Subvisual Haze

I thought so too with Hoid! It seemed like a bit too far-fetched of a guess, but something about the way they talk is strikingly familiar. Also the mutual propensity for telling stories/parables and letting the listener draw their own conclusions. Also Hoid has pulled repeated duty as "emergency therapist" for our main characters during their times of crisis. He delivered just the message/story they needed to hear to Kaladin twice and Shallan once. The timeliness of this dream with Dalinar seemed similar. Hoid actually being Nohadon doesn't match much at all though. We know that Rayse hates him, and he's meddled in Roshar affairs before (to the point where he can draw the Heralds and the Fused know him personally). Especially in the original vision from Stormfather though Nohadon seems like a pretty mundane human confused by what to do in the world. I was actually half-wondering if Hoid might have ghost-written The Way of Kings and was a friend of Nohadon?

If you have read Secret History, you see a similar pattern of events occurring here as there. I like the idea of Nohadon acting like a very patient cognitive shadow "spanner in the works" much like a certain Survivor did. Whispering into Dalinar's dreams (once Dalinar had more connection to him by reading his book repeatedly and acting more honorably) also follows a similar pattern as the Survivor being able to whisper thoughts to those close to him. I still wonder if Nohadon was "just" a normal human though. Something about the way he talks in the last vision feels very familiar but I might just be imagining it.

Oh yes, I think that's definitely the first impression you're intended to get when reading them as well as my first thoughts. It was only when Renarin made an offhand comment about a pattern that wasn't resolved in this book, that I started to think about what could be "hidden" there. Brandon loves hiding in another secret in plain site though, so I think there's a good chance that these recordings weren't all simultaneous. I think there's a cause/effect relationship in there to tease out.

One shouldn't assume the gems were all recorded at the same moment in time, or that the order we read them is the order that they were recorded. Renarin at one point posits that there is a secret pattern related to how the gems are ordered (and Renarin's hunches are almost always correct). I have no clue what the pattern is though.

Kelsier crosses off another 2 entries on his "gods punched" bucket list.

I think there's also a strong possibility that this event is what "hurt" The Sibling to the point that he/she has been asleep ever since.

What if I told you that your body is producing multiple kinds of radiation RIGHT NOW!!?

I think (hope) that the revelation about humans migrating to Roshar was only important in the context of "they came to Roshar because they blew up their previous planet with surges". Honor was a check on the power of the Radiants, and once he started to circle the drain (probably due to 9/10 of the Heralds giving up) suddenly the unchecked powers of the Knights Radiant became the biggest immediate threat to the safety of the world. Ishi probably also convinced them that the desolations were over for good due to whatever they did to magically lobotomize the parshmen. If they believed the Desolations might be truly gone, disarming themselves made sense as an action for the safety of the world. I think there's a good chance that the bonded Radiant spren willingly went along with this plan, perceiving it as a sacrifice for the greater good.

I think it would be best if Kaladin not get a girlfriend who is fighting on the front lines though. He already drives himself crazy worrying about harm coming to those he's protecting, I'm not sure he could emotionally handle having a relationship partner being at risk of harm. This love triangle does have interesting echoes with the earlier Navani-Dalinar-Gavilar triangle. I think Kaladin is lying to himself about being over Shallan completely. He's too honorable, and cares about Adolin too much to pursue the relationship further, but I can definitely see him forcing himself to be distant from Shallan like Dalinar did with Navani.

Adolin is such a fascinating character because I'm not sure if Brandon accidentally wrote him as the 100% perfect boyfriend or if he's doing a really clever subversion about what people think they want from an ideal relationship partner vs. what a mature relationship entails. Adolin is like the product of a focus group working to synthesize the perfect "nice" boyfriend found in so many romantic comedies. He's a prince (but not the kind of Prince that has important duties which interfere with your homelife, the Disney kind of Prince) and never needs to worry about money or jobs. He's extremely good looking and fashionably dressed. He has a kind heart and makes instant friends with everyone. He constantly compliments you, calls you beautiful, says he's the lucky one in the relationship, and loves you just the way you are. His closest thing to a remaining character flaw (now that his classism is gone and his propensity for rapidly changing romantic partners seems completely abandoned) is that one time let himself be goaded (by threats to his loved ones!) into killing possibly the worst human being on the planet and then still felt bad about it afterwards. He's also not exceptionally bright. Not stupid by any means, but you never have to worry about him making you feel intellectually inferior. On a rather shallow level Adolin is the perfect ideal boyfriend. So what's missing? Adolin gives no signs that his relationship with Shallan can ever progress much beyond what they have right now. He'll never challenge her to better herself in any way, because he already thinks she's perfect and pretty much tells her so. He's supportive to the point of risking being an enabler (a huge problem with the current path Shallan's psyche is taking). If they ever have an argument, he'll probably just let her win (which will stop being cute very quickly). What do they actually talk about once they run out of compliments for each other and briefly touching on current events? Will Shallan start to resent Adolin for not being as intelligent and verbose as her, and then resent herself for looking down on Adolin in that way? I don't think they'll be miserable together, but their relationship seems built on such shallow foundations that I'm not sure it can grow and mature. Brandon gave a comment that Shallan's wit is partially based on Jane Austen characters. In hindsight I can definitely see that, barring the traumatic past her personality type is very much like a Jane Austen protagonist. The ideal matches in Jane Austen novels were partners, people who intellectually challenged you and were strongly driven by an internal moral code that complemented your own. Adolin is kind, supportive and and an all around wonderful human being, but he's no Mr. Darcy. There was this other very Mr. Darcy-like character who was brooding, witty, verbally fenced with Shallan for long strings of fast-paced dialogue, and was utterly driven by his internal moral code of right and wrong, but that's not who Shallan chose in the end. The question now becomes was Brandon just subverting expectations by having his Jane Austen protagonist chose the unexpected suitor, or will Shallan and Adolin's puppy love relationship get a harsh dose of reality in the near future?

It's actually really odd that even after acknowledging the death of her mother, Shallan's earlier childhood is still a blank slate to readers. Besides her remembering seeing a production of The Girl Who Stood Up and having a talent for drawing her past is just...empty. There does seem to be timey-wimey shenanigans going on with spiritual connections breaking the linear causality of time though. Sylphrena sought out Kaladin because she knew that someday he would need her? Pattern bonded Shallan because of the way she protected herself with lies...after they had already bonded? Magic destiny or something. I think Odium even implied glimpsing into the spiritual realm is necessary to see the future. This makes sense if the spiritual realm likely connections that haven't actually happened yet in our timeline?

Timbre shows a nonstop childlike joy in exploring everything. When let out of Venli's pouch Timbre seem fascinated by wall decorations and sock drawers and (in a scene reminiscent of my interactions with my cats in the summer whenever the front door opens) wants to go outside requiring Venli to repeatedly tell him/her "No!". Willshapers loved adventure and novelty, the Reachers loved to sail on ships and read adventure novels in their free time, Eshonai wanted to explore and make maps, Timbre gets excited exploring sock drawers. Combined with the other hints mentioned, this theory seems 100% solid to me.

Khriss isn't omnipotent, and the writer of the second letter to Hoid in OB seems surprised that he was even able to locate this avatar, which implies to me that the purpose of the manifestation was to remain hidden. I think Bavadin/Autonomy practiced the same illusion magic Hoid used to back on Yolen. Losing one's sense of self seems to be an inherent risk of that type of illusion magic (Hoid seems very familiar with what Shallan is going through now). I'm guessing Bavadin chose to just embrace that path and fragments personalities/avatars all over the place and now refers to himself/herself/themselves(?) in the plural. You can't kill her if she's a collective consciousness spread across multiple locations. You could say she's diversifying her investments investiture.

I cry everytime

Maybe it's like the thing with the old Star Trek movies, where the even numbered ones are the good ones. After TWOK I was ready to be bored to tears by Shallan's chapters and "wit" in WOR, but she surprised me by being an absolutely delightful character with a sympathetic backstory and solid emotional connection with the main characters. Her scene with Kaladin in the canyons contrasting their different ways of carrying their psychological burdens was really quite profound. I was expecting more of that Shallan in Oathbringer, but instead got surprised again, this time by an overly dramatized portrayal of "multiple personalities" which seemed straight out of a Lifetime Original Movie and starkly out of place compared to the other careful and measured portrayals of mental health disorders we see in many other characters. Which again is quite sad, because I found the WOR and early-Oathbringer Shallan so much more relatable in her struggles with panic disorder, past traumas and repression. Halfway through Oathbringer I just wanted to skim through any Veil chapter as quickly as possible.

Brandon feels overly restricted by the limited potential of "print" as a storytelling medium, presents the 7th Volume of the Stormlight Archive entirely via interpretive dance.

It turns out "Shallan Davar" is actually a deep cover avatar of Bavadin. Bavadin's illusionary magic loopiness has entered an advanced phase where even her avatar creations start to manifest their own avatar creations. "Shallan" was a sleeper identity for Bavadin to influence the clash of shards on Roshar.

1) In the first kingdom that he first sent peacekeeping Alethi troops to, said troops tried to conquer the city. 2) The Radiant order accompanying said peacekeeping troops withdrew entirely from the city the day before the battle because of moral uncertainty. To their credit, they did come back eventually. Uhhh, would any remotely functional kingdom actually invite Dalinar's troops at this point? They didn't do so great in their trial run.

A mysterious lawman from an unknown location called "The Roughs" appears on Roshar to educate Nale and the wayward Skybreakers on what it truly means to be a lawman. Another mysterious individual with a fondness for hats ascends to the 5th Ideal of the Lightweavers within a single day, baffling the entire collective of Cryptics with his impressive knowledge of lies and truths.

Syl is like a cross between his imaginary best friend, therapist and guardian angel. While I don't think they'll ever get involved in a physical way, I did think it was weird that Kaladin wasn't more excited that he could give Syl a hug in Shadesmar. Also I'd be kind of amazed if some Radiant in the past hadn't fallen in love with their spren (in an asexual romantic way). I think Mercedes Lackey already did that plotline though with her Heralds of Valdemar series.

My apologies for not stating my intent for the thread from the start. We all have our own closely held opinions about Oathbreaker and the parts we did or did not like about it. We've all voiced them repeatedly across many threads, at great repetitive length. I was hoping to generate a discussion more specifically related to the revelation that Brandon originally considered ending Oathbringer at the failure in Kholinar (with Thaylen City perhaps occuring concurrently). Not so much: "no you're wrong", but considering the alternate possibilities that the story could have taken. How does knowledge of this change affect your thoughts on Oathbringer? Would you have enjoyed the story more or less if the book had ended at this point? What were the advantages or disadvantages of continuing the story after this point? Would you have attempted to strangle Brandon (as Karen implied) if the story had ended on such a down note?

Sorry to keep flogging a dead Ryshadium, but I've always felt like Kaladin's arc in Oathbringer felt incomplete. Individual perceptions on this will of course vary, but I thought Kaladin's Arc lacked clear direction and the parts didn't combine well to make a greater whole. Part 1 give him a central conflict (how to protect everyone/anyone when you identify with both sides of a conflict), and Part 3 ended with a clear failure on his part to protect anyone. It's the other parts of his story that felt odd though. Part 2 had no internal POVs for Kaladin, focusing rather on him through the eyes of Bridge 4, which was an interesting change of perspective, and ultimately doesn't detract from the greater narrative as a result. Part 4 though seemed divorced from the rest of his narrative entirely (journeying through Shadesmar), and Part 5 felt like another character's climax that he was shoehorned into rather than naturally building towards himself. Please note: I am not upset that Kaladin failed to say his fourth oath or suffered setbacks in general, but rather that his overall book arc felt lacking in clear direction (either positive or negative), and the central conflict that was set up for him (choosing a side in a war) was largely dropped after Part 3. With that in mind, I was extremely intrigued by this Word of Brandon I saw from the Chicago signing: For clarity: Part 3 concludes with Kaladin freezing in combat, being unable to choose a side in a conflict when people he cared about were present on both sides, with the ultimate result of Elkohar being killed. It is the lowest point in Kaladin's arc. Cutting the book here would have been a huge downer, and would likely have angered and saddened an enormous number of readers...but personally I think it works better as a story arc for Kaladin. Not all arcs need to be ones of character improvement, you can also have an arc where a character is presented with a challenge and fails. Ending the story here would be incredibly depressing, but from a literary perspective I think it would have functioned better as a complete arc for Kaladin. This also helps to explain (to me at least) why Kaladin's adventures in Shadesmar in Part 4 felt like "padding" to his narrative, and Part 5 felt disconnected. If Part 3 was the original ending to Kaladin's story, Part 4 functions as a "moving characters" section so Kaladin/Shallan/Adolin can now participate in the Part 5 Thaylen City confrontation that was likely originally occurring simultaneously and separate from their own Kholinar conclusion. As it stands, it appears like Brandon may have tried to soften the blow of Kaladin's failure at the end of Part 3 by extending his story. Unfortunately this left his arc feeling strangely mixed for me. Kaladin's arc is neither an arc of failure (since it has so much content added after his lowest point diluting that the emotional impact of that failure), but neither is it an arc of growth since he encounters no major milestones or epiphanies in the final two Parts of the book.

One thing I really like about Jasnah is that she's an advanced enough know-it-all nerd to realize that she's doing this, but she still can't stop herself completely. (This from someone who still keeps a running tally in his head about how many questions he has answered in any class or meeting with a strictly self-enforced STOP TALKING cutoff). Here's a goofy one I somehow missed the first time through, when the Shadesmar crew is hiking to Thaylen City and Shallan is lagging behind the extremely in-shape soldier guys: Large chickens circling exhausted people.... Shallan literally has vultures flying in circles above her head like a cartoon character

What we saw was likely the whole point of Tanavast's advice to Dalinar. By declaring a contest of champions and making it clear that there is a possibility that Odium could lose, Odium has now been forced to withdraw from direct leadership of his war. Odium was hoping he could subvert the contest entirely by making Dalinar his own champion and thus forfeiting the contest before it even began for Honor. It didn't win the war, but it limited the direct influence that Odium can bring in the conflict. It was also good from a meta-narrative perspective in my opinion. Odium directly commanding his troops diminished a lot of the mystery behind him as a villain. Odium as a chess-master moving his pieces from the shadows will be more interesting than a physical white-gold avatar at the front of his army or a spirit trolling Dalinar's dreams.

I thought white hair might just be a Yolish theme, or perhaps a sign of heavy investiture. I want to say Rayse's avatar and Tanavast's avatar both have white hair in Dalinar's visions.