main arc...T wanting to prepare Roshar one way, while Dalinar is set on a different way.

I'm not a big fan of Kal becoming Honor. I get the thinking behind it, but he doesn't seem like the character to accept it. Maybe a temporary holder like Vin...but not end game. Biggest reason is that long term I see the relationship between T and Dalinar evolving, even with the 2 of them being shards. I don't see Kal being able to play the big games that Cultivation, Dalinar, and T are willing to play.

I think the bigger question is...why does Shallan deserve 2 spren? There's something going on in the background that puts the focus on Shallan and her family and why it's so important for her to have a bond. That being said...this is set up for a double bonded Lightweaver jumping into a Slandervanche

Teft being right there for the 4th ideal ...was forgiven....was forgiven and close.

I get the impression that Mishram became the "great" spren of the third shard. She was able to function partially in the same way as her "parent" shard, much like how the Nightwatcher and Stormfather do the same to their parents shards. And since Odium had been on Roshar long enough to become a tone of Roshar, then his representing spren also became a large part of Roshar. Hence the major damage done by imprisoning her. This implies a few things If the Stormfather or Nightwatcher are also "hurt" or incapacitated, we can expect some damage across all of Roshar The bonding of Mishram in the conventional sense means there could be a 4th bondsmith. Either Radiant version, or Regal version Odiums connection to Roshar. Rayse had thought he was bound to Roshar because of Honors agreements. But with there now being a tone of Odium, and his own spren, it sounds like he is too invested in Roshar to leave if he wanted to. That's also might imply why he was able to influence Roshar even though he was bound on Braise. The rules of Honor didn't hold since Odium was now heavily invested / connected to Roshar. Which means Odium isn't going anywhere unless Roshar is destroyed, regardless of Honor. Honor can't break the rules of the cosmere. But now that now that the vessel is also from Roshar, I don't think that's an issue. T is fine being confined to Roshar and is fine being the permanent third shard of Roshar. This will cause a different conflict...T's method of protecting Roshar vs "Honors"(*cough*Dalinar*cough*) method of protecting Roshar from future assaults to harvesting it's easy to access investiture. So, basically Rayse had to die in order to accept Odium being permanently bound to Roshar for the future conflicts Thanks C

So a forced bond. Bring a honorspren into the PR, spike it into a recipient, and you have a windrunner not bound by oaths. They won't have plate or blade, but there's plenty of those to go around.

Couple of things that came to mind in regards to Odium shard at the end of RoW. Rayse - He was killed, but is he gone? Cognitive shadows that ascend don't necessarily need to pass. If what Wit has hinted about Rayse's personality is true, he might not choose to go on to the spiritual realm and could cause havoc as a shadow. Connection - Odium the shard is stuck in Roshar. I think that's a solid given....Rayse had come to terms with that and was actively trying to work with it. He knew that he couldn't destroy Roshar to escape it like Ashyn....so he altered his long term goals to work around it. Hence the agreement to stay stuck in the system regardless of the duels outcome. He was looking ahead Long term goal - Rayse had hinted at preparing for a war. It sounds like he knew far into the future there would be conflicts over investiture from various sources. His end goal was to get Roshar prepared for that...but instead of by uniting, by dominating. Tanavast knew this....but did not agree with the method. Honors plan was that with a unified front of Singers and Humans, they can beat back the various other planets at wanting to harvest Roshar for it's investiture. Rayse had planned on doing this by backing 1 species to dominate the other. End game - At the end of SA, and entering into a larger cosmere war between planets, I see finally Dalinar, as Honor...and T as Odium being able to spend their centuries in front of a fire arguing morality in how they defend their world/alliance from outsiders. Ultimately this is the healthiest mixture of shards/investiture to promote growth to ensure that Roshar survives the cosmere conflict that is coming

The second that it was mentioned that to break the bond/kill the spren you needed to plunge the knife into the spren, I knew it was going to be Teft. There was too much emphasis that his spren preferred to be life-size.

This is a big reason why I instantly did not like the 10-day plot point being dropped at the end of the book with it's very specific terms. From a readers perspective, we know that something else is going to intervene, mainly because of we know there are going to be 5 additional books. This isn't the climax for the series. From a character perspective though, as far as they know that *is* the climax. The terms have been set and the end game has been decided. How to deal with the singers, how to deal with Odium, how to divide up the land....all going to be done in 10 days. So from their point of view, a lot of their problems are going to be decided in 10 days. Whatever pending tasks they had left all of a sudden don't matter Honorspren/ink spren joining the fight? Too late. Willshapers and spren bonding singers again? Doesn't matter, there won't be any fighting in 10 days. Figuring out bondsmith powers to do more....bonding? Why even bother....Dalinar is going to have a duel in 10 days and afterwards there's no more war. The fact that now all characters know that things are done in 10 days just doesn't sit well with me. Any actions they are taking towards the war effort in those 10 days are just going to feel hollow and forced for the readers sake. I mean...even sending Szeth into Shinovar doesn't make sense since after the 10 days, Szeth intervening in Odiums territory will be a breach of terms.

It looks like the ebook is being released at midnight PST. I'm still not sure if I'm going to skip part one, or reread it. The first few chapters are a bit hazy since it was awhile ago

I think it's going to end up being something with her relation to her mother/father/brothers. I wouldn't be surprised if she actually isn't related to her brothers, considering the emphasis put upon family with her chapters so far. Something along the lines that the real Shallan was killed, and "Shallan" was put in her place because of her bond, so that her family would have a radiant in the family.

I believe there was a WoB that spren and the storms existed on Roshar before Honor/Cultivation showed up.

Good point, forgot about that. And now I'm remembering that there was mention that Honor was starting to basically lose his mind and couldn't reassure the newer Knights that the decision to take over Roshar was okay.

I think the quote only said it was destroyed by surges. But, it was written by a Parsh, and the only investiture they knew of was "surges", so that could be a place holder for whatever the native investiture was for Odium/Humans. I think what's missing though is at what point did Odium start backing the Parsh and when did Honor actually seal away Odium? The terms of the Oathpact haven't been spelled out, and there's still some questions on what happens to the Parsh between desolations. Here's how I think it played out Prior to Odium/Humans Arrival Investiture on Roshar is Cultivation(Old Magic) and Honor(Spren/Surges) - Parsh do not utilize the surges though. Most likely because it involves trapping and enslaving the spren, and the spren do not get the same awareness benefits as with bonding humans. The 3 great spren should be around(Stormfather, Nightwatcher, Sibling). Status of the Unmade is unknown. Status of the Heralds, unknown. Might be alive Odium/Humans arrive, Humans are given Shinovar. Humans start to push into Parsh territory(How long did this take? 1 generation? Multiple? Were the people that originally arrived involved with the conquest? If so, that's a pretty major break of an agreement. If it's multiple generations, then the conquesting humans may not know that they were originally refugees) You now have Honor(Surges), Cultivation(Old Magic), and Odium(Voidbringing? What inherit investiture does Odium bring to the table? Did his abilities change when he went to Roshar?) Odium can influence the Parsh more directly due to them being closer to the cognitive realm(Theory). Odium then begins to influence the native spren on Roshar, creating void spren(Theory). Odium cannot corrupt "higher" spren though, at least not easily Status of the Unmade, unknown Status of the Heralds, unknown, but most likely alive Full blown war between Humans and Parsh. Honor sees that Odium is heavily influencing the Parsh and that peace is not an option with Odium in the picture(Theory) Honor sees that Odium is fueling the fight...Honor would have to invest humans as well to keep up. This investiture arms race could end up destroying Roshar like the humans original planet(Theory) Honor recruits the Heralds, creates the Honorblades, and creates the Oathpact so that there is at least an "end" to the war and Roshar doesn't get destroyed(Theory) Odium agrees and is bound(Theory)(I think I remember reading that Odium didn't actually agree, but his banishment was a result of the Oathpact) Parsh that die can become spren to be reborn - These first Parsh that die end up becoming the Fused.(Do these Parsh end up getting reborn over and over? Is that way Honor had to banish them to Braize, due to this causing an unending conflict? Also, what are the conditions for a Parsh to become a spren?) First war is won, humans take over all of Roshar, Odium's influence is locked to Braize, and Heralds as cognitive shadows are banished to Braize as well. Parsh nobility is banished to Braize, leaving just common Parsh who are unorganized Stormfather, Nightwatcher, and the Sibling are probably not involved in any of this Unmade are most likely around, source of them still unknown. Post 1st Desolation Heralds are on Braize Humans start to build civilization Are there still battles between Parsh and Human? If so, they are probably small in size due to lack of investiture fueling the fight 2nd Desolation Heralds break, allowing Odium to influence Roshar again, and Parsh nobility to fuse with common Parsh Full blown investiture war Spren see how the honor blades influence surges and discover the Nahel bond. (Might not be 2nd desolation, could be later on) Heralds fight and kill fused Parsh to return them to Braize. Desolation isn't finished until....the last Herald dies? What exactly "finishes" a desolation? Civilization is nearly destroyed due to this war and human kind is set back centuries. Then at some point the Heralds are around to impose Words and organization on surge binders to make them into Knights Radiant. Honor dies at some point, but the Oathpact is still in place. The Stormfather takes on a majority of the investiture from Honor. Continues to create honorspren Heralds become more and more unstable due to the torture on Braize. Aharietiam happens. Minor wars between Parsh and Humans continue, but no desolations. Knights Radiant find a way to seal away ALL the Parsh...inadvertently instead seal away their Connection and Identity, turning them into blank slates Knights Radiant discover the truth of their origins, and are afraid that their experiments into investiture will result in a destroyed Roshar Recreance happens. There's still a ton of questions though regarding the exact nature of the Oathpact, the Parsh being turned into slaves, and what the Knights Radiant were up to after the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact and the Unmade.