DeTess

HH seemed to be promoting chaos, which brought Jondesu down on him. He retaliated by voting on Jondesu as well. Winter voted on Jondesu because of his other votes besides those on HH. Edit: I think we might want to discuss the new rules as well. I'm on mobile, so I won't do a big write-up right now, but I think we really need the family excemption act to pass. Also, one or both if the factions would be nice additions I think, and RP for pancakes could help liven things up as well.

That's not really true, Searanatha theranson threson the 45th and a half has played at least 3 games before this one, by my memory. Given the current state of the game, the first lynch would always be rather random.

Hmmm, fair enough.

Sorry for not posting too much. I just don't have too much to add right now. So have a vote tally. Lynch HH(3): Jondesu (x3) Searanatha theranson threson the 45th and a half(5): Drake, King Cole, Elenion, Flash (x2) AliasSheep(1): Drake Elenion(1): Elenion Jondesu(4): Winter (x2), HH(x2) Roleblock roadwalker(1): roadwalker winter(1): winter Searanatha theranson threson the 45th and a half(2): Jondesu, HH, Megasif Lemonelon(1): Lemonelon Straw(1): Straw Drake(1): Drake Sami(1): Sami Randuir(1): Randuir Darkness(1): Darkness Flash(1): Flash While making this one, I noticed something. @winter devotion, is there a reason you singled Jondesu out for voting on Searanatha theranson threson the 45th and a half? He was the first vote, but unlike some others, he didn't actually vote to kill. Also, if your name is not on the above list, you should probably vote on yourself to avoid being boring.

Yeah, I'd prefer not to be boring, if at all possible, so Kel. Also, I really recommend those that haven't done so yet to read through the rules carefully, as I'd missed a couple of the mechanics that are in play on my first skim-through (specifically spheres and pancakes).

This wasn't how it was supposed to go. Nope, not at all. There was supposed to be some kind of grand clash between opposing ideals. War between good and evil, or between Chaos and Law! Or between cat-people and dog-people, for all Kel could care. Not this...this... this... free for all! There was no drama in this, no story, no resolution! No, this wouldn't stand at all. Kel hadn't gone through all that trouble to secure the 'story and history' domain for it all to fall apart like this now. There was a good basis to work with though. The WorldSmith's where great antagonists. they had an ostensibly noble goal, yet their methods where brutal. Now, all that was needed to get a proper story going was a protagonist to oppose them. Kel would have to go and create some friends. Not necessarily his friends, but as long as they where eachothers friends, had an interesting mix of quirky personalities and where intent on opposing the WorldSmiths, it ought to work. ...Or was that too cliche. The universe had only just been created, but Kel was pretty sure that was already a cliche. 'Hmmm, yeah, that idea definitely needs some more work.' He mumbled to himself as he moved through the halls of Creation.

So, I've taken a long hard look at the rules, roles and other useful things, and I've reached several conclusions. This game will be absolutely bonkers. The Worldsmiths are effectively an eliminator faction. All the faction-less are effectively one-man eliminator factions. 1 and 2 are fine, but might I suggest that the rules we submit this cycle will be geared towards changing the third point? Maybe splitting the faction-less up into a number of new factions with unique win-conditions, or something like that.

Thanks, @Extesian

So, I could have sworn there was a WoB about this, but I can't find it. If you steal someone's Feruchemical ability with Hemalurgy, would you be able to use the metalminds of the person you stole the ability from?

Hmmm, an idea I had for a slightly more cohesive concept, uniting the 'creation' and 'family' rules that have been put forward already. Note that this isn't my rule, though if multiple people agree on this concept, I'm definitely willing to provide one of the rules necessary to make it work. Those of you that have ever looked into Greek/Norse/Egyption mythology know that the gods are basically one extended and rather messed-up family. The players in thyis game would basically be the combined gods of the pantheon, and would be working to create the universe. They would however be divided in a number of ideologically different groups (Good, Evil, Law and Chaos, for example). Each faction would be trying to shape the universe in a way that matches their ideology. At the same time, they'd also have to content with inter-god rivalries that transcend factions (such as the brothers rule suggested earlier). What do people think of this idea? edit: and yes, I know this is a rather vague framework, but it will allow for a more unified fluff of the various mechanics, if nothing else.

Wait, we won? I honestly didn't see that one coming. I mean, go court! Of course we won when our opponents where merely wee little forest animals . Seriously though, well played to the elim team in the court thread, and thank you to @Elbereth for explaining what was actually going on. I'm sure everyone did very well on the forest side of things as well, though I haven't followed that as closely. Also, it was nice to see that there was indeed something directly opposed to the medium win-con, as I predicted.

Okay, I did a quick check, and I think we've got all the basics more or less in place. There is a lynch. There are PM's. There are multiple factions so we would actually want to use the lynch. Is anyone still missing any other basic fundamentals?

All right, I think we need some roles. As I'm pretty sure I can't include more than one role, everyone should be encouraged to add to them. So, this game will have roles, one of which will be: Strong-willed. After having died (from whatever cause), you can make one last post. This post will have to be made within one cycle of your moment of death. You won't get access to the dead-doc until you've made this post.

Wow, this is interesting. Signing up as Kel. We might need some roles or something so that there's something that can be done in the night cycle. @AliasSheep, if your rule is about roles, can you include multiple roles as part of the rule?

In broad strokes, the two things I've seen to deal with the issue is an inactivity filter (someone that doesn't post for X cycles dies automatically), and mechanics that directly reward activity (LG30 had Honor that you could earn and that was required to get a role, for example).

Okay, well, I guess the Zeta is no longer an issue. A shame about the miscommunication involved though, as I think Lopen wouldn't have done things that made him appear on people's radar if he'd known he was village. So, since Lopen was village, even though he didn't know it, this lynch was a mis-lynch for analysis purposes. Also, because I'm curious, @Flash, where you correct about your suspicion of who was the Zeta?

Sure. First of all, there's a power on both sides of the fence that allows for day-time PM's, so we can't actually rule out that there has been some communication between forest people on both sides of the fence. I also wasn't sure how much attention DA had been paying to the court thread. It could quite well be that he'd seen something that made him pretty sure Ecth was village, and therefore a fair target to vote on for a forest player. Therefore, his vote made me worry that he'd either spotted something I hadn't, or that he'd had a day-time PM with the elims on our side that fed him some information. Well, I don't think she'd have supported an elim attack on crimsn if she had been evil, and though the rest of the elim team might have just over-ruled that, I haven't seen anything to suggest that crimsn was a high enough kill priority to risk discord within the elim team. That is assuming that Crimsn was the elim kill, of course, but I can't see why the elims would attack someone in the Zeta zone (if that was even possible). Right, so in D2 I'd listed a slight village read on you, mostly because you where working to drive discussion. I remember someone making a remark that that wasn't necessarily alignment indicative, but I can't find that comment right now. However, I do think you'd probably be trying to drive discussion if you felt it necessary for the good of the game, even if you where an elim, so I moved you aback towards Neutral. I've already posted those thoughts (though I'll make them more easily readable in the future, following Elbereth's suggestion). The group of 4 I came up with where mostly the result of process of elimination. I guess I do see your point here about not lynching Flash yet. My main problem is that I don't really have much to go on for my other suspects. However, You might have a point in that lynching Flash wouldn't exactly help solve that information issue. If you go back to the post you quoted and press F5, my thoughts on Lopen right now should magically appear . Edit: vote tally: Drake(0): Flash Lopen(2): Drake, Orlok Elbereth(1): Lopen Flash(1): Randuir

Okay, thanks for the explanation. Well, yes, you are somewhat difficult to get a read on, but that's a valid way to play things. I'll probably try to PM you tonight to try and get a better impression, though I usually try to avoid using PM's for getting reads on people because I've proven quite often that I tend to start trusting almost anyone I didn't already suspect after having a longer PM conversation.

I'm not going to post as much about brunt as I have about the others, as roughly 90% of her posts where RP/trolling or otherwise playing around. 'Chaotic Neutral' indeed. However, @Burnt Spaghetti, could you maybe explain a bit more how your percentage system works(I seem to remember you saying at some point during an earlier game that there's a system behind it)? That way I can get a better idea exactly what your list during C2 meant.

Why exactly does the no CC thing make you think Elbereth is village? I can see Elbereth taking that stance regardless of alignment, and if the elims believe themselves well hidden, it's a good stance to take as it helps with whittling down the number of active villagers quickly. I am however getting a weird vibe from Lopen, which I find strange in and of itself as usually Elim!Lopen blindsides me. I'll go through Lopen's posts next to see if I can remove or substantiate this suspicion. Edit: So, the @TheMightyLopen. 1. Lopen mostly asks questions as he's apparently still trying to get his head around the rules. He's got some good questions as well (such as when the test can be taken). - NAI. 2. Thanks me for explaining how the court and forest win cons work. - Village NAI 3. points out to stink that a mass-test would result in a gunnerkrig loss. - NAI/very slightly village This is an obvious enough conclusion that I'd expect elims to point this out as well, just to score some villager-points, so this is probably NAI. 4. Lopen points out that mass-testing is bad for various reasons, including some very light suspicion throwing at Drake. NAI/very slightly village (same as 3) 5. More anti-mass testing rethoric. - NAI/very slightly village 6. Explains a bit about winter's play-style to me, and suggests that maybe we should not do a lynch D1, as it was late in teh cycle wiht no votes and a bunch of inactive. - NAI. A number of people have remarked on this comment as possibly being from an elim, but I followed similar reasoning and decided that at that point trying to lynch would probably be counterproductive as well. 7. Lopen points out to Ecth that even with the test, it wouldn't be smart for an elim to try a last minute vote switch. He also makes a comment about not minding the vote on Shqueeves. - NAI/slightly elim. I've discussed this comment before. Based on the reasons and interpretation Lopen later gave, this comment is NAI. If taken in a vacuum, the comment about not minding the vote on Shqueeves seems more elim-like. 8. Thanks Shqueeves and Budgie for checking in, and says that he expects the next cycle to be more active. - NAI 9. Asks if Elbereth is granted the Dragonslayer powers the moment STINk indicates he chooses her. - NAI C2 10. Lopen states that he agrees with the idea that the court tries to lynch someone from their thread, and the same for the forest. This sentiment had, at one point or another during D2, been voiced by me and Orlok as well. (NAI). He then explains a bit more about why he suggested the idea of a no-lynch. This explanation does look a bit odd when combined with his earlier statement about not minding the vote on Shqueeves. - NAI 11. Explains his comment about not minding the vote on Shqueeves. - NAI 12. Explains his comment a bit more. He also points out that CC lynches are for getting rid of inactives, and are unlikely to get information in reaction to a post by BR. - NAI. 13. Lopen quickly lists his current reads on the court players. - NAI. Nothing particularly noteworthy about the list right now. 14. Explains his comment about flash having a 40% chance of being evil. - NAI 15. Points out to Clanky that he has only made one anti-lynch comment. He also places his vote on Drake, without too much explanation apart from the fact that he agreed with Orlok. - NAI. The vote without too much context does appear a bit odd, but Lopen has referenced a PM with Orlok in which he apparently talked about his suspicion of Drake, and Orlok hasn't contradicted this, so the vote isn't coming out of nowhere. 16. Explains that his vote on Drake wasn't really bandwagoning, and continues discussion with Clanky, who is voting on him. Also discusses the contribution crusade a bit with Elbereth. - NAI C3 17. Lopen states that he agrees with me with regards to Drake probably/maybe not being an elim. He also explains his reasons for having a village read on Ecth before, where others where suspicious enough of Ecth to lynch him. - NAI/slightly village. Reasonable explanation here. Inf act, I feel like I should have reached a similar conclusion to him during C2, but unfortunately I didn't. 18. Points out to flash that it would be a bad idea to do a CC lynch. - Slightly village. It would have been easy for elim!Lopen to remain quiet here for a bit longer and see if the discussion got derailed by talk about CC before stepping in. 19. Lopen shares some updated reads. Here's also the source for the weird vibe I'd been getting from him this cycle: This seems like very odd reasoning to me, almost like he's just looking for an excuse to move me further down the list so he can later justify a lynch attempt. - Elim read. 20. Lopen asks if flash thinks that Drake would risk a tie if he was an eliminator. - slightly village. an elim might have made that comment, but an elim would probably have followed up with a vote on Flash if he felt like pointing this out, as there isn't too much reason to defend another player otherwise (based on C2, I feel reasonably confident that Lopen and Drake are not on the same team). 21. Lopen defends himself against various accusations from Drake, and then votes on Elbereth. - NAI. I can't really fault his logic for voting on Elbereth, as I used a similar system to narrow my main suspects down to 4. On the other hand, I would have taken Elbereth's status as Dragonslayer into account before considering her for the vote. So, overall, I've got a fairly neutral impression of Lopen. He's said a number of things that make me lean elim on him, but also a number of things that make me lean village.

Okay, I'm going to do a bit of post by post of the four I listed as my main suspects. Before that, though: I'd say everyone here, court or forest, has a vested interest in independent alignments, as I doubt they are of the 'just survive' type(as that would be a bit boring, and Aonar/Joe are not boring). Knowing what they want can be important for both factions in the end-game. And I just don't like not knowing some of the mechanics in play, there's that too. So yes, I'm interested in the possible alignment changes, but I'd say that's rather NAI . Anyway, I'm going to start with @Shqueeves(and I'll be stealing BR's way of formatting these.): 1. Apologizes for not posting, and votes STINK for medium. - NAI 2. Says he's caught up again, and that he'll post more thoughts when he's had some sleep. - Anyone who says thinks like this is an obvious elim, just like at that Rand fellow [/sarcasm]. obviously NAI. 3. Another apology for being silent, now with an explanation. He places a vote on Ecth with reasonably good reasoning. - NAI 4. Actually colors his vote for ecth red. - NAI 5. Says hello to Burnt, and says he'll probably PM her during the night. - NAI So overall, I can conclude with 100% certainty that Shqueeves hasn't posted nowhere near enough for me to get a good idea about his alignment. So, maybe @Flash will be easier to read. 1. Announces his rebirth and flips the verbal bird to the forest as he announces that he is now gunnerkrig (ie, village). - NAI 2. Says that seeming enthusiastic is normal behavior for him. - NAI 3. Asks if we can assume that winter was the elim kill. -... Not sure what to think here. This seems rather obvious, so maybe he's playing up his not-knowing of that to seem more village? This is definitely not NAI, but whether it's elim or village *shrug*. 4. banter with forest players. - NAI 5. Converses with jondesu about the motives behind his death. - NAI. I'm tempted to put an elim read here, as he seems to be trying to help the forest find his killers, who are gunnerkrig, but I don't think I would have been able to restrain myself from adding information here if I was in that situation. 6. The main point of this pot seems to be to once again remind us that he's gunnerkrig now. - Slightly elim. Okay, that's three times in one cycle that he felt the need to mention this. Starting to get slightly suspicious here. 7. Says he's going to think more about why he was killed (which is fine, as long as he doesn't share it with he forest). He also agrees with the reasoning for the ecth lynch, but that he won't vote before he's been able to do some of his own analysis. - NAI 8. Flash indicates that he won't have time for the analysis after all. - NAI 9. Apologizes for not participating in the lynch, and that he didn't expect that day to be so busy for him. - very slight elim. He said that he agreed with the reasons for the ecth lynch, but he didn't participate in any way. this makes me wonder whether he had additional knowledge. 10. Notices that Zeta has triggered. - NAI 11. Points out to Orlok that he probably shouldn't be posting as he was in the zeta zone. Says that the zeta activation will be interesting, and wonders whether 'boring' did this. - NAI 12. Says that he thinks 'boring' couldn't have affected the large number of forest critters pulled into the zeta zone. - NAI 13. Says that he doesn't expect everyone to return from the Zeta zone, and suggests they try to use powers to see what will happen. -very slight village. Given the larger number of forest people in there, encouraging them to do stuff that has the potential to kill them isn't exactly bad. 14. Shares his reads, and makes a case for why he might be a decent medium. As part of this case he also talks about the odds involved with his alignment, and that we should only lynch him if we have arguments to the contrary, rather than lynching him because the 40% chance of him being an elim. -NAI. reads are nice, but I'd have liked more elaboration on Drake apart from 'his posts seem off to me'. He also takes the opportunity to once again reminds him he is definitely village. 15. Says that he'll have a lot more time once he's done with his essay, and asks if it's reasonable to assume thatcrimsn was the elim kill. - NAI. Unlike with his question about winter, this is actually not very obvious, so it's not indicative that he asks about it. 16 and 17 Explains about what he thinks happened to stick. - NAI 18. Asks STINK why he thinks the current elim kills are bad. - NAI/slightly village, maybe. It certainly is an interesting thing to pick up on. 19. Suggests the possiblity of a CC lynch. - elim 20. Says he still has a gut suspicion of Drake, and that he's working hard to try and catch an elim for the first time. -NAI, but really, I'm seeing far too many posts from Flash that can be summarized by 'I'm really a villager, you guys!' without losing much in the way of content and insight. This makes me suspicious. 21. Asks a couple of questions of Orlok and Clanky. Also repeats that he's still suspicious of Drake, saying that his posts set off alarm bells. Finally, he asks everyone who hasn't been posting much to post more. - Neutral(yes, that's different from NAI). Asking the questions and trying to encourage activity is all good. Saying that he's suspicious of Drake without actually providing examples of what makes him suspicious isn't. 22. Chucks a bit of suspicion towards Orlok over the Ecth lynch. - slight elim. I don't know about Orlok's bussing strategy, but if he said Drake's lynch up, he would have had Drake try to break it, not do it himself, risking getting both of them lynched. Flash's comment therefore seems rather unreasonable. 23. Places his vote on Drake, and admits that he hasn't much to support it with. Also points out that apparently a couple of player metas have changed. -slight elim. Again, this seems like fostering a bit of suspicion without actually committing by providing examples of why someone is evil, or how people's metas have changed in a signifcant/alingnment indicative way. 24. Wonders whether drake risking his live on the lynch was a kind of Wounded Wallaby Gambit. Also repeats that he's village. - Neutral. The explanation for Drake's actions is not unreasonable. It's also (at least) the fifth time in 2 cycles he felt the need to remind everyone that he is village. 25. Explains that he meant to say Wounded Gazelle Gambit, not Wounded Warthog Gambit. - NAI So that's flash. Right now I'm leaning elim on him. He just seemed to spend too much time trying to remind everyone that he's village, either by outright saying it, or by saying rather obvious villagery things ("I really want to catch an elim"), while his suspicions are not supported much at all. I'm taking a short break here before I do the other two. I'm going to vote Flash for now, though I might change that later once I'm done looking at Burnt and Lopen.

Okay, I'm having trouble with coming up with someone I'm super suspicious of, so instead I'm going to do a quick list of people I'm either leaning village on, or that I just don't want to lynch this cycle as I believe lynching them would negatively affect activity and information gathering. Probably village BrightnessRadiant, as I actually believe her comment about signing up to RP with crimsn and ecth. Randuir, as I probably haven't misread my GM PM. Maybe village Drake, as I don't believe an elim would be actively trying to hold a tie in place of which he himself is part. Clanky, as he moved too aggressively after Lopen for an elim. Hopefully still Neutral Stink Elbereth Inactive Meta Asterion Of the 7 remaining drought has only posted only twice thrice (though his second post did contain some game-related stuff), so though I do want him to be more active, he hasn't said enough to justify a lynch this cycle. That leaves these 6: Locke Tekiel (Orlok Tsubodai) Budgie (A Budgie) Carrie Brule (Burnt Spaghetti) Shqueeves (Shqueeves) Lopen (TheMightyLopen) Bart Allen (Flash) I'd like budgie to try and post a bit more regarding her suspicions, as sticking mostly with RP could just be a hiding technique. It could also be as she said,and that she's just looking for something to contribute as this is her first game. Either way, I'd prefer to wait a bit more before starting a lynch on her. I know I put Orlok on a slight village read before, but (as he himself pointed out, I think), what I saw as village was merely 'good for the game', which I reckon elim!orlok would do as well. I'd prefer not to lynch him this cycle for that reason yet, though. so, all together, I'd be okay-ish, with lynching Flash, Lopen, Burnt or Shqueeves this cycle. I wanted to actually place a vote right now, but it's late where I'm at, and I want to take another good look at these 4 before voting.

Thanks for the explanation, Flash. I hadn't read that role in enough detail.

Why do you think this? I might have missed a relevant portion of the pre-game thread. I originally thought this was an effect of being taken to the Zeta zone, but stick hadn't gone there.

A shame about crimsn, but the butcher's bill is in our favor here if we compare with the forest. That's ignoring alignment changes, of course. @STINK, should we be looking for a replacement for the role of medium? Anyway, I'll answer a couple of the questions I was asked in PM's after I already signed off for the day. Most of that was stuff I don't mind sharing with the thread as a whole. So, first of all, the Ecthelion lynch. The people from this thread that voted on him at one point or another where me, Brightness, shqueeves, Drake and Orlok, if I'm not mistaken. Me, Shqueeves and Brightness voted for him for similar reasons (his behavior D1 seemed rather odd), Drake seemed to vote for him to try and keep a tie up, and Orlok voted because he was suspicious of Both Drake and Ecth, but wanted to see more of Drake to further form his opinion. All in all, none of these reasons for voting stand out too much. I'm honestly somewhat surprised at Drake's attempt to force a tie, but it makes him seem somewhat village in my eyes, as an elim wouldn't have taken the risk, and most people would have been able to get away with a vote out of self-preservation if the other target was a reasonable suspect. The retracted votes where mine, Brightness and Drake's. Drake's retraction had again to do with his attempt to keep a tie up. DA's vote on Ecth made me wary that something else might have been going on, and Brightness found Ecth's explanation good enough. If I put on a particularly paranoid hat then brightness's retraction might make me wonder a bit, but someone else wearing that hat would probably look somewhat suspiciously at my own retraction as well, so I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt here. This doesn't mean that nothing can be learnt from the Ecthelion lynch. However, it is at the moment only one piece of the puzzle, and more pieces will be needed to get the full picture. Now, on to a reevaluation of some of my reads, starting with Drake. I'm getting more of a village vibe from his post last cycle. As I mentioned before, I really don't think an eim would have done the 'keeping a tie' thing, unless he had already agreed with another elim that he/she would bail him out. This second option is a possibility, but I think it's unlikely, as it comes with the risk of two elims getting revealed for the price of one (ie, if we lynch drake, and he's evil, we should take a good look at the people that swung the vote in his favor). Next up is Clanky. I'm actually starting to lean slightly village on him now after seeing how he went after Lopen. I don't think an elim would risk putting himself this clearly on Lopen's radar this early in the game, unless he expected to be able to get Lopen lynched (and if that was his goal, I'd have expected evil!clanky to switch votes to one of the other candidates when the Lopen lynch didn't really get going to try and get under the radar again). The last person I've been asked about was Lopen. Most of last day he spent defending himself against suspicions and accusations. I don't see any major holes in most of his defenses (things could quite easily be the way he said they are), but he hasn't really posted anything that is alignment indicative. However, @TheMightyLopen, I am interested in what made you get the feeling that Ecth was village. You weren't wrong, so I'm curious about what I missed and/or overlooked. One more thing I wanted to take a look at is why crimsn got targeted by the elims. The only real suspicion she outed during D2 was a suspicion of Drake, and if Drake is an elim after all I don't think the wee lil' forest critters would want to attract attention to themselves in that way. Has she shared some suspicions in PM's with anyone? Or alternatively, does anyone know if and to whom she has role-claimed? Edit: Also, if those of the 'Empty' alignment could step forward, please, and share their win-con, I'd appreciate it.