DracostarA

• Looking at the blurb about Kaladin's 'changing role' among the Radiants, I think someone might have surpassed him in Oaths as a Windrunner which would naturally add to his depression (my money's on Teft).

• Much more crackpot theory 

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  Three of sixteen ruled, but now the Broken One reigns.

  This quote isn't referring to the Shards, but Shallan herself. She has three main personalities (Shallan, Veil, Radiant) and at the start of the series Shallan was entirely in charge. She's been called 'broken' by herself and various others, and we know she's regressed and suppressed a lot of her past, so these personas may already have been there. The 16 personalities is a bit more reaching, but during the Battle of Thaylen at the end of Oathbringer, when Shallan Lightweaves Veil and Radiant she mentions other versions that were trying to split off too but she stops them, so there is an idea that there may be more of her, and 16 obviously is an important number in the Cosmere.

• Final theory I am adding before RoW - Restares is Kalak, because I can't think of anyone else it could fit.

I'm pretty sure the more hyphens an Unmade has, the more intelligence it has. Hence why Ba-Ado-Mishram is the 'highprincess' while Ashertmarn et al are all very basic.

Let me know if this has been discussed before, but I have been thinking about Voidspren compared to Radiantspren.

With Radiantspren, namely using Syl as an example, as their Radiant progresses with their Oaths their Spren gains more of a presence in the Physical Realm, and this can be shown by Syl becoming less childish and Windspren-like and gaining the ability for higher level thought as well as regaining a stronger memory of her past.

However, with the Voidspren we've seen, like Ulim and Yixli, there does not appear to be a particular bond with any individual, and yet they seem to have a very strong Physical presence, i.e. Ulim knew enough to help Venli regain some of the old forms of the Listeners.

I can think perhaps this Connection to the Physical Realm may be provided by Odium or Ba-Ado-Mishram directly, but there might be something different going on.

Does anyone have any speculation as to why this difference is?

So, like most people I believe Shalash will be the Dustbringer and Taln will be the Stoneward for the Stormlight Archives.

But I was wondering, what if it were the other way round?

I don't think it would be reaching too far to imagine the two heralds reversed:

• Shalash, having met Taln, and seeing what he has put himself through, devoting herself to the ideals that he held for 4500 years, and becoming a Stoneward instead of him.
• Taln, having spent so much time in Damnation, losing his sanity and becoming more vengeful when he gains true lucidity and leaning towards the Dustbringer ideals.

Now, I think realistically it will be the other way around, but I just wanted to float this idea, especially since Brandon is an expert in creating twists the reader do not expect.

8 hours ago, Criggleworth said:

2. Lerasium creates turbo charged Connection to Shards. By itself, it gives Connection to Preservation which grants allomancy. When alloyed with atium, it grants feruchemy. Now, if that second part is true, it would mean that lerasium alloyed with other god metals would give someone a metallic art that is half Preservation and half that other Shard, essentially allowing for 16 different metallic arts.

This WoB explicitly supports what you're saying here:

Stormlightning

If Hoid was to get his hands on "bavadinium," could he alloy it with lerasium and get Sand Mastery?

Brandon Sanderson

This is theoretically possible.

Here is a relevant WoB he answered recently regarding Tearim in the Stormlight Archives.

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/360/#e10884

5 hours ago, Kalinovsky said:

I think it might be Fortune?

I think it's that whoever made the chart (Spook I think) didn't know about Fortune, and it's very hard to prove that you've stolen someone else's luck/destiny/future.

1 hour ago, Yata said:

Scadrial was made by both Ruin and Preservation in the same amount, but much more, there is no sense in choosing the 16 (or any other specific number) from Preservation. Whatever the number is, Pres had only to enforce it in the natural pattern to show a sign of design (what he did after all)... He didn't require the 16 specifically

True, but I was of the opinion that since Preservation had a hand in creating Scadrial, and its number was 16 (same as the number of Shards), that it was somewhat influenced by Preservation to be a number which was already significant in the cosmere, as opposed to any other random number.

@Calderis I would argue it's a mix of both planet and Shard, considering the whole Rosharan system is 10-centric bar Braize, when the only real difference is Odium residing on Braize. Considering Scadrial being 16-centric and it being created by Preservation, who specifically chose 16 as a number to help people discover the Atium mistings, I do think it can be dependent on both.

On the topic of the thread, I am convinced the number 3 is very important to Roshar and its system - 3 Bondsmith spren, 3 inhabited planets, 3 moons, 3 Horneater Gods, and to a lesser extent the 3 Shards in the system.

@Spoolofwhool true, but then that also calls into question everything Honor said at that time. I, personally, think the Unmade only came into being after humans migrated to Roshar but I don't think we have sufficient information to speculate here definitively.

Yeah  I agree with @Calderis so my timeline of the magic on Roshar (in relation to humans) would be:

1. Dawnshards, leftover 'surges' from Ashyn are the only remnants of magic.
2. Heralds are given Honorblades and can access their surges.
3. Spren (i.e. honorspren, cultivationspren etc. like we see today) mimic these powers and provide Surgebinding to humans.
4. Ishar realises that humans need structure and organisation to limit the use of these powers so they won't be reckless with them, and founds the Knights Radiant.

However, @Blightsong I think this is a completely separate issue to your main theory, with which I agree.

@Spoolofwhool Since Odium arrived in the Rosharan system that theory is plausible within the timeline, but Honor also assigned responsibility of Ashyn's destruction to humans, which I doubt he would if he was aware Odium had influence on Ashyn.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in one of Dalinar's visions Nohadon said something akin to 'Not all spren are as discerning as honorspren'. In that vision, it was confirmed that surgebinders existed and also that there was no formal organisation (Knights Radiant). So I don't see any reason why surgebinding could not have existed with the same types of spren, just without formal structure within each Order.

6 hours ago, animalia said:

Whoever came up with this idea doesn’t understand how Cultivating things works. Remember when Cultivation mentioned “pruning” Dalinar’s memories. Do you know what pruning is? Is basically removing growth you don’t want. Cultivaion Does BOTH death AND Growth. That’s how cultivation works. For example, you burn dead grass so that’s the ashes can as fertilizer for  new growth. Cultivation doesn’t NEED to be part of a change cycle because that’s how her whole intent works to begin with.

 The only question is would she want to stay as cultivation or Cultivate her intent to something else. If it changes to something else my guess would be Hope, but that assumes it needs to change.

It doesn't matter HOW it happens, but it seems clear that Cultivation is capable of making something more from building blocks, and developing and advancing things from a basic level. Even if this involves 'pruning' and selective growth, it still works counter to Ruin. As @Fanghur Rahl mentioned, even Ruin was willing to create first before decaying so that he had something to destroy. If a 'pruning' is needed for the best growth, there is no reason Cultivation shouldn't do it and it still fulfils her intent of enabling the progression she wants.

4 hours ago, animalia said:

What’s this about a change trinity?

I'm assuming they mean Cultivation + Preservation + Ruin forms the full cycle of change. Growth, followed by stagnation, followed by decay. Having all three Shards might give Sazed the capacity to actually do things with his power.

I would argue that the reason seeing the future is of Odium instead of Cultivation, although Surgebinding is a combination of Cultivation and Honor's Investiture, is simply based on perception.

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Questioner

Are those laws of physics consistent throughout the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, to an extent. You would consider, like - it's kind of weird because I based them on the idea of the fundamental forces, but this is kind of like a human construction. You could say that physics is pure and natural, but we're still putting things in boxes. And the scientists on Roshar would, for instance, consider being able to travel between the Cognitive and Physical Realms as a force, the thing that pulls people back and forth between that, as a fundamental force. I don't know if it would fit our definition of a fundamental force.

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Brandon Sanderson

Oh, is the constant the same? Yes, the constant would be the same. The big difference is, what I am tweaking to the fundamental forces is, I imagine on Roshar that there are more fundamental forces. Which is totally breaking the laws of physics, right? But [in] magic there are more than four. I've broken them up into, at least, what their scientists have decided. So. But yes.

I think that because scientists on Roshar, be they the early Dawnsingers or Humans, considered Illumination and Progression fundamental forces and did not consider future sight as one, it was not included in the mechanics of Surgebinding.

I do think Cultivation has better future sight than Odium, evidenced by Dalinar, but on Roshar I think only Voidbinding and the Old Magic can (from what we've seen) view what is to come.

I don't believe so. The only reference to him was amongst Jasnah's correspondence to her scholar colleagues and that was all for this book.

I don't really have any evidence to back this up, but I believe Preservation and Honor belong to the 'non-italicised passion' group. What we saw of Leras in Secret History didn't seem particularly passionate, especially compared to Ati, and Honor's strict focus on the keeping of bonds and oaths belies a rigidity that imo leaves little room for passion.

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Let's say you were Autonomy, and you have--through expanding and exploring your understanding--found a gathering of investiture that has always been there, you always knew about, but still didn't actually recognize until the moment you considered and explored it. (Because even though your power is infinite, accessing and using that infinity is beyond your reach.) Were you "invested" there? No, no more than you're invested on Roshar, where parts of what were Adonalsium still exist that are associated with you (in the very fabric of mater and existence.) But suddenly, you have a chance to tweak, influence, and do things that were always possible, but which you never could do because you knew, but didn't know, at the same time.

So I just came across this segment from a fairly long WoB regarding Autonomy's influence relating to Patji. The full WoB is here https://wob.coppermind.net/events/315-general-reddit-2018/#e9385 but the gist is (I think) Autonomy found some residual Adonalsium Investiture on First of the Sun and influenced it to align with her own intent and that is what the 'avatar' is in this case. However, in that WoB Brandon also mentions that saying too much about Patji would give things away.

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But Autonomy's relationships with entities like this (not sure entity is the right word, even) is complex.

This section of the WoB however does seem to confirm these avatars are not Splinters, at least not as we have come to know them and we probably don't have sufficient information to make too educated a guess here.

I'm not sure if this helps or hurts anyone's theories but just thought it would be relevant to the discussion!

@Calderis Do you believe then that there can/will be conflict between these avatars in your theory? If so could one access more of Autonomy's Investiture i.e. if they have existed for longer and are more experienced, or do you think they are all equivalent in strength?

Just to clarify, what separates that from a Splinter? If the Splinter is made of the same Investiture of the Shard but has independent thought, is it not a distinct Cognitive entity with a shared Spiritual aspect with the Shard?

So you believe they are just different manifestations of Autonomy in the Physical Realm, just in different locations but with the same mind? So similar to how Odium is bound to Braize but can still manifest on Roshar, just with more than one manifestation? You might have something here as Brandon said 'Patji is a Shard' IIRC and that is notably different from it being a Splinter.

See, I could go either way regarding the level of control Bavadin would have. I believe there will be a Prime, and it is Bavadin in the Taldain system. I'm curious to how the conflict would work, as we know Sja-Anat seemingly wants to betray Odium and he doesn't appear to know, but we don't know if he is capable of destroying/changing her if he found out. However, I also believe that would specifically go against the intent of Bavadin's Shard - in destroying/revoking her avatars, she would be punishing them for disagreeing with her, so even if she were capable of it, I think that she would be unable to due to the restrictions set upon her by the Autonomy Shard.

This is not so much a theory as it is a plausible idea.

Just how autonomous do you think Autonomy's avatars are? It is implied they are Splinters of the Shard on different planets, but I was wondering if they are all aligned with Bavadin's goals, or (by nature of the Shard) are given true free will, might they come into conflict with each other? I think it would be fun to see different avatars on opposing sides, and maybe even have avatars rebel against Bavadin herself. Thoughts?

@Quantus IIRC there are floating cities and people living on Ashyn after the migration to Roshar, and I believe The Silence Divine exists, at the very least, after humans moved to Roshar. In the Arcanum Unbounded essay Khriss mentions people living in small pockets on Ashyn while also mentioning Surgebinding humans on Roshar, Odium on Braize, and the death of Honor - so I believe the disease based magic exists contemporary to the Stormlight Archive.