robardin

Plus The Thrill doesn't incite sexual lust, just bloodlust.

Also, his recalling "the sound of a brave boy crying" there suggests either or both of two things: - it's linked to what he's ashamed of - it's the last memory he has of the boy

So I went back to re-read that passage more closely, and it's a little of both of what I thought before. However, I don't think Navani's involved. The Thrill had masked his shame as well as his physical pain - which suggests the shame stems from something he'd done while riding The Thrill. Besides, while Dalinar expresses internal shame in other passages based on his attraction to his brother's wife, that's always been in her presence, and she's not at this battle, nor even tangentially a topic of conversation between the two. However, Gavilar does know, or believe, that Dalinar killed both "their highlord and his heir" - the heir being the boy. So the shame isn't about keeping Gavilar from thinking he did so. On the other other hand, closing his eyes and remembering "a brave boy crying" as soon as he's alone, that sounds pretty much exactly what I would call "shame". It's certainly what's foremost on his mind at that particular moment, and one would assume, what was shaming him to the point of distraction earlier. So back to this thought again: is it possible that Dalinar didn't kill the boy, but did something else that would be shameful, not just in his own mind, but in Gavilar's estimation of him? Or was it just the way in which he did it?

Yes, definitely food for thought.

Yeah, I was thinking last week in the "why wasn't Elhokar in Dalinar's map meeting" and "where is the Honorblade" discussions that perhaps he had taken the Windrunner Honorblade and flown off to Kholinar to rescue his wife and child. That was when he was least nominally still in command in Urithiru. He may still get to do that, but on Dalinar's sufferance, as he's now firmly in control of who gets that Honorblade.

But those who pick up and use swords become the lowest of the low in Shin society. Unless the Stone Shamans are an exception, which they might well be, at least when on a Mission from God.

Graves: The Good Amaram: The Bad Mraize: The Ugly

Syl: Kaladin, remember your oaths! Kaladin: Er... I will protect those who cannot protect themselves? Syl: No. "Journey before destination."

Speaking of Shallan's turning Bluth and Gaz into "better versions of themselves" -- I'm waiting for more Gaz/Kaladin, or at least Gaz/Bridge Four, interactions than we've seen. I was looking forward to more sparks flying after Shallan looked over to see Gaz "rapidly backing away" after Shallan arrived at the Shattered Plains demanding to see Dalinar Kholin, only to run into Kaladin as the captain of his guards, and Kaladin saying Gaz was one of the "most hateful men he knew" who'd "tried to get me killed on multiple occasions". Shallan then proceeds to develop a working (and maybe more than working) relationship with Kaladin, while Gaz is still following her around and finding books like Words of Radiance for her, with no further interaction with Kaladin or anyone else from Bridge Four. C'mon, something's gotta blow up.

Yep. All signs point to the kid meeting Death by Dalinar. Which, when the Thrill subsided, he is ashamed of. That said, they didn't need the boy dead - if he were the new, legitimate highprince of that pricedom, what they really were after (as a political goal) was his swearing to Gavilar as the king of Alethkar. As we've seen, once they "united" the twelve princedoms, there are still twelve highprinces with their respective domains. Of course What Blackthorn Dalinar was really after was plunder, and Shards.

All I'm saying is, the only thing we know about What Happened In There is that (a) Dalinar is ashamed of it, to the point of hoping his brother doesn't find out, and (b) Dalinar came out of it with Oathrbringer in his possession. Typically there's only one way to disarm someone with a Shardblade and to claim it. Of course, I'd assume Dalinar, even wounded, could manage to overpower a seven year old boy... Just shove one of the defeated guards at him to knock him down, get the boy to the ground, then pin him down. But The Thrill... may have compelled a quicker, more violent victory. I myself have tried hard to think of another way for Dalinar that involves hoping Gavilar doesn't find out what he's capable of doing for a Shardblade, and doesn't involve killing a child who's old enough to remember these events, but nothing seems plausible. Fostering him out in secret doesn't work, because the kid would definitely still remember Dalinar killing his family.

I had hoped this was true, too, the first time I read it, but the more I think about it, the less it makes sense. Why would Dalinar be ashamed of NOT killing a seven year old boy?

Huh. So Moash didn't tell Graves that Kaladin had lost his Surgebinding and "killed" Syl as a result of agreeing to their plot? And Graves himself doesn't describe himself as a splinter; rather, that "we're allowed to pursue our own interests and goals until we're called up", and that he's bringing Moash back somewhere "to introduce him to the Diagram". I agree that Graves was not acting on Taravangian's orders to pursue his assassination of Elhokar, and I wouldn't be surprised if his use of Moash's relationship with Kaladin to get Kal to break his Ideals (and de-Radiant himself) was one of his side goals. But I also think Taravangian does have at least loose authority over Graves' motives, if not his specific actions.

If he truly is Thaylen, I'm thinking it's in the same way that Iyatil is Southern Scadrial. Born into a worldhopping milieu, in other words.

Yes, when recruiting Moash initially, but I always interpreted his last statement when Kaladin speaks his Third Ideal: as stemming from what Taravangian said earlier, after sending Szeth to kill Dalinar again, by telling him Kaladin must have an Honirblade instead of being Radiant: So not exactly aiming to separate Kaladin from Dalinar in terms of stripping him as a bodyguard, but to keep him away from meeting Szeth again.

The Diagram is pretty unequivocally calling for Dalinar's death at this point, isn't it? I mean, the last we saw, Taravangian emphasized it to Szeth, twice, as his Top Priority, and Graves' ulterior motive in attacking Elhokar with Moash was to keep Kaladin away from Dalinar while Szeth had a second go at him (given that Kaladin had stopped him the first time).

True, but unless Szeth died of natural causes, it seems likely that whoever caused Szeth to die would have seen it in action. (Which is in fact the case here.)

I wondered this as well, but the Shin wouldn't just give one up - he'd have to steal one - and then deal with the Stone Shamans coming for his chull. Given that KRs are, in fact, popping up all over Roshar, keeping Nalan busy playing Surgebinder Whack-a-Mole, it doesn't seem farfetched for one to appear in Jah Keved, and be fooled by Mr. T's benevolent facade. In fact, we've already seen a Radiant come out of Jah Keved (Shallan).

Huh. You know, I totally forgot about that detail. I wonder what the Stone Shamans are capable of. It's not likely that an Honorblade would just be left tossed in a planter to avoid being incriminating evidence. So "fetching" the Honorblade, especially the Windrunner one (which as we have seen, grants among the most terrifyingly effective combat useable Surges), from whoever probably picked it up, would be a pretty tough task.

Journey before destination, my dear... (What if Syl just chants the First Ideal at Kaladin while he's in action? LOL)

I've wondered this too, but then I remember that Gavilar was first in line before him to receive the visions from the Stormfather, which a WoB somewhere has confirmed meant that Gavilar was on the Path of the Bondsmith like Dalinar ultimately went down. Yet as we see in the Eshonai prologue to Oathbringer, he was also a key figure in the Sons of Honor; and to your point, not obviously "broken", just "changing". What cracks in the soul did Gavilar develop? Guilt over the violence he dealt? Something else?

"We are the Watchers at the Rim" Oh. No.

I haven't been keen on the "Elhokar Goes Radiant" angle, but it's true, he's maturing via self-awareness.

- Kaladin's discussions with Syl are starting to Go There. The concept of a Sylphrena Cheering Section when Kaladin eventually, uh, gets his turn at bat is going to drive a lot of fanfic I'm never, ever going to read. - So Elhokar was, in fact, simply excluded (or was not considered essential) for Dalinar's planning session where he Bondsmith'ed Shallan into a 3D projector. And he wasn't in the room when Aladar was, during the spanreeding to other world leaders. damnation. - Uh-oh. I think Dalinar is going to get to the point of "lending" the Windrunner blade to Elhokar. Especially since Elhokar still seems to think Kaladin could teach him something - why not teach him Windrunner Surgebinding? - Renarin's healing of Adolin carried overtones of what Shallan did with Bluth and even Gaz: show them an idealized version of themselves. Perhaps it's an interplay of Lightweaving with Progression? - Taravangian has a Radiant?! What? - What are the Voidbringers up to? Negotiating contracts with the Azish, stealing ships and grain... They're gearing up for the long haul, not just a war of destruction.

Not all orders would deem theft of spheres to be a bar. Skybreakers, sure; and lying about it to cover it up, honorspren would find that distasteful if not a deal-breaker. But Lift the Edgedancer of the Third Ideal is actually a thief who uses her pet Voidbr her spren as an accessory to Breaking and Entering, and Grand Theft Dinner.