Magestar

Geez, y'all are going absolutely crazy. Because you were village last time and your tone now is different from when you were village? IIRC, I had a pretty village read on you all game LG66, except for paranoia near the end. Response above. And I was saying that's how I act regardless of the game I'm in. I think the problem, in my mind, is that Ventyl's actions seem so out of the park weird that I can't see an Elim team allowing them to do them. I guess that was the case in LG67 as well... I don't know. I could see Ventyl being an Elim; the problem is I'd assume that a decent elim team wouldn't let Ventyl continue to act like this. Ah. See, this isn't wrong. This is exactly what Ventyl did in LG67. The question for me is whether it's how they act as an Elim, or just how they act. I'll move my vote to Ventyl for now, just to stir things up and lower the lead on TJ. I might move it back before the end of the cycle.

Nooo. No you're not. You're claiming, or at least pretending to. And the cycle still has over a half a day left. This is what made me suspect you this cycle. You just seem really frantic for some reason, and it's very different to me from how you acted in the previous game I was in with you. I guess I'd appreciate a second opinion. Is it just me reading TJ this way?

I'm voting for TJ is because they're as good a lynch as anyone. Their lynch will give us some information, I don't see a better one, and some of TJ's posts seem a little uncharacteristically frantic. That seems pretty decent for D1. I still don't see TJ's point. It just seemed like grasping at straws to me. Why would you doubt the Elims can make squires? I didn't see anything in the rules that would even suggest that. Where are you getting Honorblades from? If Ventyl's an Elim KR, wouldn't it make sense to kill them sooner rather than later, so they don't squire? I'm so confused. And I've been ninja'd a half dozen times. Whatever.

I mean, it was weird. Your response was just also weird. I might have said this before, but for me it's because role analysis such as yours is a good way to look like you're contributing while also playing it extremely safe. It's a good way for Elims to hide. This isn't always the case, and it's not something to put all your bets on either. But last game I was in I was suspicious of Xino for doing the same thing and they flipped Elim. And it's not necessarily bad reasoning for C1. Gears' posts are kind of odd to me. Is this their first game? The TJ lynch is certainly moving along. @Straw, could I get a vote count? I think TJ is as good an option as anyone at this point. I'd also consider Matrim. I'd rather not lynch Gears yet if this is their first game. @StrikerEZ I keep wanting to try and extend my posts to over 200 words.

Ah, sorry about that.

Well, this post is probably going to be a little rough. The shard has now eaten it twice. Third time's the charm, I suppose? Eh, I said I wouldn't talk about this anymore. Oh well. Regardless of alignment, although especially as an Elim, there's not necessarily a lot of incentive for me to post early and often. If I see a "poke" vote on me, however, it means that I'm already on people's minds. I tend to view the thread a lot before I post normally, so it's not unlikely that people will see me viewing the thread. If there's a vote on me, I see it, and I don't post, it looks bad. So it might just be a me thing, but having votes on me makes me nervous, and encourages me to post faster, rather than letting things simmer. This is especially the case given how often people get C1 elim reads on me. A good example is Araris' first vote on me in LG66. He'd probably say it was a stab vote. But I normally wouldn't have posted yet, and instead would have taken some time to analyze things a bit more. Instead, I decided to post dismissing his vote. On that note; I do think poke votes are NAI. Araris' stab vote on me in LG66 is a good example. I think you'd say that's the more useful kind of vote, but Araris was a kandra in LG66. There's no reason Elims can't do either kind of vote. Anyway. Interesting discussion, if not terribly useful. I feel like Gears' hasn't really said much besides extrapolating information from the roles. There's not a lot in there that really helps the village, IMO. This seems very odd. Ash's thing isn't really suspicious at all. You could say it seems a little like couching, but even villagers do that. I do that. And the second quote seems like grasping at straws. Don't let the paranoia overtake you, TJ. Hmm. What else. Ventyl's odd behavior seems normal for what I've seen of Ventyl, although they were an Elim in the only game I've played with them, so it's hard to say. The thing with Matrim and Striker is a little odd, but not necessarily alignment indicative. Could be a distancing tactic if they're both Elims, but that's a stretch this early. I'll throw a vote on TJ for now.

Good grief. You guys are so talkative. Shame my shift started at one today. I appreciate this. My goal for the previous game I was in, this game, and future games is to hone my analysis skills, which I feel are somewhat lacking. It's something to do during quarantine, anyway. So uh. Is this poke vote debate thing new? I don't think I've seen it before. I remember the "typical" poke vote being the norm. Anyway, I don't think it's really a big deal. It seems to be between people who vote to get people to post and people who vote to get people to post, through slightly different methodology. I like the discussion driving votes, such as El's; they definitely have good reasoning behind them. They stir the pot, get discussion moving. That's good. But I also don't really see anything wrong with the "I voted on you because you haven't posted yet" thing either. It gives a little pressure; not much, but it's there for sure. I'm always more likely to post if I have a vote on me, anyway. I don't think it's necessary to differentiate those and other kinds of poke votes. I think "poke" vote describes both fairly well, although the term stab vote amuses me. People have different styles, and I think this is more of a stylistic thing. And those are all my thoughts on the matter, and it's probably all I'll say. While it's certainly an interesting topic conceptually, it's something I don't think is terribly useful to finding Elims. I have to agree with Sart on this one. I personally tend to think that a lot of "unkeyed" role analysis, where you just analyze the roles without giving suggestions, leans a little more Elim, especially in newer players. It's a good way to seem like you're helping while really just hiding. On the other hand, analysis specifically directed towards helping the village, with specific points on what certain roles mean to the village and how they should be used, leans a little more village for me. This is mostly the case in newer players, and is sort of a general thing. It's not always accurate, but it does influence my suspicions. Other things... I don't have a lot of other thoughts immediately. I like what El's doing, but I don't think it's terribly alignment indicative given that it's El doing it. I might share some other suspicions later in the cycle, but I'll probably hold back for a bit and see where things go. I will definitely vote by the end of the cycle. Today's been a long and busy day for me, but tomorrow is my day off so hopefully I'll be able to post more.

I didn't really get a chance to experience the Archivist ability, really, and I don't think I'm really knowledgeable enough about balance to comment, but I am curious; what were the sort of things that were options for the Archivist to learn? Anything that any of the other info-grabbing roles in the game could learn? Was there also some useless info mixed in?

Frankly, I think you did well enough to have won. Idk if in that scenario the village would have won or the Kandra, though. I was picturing 1-2 Elims and 2-3 villagers, not the 4 villagers: there, I think I personally would give the village precedence. It would be a close one. And dang, I feel like nearly everyone has commented that the bulletproof vest is too powerful. I've seen a couple of these Twinborn name charts. I don't really like any of the names for Augur/Brute I've seen, but Augmenter is the most amusing. Quite punny.

... Well, I suppose Reginald is glad he ended up killing you then.

Someone bought the Lerasium bead? What. I actually am really fond of the boxings and items mechanic. Even if you ignore the fact that items are awesome, having a reward for posts of a certain length and quality definitely encourages activity and analysis. Sure, it lead to a couple rather rambly posts and a couple of people splitting their posts into 200 word blocks, but overall I think that it was worth is and conceptually is a good idea. I also sold my charged spike, so that's another time it was used. I sort of agree that the Kandra needs some work, but I liked the element of difficulty playing the Kandra had in this game. I don't think the Kandra should have to die or anything for the village to win though. Maybe adding something like you said, where the Kandra wins at 2-4 players left besides the Kandra would work. But the fun for me would definitely come from how difficult it is to win as the kandra. There could definitely be changes, but I think that should be the core. It shouldn't be too easy to win as an SK. Roles... I liked that there were so many possible role distributions in this game. This game could easily be run a dozen times and be different every time, because of how many different roles there are. With twinborn, the possibilities only increase. Some of the Feruchemy roles could probably be re-worked; I agree that spinner is a little lackluster, and a few of the self-target scanning roles could probably be altered slightly. There just seemed to be a lot of them. The bulletproof vest was probably too powerful rather than too low-priced. I think at most it should be the thugs ability in item form. A guaranteed night of being unkillable is super strong. Usually two nights and the possibility of three nights is kind of ridiculous, especially for roles which already have protection, like mine.

Woah, a reasonable rollover time. I'll join. Sign me up as Mantle.

I wanted the Lerasium. I had just gotten enough boxings for it and I figured we could kill Mist in the night cycle and then I could have the Lerasium. I wasn't too concerned about winning at this point anyway. But then I figured that probably wouldn't be fair to the other villagers if we ended up losing somehow. Oh well. I don't know how scrappy it was. Lucky, yes, weird, yes. But I think after a certain point we were pretty much guaranteed a win. When you and I both got vests and figured out Mist was an Elim it became almost impossible for the Elims to win IMO. I at least feel I would eventually have turned on Pyro if Ash hadn't killed him. Yeah I also was never going to protect Pyro. I was kinda hoping to get to the point where there was only one player left who didn't have any form of protection so I could use my three-charge on them, and kill the final Elim. Well this is hilarious. Kinda disapointed about that TBH. I'm rather pleased that my gut reads about Xino, Kynedath, and Kidpen were all right. My analysis kinda sucked this game, but that was pretty decent. Good job as Kandra. That must have been tough. I had fun reading through your Doc, where you basically said some variant of "It's over." almost every turn. It was also fun reading the Spec doc lol. It was amusing, if not entirely gratifying, seeing it parallel - or possibly preempt - my own posts about my experience and the Joe game. And dang Mist was active in the Elim doc. That was surprising to me, given how quiet they were in thread. edit: for some reason the bottom half of my post got eaten? Ok... Great game everyone! Striker, Bard, great job on this game. All the write-ups were excellent, especially this last one. The game felt really well balanced as well, although I admit that I don't know a lot about that. I think my favorite part about the game was the activity incentive inherent in the boxings system. I'm a huge fan of activity incentives, for the most part, and items are great. I think it definitely made the game better. I enjoyed the game from most other perspectives as well; RP was great, gameplay was great, and the mechanics were fun. I hope I didn't bother you guys too much with my clarification questions.

Eh. This is probably not the best idea. Mist. Sorry lol

I'll throw a vote on Lahilt for a bit.

Well if Lahilt hadn't voted for you I'd have tied up the lynch for the lols. Kinda too late now tho. I believe the vote count is currently: Mist (4): TJ Shade, Magestar, Ashbringer, Lahilt Lahilt: (1): Mist

Are you admitting to being the last Elim?

What do you mean it appears to have worked? And for what it's worth, I'm not suddenly suspicious of you, I've been moderately suspicious of you on and off all game. I'm also pretty sure I haven't expressed very many new suspicions of you this cycle... do you have something specific in mind? The question is whether or not we can trust Pyro's info.

I thought you were doubting the likelihood of two Tineyes existing. My bad. Not like it would really have changed what we'd done anyway. It wasn't anything we could prove, and role-based alignment guessing isn't always super accurate. I don't think being a tineye is necessarily alignment indicative. edit: I realize that such an assumption also makes no sense, since PMs were still open. -sigh-

I actually think we should just lynch Mist. I don't know if Mist is an Elim, but unless there were seven Elims, as long as you and I are both alive they can't win, right? So we should be pretty good. I just need you to not Lander the last player you mention on the seventh page of our PM with Pyro before Pyro says LOL. You can pick another player you think it might be useful to Lander, just not that one. I don't know what's up with this whole slider thing. Didn't we have info that Lahilt self-targeted, making their role claim pretty likely? What I don't understand is Mist's claim. Why would you even use an RB on Lahilt? It doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially since the trap was used during the day cycle. It makes me even more suspicious of Mist. I'm kind of in a weird place though because if we kill Mist today and they're the last Elim, the game ends. And I'm kinda enjoying it too much to want it to end. That makes sense. Looking back, an Elim Tineye makes a lot of sense. Too bad I didn't see it sooner.

Well. Now would be a good time to say who you targeted. Really no reason not to.

Yeah. It’s a little odd. I guess in my case they could have thought I was bluffing about the vest. For kidpen, maybe they just missed it? That could be the case for either, really. Idk.

Pyro knew I was an Augur if that's what you're asking. Thanks TJ. So, here are a couple of odd things. The Elims have done a lot of things that seem a little random, or a little odd. First, it looks like they go after inactives. Then their MO changes, and they hit a few active players. They attack me twice, for some reason. The weirdest thing to me is the Ventyl lynch. Pyro pushes a lynch on Ventyl, bringing up the fact that the whole "they lied about their role" thing, despite being their teammate. There's a couple possible explanations here. First off, Pyro could have revealed early Ash's suspicions in order to weaken them, knowing that Ventyl was in fact a Leecher. Kind of odd given that Pyro continued to push that lynch. A possibility, though. The second possible explanation is that the whole thing was a ploy by Ash and Pyro and Ventyl, all being Elims, to bus Ventyl and clear themselves. This would be a little odd given how vehemently Ventyl defended themselves, and subsequently attacked Ash. The whole situation was odd. I don't really know what's more likely. Given that Pyro bused, I wouldn't necessarily be surprised if Ash was part of it. But I'm unsure. It could have been a botched attempt at a bus or a sort of gambit. Pyro also put "the deciding vote" on Ventyl. I think this was likely a ploy, given the canceled vote that cycle was likely from Pyro storing. But the problem with that is that if Pyro hadn't stored, and had put their vote on Mist, they could have tied the lynch. I guess that Pyro could have been worried about being implicated if they voted for Mist but Ventyl got lynched. It just seems odd to me. Ventyl was active, and many Elims were not; why bus them? Finally, I’m going to note that if I’m assuming the Elims may have bused Ventyl, my reasons for having a village read on Lahilt basically go out the window. All I'm really left with is a village gut read. Here's another thing; I feel we've been ignoring the possibility that the last Elim and the Kandra are the same individual. It's a definite possibility. Jeez I’m feeling paranoid. I'm going to put a vote on Mist for the moment. If these past couple posts look a little odd, it's probably because I wrote them all as one giant post over the course of several hours and then segmented them, posted parts of them, and edited the later parts as I went. To lighten the mood a little, here's some RP! With some creative liberties. Striker I hope you don't mind me doing out the attack on me. It was kind of mentioned that I was "attacked but survived" as part of the Kandra attack, but I wanted to write a fight scene. Reginald grit his teeth in frustration. A child? A child? The Loyalists had recruited a child! And now Darson had her, and who knew what he was going to do to her. Reginald had barely managed to haul the Kandra off of Pyria with Lumen's help, and now she was gone again. A child! What sort of monster recruited a child? Reginald had spent the evening storing his strength while recovering from the tainted gold. He had decided to wait to burn the last of the vial he'd found, and now he was glad of the decision. He'd need it in the future. He'd barely managed to survive, emptying one of his metalminds just to fend off the Kandra. What a monstrous creature. Reginald calmed himself, letting the warmth from the reserve of gold within him soak through his body. He wouldn't tap it, not yet. There was other work to be done. Reginald stalked down the hallway, heading towards the main room. He would have to speak with Lumen. He could trust the person who had helped him save Pyria. Then he would have to - Suddenly a dagger flew out of the darkness, striking Reginald in the chest. Immediately he tapped strength, feeling the reservoir in his final metalmind drop precipitously as his arms and legs suddenly swelled with power. The dagger bounced off of the mail shirt hidden underneath his suit and clattered to the ground. Reginald fell back into a defensive stance as a dark figure swept silently down the hallway, a second blade in it's hand. Harmony's Bands! Darson had been right. There were other loyalists left. The figure moved forward, dagger held out offensively, free hand held slightly back, palm open. This man knew how to fight. Reginald cursed. There wasn't time to get to the others. In moments, his assailant was on him, the knife flashing forwards in quick strokes and quicker strikes. Reginald stepped back quickly, his heavy body now a disadvantage. He wouldn't be able to dodge the knife for very long. He'd have to make a move. Reginald stopped backing up, instead moving in and to the side. He growled, letting the knife glance off his mail coat, and dealt a heavy blow to his assailant's side. The man grunted, stepping back as Reginald twisted, throwing and landing another punch. The knife swept out, gouged a chunk of flesh from Reginald's arm. Reginald grimaced. The man stepped back, shaken by the blows. He was wary now, and adopted a more defensive posture, circling Reginald slowly. Reginald stopped tapping strength, storing it instead. He felt his body shudder and shrink. Despite his size, Reginald was not really a fat man. Most of his mass was muscle, a useful trait in a Brute ferring. There was a common misconception about storing strength; that doing so made you weak. Reginald knew better. By storing only a portion of his strength, his muscle mass decreased, taking his body from the size of a heavyweight fighter to a lighter weight class in mere moments. He was weaker now - this was true. His punches would pack less power. But he was also faster. The attacker leapt at him, the dagger streaking towards Reginald's chest. An obvious feint; the attacker knew Reginald wore mail by now. His face was now the only viable target. Any other target, and the man knew Reginald would kill him with one blow. Reginald moved quickly, anticipating the upward stroke of the blade. The shadowy man, anticipating a slower Reginald, overreached just slightly in his attack, the tip of the blade only nicking Reginald's cheek. Reginald exhaled, time slowing as he tapped the remainder of the strength in his metalminds. His body swelled tremendously, his muscles creaking as he countered the assailant's strike. The man went flying, but rolled as he hit the ground. He took the blow marvelously well. But the fight was over. Reginald watched as the man retreated. He'd taken too much damage to continue. Reginald's muscles deflated like an empty balloon. He grinned. That was how fights should be. Reginald had an advantage in most fights, his Brutish nature granting him power over his opponents. But against a knife, all advantages were gone. One misstep, and he would have died. If not for the mail vest, he would already be dead. He had survived. But his reserves of strength were gone. It would be the last time he fought like this. He needed to get out.

That's fair, I suppose. I'm not really suspicious of you. The tone of some of your posts is just a little odd. So, I'm going to do what everyone else has probably already done and go over the list of remaining players and do some quick analysis. Nothing too in-depth because going through all the posts at this point would take an eternity. Karnage - Karnage has been largely inactive in-thread. However, they've looked at this thread a couple times, and have been on and off the shard numerous times in the past couple weeks. They're not totally inactive, which means that it's entirely possible that they've been active in the Elim doc. There's not a whole lot to go on here, however. There's also the situation with Hatz at the beginning of the game, and the situation with Ventyl, which make me doubt that Karnage is an Elim. They could, however, be Kandra, at least in theory. Lahilt - I'm fairly confident that Lahilt is village. I can't say for certain, but I don't think that Lahilt is an Elim. There's not a whole lot of info to go on, but I've already covered my reasoning for this. I'll link that post here. Likely village, IMO. TJ Shade - The self-claimed village coinshot. As I stated in my previous post, this seems to check out. The actions of the Elims also don't make any sense for TJ. They didn't vote for Ventyl... in fact they pushed a lynch on Mist over Ventyl on the cycle Ventyl got lynched. Hmm. Anyway, I think TJ is basically cleared by their actions, activity, and analysis despite some of the odd things they've done. The only weird thing is that they occasionally overreact or it seems like their faking their responses to certain events. That's what gives the odd tone to their posts, I think. Likely village. Mist - Mist claimed thug. Given their recent survival, I believe them. I don't think it's necessarily unlikely that the Elims had a thug... but six members including a thug seems like a lot. So I'm not sure. I believe I've been suspicious of Mist previously. They voted for both Hatz and Kynedath, known Elims. They didn't vote for Ventyl, but instead voted for TJ. A little odd, but nothing too weird. Neutral read. Ashbringer - PMed me saying they thought Pyro was an Elim at the very end of last cycle. Claimed to be role blocked to me in a PM on a cycle when no one should have been able to roleblock them. They've been soft-cleared a number of times via a number of things they've done. The biggest thing is that they pushed the Ventyl lynch hard. The problem is that Pyro also pushed the Ventyl lynch, and Pyro is a known Elim. Idk about Ash at this point. Magestar - Then there's me. I should be clear at this point. If I'm not clear y'all crazy. I just realized how long this post is gonna be so I'm gonna split it up a bit. Vote and analysis of a few odd things in my next post. RP when I finish it. If I seem paranoid it's because I am.

Yeah I noticed that. It took me like three tries to get one post out; I can't imagine what it was like trying to do rollover. Fantastic writeup, by the way. I love what you did with Pyria. I do want to kill Darson though. Alright. I'm going to use this post to clear the air around this cycles stuff, and get some info out there to work with. ...TJ I trust you more than anyone else, but the tone of this post is really odd. I was right to be paranoid? The Elims deserve to win? You're freaking me out mate. Anyway, I can at least confirm that the people TJ has told me he'd target have been dying, starting with Kidpen and going up to Mist. Assuming that there's no shenanigans going on - which is a terrible thing to assume, really - it's impossible for TJ to have attacked both the people he said he would and the other's who have died. There's no way TJ could have attacked me this cycle or the previous cycle, and I don't think the Elims would have a coinshot on their side, so I'm fairly confident that TJ is village. The odd thing is that there's no reason Pyro would have attacked me. They knew I had a vest. At least, I mentioned it several times in group PMs with Pyro, so I'd expect Pyro to have known. Very odd. Ash and TJ also knew that I had a vest. The four of us had a group PM. @Ashbringer, you PMed me last cycle saying that Pyro might be an Elim. You've explained why you sent the info so late, but I'd love to know where you got that information. I'm a little confused by your explanation as well. I think at this point it's best to be fairly open with information. @Mist. I know you targeted me last day cycle. That was also the cycle I was roleblocked out of my Augury. Why did you target me? I'm fairly certain there aren't seven Elims. That seems a little much. So, I guess what I'm saying is I hope there aren't seven Elims. So there's probably only one left. Given that, the Elims can't win until, on the outside, there are three players left. There are currently six players left. With one lynch this cycle, and one kill next cycle (kind of unlikely given how many people have protection). We're down to four. If there are seven elims, we lose instantly. If there aren't, we still have a chance. Lahilt, I roleclaimed to the rusting thread. Everyone knows my role. I'll do some RP next, followed by some analysis and a vote when I have time. edit; missed Ash's explanation.