Nuatoma

51 minutes ago, Truthless of Shinovar said:

Hehehe... This sounds evil but I’m just waiting for Odium, Ambition, Ruin, and Dominion to combine and make Tyranny or the likes of it

I'm having trouble thinking how dominion and ruin would hold together haha.  It would seem dominion would want a land to rule over; where ruin would just want to destroy it.

Aside from that, I would think it'd be something like Annihilation or Cataclysm.

On 1/21/2020 at 0:01 PM, Karger said:

Both Skar and Drehy seem to have more or less simultaneously sworn oath 2 when given the task of protecting Gavinor.

This reminds me of one of my fears.  Just certain things that happen off screen.  I would very much like to know more of the story of how exactly Skar, Drehy and company managed to escape from Kholinar with a storming army of singers and fused surrounding the city!  I can imagine the stealthy trip down to the coast a little better, but the initial escape?  Excuse my language, but drynets, that must've been epic.  I know Brandon can't include all scenes in his book, but I like his imagination a lot better than mine on things like this.

I also fear I won't learn more about Rlain and the group that escaped/survived.  I fear how they may align themselves.  Due to the Skybreakers and certain human nations switching sides, I fear the resistance of Urithiru will face overwhelming odds and see them grow.

Edit:  So I was rereading a Shallan chapter 31 in WoR last night, where Shallan uses the curse drynets.  Tyn implies it is a bad term.  Another side note, the same chapter Tyn is using firemoss, which I never caught, but it stands out more now due to Tefts addicitons coming to light in Oathbringer.

So to be clear, education does not necessarily make one intelligent.  Intelligence is the ability to acquire and apply knowledge and skills.  In the books, most of the nobility can be educated, but may not be smart or have the drive enough to apply what they've learned.

Kaladin was educated on surgeon skills from his father.  He applied his knowledge on the battlefield.  He innovated ways to heal with limited resources.

Kaladin trained how to use a spear.  He made use of this skill by becoming an exceptional fighter.  Once he found out about his surgebinding abilities, he had the ability to incorporate those into his fighting.

Just because Kaladin may not have received an education in history, science, biology or be able to solve Fabrisan's Conundrum does not mean he is not intelligent.

40 minutes ago, ILuvHats said:

I honestly don't remember. I've known about the cosmere so long that I don't remember what it was like to not know about the cosmere. And it gets very muddy in my mind how much I caught onto before joining the shard.

I remember about when I started reading (spring 2014...I think), but I forget exactly when I found out about the cosmere.  I remember cousins and siblings reading the books, but forget if I found out they were connected through them or just searching, online.

However, I do remember just being bored at work and just coming on to read spoilers about the books I was currently reading.  That's probably how I found out about the importance of Wit/Hoid actually.

I now consider myself a recovering spoiler reader lol.  No more reading about how stories end before I read the actual pages.

1 hour ago, Q10fanatic said:

Unless you swore to follow Dalinar Kholin instead. Then do exactly as the Blackthorn does.

Haha, I just found this ironic that this is brought up in a thread discussing racism...  Whoops.

Be better than Blackthorn.  Do as he does and throw in social reform as well.

5 hours ago, Robot said:

I like to believe that a 5th order radiant with no restrictions to their power would be a mini shareholder.

Do you mean a minority shareholder?  I guess 5th order radiants might be rich, but not necessarily.

Needless to say, I would like to buy some stock in Honor as well.  I wonder what the stock price is (probably not as high after he crashed, but rising now that the powers are returning)?

I apologize for my nonsensical post.  Please feel free to ignore me and carry on with the discussion.

48 minutes ago, Greywatch said:

I find it telling that the anger of the darkeyes gets more of a "this is wrong!" reaction than Dalinar and Adolin and Shallan's thoughts and actions, as people in these privileged positions who thoughtlessly are classist in the books. But they have the privilege of being calm and reasonable about this subject, whereas Kaladin's anger is seen as hysterical and unreasonable.

 

I think the reason why Dalinar, Adolin, and Shallan aren't receiving as much attention is because it seems obvious where they lie on the racism spectrum.  Hard to defend them; thus they elicit less heated reaction.  Kaladin seems to be in the middle ground and bringing out more opinions.

The issue doesn't seem to be whether Kaladin has a right to be angry or not, but rather just the interpretation of the word 'racist'.

I don't know which side it right, both have brought up good arguments.  I do think Kaladin loathing all Lighteyes is bad, but as Greywatch is pointing out, because of his status as a darkeye can't really inflict any injustice upon them does it really amount to racism. Does it amount to Kaladin being classified as a rascist? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The easy answer is yes, in the case of the Skybreakers and Nale. I don’t know if you are counting them, but they have been pretty secret for thousands of years.

If you are referring to the likes of Sons of Honor or Ghostbloods, I don’t know but would suspect no.

1 minute ago, Pathfinder said:

No problemo. Just to make sure I have the right scene, is the line this?

 

"Inside the room, a mess of guards, servants, and members of Bridge Four stood around, looking confused or embarressed. Leyten was there - he'd been on duty with the King's Guard - as was Moash."

Yep, that's it.  Same thing just Natam in place of Leyten.

1 hour ago, Gilphon said:

He appears to have been sincere in his desire to bring back the Heralds. Odium had just been whispered in his ear for a while, (probably by reaching through Nergaoul) in order to influence and manipulate him. And then at some point in OB, Odium started visiting him more openly, and told him about how the Sons of Honor's plan couldn't possibly work; that they couldn't bring back the Heralds because the Heralds had never left; that the Heralds had abandoned humanity. 

Though the fact that we never really see what's going on inside Amaram's head and it's not entirely clear why he decided to join Odium is probably the biggest problem with OB's climax.

 

I suppose this makes sense to me and is probably why I am so confused and unsatisfied.  It just seemed like Amaram was full in on the Sons of Honor thing, which I assumed meant wanting Heralds, which assumed meant contra Odium.  Even though I knew he had no honor, I felt he was really into the Sons of Honor mission.

1 hour ago, Pathfinder said:

For myself, a lot of Amaram's actions make more sense when viewed in the below WoB:

 

Coachdorax

Did you write Amaram as an opposite of Dalinar or was he simply a bad guy meant to spur Kaladin?

Brandon Sanderson

I meant Amaram to be the representation of the corrupt side of the Alethi. Meaning they are all talk and very little heart. Very little of what they say, to the worst of the Alethi, gets to who they really are. They would rather be known as someone honorable than be actually honorable. And this I consider a major problem with their society, and I needed somebody to represent this. Part of it is, to represent a contrast to Kaladin’s ideals. This belief that lighteyes were these paragons of virtue. But I also needed somebody, you may say an opposite to Dalinar. In a way, he is an opposite to Dalinar, but more he just represents Alethi society. And I did want it to be that he wasn’t just all the way corrupt. When he makes his decision in Book One in the flashbacks, he is making a decision. There is a moment where he is considering. By the time you are seeing him in later books, that decision has taken him down a path that leaves him very far from any sort of redemption. But it was a choice. And he wasn’t just corrupt from the get go. But yeah, he represents what I feel would be bad about Alethi society. A kind of honor society that is more about looking honorable than being.

YouTube Livestream 2 (Jan. 20, 2020)

Hm, I had listened to this but don't remember this part.  I'll need to find it and listen.  Interesting this is.

Also, new to the whole copying quote things.  Was going to reply to the bit about Natam, but it seems to not want me to quote it again without double posting.

Anyways, about Natam, my book must be an old version because it does indeed mention Natam a second time in the scene, not Leyten.  I knew this was probably the obvious answer, that this has been corrected in the books. 

It's a shame though.  I really liked the dragon theory lol.

29 minutes ago, Pathfinder said:

Interesting way of putting it. Honestly I am having trouble deciding myself. On one had having two powers to play with sounds better, but on the other, being able to make one power basically "normal" as in can use so often it becomes fully part of my life is also appealing. 

I guess it would depend on how you live your life.  I think I made my choice assuming I'd be fighting other people with it, but that's not necessarily the case.  In everyday life, voidbringer light might be more useful actually.  But if you are competing directly with the two powers, probably radiant.  Also, assuming this is on Roshar, I feel stormlight would get renewed often enough that I'd have enough.  Just gotta make sure I have a good job I guess.

Guess I'd rather have the power with the more upside and higher ceiling.  Kind of like I'd rather have the best team in the playoffs rather than a consistent team that plays great during the regular season but doesn't have an extra gear in the more important games.

As I sit relaxing at my private spot on my warm ocean reflecting on Words of Radiance, I became troubled about a couple of things I have read.  These things are so troubling they will not let me sleep.  I have some time now, as I have asked my 7th and 8th sons to keep anybody from bothering me.  I am hoping to get some good answers from you airsick lowlanders.

First, there is something off about that cremling, Amaram.  Something that I am missing.  I understand that through Words of Radiance, we mostly dislike him due to the atrocities committed against Kaladin.  However, to most other Alethis, he appears very honorable.  Everybody thinks he is very honorable except Kaladin, Jasnah, and Sadeas (it takes a cremling to know a cremling).  But I don't understand his actions.  Throughout WofR, he tries to get Dalinar to reconcile with Sadeas.  Unite to become stronger.  He is a Son of Honor (HAHAHA, very funny this group name) and seeks to return the Heralds to restore the Vorin religion to dominance.  As Dalinar is about to begin his expedition to the center, he is surprised by not only Sebarials arrival, but Aladars as well.  In both cases, Amaram tries to tell Dalinar to send them away; he can conquer the Parshendi by himself and those two shouldn't be trusted.

Why?  Why doesn't Amaram want Dalinar to have more support?  Does he really want Dalinar to perish?  It doesn't seem so.  His internal thoughts seem to regard Dalinar as an important friend and ally.  At the end of the book as he dictates his letter to Restares he thinks of the great cost of losing Dalinar as an ally, but glories in the success of the expedition and that the Heralds will soon return.

It is then revealed at the end of Oathbringer, that Amaram has been in communication with Odium.  I'm a little fuzzy on OB, but I thought it indicated Amaram had been in communication with Odium for a good bit.  So was Amaram's goal ever really about bringing the Heralds back?  Or did he really want Odium in power?  Or did he just pivot and felt Vorinism could be stronger under Odium than it was before the Everstorm?

Next question is in regards to important bridgeman, Natam.  In particular, the scene of the first failed assassination attempt against Elhokar.  The one where Moash used Grave's shardblade to cut the railing on the balcony.  At the end of chapter 22, Kaladin is back at Bridge 4 barracks eating stew when Natam stumbles into the camp, flush from running from the palace, to alert Kaladin of the assassination attempt.  Beginning of chapter 23, Kaladin is very tired after running from the camp to the palace.  He is leaning on the door.  He sees all the lighteyes are safe.  He looks around at who else is there.  Some embarrassed and confused Bridge 4 members.  Among them, Natam and Moash.

So question is, how did Natam get back to the palace so fast?  I'm assuming Kaladin ran super fast using stormlight to enhance.  Maybe Natam kept up and when Kaladin saw him he was really on the floor gasping for breath, cramps all over.  Wanting to protect a fellow bridge 4 member, Kaladin kept that out of his thoughts so the readers wouldn't think little of him.  Or maybe Natam is an Elsecaller! And transported there!  Alas, he has Windrunner abilities.  Since he can't be an Elsecaller, he must obviously then just be a dragon in disguise.  Natam has a long face; dragons more than likely have long faces too.  Everybody in the room knows Natam is a dragon, but don't say anything.  They want the readers to be in suspense throughout WofR, and revealing they new about the allied dragon in their midst would deaden the sense of suspense throughout the book.

Sorry for some of these bad theories.  But my questions remain.

All this writing and thinking has made me hungry.  Where is first son with snack?

This has been a very interesting thread that has really pointed me to some internal reflection.  I of course enjoy Brandon's books and I haven't had the same frustrations as the OP due to me being me and him being him.  Reading through what has been said, I can understand the points of readers wanting more representation.

However, I trust Brandon will do what he feels best for his books.  I also trust him to put his best effort into writing gay characters, which based on the wobs shared earlier in this post, he intends to do.  I can understand him wanting to get it right, as there are people in real life that can relate and would want to be represented in a fair, accurate way.  I remember a thread here after Oathbringer was released and somebody was super upset because Brandon didn't write Teft's drug addiction (another area Brandon doesn't have experience with) accurately enough.  So with Brandon being unfamiliar with such a sensitive topic, I would trust him when he says he needs to take his time to make it real.

Just my two cents. 

As a long time lurker, 22 time poster, I enjoy the anonymity of upvotes 

Edit:  Corrected amount of posts I've made lol

@Jofwu The google doc that comes up in the Oathbringer version above indicates that it is an old version.  Is there a current or newer version of the timeline available?  

Thanks @RShara

Are there any timelines for the whole Stormlight Archive somewhere that are up to date?  I found a Words of Radiance timeline here on Coppermind (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Words_of_Radiance/Timeline), but couldn't find one for tWoK or O.  Are there any out there readily available?

13 minutes ago, Chalke219 said:

I do find it strange the amount of hate Shallan gets, i can see the problem people have in that she's not particularly action packed but she's such a fascinating character! 

This is kind of my problem.  I know that there are some interesting things in the Shallan viewpoints, but I just find myself craving the awesome action sequences that I feel I rush Shallan too much and miss details. 

Another reason perhaps, is that her family history and current situation is so sad I just don't want to go on that ride.  But if I read all of her viewpoints consecutively like I guess I'm planning maybe it will be worse.

I've just started a reread of Words of Radiance and looking for some pros/cons at different reading styles.  I've probably read WofR about 5 times already, and each time I always read the chapters in numerical order.  I'm not sure I want to do that this time because I typically find Shallan chapters boring and rushing through them.  I've been debating if I should just skip the Shallan chapters, and then go back and read them on their own once I finish with the Kaladin/Dalinar storyline (understanding of course that they will be mixing a lot more at the end).

Has anybody done readings this way and found it more enjoyable?  Will I become more dumb reading a book out of order?  How big of a sin is this? Help!

On 2/1/2020 at 9:13 PM, Karger said:

Remember she supposedly has one of the largest networks.

I always remember reading this, but have struggled to see how Ialai benefited from this during my readings.  Makes me wonder what all of her spies were doing.  

My memory is bad and need to do a reread again, but if I recall she doesn't treat Mraize like he's somebody important, and Mraize tells Shallan that he's just there to keep an eye on them but that Ialai isn't really connected to the Ghostbloods, which in my opinion would have boosted the reputation points of her spy network.

Well, I do love Kaladin and really wouldn't mind seeing him take this role (and thus seeing the necessary growth in him that this theory would entail), but I just don't get this from reading about him.  I do believe he is a good leader, as asmodeus pointed out in his examples, but I see those on the smaller scale, leading close knit groups rather than large factions of people.  I see Kaladin as becoming a legendary hero and fighter rather than King of Roshar.

No Jasnah?  tsk tsk.  She's probably 2nd.  I'd consider 6th of the dusk witty too.

Is the thing that Kaladin did with the windspren blocking the highstorm the same thing?

I just read the chapter (Shash 39, I forget the chapter #) in OB where Kaladin takes Dalinar, Navani & company back to the warcamps where Dalinar investigates what happened with the 'madman' Taln.  At the beginning of the chapter when they arrive at the war camp, Kaladin lashes them downward so they slowly drift down and they eventually land.  It wasn't mentioned in the book, so my quick thought was, did the lashing automatically go away when they touched ground?  Or can Kaladin automatically instruct when the lashing will end when he touches them.  Otherwise, even though they touch ground, the lashing should still be pulling them that way, almost pushing them against the ground. 

That could be explained away by saying the lashing wasn't very strong since they drifted slowly and then the stormlight ran out.  But then I kept thinking, could Kaladin lash people very strongly downward and smash them against the ground?  We've read instances where people are lashed upwards, specifically I'm thinking of when Szeth lashes Roion and Dalinar into the sky so that they are so high when the stormlight expires that they fall to their deaths.  But just as Kalidan lashed himself downward so hard in the duel in WoR to break the shardplate (and his legs), he could probably smash people against the ground very hard.  Probably just costs more stormlight, which is why we haven't seen it.

Just my musings.