Argel

There may have been some kind of fighting going on though: Agree though that the OP theory does not give us a good motive.

I recall Brandon mentioning the dwarf galaxy, but not a very small universe. However, I do not think he has any plans on expanding out beyond the Cosmere's dwarf galaxy, so it's probably a moot point. But I would expect others could have their own version of the cosmere.

Thanks Chaos!! No worries -- caught and fixed quickly enough!!

If left to just Brandon, then yes. But if he collaborated with the rest of his team, there could be something to it. I mean, if you're going to go crazy with stuff like that, the world with no axial tilt based on a Julia Set sounds like a good place to do it on. It's also the kind of details that fit in well in an epic fantasy series (i.e. die-hard fans that may eventually catch it several years into the series).

He modified the Skaa to be hardier to survive the harsher conditions the volcanic ash was causing. So definitely some direct genetic modifications. May not be relevant, tough even "breeding" taints the data. Just saying if you want to talk about perks, Mistborn Era2 probably works better since Sazed is not continuing to manipulate things.

Note that any order could have used at least the partial-participation theory. That happens to support the Stoneward+Shin theories, but is there any thing else that would rule it out? Regarding the Stonewards, the "less care" quote below could fit the Stoneward+Shin theories. Maybe not the best fit, but there was a less savory side to them that should not be overlooked. Regarding "at the expense of the others".... If this remaining order lied about participating and then betrayed the other orders to e.g. the two thousand, then that could be enough to fit the style of prose being used.

That was just my excuse for heavily skimming through it. By all means, write away. You're not even close to topping maxal when it comes to length. Doesn't the TLR's manipulation of things complicate things though? For example, like reducing (eliminating) the chance to become a mistborn for the skaa? It complicatges any era 1 discussions a bit. That lines up with my thinking as well (capacity).

It could also explain why Nalan is so interested in taking the Shin leadership out.

Also, when I edit a post and click on the edit/save button, I get a pop-up warning that this post could not be updated, with some possible reasons such as it's been too long. However, the post is updated. I'm guessing these issues could be related. Edit: And thanks for looking into this, and good luck! Hopefully an easy, quick fix!!

Ditto on your profile as well. Sounds like it's broken for everyone or a subset of users.

Anyone else unable to access their respective profile? Using Chrome. URL when I get the error is: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/profile/18658-argel/ The www.17thshard.com page isn’t working www.17thshard.com is currently unable to handle this request. HTTP ERROR 500

@Argent, I just did a massive rewrite that I hope is a big improvement!! Thanks for the feedback!! What about the teachings about the KRs abandoning everyone? If the remaining order worked that into the religion... Also, someone @cometaryorbit just posted a theory (well, an idea) that that the Recreance weakened Honor, making it easier for Odium to kill him.

This thread is becoming tl;dr material. Anyway, do we have any proof that the more damaged your spirit-web is the more powerful you can become? That seemed to be an implication of some of the posts on page 2, which struck me as odd. For example, I know Elend cheated by being given the bead of Lerasium, but that still doesn't change that he had more raw power than Vin. I agree with Argent to a certain extent -- the theories seem to focus on the outcome too much. Also, the idea that having more powers means the perks would just not be developed doesn't really hold up. For example, if Shallan had a ridiculous number of powers, the implication is that she would never become an artist, and that's why her mnemonic abilities would never develop. Basically, in that theory, the perks are there but just never developed, but there should be exceptions for that. Also, Brandon seems to suggest that e.g. if the end-of-WoR Shallan burned a Lerasium bead she would lose her heavily developed mnemonic perk at that point. If so, then I do not think having more powers just means you never developed the perks -- i.e. the perks are no longer there, not just under-utilized. That feels like a purity, quality, and/or capacity type scenario.

It thought blood was mentioned in the context of the spiritual connection -- that is, that blood has a much stronger spiritual connection, so may just make it much easier but is not actually required (specifically, that a spiritual connection is what is actually required).

Continuity is not his strongest suit, which is is why he has e.g. Peter on staff. I thought the answer above was him just not fully committing because he needed to check his notes, the timeline, etc. That does seem to suggest they happened close in time to each other, which could support cometaryorbit's theory that the Recreance weakened Honor. It's a loose replacement for LOL (Laughing Out Loud). http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/xd

As others have mentioned, we do know. We also know that Vasher had been there before creating Nightblood (there was a fairly recent -- maybe this year -- WoB on it). I thought Brandon mentioned Vasher was on Roshar for either Nightblood, because Stormlight is much easier to obtain than breaths, or both. Though those could have been generic/avoid spoilers type answers. That would certainly be interesting! If we are really lucky, Arcanum Unbounded will have some new hints in it as to the current status of Nalthis, Taldain, etc.

Cleaned up version: We know one order of KRs did not betray their oaths, concealing that with great subterfuge. We see two orders (Windrunners and Stonewards) in Dalinar's vision of the Recreance When trying to answer the question of which order is was, point 2 is used rule those two orders out. But is that valid? Or could the "great subterfuge" be that e.g. the Stonewards either faked their participation or they had most of their members participate to conceal that a small number did not? This has come up in a few threads now, but more as a comment/idea. I decided to start this thread to discuss how viable one or both are. Note that these could apply to the other orders as well, but the obvious interest is the Stonewards. Pros to faking participation in the Recreance: Still have the entire team together. Cons to faking participation in the Recreance: Requires some impressive illusions, which suggests the Lightweavers are most likely able to pull this off. But we have no reason to suspect them, and a lot of recent theories favor linking the Stormwards with the Shin. That's a big secret to keep, especially over time. And a lot of people to keep that secret. Shouldn't something have worked its way into the history books? Or should Honor have taken notice? It seems like they would need to go to ground or come up with a mass cover. How the heck do you keep the spren from blabbing? If every order participated with at least one other order: Would the "faking-their-death" spren really want to be anywhere near a bunch of their spren actually dying? And even if they thought they could tough it out, could they really? Pros to actually participating in the Recreance: In theory much easier to keep a secret. The Stonewards+Shin tie-in makes a lot of sense thematically, and this makes that possible. Moreso if only 8 remained as part of the order. It could explain certain views the Shin have (with such a high price to pay, they may abhor violence -- or that was part of the cover, that may have over time become a new adopted philosophy. ) and why they have the honorblades. Cons to actually participating in the Recreance: Wow, that's a major sacrifice if you don't actually agree with it. ??? Some random thoughts/questions: How likely would any non-bonded spren notice the subterfuge? Would Honor notice? And if so, why not mention the order in the visions? Because he could not predict what state they would be in? Still, why not even throw in a quick line about trying to contact the this order? Was he in on the subterfuge? The Stormfather hasn't had a chance to mention it yet? When was Vorin religoen and the Ardents formed? In the "faking participation" scenario, that could be one way to cover up what happened, but I thought both predated the Recreance? Though that may not stop a mass influx of ardents (and they may be able to wipe that from the history books). Is there any other group or city that they could have gone to or formed? How long have the Shin been around (or their leaders)? I am particularly interested in ways that the subterfuge may have been noticed. For example, would it be easier from Shadesmar? If Honor, Cultivation, or Odium noticed, would they leave us any hints (and what may those be)?

Good grief people!! How many times do I have to throw this suggestion out there. Quoting from the same thread mentioned above:

I think they have to be more invested, or e.g. Atium would not make a dent in Ruin's power, which was the real reason it was created (to take power from Ruin and hide it from him).

If he was killed and shattered in the PR, then I would assume yes. If killed and shattered in the CR, then it could be either. One interesting thought -- if Hoid is trying to reassable Adonslsium, then does that mean Adonalsium has a Cognitive Shadow e.g. on Yolen? Or maybe Hoid is just trying to reassemble the power. Though Frost hints that Adonalsium had a plan. Edit: One potential problem with that is that Frost is on Yolen. So if Adonalsium is a CS, you would think Frost could talk to it. Unless the CR there is really screwed up.

Actually 18, since we know Hoid and Frost were also involved in the conspiracy, which makes it even more complicated.

Overall, I agree with that, but this is an official Brandon website and we know he wants most of these series to be able to stand on there own, especially Stormlight Archives. What we probably need is a Stormlight Archives + Cosmere spoiler forum, or move posts with Cosmere spoilers in SA to CT. Either way though, the current spoiler policy has not been enforced well as of late. Edit: I see Voidus has moved some threads to CT!! Mega thanks and that's a great reminder!! Two birds with one stone!!

I always assumed it was for important people (officers, metalborn, etc.).

FWIW, dragons are part of the mythology of Nalthis. Well, let's say they know about dragons in a mythological way, but not necessarily e.g. worshiping dragons. It's the only book with the word "dragon" in it, and we have a WoB that it's not due to Nalthis to Englidh translation. That suggests Edgli (Endownment) might be a dragon. Also, there was magic pre-shattering, so not all of the power was concentrated in Adonalsium. Most presumably was, but there had to be enough left to pull the shattering off.

Wax's insanely good aim and how good Wayne is at blending in -- both of those seem like good candidates for perks. Wayne's in particular reminds me of Shallan's perfect memory -- he just needs to hear someone speak a sentence or two and he's good to go without even hearing every possible phonetic sound or regiona/sub-regional dialects/phrasing (e.g. "Y'all" and "Youings" from the American South).