Subvisual Haze

I don't get this either though. We've even had an important flashback scene between Lirin and Kaladin (when Roshone is at risk of bleeding out on the operating table) where Lirin briefly considers letting Roshone die, but later declares that allowing a person to die when you have the power to stop it is morally just as wrong as killing them. Kaladin closely follows his father's surgeon ethics, and at one point declares Lirin the only honorable man he ever knew. The difference between Kaladin directly killing Szeth, versus doing nothing when Szeth allows the storm to take him, really isn't that different in Kaladin's ethical worldview.

I think we need to consider the possibility that Brandon is messing with us much like George Lucas and his repeated strange edits of Han and Greedo's confrontation. Who wants to make a "Kaladin Stabbed First" t-shirt?

The lives of Kaladin, Moash, and Elhokar were placed on a collision course for tragedy after The Roshone Affair. In this event we infer that Moash's silversmith grandparents were imprisoned, and later died in prison, based on the greed of Roshone who used his influence over King Elhokar (in charge of Kholinar due to the absence of his father and Dalinar) to carry out the plot. When Dalinar was alerted to the disaster details were suppressed and Roshone was exiled. This single critical event would have a domino effect resulting in: the death of Moash's family and embittering of Moash the exile of Roshone to Hearthstone and the eventual levying into the army and death of Tien (destroying Kaladin's "innocence") Kaladin and Moash uniting in a temporary treasonous plot against Elhokar Kaladin temporarily losing his bond with Syl and nearly turning against Dalinar Kaladin and Moash experiencing a falling out, resulting in Moash being exiled from Bridge 4, and ultimately joining The Singers The death of Elhokar at Moash's hands. Many classic literary tragedies tend to have a critical miscommunication or misunderstanding at their root. There is also often a single antagonistic character whose manipulative or evil actions result in the downfall of others. I believe Queen Aesudan, not King Elhokar, was ultimately responsible for the death of Moash's family. Elhokar however, displaying his usual characteristics of loving and protective husband, along with his propensity to trust the wrong people, chose to assume responsibility for his wife's actions. This sets the perfect recipe for a tragedy wherein Kaladin and Moash are set on a path of vengeance based on the incomplete assumption that Elhokar was entirely responsible for the tragedies in their life. Moash ends up killing a person who did not bear true responsibility for his plight, and indeed Moash is now serving one who did bear responsibility for the evils done to him (Queen Aesudan, likely already acting under the influence of Odium+Unmade). I can't really prove this was likely the case, but it is a fun thought to consider, and it would connect a lot of clues and offer an important twist on the story. A couple possible clues: 1 - Approximate Time of the Roshone Affair This quote places the time of the Roshone Affair pretty accurately. It occurs in the brief interval where the Listeners had been discovered and King Gavilar had developed an interest in them, but before Gavilar had been assassinated. Perhaps one year or less before the assassination? Dalinar was likely in an alcoholic bender at this time instead of watching over and instructing Elhokar, another tragic "what if?" element to the event. The second half of this quote is interesting because at first glance the "someone he trusted" is heavily implied to be Roshone. It is worded just loosely enough though that Dalinar could be referring to a third party. 2 - If Aesudan was suspected of being involved in this affair, it explains certain reactions by Dalinar and Jasnah. We are never given a specific reason why Jasnah was arranging for an assassination of Queen Aesudan via Liss, nor why she eventually retreats from her request opting for further observation. If Jasnah highly suspected that Aesudan bore responsibility for the Roshone Affair (but wasn't completely certain due to Elhokar covering for her), that may be enough to make Jasnah highly consider an assassination, but then decide it needed further observation. We learn later that Jasnah considers the stability of her family's rule to be of critical importance, thus her recognizing that Aesudan is both a terrible ruler/person and also has the blind loyalty of Elhokar would establish Aesudan as a clear risk to the family's ability to maintain power and not coming into internal conflict with one another. We also are given heavy hints early on that Dalinar does not trust Aesudan. Mraize's letter indicates that Dalinar's trusted soldier Bordin was purposefully left behind in Kholinar to keep an eye on the Queen (Bordin later leaves the city to deliver Taln and the shardblade to Dalinar). Dalinar also seems distressed that Navani has left Kholinar, hoping that she would provide leadership advice to Aesudan. Navani declares however that the Queen is politically competent (and reading between the lines, likely ignores Navani's advice entirely). We later learn that Aesudan is a cruel and petty ruler who has been under the influence of Odium's Unmade for an indeterminate period of time. 3 - Characters of Elhokar and Roshone What was done to Moash's grandparents was monstrous, but in hindsight it doesn't seem to match the characteristics of either Elhokar or Roshone, the two characters we are told are responsible. Elhokar was a pretty terrible ruler for much of the time we are with him, he trusts the wrong people, and occasionally displays a temper. Even so, agreeing to throw some elderly artisans in the palace dungeons merely to financially benefit an ally seems much more cold-hearted than the Elhokar we know. If however Aesudan was responsible for throwing some inconvenient darkeyes in dungeon, it is fitting with Elhokar's character that he would try to protect her and refuse to think ill about her. Roshone is another character who while greedy, underhanded, and unpleasant doesn't seem to sink to the level of murderous to achieve his goals. Indeed in the Hearthstone flashbacks Roshone seem to rely on bullying and peer pressure to try to get back Lirin's stolen spheres, rather than directly threatening his family or imprisoning them. Lirin notes that he is of high enough Nahn to have rights against unlawful imprisonment by Roshone, but the events of the Roshone Affair clearly demonstrate a flaw with that line of thinking. The fact that Lirin and Hesina seem to have grown accepting of Roshone's presence by the events of Oathbringer may indicate that Roshone isn't as malicious as has been suggested. Perhaps Roshone originally proposed an underhanded scheme to pressure Moash's parents into joining his monopoly, but it was Aesudan who chose to escalate matters into imprisoning them? 4 - Elhokar's Cryptic Elhokar had attracted the attention of a Cryptic (liespren) and was on the path to becoming a Lightweaver before his tragic end. We'll never know for certain what specific lies Elhokar had been telling himself that attracted a Cryptic ("I am a good and effective King" seems one painful possibility). His uncompromising belief that his wife was a good person and just ruler seems very likely to have been one of them though. During the infiltration of Kholinar when he otherwise displayed traits of a good leader he repeatedly refused to consider the possibility that Aesudan was responsible for the situation in the city. Admitting this would likely have been one of his Truths for a Lightbringer oath. Thus completes the tragedy of Elhokar, his greatest flaw and the seed of his downfall was loving and trusting his wife too much. 5 - Random Quote That Probably Means Nothing Behold the offhand reference to a card game that Lirin makes when Roshone first arrives at Hearthstone: "The tower" is commonly used as a symbol of House Kholin, it and a crown are the chapter header image for Dalinar. Mentioning the Queen in contrast to the tower here would be a fantastic wink from Brandon if did turn out that the Queen (Aesudan), not the Tower (Elhokar) was responsible for the Roshone affair and its fallout. Or it might mean nothing at all

Oh nice, I think that's a Highspren. The "Essence" corresponding to the Skybreaker order is Vapor, and their polegem is a smokestone.

I'm not a big fan of the change either, since it seems to adopt a highly fictionalized idea of battle that is all too present in media. It seems to adopt the dangerous Batman fiction that you can deliver crushing blows of massive force to someone's head or chest, but the bad guys will only die if the hero purposefully delivers a killing stroke, otherwise they are "just injured". Not only is that of course hilariously unrealistic regarding the sort of injuries that can kill a human, it also breeds an unnatural glorification of "non-fatal" consequence free violence in the minds the reader. Kaladin is a soldier, any time he throws himself into combat he is in "kill or be killed" mode. He is wielding a weapon that can kill a man at a glance if it strikes in the appropriate place. He has fought in multiple battles. Throwing in a sudden implication that Kaladin shies away from a killing strike in the heat of an extended battle seems unrealistic. Ultimately, I think the narrative reason for the change is to set up a future "Kaladin does not kill humans" moral conflict. We see this point reinforced in Oathbringer in the fight in Kholinar (he does not want to kill either side), in the flashback to his drill instructor, and him not delivering the killing blow to Amaram. This seems really bizarre in hindsight for the above reasons, and also because we know he killed a lot of Listeners at the Battle of the Tower. Perhaps this will tie into his 4th Windrunner Oath (being willing to accept the necessity of killing in rare circumstances)?

You mean the ashspren? Where their flesh would turn to ash down the bone and then reappear? I think those were Dustbringer spren. The latent hostility they had to humans seemed to match what we've been told of Malata's Spark. Unless you're referring to something different.

I read it as pretty standard Christian theology and morality about how we respond to our failures. I know Brandon tries not to write his stories as direct religious allegories, but our faiths can have a large impact in shaping our worldviews. Dalinar is a sinner who has acknowledged the error of his ways and now seeks a higher path. This does not completely absolve him of all of his past wrongs, but his journey progresses towards the light. Critical to helping him reach this path was the forgiveness of those he had hurt (Evi). Sadeas never shied from his evil ways and barely pretended they were anything but evil. He simply embraced evil entirely. Amaram refused until the near end to acknowledge that he is a sinner and thus kept on a sinful path. His was a path of denial. Accusing Dalinar of being a hypocrite is wrong because it ignores the fact that Dalinar is currently striving to undo the wrongs that he has done. In the end Amaram submits himself to evil because the internal pain of his own hypocrisy is too much to bear, so he embraces Odium's narcotic "it wasn't my fault" line of thinking. Amaram was offered far greater opportunities for forgiveness and redemption than most would receive by Dalinar in Oathbringer, but he repeatedly chose to reject them because he refused to acknowledge or display contrition for his actions. Taravangian is a sinner who internally understands the evil of his ways, but whose pride keeps him on a sinful path. He wanted the capacity (for himself) to save humanity. He needed to be the protagonist. There were many other ways that he could phrase his wish to help or serve in the salvation of humanity, but his wish was to personally be the one who could save it. His internal justification of his goals are fundamentally wrong, and the fact that so many readers accept them at face value is quite depressing. Almost all evil men see themselves as the heroes of their own story. Don't you think every monster, genocider and war criminal from human history didn't on some level believe that the immediate evil they were performing were somehow justified as serving a greater purpose? Just goals must be supported by good methods. Judge the tree by the fruit it bears. Moash is a lost sheep. His path is leading him to darkness, but of the above examples he seems the most like Dalinar. He's not evil for its own sake like Sadeas. Unlike Amaram, he does not see himself as a hero, if anything he displays a large degree of self-hatred. Self-hatred for your failures suggests a potential willingness to change your ways (Dalinar and Szeth) because it shows the character at least accepts something is wrong. He seems in desperate need of a good shepherd to seek him out and offer him a way back into the fold.

Gotta disagree with you on Moash's Bridge 4 Tattoo fading because he has changed. I think it will have the exact opposite significance. Kaladin and Marsh are reflections of one another. Both are justifiably angry and passionate men who have had incredible injustices done to them by the world. Kaladin had Syl though to act as his light and save him from a downward spiral of empty vengance and self-loathing. Moash will probably need Kaladin to fulfill that role for him. Just as Kaladin can't quite escape the darkness he bears towards lighteyes, I predict Moash won't be able to forget the kindness and redemption that his time in Bridge 4 offered him no matter how hard he tries. Much as Kaladin's slavebrands have refused to fade, I think Moash's Bridge 4 tattoo will prove just as annoyingly persistent. They're yin and yang to one another. Kaladin's a creature of goodness with a taint of darkness he can't let go of (the slave brands), Moash's a creature of darkness with a mark of redemption that will stay with him (bridge 4 tattoo).

No, he'll just desperately and morosely cling to the cognitive realm until a shard takes pity on him so he doesn't have to leave Syl. You thought Kelsier obstinately resisted the pull of the afterlife? Kaladin without his angel-pixie dream girl would put that to shame. Stormlight Archive X: All Dogs Spren Go To Heaven.

Oh God, don't even imply that. Kaladin's ghost will never pass beyond if he can't take Syl with him.

We haven't had it fully explained yet, but it seems to mean creatures that live mostly in the cognitive realm. Some are "ghosts" of dead humans that were preserved by a God's power (otherwise they quickly pass away into the afterlife). Others are splinters of a God's power, which when left alone long enough have developed a level of sentience. These splinters can either be created voluntarily by a shard, or they can be broken off involuntarily. Examples of these are spren and seons. I think the Unmade are a special example of this. I think they're extra large splinters of Odium's power. The sentient ones like Sja-Anat are probably the older Unmade, while the non-sentient ones like Neragoul were probably more recent creations. The first are a mind that is preserved by God's power (investiture). The second is a chunk of investiture that has developed a mind. There are probably other variations beyond those.

Brilliantly deduced! I just arrived at this same conclusion last night, but I see you arrived there quicker than I did, so I'll just add a couple related thoughts. I think Mistborn Secret History provides us the necessary clues of what has occurred with Nohadon. Just as Kelsier's shadow was preserved from passing Beyond by Preservation, I believe Honor did the same to Nohadon's shadow. Kelsier also gives us important clues about the ability of shadows to communicate with and impact persons in the spiritual realm. When Kel's shadow touches another with cracks in their spiritweb (mostly crazy people) they can faintly hear whispers or vague impressions. After repeated attempts to communicate with other skaa, Keslier notes: Later Kelsier is better able to communicate more complex whispers and thoughts to Spook and Vin. This seems to be related to him having a closer spiritual connection to them, and also their spirit being progressively more "wounded". I mention all of this backstory because I think a very similar situation is occurring with Nohadon. As the philosophical founder of the Knights Radiant and author of The Way of Kings, one imagines Honor would have granted a request by Nohadon to be preserved so that his shadow could continue to aid in the struggle with Odium. It's hard to guess what Nohadon's shadow has been doing in the millennia since his death, but in the current trilogy he has been intensely involved in aiding Dalinar to advance in his oaths and resist Odium. Only at the very end, when Dalinar's spirit is nearly broken, is Nohadon finally able to communicate complex thoughts and impressions directly to Dalinar (in a dream, much like Kelsier was able to speak with Spook) and later in the final confrontation with Odium with "always the next step". It stands to reason that he was trying to communicate these thoughts to Dalinar all along, however due to Dalinar's un-wounded soul (Cultivation's boon/blessing), only the vaguest whispers like "Unite Them" were able to get through. Subconsciously he likely communicated other thoughts to Dalinar, for example Dalinar stating that "Sometimes a hypocrite is nothing more than a person who is in the process of changing" (which sounds exactly like the kind of saying historical Nohadon would say!), and later receiving the same line back verbatim in his dream. So why was Nohadon constantly whispering "Unite Them"? Because he was trying to speed Dalinar through his Bondsmith oaths to better oppose Odium! "Unite Them" is probably the best 2 word hint you could give a person of the 2nd Bondsmith oath "I will unite instead of divide. I will bring men together." One can humorously imagine poor Nohadon's shadow repeatedly yelling the words of the oath at Dalinar for several years while Dalinar mulls over who exactly he should unite, instead of just stating out loud his oath to unite men! Even better, check out this brief insertion in Dalinar's thoughts in Chapter 12 of Oathbringer before talking to Queen Fen. Italics are used both to express a character's internal thoughts as well as whispered thoughts from shards/Kelsier. The italicized portion here is Nohadon cluing Dalinar into his 3rd Bondsmith oath! "Do Better" is a two word clue towards "I will take responsibility for what I have done. If I must fall, I will rise each time a better man." (I only caught this because Kindle let me quickly search the book for "unite them"

The Heralds seem to have much more in common with The Fused (and possibly The Returned from Warbreaker and a certain Survivor). I think they're mortals whose bodies have previously been destroyed, but their minds/shadows haven't went beyond due to a god preserving them with investiture. We've seen how the Fused acquire new physical bodies to be reborn (willing sacrifices), I would be curious how the Heralds do so though. I'm pretty sure its the same general concept though.

I could see this being one of two things. The already expressed suspicion that he has gone on a mission to search for his lost people (after speaking to Kaladin about his struggles) is a great guess. My guess would be that Rlain was with Bridge 4 the whole time. One of Rlain's biggest themes in his POV is how the humans in Bridge 4, despite legitimately trying very hard to befriend him, still tend to ignore him and exclude him without consciously intending to. Without Kaladin or Rock drawing the attention of others to him, most of Bridge 4 might just forget to remember him. It's casual ingrained prejudice that most of Bridge 4 won't even realize they have. It mirrors the unconscious prejudices and biases that are very common and very difficult to deal with in the real world. It's a great example of a "micro-aggression", used in an academic sense instead of as an internet inflammatory buzzword. The offenders don't consciously realize they're doing something wrong, the offended doesn't want to bring it up for fear of upsetting people. The fact that none of the POV characters think about him (and many of the readers, myself included, don't immediately notice his absence) is the use of narrative structure by Brandon to drive home a point. "Show but don't tell" you could say

Exactly. If we're talking most loathsome person I vote Taravangian. He is a morally degenerate monster who murders children and the most vulnerable of society all for what he envisions as "the greater good". There is no moral event horizon he will ever shy away from, because the ends will always justify the means. But in the end it won't actually matter though, because as Hoid so succinctly stated, "These are the men...well, these are the men who actually change the world. And they terrify me. For men never see as far as they think they do." I think we can trust the experiences of Hoid on this one, perfectly predicting the future is a fool's game. Even Odium, a god whose shard seems especially talented at seeing into the future, has demonstrated a capacity to be occasionally blindsided by events. Using your best guesses of future events to justify throwing away all moral scruples is monstrous. Taravangian is a fantastically written character though, and I love what depth he adds to the story. If we're talking "detracts the most from my enjoyment of the story", then the sad prize goes to Shallan. It's so strange, because I was really impressed how much she grew as an entertaining and likeable POV character between WoK and WoR. The scene where she inspires the night bandits to transform themselves into better people and try to be heroes again is one of my favorites in the whole series. Oathbringer Shallan/Veil is just dull to me though, her character felt like it was regressing and by the end the Veil-centric chapters especially were just a chore to read. It's not just that her character isn't clicking with me though, she was by wordcount% the most prominent POV character if we don't include the flashbacks. This is Dalinar's book Shallan, stop hogging the present time POV spotlight!

Exactly! When disintegrating baddies with clinical efficiency I just imagine Jasnah as having the exact same expression I did when glimpsing my feline's artistic expression of individualism via the medium of targeted gastrointestinal retroperistalsis.

I arrive home tonight and discover my cat got sick on the edge of a windowsill and there's a line of cat puke down the wall from the window ledge to the floor. I turn a 180 right back out my front door and head to a restaurant for dinner. Was I nonplussed(1), or was I nonplussed(2)?

He's very dead, and we got 2 stark clues: his bonded shardblade appears next to him several seconds after he was stabbed, and his abandoned spren is picked up by Hoid at the end of the book. I think this was intentional by Brandon. After a lot of people weren't satisfied with the double death cheat at the end of WoR, he wanted to clearly demonstrate how we know when someone is dead. Stick a pointy object in them and keep it there until the stormlight runs out. Nale also previously demonstrated similar methods for eliminating radiants, and mentioned the importance of whether the Radiant can unconsciously draw in stormlight when he was baiting Lift in Edgedancer.

I think Szeth is still a crazy person, but the kind of crazy person I'd love to read more about. Both him and Shin culture in general has been extremely opaque so far, so I suspect we would learn a lot from his flashbacks. What did he see and say that caused him to be condemned by his people? Was pre-Truthless Szeth a kind and well balanced person? How close was he to bonding a spren before everything went wrong? Eshonai...I actually don't have a lot of desire to read more about. The shift of her story to Venli was certainly surprising, but I'm just not feeling much interest in either of their pasts at this point. I'm sure Brandon can surprise me with something amazing, but Eshonai/Venli are on the lower end of my internal list of characters I want to know more about right now.

His pack might also contain a detection fabrial specially configured to alert him to illusion magic. It would be rather ironic if Hoid was carting around a fabrial powered by a captured yellow odiumspren at the same time other odiumspren are clearing the city of fabrials. As for the sand, I think it's actually dust. As was mentioned already, Hoid uses a form of lightweaving involving dust, and Vasher even refers to Hoid as "Dust" when Kaladin is looking for him in WoR. Only a couple of preview chapters were posted long ago for Liar of Partinel, and those aren't likely canon by any stretch of the imagination.

But that's my core point, none of the other orders would be nearly as willing to "just follow orders" as the Skybreakers have been. By their very nature the Skybreakers are exceptionally authoritarian and susceptible to corrupt leadership because of their devotion to existing rules and power structures. That's kind of their thing. And it's a bad thing. It was a less bad thing back when a benevolent deity was at the head of their power structure, but it's fairly untenable in the modern era. I think a certain other lawman from a different planet said it well: Even though Wax is a lawman, on Roshar he would be more akin to a Windrunner (or maybe Stoneward?) than a Skybreaker. He rightly sees the law and its enforcement as a mechanism to protect others. He doesn't worship the law itself or regard it as something sacred, rather it is a means to an end (protecting others).

I'll take a swing at the mental health angle, since that's a large part of what I do. Kaladin is pretty straightforward so I'll agree on depression absolutely. Shallan is kind of impossible to diagnose. She doesn't have PTSD, although that term gets overused extensively by the lay community. I would classify her as "childhood trauma", with everything else being a coping mechanism related to that. She's demonstrated avoidance mechanisms, and occasional panic attacks as a result. She has something like a borderline personality disorder also occurring. The "multiple personalities" thing seems to be more a side effect of overuse of her illusion magic than an organic cause as Hoid seems immediately familiar with her problems. I think "Anger Management / Rage" are more the core mental health problems of Dalinar's psychological functioning. Dalinar uses alcohol as a means to an end (self-treating other mental health anguishes), rather than as an end to itself. It is a substance misuse problem, but I wouldn't qualify it as a classic addiction scenario. Indeed he has shown the ability to stop alcohol consumption rather rapidly at multiple points, and doesn't have that constant desire/craving to consume alcohol that is so central to addiction. Teft is a much better example of true substance abuse disorder, the craving to use is always there and he fears regressing into addiction whenever he has free time or expendable income. Alcohol is something Dalinar uses to retreat from the anguish of Evi's loss and later to hide of the re-awakening thrill he feels at Vedenar, he doesn't have a single minded fixation on using alcohol itself just to use it though. Also the alcohol benders are a fairly recent change for him, Dalinar's rage and the consequences of him letting it out have been a black mark on his career as far back as we have flashbacks though.Szeth has a cult mentality. That's not necessarily a diagnosis, but his need to follow an authority it is the source of his problems. For Renarin I'd note that Aspergers as a terminology has been phased out. Autism spectrum (high functioning) would probably be the more correct term. Even with that diagnosis though, I'm not completely convinced. Renarin has certainly shown a large degree of social awkwardness and likely has a history of bullying, but we haven't seen him grossly misunderstanding social cues from others though or acting unusually inappropriate in social settings beyond excessive fidgeting. Jasnah we don't know enough about. She had some sort of acute "madness" as a child, but the fact that it hasn't recurred makes a diagnosis of schizophrenia pretty unlikely. I think she also had some sort of traumatic event occur as child, and the extreme anger+violence she showed to the potential rapist/murderers in Khabranth, along with her comment about learning that even those you love can hurt you probably offers us a sad clue of what kind of trauma she experienced. It will likely be many books before we get a clear picture of her past though. Taln seems like a classic PTSD case. Even after his mind was temporarily restored by Dalinar's rush of stormlight and he started talking lucidly and hopefully, Ash later notes that the sights and sounds of battle reduced him to a catatonic crying mess. He seems like the classic soldier case of PTSD. We'll probably see more of this later. Ash is OCD. Her compulsion is to destroy any images of herself. The scene where she forces herself to look downwards because she knows that if she sees any images of herself she will need to destroy them is a giveaway. It's not a thing she chooses to do, it's a compulsive behavior.

I wouldn't be shocked to discover the advisor was a pawn of Odium to orchestrate events toward their desired conclusion. I don't think it was anyone we have met yet though.

I do like your line of thought on bad luck, I kind of missed that on my previous read throughs of Axies chapters. The Rysn chapter, we could easily dismiss that as simple prejudice against Aimians as the thoughts are being expressed by non-Aimians. The Axies POV chapter though, he himself seems to believe that some level of bad luck does follow him around. I'm not sure if this is a red herring or not, but usually Brandon is up to something when he drops repeated themes like that. Good catch!

A good house can only be build on good foundations, and the Skybreaker house has been built on a base of "gently used" Walmart clearance rack particle board and the kind of glue that you let kindergartners use because it's less toxic if they eat it. There's no need to get philosophical on the corrupting and ossifying nature of institutions here. This is an order that is built entirely around blind obedience to authority and rules. Even a child should be able to predict some potential problems with structuring your institution in that way. It is quite literally a cult at this point. Huge numbers of their members are incapable of resisting Nale at this point. They've sworn oaths to follow him, if they break their oath they will lose their powers and no longer be Skybreakers. It also can't be some happy coincidence that nobody except Nale has ascended to the 5th ideal. The fact they went from blatantly ignoring the spirit of the law and selectively enforcing extreme justice to prevent the return of the Singers (and doing nothing at all to protest the mass enslavement of the Parshmen) to immediately en masse agreeing to swearing allegiance to the Singers should tell you everything you need to know about their internal codes of right and wrong and independent decision making capabilities. They don't have any, they just do what Nale tells them to do. Nale has selected their recruits with this in mind for thousands of years now, and probably eliminated anyone who doesn't quickly fall in line. At their core, the different Radiant orders seem to tackle questions of personal ethics and philosophy. I don't think it's possible to state with authority which ethical basis is the best for everyone, but many of the Radiant orders seem to be based around good and compassionate goals: Windrunners protect the vulnerable, Bondsmiths are peacemakers, Edgedancers listen to and advocate for the downtrodden. I think history has repeatedly demonstrated in graphic detail that "I was just following orders" is an absolutely garbage basis for personal ethics though.