Shadowfax

This made my day xD

I still haven't been able to finish this stupid prologue. I've been sitting at the same word count for 11 days. I'll wait another week to see if I can add to it and if not I'll submit as-is for suggestions. So, I won't submit this week either. <grumbles about writer's block>

My writing time got cut into and I didn't get finished so I can't post today.

Oh no, your response and explanation makes total sense to me! I didn't catch on to the build-up of the Snatcher because I was around for the chapter one read, so the build up didn't happen then either (I think you know what I mean?). Now that I understand what you're trying to do building it up, then I agree, the prologue would be just as harmful as the chapter one you're cutting and for basically the same reason xD

After reading your responses to us, I think I have a suggestion. I'm probably stepping over all kinds of bounds but it popped into my head, so I'm going to type it up here as I think it would give you some wiggle room in these chapters (for adding stuff) and help with overall tension and set up the story to be about Roamwald (which I DO love this as a book title). To make some room in word count for added tension and secription in these chapters, you could cut a lot of the story Jane tells Jennie (bear with me here!). You could spend time showing us Jane's emotions and Jennie's reactions and prodding for information. Where do readers get the whole story from them? Well, if you're cutting chapter 1, you could give us a short prologue set years and years before, of an event in Jennie's family's past... with people being Snatched... O.O! It's probably too scary for MG reading, but this thought did pop into my mind. I love prologues because they tell us "hey this has a huge impact on the plot, so bear with this book's first chapters while we work up to it". It would also make the scene with Jennie and Roamwald way more suspenseful. I don't see this actually happening, and like I said I probably overstepped some bounds even posting this, but it was a thought and I wrote it down. I am eagerly waiting the next submissions. Usually I won't read past chapter 2 or 3 in a book unless I plan on finishing it; I'm super picky about what I spend my time reading. You've gotten me to chapter 9, so I'm in it for the long haul if you're okay with putting up with my picky-pants comments xD

Uh, I also thought it was daylight and until Robinski pointed this out, never realized it was supposed to be nighttime. Out in the woods/on the ice floe she was seeing everything so clearly that it never occurred to me it was dark.

That's sweet of you, but you're really on a roll and I'd hate to interrupt it!

Comments as I read: “Jennie was able to busy herself” – Jennie busied herself. Or something else a little less passive. “as soon as food hit their plates t, but” – extra t in there “Shut pan already.” – this seems oddly out of place. We haven’t seen it used before but we’ve seen other sayings that resemble this and so this feels like it isn’t part of the dialect we’ve seen previously. “I haven’t the foggiest.” – While this isn’t an entirely contemporary phrase, it feels like it is in this setting you’ve created. At least to me it does. It throws me a bit from the narrative and sent me off to look up the phrase and time frame for it. I'm probably being picky lol But, it stuck at me, so I commented. As a side note, it feels like the dialect has all but disappeared as soon as they set down to have dinner with their more affluent family members. I can’t tell if they’re trying to fit in better, trying to impress, or what, but now everyone is speaking the same and so it’s harder to tell there’s a socio-economic difference between these family units. “These old bones just don’t bend right anymore,” – Because bones don’t bend. Perhaps a statement about her joints? “Jane said and linked her arm with Jennie’s” – did I miss a description of the height of these two? Jennie is 10 and Jane is full grown. I’m 5’2” and still have trouble linking arms with people taller than me and walking in unison with them, so this is hard for me to picture. “But Jane steered them uphill” – don’t need the “but” I’m having a very difficult time all of a sudden picturing Jane as an old, frail woman. Jennie is only 10, but was old enough to retain memories of burying her grandfather in 1874. She should have been 5 or 6 for that, 4 if you really sell her memory-making capabilities (and they would need to be REALLY sold). He was 38 when he died, which means early 30s when Jennie was born. Jane’s older brother was only 8 years older than Alfred, so at earliest Jane was born in 1829 and it’s probably now around 1880 which makes her ~51 (younger if there’s larger than a one year gap between her and her brother). For me, 51 is hardly a frail old woman, so if she is really this young, perhaps we can have some context for why she’s so old and frail looking? “fiancé” – this is the male version. Females get an extra e at the end. “everyone had eaten well again at supper, too.” – it wasn’t supper they ate at Jane’s house? <confused> “None of the snares were too far or too deep into the woods. The jump traps were, but she decided not to go that far.” Instead of telling us where things are not, it’s easier just to tell us where they are. “a tulip tree” – I had to actually look this up. Woo, I learned something new I literally tried to picture a tree with tulips hanging off it xD I am curious how Jennie knows where the traps are supposed to be. Has her father taken her with him before? Somehow, I don’t see that happening, as he and Leon seem to try to keep her safe at home. “The storm wouldn’t have changed the creek’s position, but it was deeper into the woods than she wanted to go.” – huh? Of course a storm can’t change a creek’s position, but what does that have to do with how deep into the woods it was? These 2 halves of the sentence don’t go well together and you established earlier Jennie didn’t want to go deep into the woods. “It was too rhythmic to be an accidental sound of the forest.” – forests have a lot of animals and animals are attuned to the rhythms of nature. Many insects have rhythmic sounds. It makes more sense for her to know that animals hibernate and borrow and that the sound doesn’t match animals known to her. “She tried moving her head to look back over her shoulder.” – did she succeed? Did it move the ice more or not? “She twisted her head and saw the huge hands were only a foot away now and they had stopped moving. They were so close that all she had to do was reach sideways and she’d reach them.” – You’re not going to convince me a 10 year old girl has a 12-inch reach while lying still, prone and half frozen. Also, are the hands 12 inches from the ice or her body? It’s unclear, which is what makes this hard to believe she could reach the hands. “touched the palm” & “felt a very strong, if very slow, pulse” – nice. You’ve told me Snatcher physiology is different from human physiology, adding depth to the fantasy element. “The pupils flashed wide in surprise followed by two quick blinks.” – this is so expressive, I can feel the conversation happening. “Jennie Elisabeth Fullers, Born: 1873” – Nope. She was not a year old and making memories of a funeral that she would retain 9 years later with any clarity. We studied this a bit in my Early Childhood Development class (strange choice for a university elective, but it was fun lol). This is a good link for information regarding that: http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20110511/when-do-kids-form-their-first-memories ““Ach, bitte, please” – uh, the Snatchers speak German? I’m not sure if this confuses me, or makes me want to know why they speak German and how they learned English. ““You could call me Roamwald if you liked.”” – This disappointed me actually. For the last 8 chapters I’ve gone on the notion that Roamwald was the world and this was Jennie’s story about living in this world. Now we have a story named for a character we know nothing about but myths and legends and a main character with an as-yet tenuous connection to the name of the book. I’m not saying it’s bad, just that when I read this line I felt something akin to disappointment, in that now my brain is like, “I’ve just spent 8 chapters with Jennie and it’s not even her book. Why do I care about Jennie?” Questions like this are ok, so don’t take me wrong. I didn’t comment last week cause I was on the road and settling in, but I actually missed Leon in these past few chapters. For me, he’s the only adult with any lick of sense in him. I have a hard time picturing him as a bad guy- more he’s the family member that everyone else paints as a bad guy and they’re all hell-bent on making me think their way. Helene… I don’t believe in spanking children, but man I want to put that brat over my knee xD There are a lot of family dynamics going on and it gets a little overwhelming, but as a reader I accept them because I assume these characters will all have roles to play. So, I hope this is the case. The descriptions are good and strong, as in previous chapters, in regards to character interaction, etc. The setting is still very “fill-in-the-blanks” in some places. It reads as if you’re more comfortable describing the outdoors than anything indoors, so when we go through a door, we lose some of that descriptive flavor. Based on the first chapter, I had already assumed Jennie would be rescued (once we saw her on the ice floe) and returned home by the Snatcher; none of this was shocking, a twist, or really changed anything I already had in my mind about the story. It would have more impact if either the first chapter was removed, or if it had a decidedly more sinister ambience. Chapter 1 for me was wistful, not frightening, and therefore the impact of seeing Jennie rescued by the Snatcher was non-existent. There was amazing tension when she was trapped on sinking ice, I truly felt scared for her, but as soon as the loud steps and strange sounds came, the tension was gone and even Jennie’s fear couldn’t replace it for me, since, as a reader having read chapter one, I knew she was fine. I’m still in the keep reading boat and I can’t wait till your next submission. There are enough story questions for me to keep reading at this point and most of my read-through comments are just things that popped out at me and stuck with me.

I need to figure out how to update my sig line properly. I mean, I know how to, technically, but I want it to look and feel right in displaying my membership. <puts on thinking cap>

It's been a few weeks, but I'm hard at work on my prologue and was hoping to have it ready for the 18th. If it's full though, can I reserve a spot for the week after?

Well, we made it to Missouri! 5 days of driving, hauling a trailer and copped up in a small car with 2 cats >.< BUT WE MADE IT! Got in last night, finally got my laptop set up again and so I hope to start putting together a proper prologue and chapter one to my book. I've ha da lot of time to think over everyone's comments and "write" in my head as a drove, so I'm super excited and really nervous at the same time.

I thought the Red Rip was Taln's Scar (Roshar) or am I confusing it with something else?

I'm logged in on my phone! We're driving through Wyoming now and it's covered in snow and only 28 degrees F. Wyoming fails at recognizing springtime in the states.

Heyas folks!!! I know I've been quiet but we've been so busy lol. We got hung up on a weather delay and it's been hectic as all get out. We are picking up and packing the trailer today and starting our drive tomorrow. Things... Marci!!!! Noooooooo ;_; I'm gonna miss you and I hope it's nothing terrible and sad. Killing characters... it's like this. You need to answer important questions. How many characters do I have, and how many do I need? If have > need, feel free to trim. But you also need to ask yourself, why. Death must serve a purpose. Does the death: further plot development? Further a (different) character's development? Provide *desperately* needed tension/emotional impact? If you can't say yes to any of those, don't kill the character. And if it's the third one, also ask yourself why the story is desperately lacking in tension, because that's an issue all on its own. On a personal note, as much as I hate seeing some of those characters go, I think Martin's blatant killing of them is genuine and realistic. Its a continent-wide warzone full of ambition... people will die left and right. He has built an enormous amount of tension in his books simply by declaring that no one is safe. Character death is a theme, he has to keep it up to stay true to that thematic element. Not every book could get away with it like he does however. As for character resurrection... it's not a ploy I enjoy, but it can be done if you follow some basic rules. 1. Foreshadow the ever loving heck out of how it would be possible. If it isn't built up, readers will get hit from left field with something miraculous, not understand it, or worse, be left with a chunk of exposition in the narrative slowing the pacing. 2. Use it sparingly. If your characters can come back any time, there will be no tension. The readers will not care if your characters are in danger, there will be threat to their lives. 3. Never ressurect a character simply because you're afraid to kill it in the first place. If youve established they need to die, kill them. If they're critical to later plot, then ask: can any other character fill this role? If yes, kill them and move the plot to a different character's arc. If no, find another way. A fake death is fine if you can pull it off. Or mount some tension and give the character a reason to disappear for a while. Sorry, got into lecture mode xD Also, I'll respond to my critiques you guys left when I have a bit of extra time. I appreciate them and they're super helpful. I have a very good idea of how I can start a prologue and chapter one of my book. Literally all I had written were those scenes and a bazillion pages of world-building notes. Plus my rough outlines. So, thank you. I'm off to go move now! *waves*

Children that young were not squires, but held the title of Page. Men were unable to be knighted before the age of 21 (similar to inheritance laws). They did not squire until puberty.

Thanks for the critiques. Multiquote doesn't like to work on my web browser so I'm going to try to respond and still make sense :/ When I write, I have to turn off the editing part of my brain or I will sit and over-edit as I go and never actually write anything. So, yes, my words, tenses, etc end up a jumbled mess. No worries, this will all be fixed when I actually write things out properly. Stream of consciousness writing is dirty xD This is not Earth or an alternate Earth, but a completely different planet. There's actually a lot of worldbuilding going on, so I stuck a lot of it into those first few scenes to see how people reacted to the elements. I've gotten feedback that tells me what I needed to know. There is a lot of very important backstory, history, etc that is extremely important to the book (and it's not about heart strings, it's about me knowing what my plot is and what I need in the book to make the ending work/make sense). With the feedback I've gotten, I think I've determined how the introduction of those elements will go over better with readers. And, I haven't spent much time in the Midwest, so I had no idea "Alls I know" was dialect there. I will have to change that in my book. Thanks for pointing it out. In the previous section I apparently gave Tora Jace's dialect and that was an oversight. I will fix that as well. The Bear and the Child is a dream sequence (which is hard to tell with it being so out of context), so the bear is not real. There are no intelligent animals in the world. I don't write out numbers until much later drafts. It's easier for my eyes to see numerical values, and it's faster/easier for me to use those so I can compare my writing to my notes to make sure I have my facts straight. All I can do is ask that the group put up with that for me, and understand I do know how to do it correctly and that this is a conscious choice on ,my part to make the earlier drafts easier for me to fact-check. What really surprised me the most was how everyone latched on to those early scenes on the island. Those are throwaway scenes meant to set up the backstory, so obviously I gave them too much screen time. I don't want them to end up being promises I made to readers. The real story begins with Tora's excavation in the centrelands. I've taken what people have liked and disliked about those early island scenes and I think I know how to present what I need to without the flood of exposition or making false promises. Obviously, if you read my notes, I had my doubts about them anyway, as far as how stagnant they were, so this is okay. Tora, Jace and Isra are the main characters, though we mostly follow Jace and Tora. We will see quite a bit of the world, so there will be descriptive world-building involved. Tora is also a scholar of sorts, what would be, in our time, an archaeologist, so her sections will reflect that. Jace is more faith based and not as educated as his sister is, and that reflects in his sections. Isra, now she isn't like the other two at all... Also, sorry for my delay in responding. We pick up our U-Haul on Friday and we've been scrambling to do all the last minute things. I'll be quite busy until we get settled in Missouri.

Yup, it's gone through no revisions yet. I figured once I knew which parts to build on and which to steer away from, then I could clean up the keepers. I'm a certified English teacher, so I'm not too worried about grammar and spelling editing. It's usually the last thing I do, because I'm a terrible typist xD A lot of the points you made, I also made in my own notes lol. Especially the boring history part and the über long exposition disguised as dialogue. You're right, we are jumping around a planet. The first scenes mostly set up a back story, Tora, Jace and Isra are the main PoV characters and the ones we would be following. I'm glad you picked up on the change of relationship between Tora and Jace. This scene would actually be a bit further along the book than the rest of them and I haven't decided about that street performer yet. Overall since this is, like you said, draft zero (literally some of this was stream of consciousness writing) anything is subject to change, even names or events. I submitted to get a feel for which parts people seemed most drawn to. I'm a history major; I've spent so many years writing dry papers that explain, that I really wanted this "pre-submit" to see if I had anything to work with. I'm much more interested in if anyone had a strong reaction to anything, and if so what, than I am about word choice, spelling, grammar, etc. Thank you for answering the questions from my post. That super helped, and I'm starting to see a starting point for a first chapter. I also had my boyfriend read and critique, and boy... let's just say he really thought the school scene, "is so cliché. It's some kid whining cause she's taken to school for the first time. Seriously?" When he said it to me like that it basically lost all emotional impact for me (it has some for me since I know the back story there). Anyway, all the answers to my questions I get really help narrow down my immediate chapter 1 goals. Much appreciated!

“but as he was working higher up the mountain in the cover of night” The fireflies in the next half of sentence tell us it’s night time, and so this is a little unnecessary. Cutting this would also make this section a little less wordy. Also, “little fireflies of light” sounds awkward. A possible suggestion, drop the “of light” here and add the words “lights” after flickering. There are of course other ways, this is just a suggestion. “The closest he could come to the town itself without being seen was not very close. He stood at the edge of the forest hidden amongst the trees. Luckily, he didn’t have to get too close to town to see any houses” There is a lot of the word “close” in here. It’s a large sentence, and a bit unwieldy. I had to read it a few times to really picture it properly. Is the character trying to get close or trying to not get too close? It isn’t very clear. “Jenni Fullers”… So the naming. Is this an alternate type Earth? The descriptions, setting, and language suggest a pioneering era of humanity, possibly late 1870s-1890s. “Jenni” was not a name then. Jennifer didn’t become a well used girls name until the 1920s and even then it didn’t rise in popularity until the 1980s. This clashes with the more traditional names of May and Hanna. Jon is a derivative of Jonathan with is a long derivation of the name Nathan. Nathan and Hanna are both names from the Christian Bible (as is Daniel –baby Dan-). May is a name used from a Roman calendar and the month was named after a Roman goddess. Will is a form of William which is Germanic in origin. So you essentially have a family built of names from many different origins, which my brain rebels against in a pioneer type setting in a fantasy novel. The reason so many fantasy novelist create their own names and systems is to keep this from happening. However, if this IS simply Earth, but a bit different, then Hannah and May are fine, Jon is a bit of a stretch as that form of the name wasn’t used widely during that era and Jenni… just no. Especially not with an “i” which is a seriously modern adaptation. Sorry about the name lecture! But, naming is incredibly important to overall feeling and setting in books. Naming conventions are part of the worldbuilding and are part of what help readers submerse ourselves into a book. I was literally jarred every time I read Jenni’s name at how out of place it was. If this isn’t a version of Earth, then I’m even less likely to accept the names, as those names have very specific origins. Most people know these origins, as the names are very common. That being said, the language itself was done well, as was the dialogue. That’s one of the reasons some of the names just didn’t work for me. You are doing a good job of placing us in a certain time. But all the elements really should consistently work on keeping readers submerged into that time. Larkspur… the name of the goat. I understand naming the goat after a flower. The larkspur plant is native to Western Europe, the Mediterranean region and Asia. So in your version of this Earth-planet, are we in a Western Europe type zone? The language lends itself more towards American frontier. “Their valley was surrounded by mountains on every side” The setting was absolutely believable until you wrote this. I was raised and grew up in a valley surrounded on all sides by mountains (we were at about 6500 ft above sea level). Those areas are not rich farmlands, they are deserts. We got snow only occasionally, and it was never more than an inch or two even after the worst storm. We didn’t have forests on the inside of the mountain ranges. Where I grew up, it basically looked like the old west. We had dirt, sagebrush, Joshua trees, and tumbleweeds and if we spent a lot of money on water, some yards had grass. We could wear shorts in December and we had droughts in summer, but all our food came from the other side of the mountains. If you want to keep your setting, I suggest opening up the valley and taking part of the mountains away. This will let the rains and snow come, which will help develop farmland. May want to do some research to find out which direction the weather would come from so you know which mountains to deal with. All that said, I wish my mountain valley had been rich farmland and trees, maybe I wouldn’t have hated it so much “When she was younger, they had had a horse, too” It would make more sense if they’d had a second ox, as oxen are generally bought, trained, and used in pairs and are much more valuable on a farm for tilling and such than a horse would be. But, this is very minor and just my opinion. I do like that they had to trade it off for medicine though. Seems very era-specific and is a good detail. “Jenni knew him.” This sentence is unnecessary here, as she immediately uses his name in the next sentence. Chilblains… Nowhere near as severe as frostbite and in the weather they’re having, frostbite seems more likely. That said, it’s an interesting twist on the normal “oh it’s freezing, give them frostbite” cliché. That said chilblains usually occurs in non-freezing weather. Also, butter? Is this a country remedy popular in your world (and if so, please tell us this). As generally, you want to keep affected skin dry, avoid rapid changes in temperature and, in the pioneering type time era we seem to be in, iodine would be a more common treatment. If the use of butter is only to make the small amount of goat milk gathered up seem even smaller… it’s a bit of a stretch. It will take hours to make butter and by then, his skin will be warmed, dried and on its way to feeling better. It takes 1 to 2 weeks to be completely over chilblains but keeping the skin dry, moderately warm and away from temperature changes will pretty much do it fine. If you want a food-using remedy, there’s one from the medieval time period using eggs, fennel root and wine. “Jenni lifted the churn from its corner” Uhm, no. This girl is a half-starved 10 year old. She’s not lifting a churn that’s large enough to set in the corner of a room on the floor. Unless she has some magical power or strength or something, but we’ve had no indication that magic exists in this world. “The skin of his nose and cheeks shone bright yellowish-red” Chilblains actually leaves the skin a darker red to blue color. The “no one believes the drunk guy” cliché… This would have more impact if we had a better reason why Will doesn’t trust Jon. ​---- All that having been said… The Snatcher idea is interesting, and obviously is affecting Jenni and I’m curious how that plays out. I have a good feel of the time era, with the few inconsistencies I mentioned above. The descriptions are adequate. The chapters are short, and if you decided to add to them, I’d suggest adding a few more details of the world in general to give us a better feel of the rugged lifestyle, the fashion, or even general appearances of the characters. Hair color? Skin tone? Clothing style? It will help sell the characters, mood and setting even further. I could really enjoy this book. The story is good so far, but the world needs work to make it believable. For the specific questions in your mail: Does the foreshadowing in chapter one work for you? I didn’t catch on to any :/ Does the perspective change work for you from C1 to C2? (We don't see that character again for multiple chapters, but he does come back--it's not a one time thing--there are two protagonists, not one) As an avid reader of fantasy I am used to different chapters in different PoVs. This isn’t an issue. How does the pacing feel? The pacing is good. There is a constant movement forward with the action and plot. Did the chapter breaks feel well-spaced to you? The chapters are short, which is fine if you intend to keep that up throughout the book. Would you put the book down or keep going? I’m interested enough in the Snatcher to read a little more and see what the payoff is for that plotline. Does anything feel illogical to you? (see above notes) Does the language sufficiently convey the time period I'm trying to suggest? (Tell me what era you think it's imitating?) (again, answered above) Thank you for your submission and for trusting us with it. I look forward to reading more!

I believe usually you need the go-ahead from Silk. I think I assumed you had one in a PM since you submitted xD But, we only had 3 other submitters this week, so there probably won't be any complaints. I ended up falling asleep and taking a nap, so I'm just now going to do my re-read w/ commentary and then I'll post it. I read it the first time, as a single read-through and now I'll go ahead and pick out the bits that stand out in one way or another.

<sigh> On the plus side, I think I have an vague structure for the organization beginning to form. xD

As an avid Holmes fan, I refuse to recognize the existence of that 'show'.

I've read your submission and will wait an hour then read it again, but can you put up your critique thread so we can post our reviews?

From my email: This document contains all currently written scenes for City of Glass. They are in chronological order, but not necessarily are they in strict sequential order. There are many time gaps not indicated because these scenes come from various places within the books structure that is not yet written or finished. These scenes are unedited as of yet, they also have not gone through any sort of revision process. They are presented here as a query: Is the writing good? Are the characters good? How is the dialog and description? Does the world seem to work so far? Would this world and these characters be something you have an interest in reading about? Which scenes and characters stand out to you most? Any other thoughts? I plan to use those answers as my springboard to revitalize this project. Please, pick this apart. Be as critical as you can. You won’t hurt my feelings. Sometimes I look at some of these scenes and see rubbish. Others I hold near and dear to my heart. Just remember, these are not chapters, but individual scenes, each in their own bubble. They do not contain any spoilers, as all these scenes take place within what would be the first 10 chapters of the book, give or take. They also span (not counting the first one) a time-frame of at least 16 years, if not more. I’m still working on exact time-lines. Thank you for reading this and I appreciate any response at all, truly.