robardin

"Why didn't you listen earlier? We were, sure, all about to die and things!" YOU WEREN'T QUITE READY.

Congratulations, you've just gone and introduced the phrase "destination fees" to Roshar. Which in this case, must come before the journey.

If I were to re-read TWoT, I'd: - Read books 1-6, through "Lord of Chaos", which I tore through in rapid succession when I first picked up the series in 1999. - skim read or read chapter summaries of 7-8, as the pacing gets reallllly slow. There are some good parts in there, but I really feel like a good editing could compress them together into "A Crown of Daggers" or "The Path of Swords". I remember actually liking #9, Winter's Heart ... ...and being REALLY annoyed at #10, Crossroads of Twilight, for largely rehashing everything from Winter's Heart but from different POVs, until the cliffhanger ending. It felt like #10 and #11 could have been edited into one really good book as well, and I could simply have done without a few "same scene, different POV" type chapters, which was at least half of the book. Book #11, Knife of Dreams, felt rushed to me, like he had been prodded to GET ON WITH IT ALREADY, wrapping up stuff that had been foreshadowed, hinted at, or foreseen in various visions for ten books (spanning 15 years of publication time) so rapidly and simply that more than once, I was like, "Really? THAT was all about THAT? Huh." Then we found out why - Mr. Jordan was tragically terminally ill. And so books #12-14 were semi-ghostwritten by Brandon Sanderson.

Oh yeah. In addition to deciding not to kill Renarin for bonding a corrupted spren - which seems like it could be key to derailing Odium's "line of sight" - I had always wondered if a Soulcaster would be the absolutely most terrifying Radiant to face in battle, and holy chulldung was it terrifying. "OMG, a Fused one is flying in at ten o'clock" -- wave of hand -- wall of oil, glop, spark of flame, whoosh, good night. Or just literally smoking a bunch of red-eyed soldiers rushing to attack her... By TURNING THEM INTO SMOKE.

Or, you could put 1 and 1 and 1 together and realize that maybe it's not neatly tied up in a bow just because Shallan decided it ought to be. Especially when "Shallan" still barely trumps the Veil and Radiant personalities, both of who have expressed a preference for Kaladin (particularly Veil). This is going to become a full-on Arthur/Guinevere/Lancelot thing, I think.

We've seen from Amaram's flinching when Kaladin brings it up, and Moash's occasional pang of guilt, that "giving one's pain" to Odium (surrendering one's "passion", in a sense) doesn't mean that person forgets about it completely. Does that mean these people consider themselves "evil", in some way? What would happen if Szeth simply threw Nightblood at Moash, for example? (Maybe before he "converted" into Vyre)

Nightblood turns his wielder's skin grey, though that recovers with time (and possibly Investiture). Azure's blade was silver instead of black, and turned the victim's skin grey. As I explained in some other post somewhere, I read it as Vivenna having a "more focused" version of Nightblood - a "Type IV BioChromatic Entity" which a much clearer Command, and therefore, less Investiture. I theorize that Nightblood is the way he is largely because Shashara's Command of "destroy evil" was either inherently too vague ("what is evil?"), or that Shashara's mental image of what "evil" meant wavered at the critical moment. We'd already seen earlier in Warbreaker that the more complex the Command, the more Breath was necessary to make it work; so on top of the massive amount of Breath needed for the Ninth Heightening to Awaken steel in the first place, a colossal amount got put into the sword... So much Investiture that it turned black, and is sentient. And even that was not enough, which is why Nightblood requires exponential feeding of Investiture to operate when drawn. Vivenna/Azure's blade, on the other hand, must have a much simpler, clearer Command that keeps it a silvery color, fully "seals" it from requiring more Investiture, and (perhaps) keeps it non-sentient?

My first reaction to the Teft storyline was the same as yours - yeah yeah, I get it, Teft has demons - but not only does it lead to him selling his Bridge Four coat, which ends up being a key plot element in terms of someone from the Diagram managing to steal Jezrien's Honorblade, Teft is also the only one other than Kaladin to have reached the Third Ideal of the Windrunners, which was key to him being able to open the Oathgate to bring in reinforcements to Thaylen City. And why all the build-up of "Teft moping"? Because his version of the Third Ideal was different from Kaladin's. Where Kaladin was about rediscovering his core nature of putting duty above his personal feelings, I will protect even those I hate, so long as it is right, Teft is about reconciling - not conquering - with his inner demons: ...even if the one I hate most is myself. I think to really appreciate that, we had to see exactly how deep Teft's pain goes.

I think Teft had a very difficult time reaching the Third Ideal. Though we didn't see his POV in reaching the Second Ideal. It doesn't surprise me that it's much easier for someone to reach the First Ideal in a KR Order once there is a visible example of one to lead the way. Much harder for Kaladin, who didn't even know anything about Surgebinding, Ideals, or any of that - it took Teft, as an apostate member of an obscure religious sect dedicated to the memory of the Knights Radiant who just happened to be in his bridge crew, to explain some of it to him. Certainly a barely bonded Sylphrena was no real help in explaining what was going on. It's probably one of those "the veil once pierced" kind of things that once there are a certain number of Radiants, it's easier and more attractive for more spren to cross into the Physical Realm to bond to people. I mean, for all those new Windrunners, they have to be bonding honorspren, right? Who as a whole, are Forbidden to do what Syl did? What's up with that? I did think Lopen reaching the Second Ideal being played for a comic relief moment at the end of Oathbringer was a tad incongruous. But if any character could pull it off, Lopen's the guy. And the Stormfather telling him "you weren't quite ready" during the battle of Thalyen City, which JUST ENDED a few days earlier and during which Lopen was evidently straining to achieve that Ideal, was unexpectedly funny.

I agree somewhat that Kaladin's storyline felt irrelevant for the last two parts of Oathbringer, which is very different from the first two Stormlight novels, but I think fit the ending, which at its core is built around Dalinar and Renarin. The massive battle at Thaylen City was hard to pull off with all the POVs involved, and it was unwieldy and dizzying at points for a first time read-through, but I suspect with re-reads it will feel fine. I certainly can't think of any story line there that would not suffer from being cut.

I haven't (fully) re-read Oathbringer (yet), but so far, "Words of Radiance" remains the one I would go back to when I need a Stormlight pick-me-up. It has been, for years. But that will probably change, now that I know more about how Moash, Elhokar, Taravangian, and "Shalladin" story arcs developed in Oathbringer, re-reading my favorite parts of oR will now be... very hard. It's really hard to say because Oathbringer pushed SO MUCH along. So much so, that it feels like some stuff it started was just left hanging - the Adolin Investigates His Own Murder line got abandoned early, rarely mentioned at all, and now, he's just going to be a Highprince? I'm sure Ialai is going to have a LOT to say about that - especially now that her regent Highprince Sadeas, Amaram, is dead, and we'll see if she believes the story about him turning to the enemy. Heck, even if she does, you just know she's going to spin it like a Kholin lie to cement their position. But it's hard to deny that Oathbringer delivered. In spades. Not just in spades, but like a slam in spades that required a double squeeze without the count to bring in. (Sorry if that just went over the head of 99% of anybody here, but the expression "in spades" did come from Contract Bridge, heh.) I mean, just off the top of my head, things that have been poked at for years are now massively clarified: There's something wrong with Renarin and his "seeing the future", isn't there? ... You could say that. What is the deal with Dalinar forgetting his wife? Some kind of buried emotional trauma? ... Yeeeeah you could say that. Is Vivenna on Roshar? Oh yeah, she gets not just a cameo, but surfaces with a semi-Nightblood blade! Can Nightblood feed off of Stormlight? Um... Yes. 'Nuff said. Where are the Heralds? ... Here are several Heralds showing themselves. And, er, Jezrien freaking getting MURDERED with a mysterious golden knife that appeared to require Moash the Human to wield against him. Will Shallan ditch Adolin for Kaladin? Not unless she's going to be a Very Naughty Veil. Will all of Bridge Four "go squire"? Will any of them "go Full Radiant" and bond their own spren, and if so, would they be Windrunners? Yes, yes, and yes. Does Elhokar see a spren? Might he go Radiant, perhaps with a little Shallansketch to nudge his character growth? ... Yes, and no. What is a "Voidspren" exactly, and does that imply that parshmen who bond them can do "Voidbinding"? Ayup. Could a listener bond a spren and become Radiant? .... Venli doesn't just do this, she does this WITH a Voidspren in her as well! Since Moash seems to regret what he did in betraying Kaladin, is his a redemptive story arc? ... That would be one heck of an arc, at this point. Looks like he's going to be Odium's Champion at this rate. Speaking of which, we not only get more insight into the nature of Odium, we get MULTIPLE POVs WITH DIRECT INTERACTION with Odium! "No Shard is intrinsicall evil" - Not even Odium? Well, he's not just the Father of Hatred, he's the Shard of Passion. Kaladin faces off with Roshone (punch to the face) and Amaram (saved by Rock after Amaram powers up with an Unmade). Could Hoid bond a spren and gain Surges? ... Well, the Epilogue to OB sure suggests he's about to become a Lightweaver. Could a "dead spren" Shardblade be re-awakened? Is that will Adolin will do? ... YOU'RE SOOOO CLOSE MAN, DO IT, DOOOO ITTTT What's Taravangian's master plan / ultimate goal? He was hoping to "trick" Odium into saving "his people" after he became "king of everything". Not a bad idea, even if he's now cashed in his chips and folded his hand to go Team Odium for the promise of Kharbranth and its people being saved. That's not even mentioning how super duper awesome it is that Dalinar's injunction to "Unite Them" referred, in one sense, to pulling together all three Realms (Ascending at will, essentially) and being able to personally infuse spheres.

I think that's really the same thing. NB was the first experiment in Awakening steel, requiring the Ninth Heightening just to perform, plus whatever amount of Breath was needed to give the Command - which from more mundane examples of Awakening, depends on the complexity of the Command. I think Shashara underestimated the complexity of DESTROY EVIL, or mentally waffled on the exact meaning when she gave the Command's Intent, resulting in a huge amount of Breath being put into Nightblood, turning it black and actually requiring exponentially more Investiture from its wielder over time of use. Whatever Command was given to Vivenna's/Azure's sword was simple and clear enough to fully "seal" like most Awakened things. But this is segueing into a discussion for the Warbreaker forum.

Or possibly, as I put it, Nightblood As He Should Have Been: an Awakened sword with a much more specific Command that we don't know yet what it is.

Well, on Roshar she's Azure. I don't think Azuladin sounds right (sounds way too Last Airbender-y), so, Kalazure

Yeah, the Elhokar and Moash scene made me have to stop for a night too. But sign me up for Team Kalazure!

I need to take a pause after finishing Part Three. To sleep on it, even though it's only 9:30pm and I certainly could otherwise read for another 2-3 hours even on a weeknight. I made it past the Venli Interlude #7 following it, then just had to stop and collect myself. Because Almighty, what a finish to Part Three. Hi Vivenna. What's that Shardblade you carry that you can't dismiss, but also don't need to sheathe, and doesn't sever on All Three Realms, like a certain evil-destroying artifact from your past? Nightblood As He Should Have Been? Oh, Moash. Just when I thought you could... Bah. And giving the Bridge Four salute to Kaladin there... I think you broke him. You broke Kaladin! The man you owe everything to. You're of the Ten Traitors now, you bastard. Oh, Elhokar. I had so been hoping Shallan would do a Bluth style inspirational sketch for you. Is that white spren Eshonai, who like the Fused spren, is the soul of a listener who refused to pass on?

That was more of a segue into what a Crasher could do that even a Mistborn couldn't do. Obviously in a straight up Steelpushing contest like the one Edwarn proposed to Wax in BoM, it wouldn't be a factor. In that case, hasn't Allomancy weakened in power in Era 2 from the Final Empire?

I think Kell's trick with the spinning bar is only possible as a Mistborn with both A-steel and A-iron. An ordinary Coinshot couldn't do it, because it required simultaneous pushing on one end and pulling on the other end, in the same degree of power. I think of it like spinning a coin on a table top. You put your fingers on opposite edges, and pull one side toward yourself while pushing the outer edge away from yourself, to spin the coin in place. And that's only with some practice; usually you'd put more energy in one hand than the other, and the spinning coin would slowly drift to one direction. But if you pushed only on the one edge, it'd spin, but shoot completely off in one direction. On the other hand, as a Crasher, Wax can increase his weight with F-iron and Push things away from him that are otherwise much heavier than himself, without having to Push on an anchor behind him. Or, to impart much more force to his Pushed projectiles, by using larger shot. So he'd have a significant advantage in a Steelfight done in an open field.

Probably something to do with the fact that there haven't been any natural Mistborn since the Catacendre - Spook the Lord Mistborn was the last one, over 300 years prior to Era 2, and he had been made Mistborn by an Act of God (Harmony), not born as one. Something has to be going on there; related to how Harmony changed the mechanism of Snapping to awaken Allomancy is my guess.

I doubt it'll be something as explicit as Awakening or Zahel going full Returned and growing to superhuman size or something. My guess is that Szeth draws his new Blade and everybody is stunned at what happens, but a reader of Warbreaker will be all like yep, that's Nightblood, all right. And maybe Nalan mentions getting it from someone who will be Vivenna?

How about if Hoid could be forced somehow to burn Allomantic gold? Heck, what would Era 2 Marsh experience from burning gold? Or Vin Era TLR?

I was totally hoping Mraize was operating in Sadeas' warcamp as General Tso

But an Allomancer on Roshar wouldn't need Stormlight to "power" his/her Allomancy. The "burning" of metals isn't fueling the magic so much as opening a Spiritual channel to Preservation to make the power work. Allomancy is more like using AonDor. Once the "gateway" or "channel" to the Shardic power is established - drawing the Aon for an Elantrian, or burning a metal for an Allomancer - and where the ability to do so in the first place is determined by one's "Spiritweb" or "Spiritual DNA" (sDNA), the user can draw the power directly from the Shard (pull in the Investiture) and direct its effect. Because AonDor has its Shardic power "stuffed" in the Cognitive Realm, due to Odium's handiwork, AonDor is heavily location based, but the power of Allomancy (and Hemalurgy) are drawn at the Spiritual level and will work for the user equally well anywhere in the Cosmere. No "Investiture conversion" required. Surgebinding needs a "spren-plug" to access, and then draws power not directly from a Shard but instead on "stores" of the Shardic power (Investiture) condensed, if you will, as Stormlight. That's specific to Surgebinding, that it draws not on Honor (or Cultivation... or Odium?) directly, but indirectly, through Stormlight. And it's heavily implied that before the Splintering of Honor, the Heralds wielded the Honorblades using Investiture directly channeled from Honor, rather than using Stormlight as Szeth did (which required far more Stormlight than a Surgebinder operating via a Nahel bond). I think we'll eventually find that this has to do with the "blended" nature of Surgebinding, and also something to do with the fact (? - as written in the Ars Arcanum) that highstorms on Roshar existed before Shards arrived to the planet, as did some kinds of or some specific spren.

So Kaladin is just pretending not to be able to see/hear the yellow Voidspren, right? The ending to Chapter 15 being from his POV certainly suggests he heard it give the alert about him being in the bushes. So the reawakened parshmen can sense/hear the distant rhythms of other Listeners, but they don't know what it means. More tellingly, they don't do the Rhythms among themselves - suggesting that other "reborn" parshmen don't, either. Conclusion: some of the original "Parshendi" survived and are out there singing the Music of the Void. I won't venture to guess as to whether Ialai is a Ghostblood, or if she's being used as a puppet or tool by Mraize. Though I'd be inclined to guess at the latter, as I don't see the GBs tipping their hand to Shallan like that. He's going to play to Shallan Davar, the conformant and noble Radiant, while speaking double talk to bind Veil the Lightweaving Spy into their number.

Uh... I'll just leave that there We do, after all, know the "doom" her mother had in mind for her