1stBondsmith

The Sanderson's offered me an advance copy. I turned it down so that my wife would get to enjoy the discovery with me as I read it to her starting late on the 13th. My adult daughter and I will be at the release party, buying 17th Shard pins and acting far younger than we are. I have fought hard and long to not spoil those next few planned days off work. My young kids are at relatives, food bought, and no need to leave the house till Friday. Family first, even when it hurts. I second the motion to have @hypatia leading us as the shard of Sacrifice. Well done.

@Ammanas, I have held this sword. Well done.

Dalinar tells Navani (who is wearing another Painrial, that I believe is conjoined to his), that she cannot have his pain, as having a complete understanding of consequences- we will find out- is critical to being a Bondsmith. She is trying to take away his pain. I remember Sanderson stating that he like Bondsmith's best, but he didn't think he could make it through the requirements to be one. This may have been the foreshadow.

When HR tells you there will be a lawsuit from your employees, because you didn't give them international or religious holidays off, but you announced Nov 13-15 as acceptable days not to show up to work. The HR director is not a Sanderfan, and her words are not to be misconstrued as representing those of my company or its leadership.

My neighbor was one of the Kimberly Clark execs that made a great deal of money making MD toilet paper. They sold out a while ago and are venture capitalists now. He told me about a year ago that all toilet paper rolls, (small, jumbo, industrial, even packetized for military are designed for OVER use, exclusively, and that all other attempts to load are against all recommendations and logic. He and I have turned misloaded paper over wherever we go. It's like trying to load a bullet backwards in the chamber. You just don't do it!

Last time Dalinar felt he might be losing it, he abdicated to Adolin. He said Adolin was ready. His loyalty is unassailable. The only thing I think could keep him from choosing Adolin would be some intrigue with finding out late that Adolin killed Sadeas. Some legal challenge might stop him;but if he does not find out, then it is Proving Day for his eldest son.

Adolin! We know Dalinar is hesitant to take it for himself. We know he sees its usefulness. We know that it won't stay with Kaladin, because he is a Windrunner already, and two powered up allies are better than one. Stormfather said it granted more power/knowledge that Dalinar would hesitate to think himself worthy of. It must be in the hands of a close and trusted ally. It is undoubtedly best used by someone who would be eligible to be a champion in fighting, (see coming conflict with Odium's champion). Renarin, and Jasnah are also powered up, so probably not them. It is the choice that yelled out during the chapter he spent staring at the blade and talking to the Stormfather, and his remonstration of himself during the sparring chapter about being older, and "why was he trying to fight a young man's battle". Dalinar has the Bondsmith role with the knights and a new title of King of Urithiru. Can he be flying off to handle things himself, or does he need to be at central command? You could not leave such a power unused with the threats being levied on them. Someone must take up the sword and learn the powers. I don't think this is proof, but it is decidedly the type of foreshadowing Sanderson plants. Besides, who wouldn't think that the Kolin heir is the best choice? It should be so.

Oathbringer Interlude reading warning:

Four things came to mind: 1. Shallan is finally dealing with her "truths", and now will have her brothers there. They know she killed Dad, but probably not that she killed Mom. This will be grueling torture to someone just now not repressing it. Could be serious family turmoil. 2 Why did this obscure family line get a shardblade (from the Skybreakers?), a powerful and rare soulcaster from the Ghostbloods, and a spren bond to become Radiant, and multiple visits from Hoid? All too coincidental if you ask me. Something else is afoot. 3. Did the Ghostbloods bring the family for direct control over Shallan, to show good will to retain loyalty, or for the big reveal about item #2 above? 4. Shallan will reveal the patterns in the stone of Urithiru, but her whole family being there, and her need to go about disguised and not showing her real self (Shallan vs. Lady Radiant vs. Veil) will drive her from the place.

My wonderful wife has been fighting depression for over 22 years. It's a fight. Some medications in recent years had a profound effect on her ability to see good coming, where before, she could not see even common, predictable things as going well in the future. Every day I would tell her the potential good things that would happen that day and in the near future. She would ask me what things could happen to get out of difficult trials we were in, because she simply could not see any of them happening. It took two year of this to have her trust that those things COULD actually happen, because they did over and over, before she admitted to herself she was being unreasonable about her outlook. She relates very well to Kaladin's gloomy outlook that everything he values will be taken and gone. But she is not there anymore. She is back the way she was early in our marriage, and medication was a critical part of that, not just counselling and perspective. Kaladin won't have that benefit. It is a bit hard for me to watch him without the hope he will be able to change entirely. I have been my wife's Tien, and she really fears losing me. (I hope for more than that reason, but she has said it is one of them).

Good point. IIRC, she and one of the 5 went to get the slave. Seems a close tie there for a scholar. She may also have been part of the instructions to the slave and not the vote itself.

That is what came to my mind with her being part of hiring Szeth. Very hard to see why they would want the blame, unless it would take their threatened destruction to be the tipping point to recall Storm Form and activate the Everstorme.

I would refer you to my edit above, but now I do not think you know what protecting means when force is involved. That may be our disconnect.

Actually, you have my belief backwards. I have the ultimate responsibility to protect me and my family, and if I can, the other innocents around me. A government is only created when enough people decide to work together to meet that same goal. It is always the primary role of any government, or all the rest of the functions do not matter. If the government cannot or will not protect me in the circumstance I am in, I must act. It is not vigilante or justice. That comes after he has succeeded in the killing. I am protecting, pure and simple. Are you aware that 36 states have self defense laws protecting a person who is kills someone who "gives the perception of deadly threat" in their homes? They do not even have to be carrying a weapon or say they are a threat. If you feel threatened, you are legally covered for killing them in your home. ( I am not giving legal advice or stating which states so that people do not think I am encouraging them to break laws in their states). Every other state has a return of force when force is used against you defense. In what way could this be vigilante justice? How was Sadeas not a perceived, real, or imminent threat? Adolin was not removing a bother, nuisance, or difficulty, he was killing an active threat. No insanity, temporary or otherwise, no additional duress. Just protecting.

I can see you missed my point entirely. I don't care what legal system I am in; when someone who has killed or attempted to kill before threatens to do so to my family again, that credible threat will illicit a deadly response from me. Government doesn't matter. The reason that Life is one of the inalienable rights is that government has no say in your attempt to keep it. They may impose consequences afterward, or investigate it for justice, but their law does not supersede my responsibility to protect my own life or the life of my family. They may put me in jail, but the should not. They may try to execute me for it, but then I am in the same circumstance as before, aren't I? I may have to weigh the consequence against the value of saving my family member, but I know where I fall on that one as well.

You skipped a great deal of history. Make it modern and personal to get perspective. Someone shoots a bullet into your house. No one hurt. No recourse. Next day, someone shoots 50 bullets into your house, kills 2, and you see who it was as they drive off. Laws of the land say it was random, so no trial for intentional murder. Next day, the man comes into your house. It is your father's friend. You see he is the one from the day before. He says it was him, and that he plans on doing it again to kill your father, for the good of the neighborhood. I drop that man. No murder. Killing. Call the cops to pick up the body. I am protecting the remaining people in the home.

Elhokar- incompetent, but did not order death on anyone we know. A kid on a skateboard can cause a deadly car wreck, but is not guilty of attempted murder. Young Dalinar and Sadeas- sounds like both of them would agree that they deserved to die back then; but who would enforce that? Amaram- Ordered people murdered. In our army, they would be executed or jailed for life. Take him out if you can. The whole series has been using these judgements as a basis for our intrigue, with Brandon trying to show progress that changes our opinion. Except with Sadeas. He has made him loathesome all along. "The ends don't justifiy the means" is under contest the whole story from the Radiants' first oath to the individual paths to save Roshar. I expect an opinion to be shown before the end, but the division among us shows that Brandon is wise to use it to keep our interest.

I know a lot of professional killers with clean tongues, quick wits and even some childish language intended to highlight humor. It is a huge battlefield relief. That quote is something I would say for sure.

Removing a known threat is not wrong. I chop the head off snakes in my yard BEFORE they bite the kids. I don't wait till it does and then remove the snake, or chop off its head. Sadeas killed many of Kholin's men through planned betrayal and said as much to Adolin, sent assassins to kill them, and threatened to do so again straight in Adolin's face. What more could be done to deserve killing? What court or trial could provide more justice? What circumstance needed to occur before a SHARDBEARER was stopped (no court or prison, only death as an option). The threat was neutralized. "One less problem" was a very solid understatement. I don't understand all the nambi-pambi attitudes about killing to protect, when most of the books have been about that theme. It is needed when threats arise. Be strong enough to see it for what it is, and brave enough to risk what is needed to neutralize the threat. How hard do you get to poke the bear before it is justified in squashing you?

Not all killings are murder. Some are self defense, some to protect others. Nobody accused Kaladin of murdering parshmen or Murdering the lighteyes back home, or other deaths in the story. Protection is protection, not murder. By calling it murder, you are changing motive and circumstances and attaching your morals to a killing. Adonlin KILLED Sadeas. -He needed killing.

Didn't any of you notice the part where Sadeas asked Dalinar "Not again. Who did you promise this time?" Dalinar has stopped the spoiling and slaving before. Looks to me like he uses these promises as an excuse to stop the practice more than once. He proposed the terms to the archer, and enforced them quickly without the archer's approval.

@Ammanas, I don't live near Denver, but I do live close enough to Sanderson that I will be at the Oathbringer release party at BYU, with two of my adult children. Not willing to stand in line for the many hours it will take for a personalization, because I want to start reading- alone, with a stock of snacks and drinks. My wife said she wants to read it together after I have finished it so she does not have to put up with the "Ahah!" moments when new Cosmere information is revealed. She says I pontificate too much on those and it ruins the flow of the book. I told her that that's why I fit in with the 17th Shard, and she rolled her eyes... I love that girl!

I have decided that on the two days after the release, all my employees will have a free pass on not showing up to work. Made it policy this afternoon. I expect there will be little productivity anyway. I myself will be hard pressed to accomplish much else. As for the reading, after deep introspection, I have decided I like the visual art, the flow of the book and the build of the "Awesome" moments too much to read it a chapter at a time. I have to leave the boards as of Tuesday and won't return till I have read Oathbringer. It would be like watching a play by play of the first quarter of a football game of your favorite team, and waiting till the end of the season to see the rest. I must wait, and try not to run into anyone who will spoil it for me. Unfortunately, we have over a dozen hardcore Sanderson fans in the company. Maybe I will tie the absence policy to not discussing the book before hand...This will give HR seizures!

...When you start estimating the weight of things around you planning a quick escape from your situation. I have estimated the metal window frames, desk and file cabinets and what is behind them as anchors for a retreat from my office.

I appear to be the first Steel Pusher. I played it straight to my personality, and oddly enough, I like the result.