Arinian

Honestly I don't think that would work how you wrote. Without information of my alignment no one was going to imprison Alv or Rae, probably all would ended in same way, with inactive in prison. Or maybe you right, all possible. There enough people whom I count as village right now but trust hmm... I think I trust only El, but anyway she was inactive(and I still remember LG28, so I don't trust El too much). And I don't think that Drake's alignment surely should be same as mine.

Not I'm not saved honor, from first turn I was going for Edgedancer even before game started I decided to myself that I will go for Elsecaller or for Edgedancer. My bond was formed on turn 4. I don't understand why I should have said to someone about my bond. What would change if I had said about it? I was only person in jail and I was unable to sit in prison longer cause I had not enough honor to keep my bond so anyway I needed to escape it. Also what if persons with whom I was in contact is elims or someone of them is Windrunner or they will just reveal info that I'm Edgedancer in thread. I just didn't want to increase my chances on death. Just look on that from my point of view, if you think that increasing chances on your death without any positive effect is good idea then I have nothing more to say. Also about what I was trying, I was trying to bond spren so elims not gonna get it, I don't know what you wanted to get with that question cause it already was discussed that for village is best to bond all sprens. Also that what I stated in same post that you quoted: So I don't know why you brought my statement, for what reason. You prefer if I had left cultivationspren unbonded specially for elims or what? I hope I answered on all questions for now. If something is not understandable ask me what I've meant .

Hmm... looks like too many vote manipulations just to keep Jondesu alive, yes can be that elims putting us on wrong way but all can be simpler and Jondesu is elim.

I have nothing to say... I'm certain... *taking deep breath*... I'm CERTAIN... I can agree with Quiver's lynch but in same time I don't think that all that bandwagon on me was reaction on Quiver's lynch, with same probability all this bandwagon can be just bandwagon. Or something like Lopen gave smallest reason on my lynch and elims added their votes so if after my death will be revealed that I'm villager Lopen is one to blame or elims even tried to defend me so after my death they can say something like "See! I was against his lynch! Lets find elims between people who lynched him", there could be many scenarios. And putting me in jail and lynching Quiver in same time stupid idea, if he will be executed and we will see that he is elim and I will go to jail in same time elims will just kill me with one player. Yes if he will be revealed as villager that's little bit keeps logic in your advice, but I know that I'm not elim so no I not gonna agree with that part. Also if he will be revealed as villager and I will go in prison after that(I mean on next turn after that) that not hurts village too much cause elim in prison is almost dead elim, only thing that you will lose if won't imprison me on this turn is that on next turn you will need to waste imprisoning on me. And why you was reluctant about executing me? It's really not clever thing to do cause why imprison me if not kill then for info, only reason I can see so that after my death you can say that "guys I was against executing him so it's you not me whom to blame". Alv

Look back when I said what I said, there was no kill, no any hints of what elim think to do so for me 4 looked like best guess. Now I can agree that there can be from 3 to 5 elims, 6 too many 3 kills in one cycle is really overpower. So lets think 5 elims it's 2 kills in cycle and one of them can investigate or go for spren, still looks like little bit overpowered for me(of course if one of them going for spren then they on some cycle should stop 2 kills in cycle to investigate). 4 elims it's 2 kills in cycle, but they still need to investigate and surely give all roles(sprens) to village will put them in bad position, so probably 2 of them is killing one investigating and last going for spren, looks pretty balanced. 3 elims it's one kill in cycle, one can investigate or go for spren, that's possible especially from what we see now. So I think that there 3 or 4 elims. It's just GUESS and I'm not CERTAIN. Also 4.4 usualy rounds to 4. And all that you wrote and quoted not answer on my question it's just says what number of elims can be depending on game features(or depending on GM). My question was worded in right way, why in THIS(yes this game) should be other number of elims, why? You not answered.

Okay, what I want to say. I'm not elim you can hunt me further but that will give you not much. What I can advise it's just activate your imagination at least for this turn and believe that I'm villager and do what you wanted to do if I was executed and revealed as villager. But if you want can just put me in jail again, but I'm aware you I need only some luck, 1 honor and my spren to be unbonded to make same trick again. Yes your ears not fail you, everyone can rebond their spren if bond will be broken, your honor not disappears. I addmit that I absolutely was wrong about elims not bonding sprens is best strategy for them. I don't know how it works with Dustbringer, but if their spren after killing 2 Honorable can easily be rebond like all others then it's really dangerous for us. Also Truthwatcher, they are really useful for elims. Elims just can sit and investigate everyone while their Truthwatcher scanning people, and once he hits someone with spren they killing this guy and throwing their unwasted honor in spren(of course there still will be dice roll but that damnation good way to get very useful spren for them in this moment). Also there really small list(I'm not counted honor but someone(Doc) posted people with many honor on previous cycle) of people who can get last three sprens and that makes elims chances on bonding valorspren even higher. AAnd I'm starting with my suspiciouns and reasons. 1. Alvron. Honestly how he acted on previous turn (was reluctant about my lynch) mixed my thoughts on him. He really hardly pushed for my imprisonment but what was need in my imprisonment on this point of game if not kill me for info, I don't know. Also I again will bring point about him having reputation of one who really good in rule understanding and storming GMs with questions (I'm started to play SE really not long ago so maybe I'm wrong but that what I've seen), so back to my point he said that "he will keep his honor" right now I see that like even much better choice for elims to keep honor. Also elims right now going with really weird strategy I don't know what they decided(so don't blame me in my certanity I'm NOT CERTAIN, I'm just guessing), but they not going with simple strategy about which I was talking earlier so that brings me to idea that there surely someone experienced in elim team, maybe someone genius or... mad(sometimes it's same thing). Alv fits for it I think. 2. Rae. It's really hard to be sure in Rae's alignment as she said me once "when I'n suspicious usualy I'm villager, when not I'm elims" yeahh something like that, and she not lying she really good in acting suspicious when she villager. But her reason on voting on me was... lets say not very solid. I will just bring her post with vote on me. So she voted on me just because I'm asked questions and was CERTAIN(after this game I will hate this word) about number of elims.(I damnation couple time wrote "give your thoughts why elims number should be other then 4" but everyone ignored me). Maybe I bit biased with my thoughts on Rae cause she voted on me but I think she suspicious. Also will bring her second post with reasoning on my lynch: "More like what an Unjust will do"... what is that? That's point? Are you kidding me, just stop for second... you think I'm robot or what? Everyone has his\her own roaches in head I wanted not to throw short posts that was reason I don't know how it makes me more elim or less elim looks like you just tried to take some reason for your vote from nowhere. (and info from my questions I count as useful) 3. Lopen. There not much to say but I played couple games with him and his tone in this game more agressive then when he was villager. He looked too sure in my lynch even if his points was not solid. Don't have more to say, read based on his tone not more not less. 4. randuir. It's just gut read but something looks wrong about him. Also I wanted add Ecth but I can't find post which made me suspicious of him... so mehh... So that's all for now, I should calm down little bit(cause reasons on lynch me made me really angry) and also should re-read through previous cycles. Also if something not understandable ask me I will clarify what I meant. And also I will probably vote on Rae or Alv on this turn. Yeah that's looks like all for now. I think so...

I'm back And yes it's my bond was broken. Don't have much to say right now, will throw my thoughts and RP later And also question. Can I vote? Cause by write up I think I can't. Oh and write up is nice, as always.

Oh, that looks like nice idea. Conquestor. Joe.

Yeah anyway chance that we will hit elim on first day not very big. But if elims have at least one rioter leaving 1 vote on everyone will just let them choose whom they want to see dead.

It's dangerous cause it's game with vote manipulations and we don't know from what roles exists elim team.

Khm... Conquestor.

I'm not sure if you seen reasons for me to be unjust but okay(I'm not counting your reason about my vote on Alv as valid, cause you really think that your one sentence about me was so big threat that I should react on it (if I was elim)?, I can't convince one who don't want to listen. Maybe you can go and look on only game(LG 28) where I was elim and say if my behavior is identical? I don't see how I can convince you in other way, if you don't want to listen.

Ahh... lynch on me is just question not of evidence but trust, so lets play. Just trust me, I'm not elim Also I claiming right to say to everyone "I told you" of course if I will be lynched.

It begins to look like some sort of cult.

I knew about your logic but my post was pointed not to you but to Alv who voted on me mostly cause I knew "horrible secret that no one should know"(I'm about elims ability to kill and investigate more then one person in cycle). And your logic is wrong, I'm voted on him not cause you said something in your post I voted on him cause I think that he is suspicious(he looked like most suspicious for me and he still looks suspicious to me), it's just big unlucky coincidence for me. I even not thought that my vote can lead to this (maybe cause I'm not elim and didn't care about suspicions on me and just wanted to say whom I think can be elim) *shrug*

But you still suspecting me cause I knew it?(even if Assassin asked that question on signing. And interesting why Assassin didn't said that I'm right in it? Assassin you want to see me in jail ?) Ahh and also about my certanity of elims number I just "went by every other game that has been played" by me and assumed.

Well as I see there not gonna be change in votes so I will just try to save myself(and I'm not sure if I will get here till rollover). Quiver

You right question not in who is active or inactive. I think I should formulate my thought in other way. People who trying to add some thoughts about ways to catch elims, number of elims, etc usually gathering suspicions on them much faster then others and so becoming lynch target more often(I even can bring atleast one example).

My certainty? You damnation all will bring this point? I said many times that I NOT certain but I don't have other reasons WHY there should be OTHER number of elims. Say me why you think that there should be other number or your point is trash? Also I can see why Alv is elim, it's usual for him ask many questions, isn't it? And he said that he have 3 pages dialogue in GM's PM, so you think he didn't get rule clarification about how many kills or interogates elims can do in one turn? And that the only point on which he pushed, how I so sure that elims can do that number of interogates or kills. Why push on that if he knew that I'm right or you not asked this question Alv? Alvron.

Applause, lynch me because I just was active, and put some ideas. Nice, ohh and best part of this lynch that I can't defend myself cause reasons on lynching me... hmmm there no reasons that's just cause "nothing happening", and Lopen's "I voted for Alv"(I even don't understand how it makes me elim so please give me answer atleast). Anyway you all proving my theory, meta on this forum leads to death of active players when everyone else stays aside and just makes vision of activity.

*Shrug* if you think so RP added:

I knew about it. I meant that I asked questions to increase size of posts so they not gonna look small. Visual lie.

Oh I forgot. Sheep. And to questions. I don't know if elim can or can't investigate more then 1 in cycle(I'm tried to ask it in same post where I mentioned it first time. But or Aman missed my question or I weirdly formulated it). So I don't know if they can but from wording I guessed that they can. Just think if they can investigate only one person in cycle then they can have kill only once in 2 cycles, looks underpowered isn't it? And from signing page 3: It's individual. So, if there are four Unjust on C1, they can decide to investigate four different players and then during the next two chapters execute two of them at a time, for example. This, however, means they are unable to bond any spren, and therefore the village will end up with all of the powers. Any player can only perform a single action each cycle, so a single Unjust cannot Investigate and Execute in a single turn. So questions? It's Aman's answer if something. Akhm? What? I don't understand...

Yeah you right it's very tricky and hard to do as I said, but all this game about guessing, isn't it? All what we do is guessing through all game, I just advised idea so someone can extend it. I just tried to understand why there no kill on this cycle. But looking back I see that I get not much from that. Mehh... And I'm not certain in elims number, but we should go from something. Just think if we will stay and think "Hmm... interesting how many elims in this game. I don't know so I will sit and wait till I will die and GM will reveal it to me" that's what you think I should do? Right now I don't have better guesses about elim number but of course I have nothing against if you will give me your thoughts on elim number, and reasons why number should be so.

So you suspecting me cause I'm too insightful and asking many questions and you think that it's not usual for me? Sorry I should break your theory I'm not insightful nor asking unusual amount of questions. I'm insightful cause I'm just read rules and asking questions but I always asked many questions, only diference I asking question in thread not in GM PM(usualy I asked questions only in GM PM). Why this time I asking questions in thread? Just to increase size of my posts cause there not many what I can add to discussion right now(and also to get honor, cause I don't know how Aman counts posts for honor, maybe he not counting short posts. Who knows? Not me. ), I'm still suspecting Alv(also I have bad gut read on Drake) but not more then that. Also I just realized that person in jail will surely lose his spren(if there no way to get honor in prison) and only way not to lose it it's to collect some honor(and not waste it) before you will be imprisoned. So with that(if Aman will post when bond is broken, will you?) we can guess on which turn bond where created and which spren it was and if it was prisoner who lost spren. Okay my idea is confusing and hardly doable but let me explain. For example: Lets say Lopen(it's jus example I not counted who how many honor get) bonded spren on this turn, he wasted 4 honor on it and but then on this turn he was imprisoned but before he was imprisoned he get 2 honor for this cycle so if bond will broken on turn 5(or 6... I'm not sure if I failed in counting) we can guess that Lopen was one who bonded spren. Then if my guesses is right and only Lightweaver or Truthwatcher is so cheap we can guess(yes only guesses) that Lopen is not elim cause elims don't have any need in bonding this sprens(that guesses, yes again). And also right now I think that Stonewarden can be also cheap spren. I hope it's understandable? Also I not gonna do that, cause I lazy... and it's just my theory based on guesses so... mehh. Also can it be so that Aman not allowed elims to investigate crimes on turn 1? Or hmm... I don't see need for elims not to kill if they can investigate on turn one 4 players and then kill 2 on turn 2 so there will be 2 dead on turn 3. Hmm I don't know maybe... something like hmm... they didn't want to give us information by kills. So what they will do hmm: C3. They have 8 investigated players so they can choose from this list who is more dangerous for them or who have biggest chance to bond spren and will kill them. C4. 2 players dead, elims still have 6 investigated players. C5. 4 dead, 4 investigated. C6. 6 dead, 2 investigated. C7. 8 or 7 dead, 3 or 0 invesigated. They should investigate to get kill but there can be possibility that they killed dustbringer and collected enough honor to get his spren so one of them will go for this spren. Way if Aman not allowed them to investigate on C1. C3. 4 investigated. 0 dead. C4. 2 dead. 2 investigated. C5. 4 dead. 0 investigated.(I'm almost sure that there not gonna be spren that costs more then 8 honor so they have enough honot to become dustbringer) C6. Still 4 dead. Probably 3 investigated and probably they can get dustbringer. I don't know what in elim heads... but I can see only 2 posibilities: 1) They decided not to kill early so we won't get more info... but if I was elim I will surely kill someone with big amount of honor, so probably there something else, other motivation for it. 2)Aman just not allowed them to investigate on turn 1(but it looks like big underpower to elim team, so I don't think he done that). Honestly I don't know why they not killed, that's really confusing, and I even don't know why I'm wrote what I'm wrote... I lost all ideas. Mehh... And maybe I failed with counting, it's usual for me. Better don't read it.